Attempt to fix perception(from US boards)
By
Ange_de_moquerie,
Posted on: 2006-05-31 22:50 in Stalkers
Here Here! Give that man a cookie! I'm well for that idea, though I'm gonna say some WILL disagree, and boo to them. Stalkers that can be seen at infinite distance? Come on, it defeats the purpose entirely.
I play a Stalker yes, but I do look at it from other ATs points of view. So trollers can be one-shotted, big deal. Do you get any penalty? Do you lose rep or bounty? No, you don't.
Can we whine if we do?
/Start of my rant
But anyways it's allways nice and allmost fun to get one second battle...
Acttualy it ain't even a battle and not sure if it takes even the second...
But other than that... yay buff stalkers to kindom come... I won't see em in PvE anyways...
Then again I know for a fact that the status wall of trollers ain't fun neater... but atleats you got break frees eh... and some even have nice protective powers agains the status effects... so maybe you get lucky next time when you splat a troller that can't do nothing to you... and /End off my rant...
Leave the space for another troller that says we are so dangerous in pvp... as some might be... I know I ain't...
What ever...
Just get it...
Over with all ready...
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This is from Quiet_Ninja on the US stalker forum:
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Duly noted, so I'll mock _him_ then.
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stalkers are the only AT's that have 4 powers in each set that are required to take, which makes our builds very tight.
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<sarcasm>What, he needs to take a whole 4 powers (or 8, depending on how you read the "in each set" part) to win in PvP? Whoa. That's sooo unfair. Oh, the injustice. He obviously _deserves_ to need just 1 power, a big button that says "Win now!", preferrably at level 1.</sarcasm>
I routinely play characters that need more than 4 powers from the primaries and secondaries. Some from the pools too.
Fire tanks and knockback protection, anyone? Yeah, you even have a pool pre-selected for you to just do your job. (Getting knocked back out of aggro range of the whole group is a way to team-wipe.)
SR Scrappers? You need at least 6 secondaries just to have protection from all 3 attack types. (Melee, ranged _and_ AOE.) And even then Lts and Bosses hit you regularly. Add 2 powers from Medicine which are all but mandatory, CJ is all but pre-selected too (it makes a huge difference for a SR), 3 powers to get Stamina, and if that wasn't already sucking all your power picks and endurance, 2 powers to get Tactics too if you want to PvP. Grand total? 14 so far, and we haven't even taken any attacks yet.
Want to talk PvP? Being seen with Tactics is too much for him? Well, that's two powers just to get Tactics, plus Stamina to keep it running, so a total of _5_ that someone is required to take. And that's not even counting that they need defenses or some kind of attack to fight thereafter.
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WE ARE THE STALKERS, nobody else should be hunting other players thats our job
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Well, gee, he should be the only one who has a free ticket to kill everyone and never risk retaliation. Exactly where is the challenge or balance than? Oh, wait, lemme guess, he doesn't want balance or challenge, he just wants to grief with impunity.
Sorry to rain on that parrade, but Stalker is just another AT. Nowhere in its description does it say that it's god-mode for griefers. _Noone_ is some privileged caste supposed to be the only one hunting other people with no risks. And _noone_ is supposed to have an auto-win with no personal skill involved. A Stalker is just another player, and just another AT. No other AT gets an auto-win, so Stalkers don't either.
Learn to use the terrain and LOS. Don't approach your target from the front and expect the game to give you an automatic win. Learn to use the terrain and come from the back. Most people aren't zoomed out to kingdom come all the time, so they can't see you there.
But you know what disturbs me more there? If one can't take the heat of being occasionally hunted, how _can_ one demand that everyone else is there just to be hunted with impunity? Mind boggles.
There's a medical name for the kind of personality who sees other people as just unimportant NPCs, there just to be used, hunted, whatever, for his personal enjoyment, and is able to rationalize that to heck and back with a straight face. It's called the Antisocial Personality Disorder, a.k.a., Sociopathy. Look it up some day. But even there most are subtle enough not to tell you outright, "you're the worthless peon that's here to be hunted, I'm the one supposed to be the one hunting you with impunity."
