Attempt to fix perception(from US boards)

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I don't think it's anything specific to being ASed, it's just like being 2 shotted by an ice blaster really. If i get ASed by a stalker then fair do's, it's just another jump back from the hosp. If, however, i get ASed by a pair of stalkers time after time after time then i get annoyed. Firstly because i know theres nothing in it for them. Secondly it then starts to feel like a deliberate attempt to greif me and ruin my time in the zone. All that will happen is i'll leave, meaning no-one wins. I play a lot of squishies so i know i'm an easy target for stalkers, but when it's the SAME one 10 times in a row i just end up feeling like i'm being well...stalked, in the nasty RL kinda way not the exciting PvP way.

I guess it's all down to the player. One of my best online friends plays, amounst other toons, a stalker. He does it for the challenge, he will try to AS the ice tank or the SR scrapper because it's exciting. If he wanted to just amass a huge rep in as little time as possible he'd camp by the hosp and murder the squishies every time.

Maybe this is a foolish and misguided thought, but i tend to approach PvP with a measure of honour i guess. If i see a lone dominator holding their own against a regen scrapper i'll leave them to it, if i see a person whos afk i wont kill them, if i see someone fall held into a group of nme mobs i'l leap in and hold them (when on my trollers) to stop them getting debt. This isn't because i'm the nicest most altruistic gamer ever to grace a computer game, it's because i was raised with manners and conscience and i take no pleasure kicking someone when they are down.

I think if more people aproached the PvP environment (actually it applies to PvE too) in the same way we wouldn't be arguing about powersets and AT advantages, we'd just be having a nicer time. Frustration and "whining" stems from bad experiences from other players and their attitudes, not from being a bad loser in a fair fight.

It's perhaps an unfortunate fact that these kind of people who go out of their way to grief will tend to stear toward playing an AT like a stalker with somewhat of a PvP advantage as they can't be bothered to learn how to make the most of an underdog. This gives the majority or perfecty pleasant and respectable stalkers a bad name.

It's the behaviour of the players that makes the experience enjoyable or not. When i was playing as my corrupter the other day i was twice in a row teleported by a controller into a group of longbow that inevitably decimated me in seconds. The zone wasn't swamped by villains, the troller didn't gain any rep or bounty, and i gained 65k debt that evening (not that the debt is the point). It was intended with the sole purpose of getting me debt and giving said troller a nasty little kick. Perhaps they couldn't find any kittens to burn that day and i was unlucky enough to become the focus of thier spite. Either way i quietly left the zone, no need to get into a slagging match, but my enjoyment was spoilt by a person looking to greif with no gain other than to enjoy my suffering.

This is the reason people get overly upset on these boards, theres nothing WRONG with stalkers, or trollers, or scrappers or blappers or ANY AT. Unfortunately there is something wrong with a loud minority of PvP players and they will drive people out of PvP as long as it exists, regardless of nerfs, buffs, AT changes, lvl gaps and the like.

I for one will continue to PvP, as i refuse to let the actions of a few change the way i want to play the game. But then i'm a glutton for punishment sometimes and others aren't so defiant. These people who are driven out of PvP because of this behaviour are a loss to all of us who PvP in good spirit, and thats a sad thing.

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amen ^_^
i'm 100% ok with you

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2:solve binary perception nature(yes I know that idea is binary)


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Make hits on the stalker reduce there +stealth rating by X% until it reaches 0. Defence bonus from hide is tied into the % of stealth. Possibly change overall perception/stealth across the board.
eg. stalker at 80% gets hit by a dev blaster twice. players with tactics can see the stalker and attack.
Stalker takes 2 more hits and is totally unhidden to everyone nearby and there granny.

I'm making the numbers up of course, but you get the idea.

Alternatively, make stalkers 100% visible but only within a narrow cone of vision. More perception widens the cone. Probably a massive recode though.

Erm stalkers already show up when they get hit by any damage, a cone would be good I still can't help thinking if we'd get a load of people spinning around in circles or not . Perhaps as suggested earlier a random chance of detection, or even maybe have them simply appear after a while of being near you.

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Erm stalkers already show up when they get hit by any damage, a cone would be good I still can't help thinking if we'd get a load of people spinning around in circles or not . Perhaps as suggested earlier a random chance of detection, or even maybe have them simply appear after a while of being near you.

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Yes, show up to everyone though. Not with stealth dropping in small increments.

I thought GV and RV and the FA epic was going to the doom of stalkers but after the RV event its altered my outlook quite abit, true we've not seen the full impact of lvl 50 epic powers yet in RV but the per/stealth war dosn't have me as worried as it did before.
I think its down to the fact that the per/stealth caps are so close so even if a hero caps his per which is impossible without a team i might add then hes still not going to see me untill i'm 10 foot away.
Scrappers are not such a problem either .. those players taking spines/regen can't see stalkers till they attack and 90% of the time once a stalkers attacked hes already gone.. spines/SR isn't a problem either .. they can take tactics and the per shield but still have a limited distance they can see stalkers at but are the easiest to kill, so no real threat there.
Ice tankers .. well you can just ignore those guys lol.

