Slotting Holds?
I think the optimun for PvP would be 2 acc, 2 hold, 2 recharge.
I don't know how much end your hold uses but I know my char doesn't use much at all, so maybe that end reduction might be better off elsewhere?
I currently have my char slotted, 2 acc, 3 hold and 2 recharge which is enough to stack 4 holds at the same time which breaks a tanks and khelds dwarf inherent mezz protection. With hasten and vanguard, I can break through GA and rooted.
The reason I would say that 2 hold and 2 recharge is that if you incrase one of those to 3, you do lose about 5% I think on the SO. I'm sure someone here will be able to number crunch and work out the best balance, but I like my holds to rechage quite fast in case one misses.
@Sweet Chilli
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I currently have my char slotted, 2 acc, 3 hold and 2 recharge which is enough to stack 4 holds at the same time which breaks a tanks and khelds dwarf inherent mezz protection.
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Wow? How did you get 7 slots on your hold?
I prefer 3 holds, 2 accs and 1 rechg. Freeze ray uses a bit more endurance than Ice Bolt, thus an endredux there isn't that good idea IMO.
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I currently have my char slotted, 2 acc, 3 hold and 2 recharge which is enough to stack 4 holds at the same time which breaks a tanks and khelds dwarf inherent mezz protection.
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Wow? How did you get 7 slots on your hold?
I prefer 3 holds, 2 accs and 1 rechg. Freeze ray uses a bit more endurance than Ice Bolt, thus an endredux there isn't that good idea IMO.
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Technically, this is how my char is slotted.
1 Accuracy, 1 Endoplasm Exposure, 1 hold duration, 1 hold duration, 1 recharge, 1 recharge.
Which totals 2 acc, 3 hold, 2 recharge.
@Sweet Chilli
In PvP it's better to be able to stack holds than have one hold last longer. It makes it easier to break through someone's mez protection.
Having the holds last longer helps you to stack them though.
@Sweet Chilli
Only if they're held though, and you got more chance of that if you spam it
I gues what it comes down to is this.
Low duration, high recharge = bad?
high duration, low recharge = bad?
medium duration, medium recharge = good?
I'm not sure exactly how the numbers work out, i'm sure the U.S. forums will have this answered somewhere, but my search fu is set to lazy at the moment.
@Sweet Chilli
It's not really clearcut and I've been wondering about that myself sometimes. Recharges sound really good for stacking until you start thinking about the way recharge enhancements work. Hold enhancements are additive so you get around 33% of the base duration more with each enhancement until ED kicks in. Recharge however is multiplicative, so the first recharge offers you way more benefit than the second and the third. I think I would personally go with 2/2/2 slotting for a corruptor hold, or even 2acc/3hold/1 recharge with Hasten.
I think hold duration is a waste of time in pvp tbh. Reason? well all you have to do is pop a break free and your done. Staking holds is more important, and therefore recharge comes into play.
Freeze ray? 3acc 2rch 1hold
Well depend what you want to do , but its definetly beter to have 2 recharge 2 hold , then 3 hold duration and no recharge .
But for PvP its definetly beter just 1 hold 3 recharge , just to spam the holds .
For 2 purpose , 1 detoggling people mezz protection(beter yet holding them automatically means everything detoggled) , 2 to counter break frees.
The longer duration doesn´t serve a purpose in both those cases , while the recharge does .
A third recharge reduction shaves off just a fraction of a second from the recharge. The second one might be worth it, IMHO a third is not.
Do people on these boards actually know how hold stacking works?
The ammount you can stack depends on the first holds duration. The real idea of holds stacking is to either break a large mezz protection or make the other person use 2 bf's in prder to wear their bf supply down as fast as possible.
I think you can get the same mezz from going high duration, low recharge as low duration, high recharge.
However, the high duration, low recharge has one obvious advantage over the other one.
Can some intelligent person guess what it is....?
@Sweet Chilli
Lets introduce some numbers shall we:
All enhancements are +0 SO's unless otherwise stated.
Freeze Ray: 2 Accuracy, 3 Hold duration and 1 Recharge.
Recharge: 7.5 Seconds.
Duration: 15.59 Seconds.
Able to stack the hold 2.079 times.
Freeze Ray: 2 Accuracy, 1 Hold Duration and 3 Recharge.
Recharge: 5.13 Seconds
Duration: 10.66 Seconds
Able to stack 2.078 times.
Freeze Ray: 2 Accuracy, 2 Hold Duration and 2 Recharge:
Recharge: 6.00 Seconds
Duration: 13.33 Seconds
Able to stack 2.22 times.
Therfore optimum slotting would be 2/2/2.
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However, the high duration, low recharge has one obvious advantage over the other one.
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That advantage being, if you do break through their mez protection, you hold them for longer?
Theres also an advantage for short duration and high recharge. Can you, being intelligent, guess what that is?
No. You are unlikely to break through if you cannot spam them fast enough. The advange is that the end cost is less.
There are 2 advantages to a fast recharge rather than a long hold.
1. Is that if you want to hold more than 1 opponent (or a pet as well as the player). Especially if they have low mag resistance and you just need the pet held for a few seconds while you kill the MM/Controller.
2. Also, helps to hold more often and not for as long if the other player has many toggles to activate.
Its better to hold that player for a short time-frequently, than to hold him for a long time-on just a few occassions.
@Sweet Chilli
For controllers, 2 accuracy 1 hold 3 recharge, so you can spam the hold as fast as you can and break mes protection and achieve containment status. Faster you spam holds= faster you burn break frees.