So, seriously, I don't know if games can turn a non-psychopath into a psychopath, but I'd worry if I started showing those symptoms. I know that's a post copied from someone else, but if at any point you find yourself thinking that way, if you find yourself able to rationalize that other players are there just to be the hunted ones... I'd say it's time to take a break, look in the mirror and ask yourself in all seriousness if that's what you want to become.
And incidentally there you have the last part of the answer to your earlier question: why I don't like PvP in an RPG setting. Half of it I've already said: because I like the competition to be about personal skill than artifficial stats and bonuses. The other half is that, for all it's being an all-out free-for-all war, Unreal Tournament actually attracts a _lot_ less psychopaths than MMO PvP does. When you have people able to hide behind their character's artifficial numbers, I don't know, maybe half the people are still nice and normal, but the other half exhibits sociopathic behaviour to a _disturbing_ degree. It's not the kind of people I find fun to be with, regardless of whether they're friend or foe.
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the only AT that should be able to stalkstalkers, is another stalker!
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So, where would the balance in Hero V Villain PvP zones come from. You're essentially saying stalkers should be able to walk all over them without any risk of detection until they decide too attack? Too one sided.
I don't like the fact that playing against stalkers is an 'all or nothing' approach, if you have the +PER to see them, they're easy pickings, if you don't there's almost nothing you can do to combat them.
Personally, I would like to see a more 'random' approach to spotting hidden/stealth/invised characters. As I understand it, the difference between a players stealth rating and the oppositions perception gives a kind of 'distance to be seen' rating. This is why stealthed characters can be seen up close but disappear when they move away.
The biggest problem playing as or against a stalker is you can either see them, or you can't, depending on your perception against their stealth rating. This means a stalker can either kill you with impunity or you can completely disable his main AT strength, leading to frustration on both sides.
What frustrates people is that there is nothing they can really do about this so some sort of 'luck' should be factored in, in exactly the same way as 'luck' is used when seeing if you hit or miss.
For me, this rigid method is too easy to counter and needs to be more flexible. What I would like to see is a 95% cap on ALL stealth powers and some sort of random check carried out every few seconds that results in a character being viewable for a limited time before the check is made again.
So the figures would look something like this
No stealth powers at all - 0% stealth
Super Speed - 15% stealth
Stealth, arctic fog, etc - 30% stealth
Grant Invisibility - 65%
Invisibility - 70% stealth
Superior Invisibility/Hide - 75% stealth
Random Stealth Bonus(RSB) - 0-20%
The check could then be made every 5 seconds or so to see what the RSB is for the next 'cycle' and combined with your stealth bonus from powers to give you a 'Stealth Rating' for the next cycle. for example:
Stalker with hide gets a 16 RSB and that goes on his Hide to give him a 'Stealth Rating' of 91 for that cycle. That then means ANYONE, regardless of their perception, has an 8% chance of seeing the stalker for the next 5 seconds.
Those with perception bonuses, would have a slightly higher chance so a table of bonuses for those would have to be drawn up.
Tactics - 10%
Small Yellow Insp - 3%
Medium Yellow Insp - 5%
Large Yellow Insp - 8%
So, on the above example, somone running tactics would have an 18% chance of seeing the stalker.
What this means is that with hide, a stalker would have to get the full 20 RSB to reach the cap but by taking stealth, the RSB will be meaningless as you'll be at it anyway.
Obviously, there are flaws in this. Even someone without +PER will see a stalker at the cap once every 20 cycles (one minute 40 seconds), meaning if you have 2 toons in the area, one of them will 'see' the stalker every 50 seconds, if there are 4, one will spot him every 25 seconds and so on. In a busy zone that will cause problems, especially if tactics is in play.
I don't see that as a flaw in the idea, it just means a lot of datamining and testing would be needed to get the figures right so it works.
Playing a stalker against someone with tactics you just avoid them if possible as they can see you and there's nothing you can do. Playing someone who can't see a stalker is just frustrating as, again, there is nothing you can do.
Introducing some sort of randomness is definitely the way forward IMO becuase:
- It still gives stalkers and other invised characters a big advantage
- It makes characters without perception feel they actually have a chance to stop getting AS'd, albeit a slim one
- It gives stalkers a chance to still use stealth against high perception characters
Now, before people tear the idea apart at the seams, it's JUST AN IDEA! I'm not anumber cruncher, I don't have the game mechanics memorised and this is just a rough idea to give an example of a possible solution. What I'm trying to illustrate is that ALL characters should have a small chance to see stalkers and all stalkers should have a chance to remain invisible against high perception toons.
What I would like to see is a few of the more technical and imaginative people out there coming up with a better method of using stealth/perception so, like accuracy, it's a bit more random.
Which means stalkers can reach the stealth cap and stay there indefinitly with there lvl 1 hide power. Oh no wait, one +perception power reveals them at an astounding 10ft!! Not much fun to play against, and probably too easy to play as well. To be fair, i like the idea of less tight builds, but i suspect a tight build is a side effect of making the stealth cap difficult to reach in the 1st place.
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the only AT that should be able to stalkstalkers, is another stalker!
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Hehe, cant agree with that but i'd be interested in how a stalker would go about this if the idea you posted was implemented. Stalkers perception isnt much to get excited about.
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Fiend Space: 211464
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stalkers are the only AT's that have 4 powers in each set that are required to take, which makes our builds very tight.
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<sarcasm>What, he needs to take a whole 4 powers (or 8, depending on how you read the "in each set" part) to win in PvP? Whoa. That's sooo unfair. Oh, the injustice. He obviously _deserves_ to need just 1 power, a big button that says "Win now!", preferrably at level 1.</sarcasm>
I routinely play characters that need more than 4 powers from the primaries and secondaries. Some from the pools too.
Fire tanks and knockback protection, anyone? Yeah, you even have a pool pre-selected for you to just do your job. (Getting knocked back out of aggro range of the whole group is a way to team-wipe.)
SR Scrappers? You need at least 6 secondaries just to have protection from all 3 attack types. (Melee, ranged _and_ AOE.) And even then Lts and Bosses hit you regularly. Add 2 powers from Medicine which are all but mandatory, CJ is all but pre-selected too (it makes a huge difference for a SR), 3 powers to get Stamina...
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a blaster need 3 power to kill you "ami+BU+focalisation".
et don't have to mind about not being knocked out of hide, LoS breaking and can do that in one super speed walk or super jump just by crossing you.
the 4 power we need are not for "winning", they are only to ply play the AT like it was a level 1 (stay in hide to have good damage and cause life is tiny and we have obligation to go at melee range so we must choose or fight)
a scrapper don't need the sr shield to be a scrapper. i mean you take t cause they protect you and make you diffculte to hit.and save the fact we eat 7 acc inspirations your shield aren't nullifiated by any other power (no that toggle dropping gonna be lower it's even more true).
like the fire tank can live wihtout knockback protection,annoying yes but supressing that is more a comfort question than a condition to survive.
the thing is that on the 4 powers stalker need 3 are less and less effective in PvP.
hide --> we are spotted at 1000 miles and our stealth cap don't allow us to win your + percep cap. and by the way being stealthy or not (i mean choosing to be a hit and run or a scrappeur) is not a choice given to us. i mean if we had the choice between a shield and hide as first power ko being saw would not matter and the fact that being stealthy would demand a lot of power would be normal as it would be a particular build and not the way the AT fonction.
placate--> this powezr that can be compared to a 10 def or an interruptible weaker BU don't seem to be as effectiv has it was.
pop a yellow while placated and it's ok.(i do't talk of being hidden here only the untagetable component this power has) so using it for get ride of a foe for 10 sec is no more as automatic as it was and us it as a BU is versatil cause if you get hit before you can it the bonus vanish.
AS--> yes it is powerfull. but a lot of people forget that in order to fonction (assuming you don't miss) AS need
1/ being steathed
2/ 4sec while it can be interrupted and you are doing nothing and are rooted.