For a corrupter you don't have to 6 slot your hold, you don't need to rely on it as much as you don't get any containment bonus, and your already */cold and so can annhilate any sort of recharge, and render them completely useless and so is much better, so freeze ray in your case is optional. Personally i'd just slot it 2 acc 1 recharge.
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Do people on these boards actually know how hold stacking works?
The ammount you can stack depends on the first holds duration. The real idea of holds stacking is to either break a large mezz protection or make the other person use 2 bf's in prder to wear their bf supply down as fast as possible.
I think you can get the same mezz from going high duration, low recharge as low duration, high recharge.
However, the high duration, low recharge has one obvious advantage over the other one.
Can some intelligent person guess what it is....?
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Loving the way this was edited after Sgt Furnace brought in the numbers
No, I edited it before I read his reply. I usually do as I find I need to dumb down my answers somewhat.
And...if you look at the editing time of 01:39pm on Friday compared to 03:48pm on Friday.
And you say my post was edited afterwards? Since when is 01:39pm AFTER 03:48pm???
@Sweet Chilli
im impressed that there was only 1 post that has been based on the numbers
for ice blast.. go with sgt's stats.. but unless ur planning on teaming with Kinetics, why use the 2/2/2, as i would say 2/1/3 is better? even tho u can stack it 0.15 more, it wont matter, since it wont increase the Mag. faster recharge is better, and tbh i would prolly have either 3 acc, 3 recharges (i dont like to miss) or 2 acc, 1 end red, 3 recharges (since u need end) here is why, explained with facts:
1 hold = Mag 3
scrapper protection (in general) = Mag 7
squishie protection (in general) = Mag 2 (many have acro in PvP)
1 hold is enough to hold squishies, 2 holds isnt enough to hold melee-ATs, so why bother stacking ur hold for 2.2? dont bother stacking it at all. Duration in this case serves for one reason only.. target will be held for longer time, if it has no BFs.
For Controllers and Dominators (whos holds has, unlike corrs/blasters, longer duration than recharge) u should think about why and who u want to hold. As i mentioned in a previous thread, some sets wont be able to stack 3 holds, and some can, and if u dont plan on penetrating mez-protections, recharge is better, but if u wanna hold Melee as well, go for duration.. in the end it comes down to what tactic and vision u are going for.
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For Controllers and Dominators (whos holds has, unlike corrs/blasters, longer duration than recharge) u should think about why and who u want to hold. As i mentioned in a previous thread, some sets wont be able to stack 3 holds, and some can, and if u dont plan on penetrating mez-protections, recharge is better, but if u wanna hold Melee as well, go for duration.. in the end it comes down to what tactic and vision u are going for.
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Death, you are repeating this same error - certainly for all Dominator sets the ST Holds have the same duration and recharge ie. 8 second recharge, 12 second duration base.
I agree. Remember folks....everyone with a tray of BF's is a melee in effect - so you have to stack on everyone.
Stacking is key in fights. You get them to run out of bf's quicker whether they are a blaster or a GA tank.
@Sweet Chilli
I think people need to play PVE more and test how hold nowadays work .
Cause most of the argument about MAG is based on pre i6 and especially hold durations.
For example go into a group of greendragon man , to see the stacking effect of holds and how it detoggles you .
Its not the first hold duration that counts !! its the number of holds you are affected with .
Another example is how hold now works on bosses , its no longer the duration of the hold , but the duration where the holds overlaps .
With all due respect, the hold duration IS the vital number on how many holds you can get to overlap. No point having them recharge every 3 secs if they are just lasting 2.5 secs...
And please look at Sgt. figures again. The first one with 3 hold duration, not only held longer - but it was more stackable.
Of course the best was 2/2/2.....so why are you thinking otherwise and is it US that should go back and look at how holds work in PvE or you?
@Sweet Chilli
Well if you think thats the way it works , fine for you PvP hold works different cause there is a immunity to it , but in PVP , the detoggling is more important then a duration .
In PVE the overlapsing of the hold instead of the old stacking hold duration is the factor that most people forgot , even US didn´t do a extensive research about it .
You can simply test your theorie out in PVP arena will notice before the immunity kicks in , that the first hold duration doesn´t matter that much , especially compared to overlapping holds .
Duration is not that meaning full to detoggle a tanker or scrapper , since the recharge is much more meaningfull the faster you get the mezz protection toggle down , the faster the hold affects fully , the faster you can switch to other mezz state powers , when the hold immunity kicks in .
In PVE situation its much more tricky , cause you need to time both your hold duration if you are lucky to have two holds .
Elite bosses are the best comparison between recharge holds or duration holds , one has a bigger impact then other .
now as in your theorie of hold lasting 2.5 seconds versus 3 seconds recharge. (wonders what hold last 2.5 seconds beside the point)
One can easily spin that around when facing a AV when the triangle thing happens , what use is having a duration thats wiped totally clean , when people with recharge can stack it up again faster to get a semi lock before another wipe .
And yes tested the theorie in practise ,with recharge can achieve a semi lock on a AV before the triangle comes , near perma hold a EB with one hold , while with duration thats not possible before status mezz resets.
So thats the basis of my theorie .
(do remember hamidon works different from other AV so dont take recharge to there , its still duration that counts)
Been meaning to ask this for a while.
I have a single hold on my ice corruptor and have it slotted with 2 ACC, 3 Hold and 1 end reduc(my build chews end so need it).
Now, looking at some builds, they seem to ignore the hold's and go for recharge in it's place. Can someone comment on how they would slot freeze ray and why?
Recharge on it is quite speedy but there is a delay and my slotting of it has been troubling me as i'm not sure if I should be putting recharges in place of the holds.