3/that the LoS is not broken
moreover it is a power that become more than useless if you want to scrapp (yes all don't run while they are spotted or engaged in a multi fight) or just can't go to hide and have the 3 condition completed.
other at don't need (exept for the snipe of blaster/corr but it saffer cause you are far far away and don't have the "being hide" as a requirement) to matter of 3 think to hit with they big attack
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WE ARE THE STALKERS, nobody else should be hunting other players thats our job
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i agree but not sure it is well formulated.
for me it mean that what is the interest to have so much condition to be effective, to have low hp and tight build if we are as furtif as a blaster/rava/cor/domi that would just have picked stealth of the concilement pool?
to finish
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Want to talk PvP? Being seen with Tactics is too much for him? Well, that's two powers just to get Tactics, plus Stamina to keep it running, so a total of _5_ that someone is required to take. And that's not even counting that they need defenses or some kind of attack to fight thereafter.
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so first of all tactic eat as stamina as stealth if i recall properly.
secondly only a tiny part of AT can be effective without stamina so don't tell me you take it only for tactic.
by the way yes, you took a lot of power, and? that's normal you build a specialized characters: a stalker hunter. (btw no other AT havce to worry about that. i mean stlaker hunter are very good at what they do. find a tank hunter that is as efficent for exemple.)
and if you are smart you don't have to take tactic, an ir google, a CM buff or just a device blaster and yippi you see stalker.
what you don't understand is that for a stalker being stealthy is not a special build, it's just normal if not vital not like being a stalker hunter.
I don't have a problem with stalkers being invisible, i've had to come to terms that on some of my toons there is NO protection from AS (without outside buffs). If you have no inherant +per power you can get tactics, but most stalkers will have stealth too for PvP, so i don't tend to bother, it's just a fact to live with. Even on my SR scrapper with my emp friend giving me CM, if someone hits the stalker with grant invis, still no defence. I could go on and on, more stealth>more perception>even more stealth etc.....*bored*.
I do however have a bit of a problem with placate, which i find terribly annoying. So the stalker has managed to sneak up on me undetected, ASed me to within an inch of my life if it hits (more often than not) and then is able to hit his "you can't hit me back" button. Yes there are ways around it like using a PbAoE, but then thats not going to kill them on it's own, and thats time you need to pop a heal or green insp in order to survive the second attack. I can also accept this, it simply annoys me. If they get to take 99% of my HP in one hit then i think it's fair do's they should have to deal with at least one counter attack without impunity.
I would also like to see AS changed so that it cannot be buffed with red insps or forge etc. The one-hit kill capacity of AS was removed (so you can only go down to 1 hp isn't it?) to give a little balance, at least long enough to pop a green if your fast, so being able to override this with one red seems an oversight to me.
Anywho, rant over, i don't hate stalkers and i wont jump on the "nerf stalker!" bandwagon, but i really don't think they need any buffing. If anything we need to buff the powersets that currently have no hope in PvP like TA and the like (thats not a snub to TA, it just simply underperforms in comparison).
I miss him in the weeping of the rain;
I want him at the shrinking of the tide;
The old snows melt from every mountain-side,
And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane;
But last year's bitter loving must remain
~Edna St. Vincent Millay
In all MMOs people will whine about the stealthers, you should be glad stalkers aren't like rogues in WoW, they could kill tanks with ease if they were(and good). But the reason I think this idea is good is because you only need ONE +per power to get a warning of a stalker(perhaps having more could add distance to how far you see them like +10ft for each extra +per power, with each additional stealth power taking away 10ft from that but never dropping it below the limit).
Also it means stealth/invis will finally be useful for other ATs at least villain side, as current those powers are all but useless for anything other than a stalker many people have lots of +per.
Also I think the only reason people whine so much about AS is because you don't see it coming, I could go make an invis blapper and get much the same result( I'm leveling one to try it out), blappers and scrappers can often 2/3 shot villains who are all squishy except for brutes(in hp terms) on a regular basis.
So please no more whining about stalkers THIS IS NOT A POST FOR YOU TO WHINE IN. It is a post for you to help improve upon the idea and perhaps present new ones. (jessh go play WoW against rogues, you can't see them ever without being either a human or having buffs from 2 classes only).
Asking for balance does not amount to whining, and dismissing other peoples opinions as simple whining gives the impression of a lack of respect for others. People do tend to get overly upset about things involving PvP because it is a competative environment and therefor provokes strong emotional reactions, but the argument that it's worse in other games isn't particularly valid. We're playing THIS game, and we all want it to be as good as it can be.
Unfortunately PvP in CoX will NEVER be balanced as the game wasn't designed for it, but that doesn't mean changes shouldn't continue to occur to make the best out of what we have.
As i stated before i totally agree that not everyone and their dog should be able to see a stalker from a mile away, that would defeat the object. It is clear however that something needs to be done to properly balance this AT as simple numbers of concerns/complaints about this one AT show that something is not quite right.
Unfortunately this is what happens when you introduce into a primarily PvE game a new archetype that is essentially custom made for PvP superiority. I'm not saying "stalkers sux at PvE" or "only stalkers can compete in PvP" but they have a serious advantage right from the start in a PvP environment.
Balance is needed certainly, perhaps even by increasing stalkers stealth capabilities so it takes more to see them, but this would have to come at the expense of something else otherwise it will simply be a huge buff to an AT that alot of people think (rightly or wrongly) is already overpowered in PvP.
I miss him in the weeping of the rain;
I want him at the shrinking of the tide;
The old snows melt from every mountain-side,
And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane;
But last year's bitter loving must remain
~Edna St. Vincent Millay
Sorry if I seemed rude I was just being worried of it turning into a 'stalkers are overpowered nerf them thread', but thing with this is, it is just like stalkers and whoever is fighting them being at stealth and perception caps with only one power.
This would be incredibly helpful as it would free up powers for alot of builds, make concealment pool useful for all ATs, and would give everyone a chance to avoid being ASed and such. 10ft isn't much distance yes, but bar lag it's not that hard to react to or maybe I just have ridiculous reaction speeds.
by the way i'm not sure that it would be cool. i mean once again, if all AT can be as stealthy as a stalker why playing one?
personnaly city of ghost is not very appealing for me. let to the heros the advantage they have please... or give us the hero's one too
Well it could be changed, such as more percep powers increase your detection range, but I can see the worries with city of ghost, kins idea is perhaps better untill you run into team v team perhaps. Also it still wouldn't fix how binary perception is 
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In all MMOs people will whine about the stealthers
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Noone's whining yet, except you. You're the one whining that other people can hunt you just like you hunt them. OMG it's so unfair that taking a whole 4 powers doesn't automatically make you safe from everyone on a whole PvP map. Well, then don't go PvP, if you can't take what everyone else is taking there. It's that simple.
A PvP zone was never supposed to be the kind of place where just hitting one power makes you invisible and un-attackable by anything short of carpet bombing the whole area. You're vulnerable there, like everyone else. If that's too much for you, why are you there? There's a whole PvE game out there to play.
Want to make PvP less of a "being hunted all over the map by groups of 8 [censored]" case? Fair enough, we can talk that too. But then for everyone, not just for one AT. The Stalker is just another AT, nothing more. There was no "only you can hunt others, noone else can hunt you" description when you picked that AT.
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you should be glad stalkers aren't like rogues in WoW, they could kill tanks with ease if they were(and good).
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"You should be glad I'm not asking for something even more unbalanced" is a pretty poor argument. The idea to prove is in which way would improve COH for everyone, not in which ways it could be even worse.
Again, get this: you're just another AT, nothing more. You're not some royal blood caste that has a right to exploit others. You're not exempt from others doing unto you exactly what you do unto them. I.e., basically, "be glad that I'm not asking for even more advantages over you all" is entirely the wrong approach to "balancing" the game.
Balance means sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. It also can mean a rock-paper-scissors setup. You can kill some people, other people can kill you. You can hunt some people, other people can hunt you. One class having a right to win against everyone as long as they hit a "make me invincible" button isn't anywhere near balanced.
And if you compare it to WoW, I dare say you got WoW all wrong. Their Rogues are a far more complex and all around balanced class than any COH or COV class, Stalkers included. The rogues have their advantages, yes, but other classes have theirs. The COH Rogues rely on a helluva lot more than 4 powers to do their job, and each of them can be counteracted if the opponent plays right. And their rogues aren't a one-trick PvP pony either. It's an all around good mix of stealth and main damage dealer, PvP _and_ PvE prowess (Rogue may well be the most played PvE class), soloability and group value. (Although somewhat shafted by being one of too many Rogues when looking for a group.)
And more importantly, WoW's mechanics are a lot less simplistic and taken to extremes than COH's mechanics. A Rogue doesn't have or need a 6x damage boost on their Backstab, and half their powers and gameplay revolve around fighting pretty darn well while _visible_, not on placating and running away. Their Backstab is just an initial advantage, not something on which your very life and death depend.
In a way, a WoW Rogue is closer to a MA/SR Scrapper with Stealth than to a Stalker.
Compared to WoW's rogues, yeah, you got shafted. I feel for you. COH's Stalkers are a one-trick pony, and not even a well thought out one. But taking it to an even more ridiculous extreme isn't IMHO the way to fix it.
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Also I think the only reason people whine so much about AS is because you don't see it coming, I could go make an invis blapper and get much the same result( I'm leveling one to try it out), blappers and scrappers can often 2/3 shot villains who are all squishy except for brutes(in hp terms) on a regular basis.
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Again, noone's whining. If you can't take a debate, just don't start it.
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(jessh go play WoW against rogues, you can't see them ever without being either a human or having buffs from 2 classes only).
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Again, methinks you haven't played WoW much.
A) Seeing or not seeing them isn't the alpha and the omega. There are ways to counter one even if you took a backstab or a sap. As I've said, more than half the fight will happen after that.
B) Even there any Rogue worth his salt doesn't come from the front and expect to be guaranteed at -perception for everyone automatically. They too use the terrain and come from behind, if they want to survive.
C) They aren't all that impossible to detect, unless you're signifficantly lower level. (Though, yeah, ganking people 12 level lower _is_ a sort of a national sport there.) If you can tell me that Rogues are at an automatic -perception cap for everyone, I dare say you haven't actually played one.
Having a stalker myself and enjoying him more then I expected I kinda agree with the topic creator..but like people said..if there is no way against em how can it ever be fair?:P...
What annoys me more are that people all waste their buids to hunt stalkers..act cocky when they get 1.(z0mFg I pWn3d t3H st4lker)..but then out of suddenly...''oH n03s..a n0n st4lker..lets take a run for it'':O.. since '''t3h other At's ar3 str0ng3r''...(if the villains don't run away themself that is:P)
anyway its still rock sizzor paper..and since there aren't TO many counter sets (most of trollers..but even less with i7)..well..you can expect people to make stalker hunt builds..so well...you can't say it isn't fair that stalkers can be countered
...
Ice/energy tanks in warburg and spines/sr in SC FTW!! 
Icy will be down (again) ^^'
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Ice/energy tanks in warburg and spines/sr in SC FTW!! Icy will be down (again) ^^'
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Just wait till I get your blaster again little man 
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you can't say it isn't fair that stalkers can be countered...
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countered ok
but find exep for a hold, a build that can nullifiate the tanking ability of a tank? or the killing rate of a blapper/rava.
it's not a buff /debuff. i mean you can do a kin to help taking down regen or tank by sucking their speed rechar or their end, but during that the tank can still tank and a regen can still tear you in 2 critick if he catch you
As noted Morae earlier I apologised for being rude, was being abit paranoid and had a bad day no need to pay attention to that bit unfortunately however due to the limited edit time I can't change it, and fyi I played WoW for a fair while, and very good rogues are yes far harder to counter than stalkers, but then again using a warrior vs them is not a great idea, yes using a shield and having massive def works for a counter but that won't help vs the mage up ahead, overpower helps but it has enough of a recharge to hit too little when you are stunned most of a fight, and free action potions is like suggesting insps as a counter(worse though as they have a higher relative cost). Also yes I know rogues in WoW do show up after a time and use enviroment to their benefit, howver most good ones don't stand around long enough to show up(yes flagroom in Warsong Gulch but that's suicide anyway, they'd get run down outside or spotted by humans).
Also I don't care if I am seen I play corrupters mostly anyway, not exactly something I'd use if I was worried about being seen, I just hoped we could get solutions that:
1:free up power slots
2:solve binary perception nature(yes I know that idea is binary)
3:give people a good chance to react to stalkers(this will help people get more into pvp as they hopefully won't be so upset about dieing if they can react to it)
So in addition apologies to anyone I have offended, and please no need to continue any arguments, no point to anyway as I really couldn't care if anyone didn't like me over something so silly(time in WoW does that). Also please note that was not my idea I put up it was someone else's, again apologies but some days you end up in bad moods and this place has that annoying edit time limit.
Want to talk builds? 9 Mandatory Powers (2 start/BU/Aim/Stamina Pool/Travel Pool)
Want to talk PvP? Reliance on Inspirations not to get one shotted.
Want to talk Stealth? Tactics renders the entire concealment pool useless.
Stalkers have it easy.
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you can't say it isn't fair that stalkers can be countered...
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countered ok
but find exep for a hold, a build that can nullifiate the tanking ability of a tank? or the killing rate of a blapper/rava.
it's not a buff /debuff. i mean you can do a kin to help taking down regen or tank by sucking their speed rechar or their end, but during that the tank can still tank and a regen can still tear you in 2 critick if he catch you
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then slap the regen:P..AS toggle droppes and I believe that any build has something that can *** them up^^...from knockup to stun to immobilize:P..
the problem is not if they are easily taken down , it more that they still can do and act as the AT it supposed to be.
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3:give people a good chance to react to stalkers(this will help people get more into pvp as they hopefully won't be so upset about dieing if they can react to it)
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that's precisely the point that i don't understand.
there are already a lot of way of getting rid of them inspi,calltroop, aura,tactick,buff,temp power,the sound of the BU, always being in move....
i find the 2 or 3 shotting ability or a rava or a blapper way more unfair as their is no way to prevent it or a least lesser. 
Yes that's true but for some reason people see stalkers as worse than blappers and such, even though you can effectively negate the stalkers ability to deal mass damage with those auras/trops/percep etc. Unless maybe it's an EM/spines stalker.
I don't think it's anything specific to being ASed, it's just like being 2 shotted by an ice blaster really. If i get ASed by a stalker then fair do's, it's just another jump back from the hosp. If, however, i get ASed by a pair of stalkers time after time after time then i get annoyed. Firstly because i know theres nothing in it for them. Secondly it then starts to feel like a deliberate attempt to greif me and ruin my time in the zone. All that will happen is i'll leave, meaning no-one wins. I play a lot of squishies so i know i'm an easy target for stalkers, but when it's the SAME one 10 times in a row i just end up feeling like i'm being well...stalked, in the nasty RL kinda way not the exciting PvP way.
I guess it's all down to the player. One of my best online friends plays, amounst other toons, a stalker. He does it for the challenge, he will try to AS the ice tank or the SR scrapper because it's exciting. If he wanted to just amass a huge rep in as little time as possible he'd camp by the hosp and murder the squishies every time.
Maybe this is a foolish and misguided thought, but i tend to approach PvP with a measure of honour i guess. If i see a lone dominator holding their own against a regen scrapper i'll leave them to it, if i see a person whos afk i wont kill them, if i see someone fall held into a group of nme mobs i'l leap in and hold them (when on my trollers) to stop them getting debt. This isn't because i'm the nicest most altruistic gamer ever to grace a computer game, it's because i was raised with manners and conscience and i take no pleasure kicking someone when they are down.
I think if more people aproached the PvP environment (actually it applies to PvE too) in the same way we wouldn't be arguing about powersets and AT advantages, we'd just be having a nicer time. Frustration and "whining" stems from bad experiences from other players and their attitudes, not from being a bad loser in a fair fight.
It's perhaps an unfortunate fact that these kind of people who go out of their way to grief will tend to stear toward playing an AT like a stalker with somewhat of a PvP advantage as they can't be bothered to learn how to make the most of an underdog. This gives the majority or perfecty pleasant and respectable stalkers a bad name.
It's the behaviour of the players that makes the experience enjoyable or not. When i was playing as my corrupter the other day i was twice in a row teleported by a controller into a group of longbow that inevitably decimated me in seconds. The zone wasn't swamped by villains, the troller didn't gain any rep or bounty, and i gained 65k debt that evening (not that the debt is the point). It was intended with the sole purpose of getting me debt and giving said troller a nasty little kick. Perhaps they couldn't find any kittens to burn that day and i was unlucky enough to become the focus of thier spite. Either way i quietly left the zone, no need to get into a slagging match, but my enjoyment was spoilt by a person looking to greif with no gain other than to enjoy my suffering.
This is the reason people get overly upset on these boards, theres nothing WRONG with stalkers, or trollers, or scrappers or blappers or ANY AT. Unfortunately there is something wrong with a loud minority of PvP players and they will drive people out of PvP as long as it exists, regardless of nerfs, buffs, AT changes, lvl gaps and the like.
I for one will continue to PvP, as i refuse to let the actions of a few change the way i want to play the game. But then i'm a glutton for punishment sometimes 
and others aren't so defiant. These people who are driven out of PvP because of this behaviour are a loss to all of us who PvP in good spirit, and thats a sad thing.
I miss him in the weeping of the rain;
I want him at the shrinking of the tide;
The old snows melt from every mountain-side,
And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane;
But last year's bitter loving must remain
~Edna St. Vincent Millay
Nerf TP foe hehe, I still think debt should be removed from mobs in pvp zones as well as xp, leave the missions and let people get badges for those mob kills but don't have debt.
Sorry if this has been posted and I missed it but this looks like a great idea that should solve all the woes with percep in pvp. This is from Quiet_Ninja on the US stalker forum:
stalkers are not stalkers if they can be seen coming from a mile away.
my suggestions:
Buff stalkers hide so they dont need anything more to reach the -perception cap, stalkers are the only AT's that have 4 powers in each set that are required to take, which makes our builds very tight.
Hde
AS
BU
Placate
1/4th of our builds to 30 are already picked for us.
1/5th of our buildsto 40 are already picked for us.
1/6th of our final builds are already picked for us.
again, no AT primary/secondary has 4 of the same abilities that are required to take for the AT to function properly.
hide should be alot better then invisibility, and because our AT cannot function properly without first strike capabilities, we should be at the -perception cap and other concealment powers should grant other AT's greater -perception so they can be hidden so to speak. on top of this, one +perception power should be required to reach the +perception cap at which they should be able to see all AT's that are invisible from 50 feet, and stalkers that are hidden from only 10 feet away.
this will free up alot of power choices for alot of AT's, and maybe even encourage others to delve into the concealment pool for a more rounded pvp.
now in our current situation i have no problems killing anything with hide+stealth, and in RV hide+invis, detoggle/toggle hide+stealth kill people. but i feel that the arms race thats required for pvp to give others an edge is out of wack and needs to be revamped. i dont want to waste 2-3 more powers and another powerpool just to do what i can do to mobs.
my pvp build has 4-5 powers that i dont even use for pve, for instance, my stalker doesnt need stealth, invis, retsu, hasten, and acrobatics for pve. but for pvp without them i have holes in my build that need to be fixed for optimal killing ability.
imagine if heros and other villains didnt need to double stack +perception to deal with stalkers, but at the same time, stalkers would never get hunted down by other AT's, WE ARE THE STALKERS, nobody else should be hunting other players thats our job, i dont see blasters tanking, i dont see dominators dishing out 1000 damage headsplitters, and i dont see MM's putting other people into perma hold and causing massive damage. so why does this game allow other AT's to stalk stalkers, the only AT that should be able to stalkstalkers, is another stalker!
i want balance for everyone, not just stalkers, with stalkers at the -perception cap, other AT's can see them before they A strike, and all they need is one CM buff, or one set of tactics on the team, or one inherent +perception ability. once a stalker comes out of hide, the whole world can see him and that is the challange he must face.
i want everyone to think about it.
what if only one person on your team needed tactics to stop that pesky solo stalker from jumping the squishies?
what if all the stalkers out there didnt have to add even more powers to their tight builds to function properly?