With i7 tho i can see a huge change in stalkers what with the dark sets coming out and i know i'll be making a stalker killer killer which i tested during the RV event with rendered spine/regen scrappers totaly useless and ripped up spines/SR countless times.
And lets not forget the PPP sniper powers .. just to quote a friend who was on test the other day he said a spine scrapper said to him after he kited the guy with his brute with range powers " its not fair now brutes have ranged attacks"

Its not all doom and gloom peeps just wait and see

hum the fact was that their was too much heros and vilains fighting at the same time to see if stalker was doomed or not.
easy to AS when it is apocalypse around you

by the way i saw that our defense was quite the same as those of scrapper safe that they could have tool to touch us that we don't have to do the same. so i think that FA will not allow us to one one with a sr scrapper for exemple like i did (very balanced and funny) at the event. it's sad.

Huh showing up bit by bit, that could be interesting. Also we know it's not doom, still like to make it less binary or enable wider use of stealth effectively by other ATs. Oh well maybe it's not doable.

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Also I think the only reason people whine so much about AS is because you don't see it coming,

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Really? I'd never have guessed, giving that the pro-stalker side of the arguments seems to hinge on how everyone's got +per and see's the stalker coming from miles off and so stalker's stealth should be improved.
Which is it?

As to the stalkers should be the only ones hunting stalkers; utter tripe. Rubbish of galactic proportions, enough drivel to cover most of Northern Europe (including Wales) in a 50ft deep layer of the stuff.
Nuff said.

Given that PvP doesn't start until 15th lvl minimum and stealth can be gotten by lvl6 I don't see the problem with the status quo regarding stalker stealth.

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I don't think it's anything specific to being ASed, it's just like being 2 shotted by an ice blaster really.

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Possibly not, but with stalkers dominating the numbers on the villain side of PvP it can feel like you're being ASd an AWFUL lot, even if none of them are actually greiving you.

I view not so much as a problem for stalkers(easy to not get seen), but for others who might want stealth capability. Since due to needing to have enough per to deal with stalkers, means concealment is rendered effectively useless for other ATs in those situations, stalkers are fine(except for the placate bug thing i hear of), but the effectiveness of stealth for others isn't so much.

Fair enough, but that's INEVITABLE given the effort people have to put in to see the stalkers, OF COURSE they're going to see other stealthed toons as a byproduct.

Well thing is other ATs have about half the stealth cap of stalkers, which means they'd end up appearing from huge distances even with their stealth.

maybe cause they don't NEED to be stealthed to be effective?

by the way not very "hero" attitude i think ^^

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maybe cause they don't NEED to be stealthed to be effective?

by the way not very "hero" attitude i think ^^

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I think some of them would like to be stealthed to be remotely safe

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I would also like to see AS changed so that it cannot be buffed with red insps or forge etc. The one-hit kill capacity of AS was removed (so you can only go down to 1 hp isn't it?) to give a little balance, at least long enough to pop a green if your fast, so being able to override this with one red seems an oversight to me.


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Interesting thread, I don't have too much of a view on it either way but just a tiny clarification to your point on the no "one-hit" kills Kitty.

As I understand it the change (which comes in with I7 (bang goes another kitten) soooon) means that IF you are at 100% health then no single attack (buffed, insp'd or otherwise enhanced) will take you down.

So yes you will be able to pop a green and fire back (if you can before your are placated etc etc ad nauseam) but NOT if you lost so much as 1hp from landing your SJ and didn't recover it before the dastardly (a word that is woefully underused in the english language) Stalker AS's you.

That's it - nothing else to add... Hmmm oh ok then why not...

Would I buff/nerf hide or any other aspect of stalkers... no probably not. I'm of the opinion (based on my rather limited through personal choice PvP experience) that its balanced pretty well as it is. Why's that Sparky? Well, its because as it stands, in a one on one situation then the initial strike is in the stalkers favour (assuming that the stalked doesn't have +perc). So what does the (hopefully clever) victim do? Well he/she either respecs in some +perc (if they are that into PvP) or (and brace yourself here people)... they team!

OK so that was probably quite a shock but seriously - the hero (I'll assume its Villain v Hero as Warburg seems to be dead as a blaster (sorry guys :P )) teams up with someone who buffs their Perc. Now who has the advantage? The Hero(ine) if they play their cards right.

This is about where it seems the balance of power has gotten to now... hence I suspect the OP's original desire to express their view. But what happens next (gazes into crystal ball) - well the Stalker teams up to... getting some buffs of his/her own. And now we're at a point where there is some kind of balance.

Some of the "best" stalking I've seen has been done by teamed stalkers, working with the other ATs, their role should never be first strike (IMHO), they are meant to be sneaky.... So whilst the meat shields lumber into battle and the hero's start pounding on them, the stalker is creeping around behind the squishy (and I can't blame them for targetting things they can 1 or 2 hit - that's just common sense) and quietly knocking them off.

Hmm - for someone with very little view I've prattled alot there... Apologies! Tis late and I'm prone to overthinking :P

I play as a stalker myself and though I shouldn't be revealing my weaknesses, the acronym "PBAoE" comes to mind. Perhaps with the word "toggle" thrown in there somewhere for good measure, and maybe another acronym - "DoT".

I really wish I could think of a way to fix perception/stealth, as it's really not too balanced...Let me think for a sec...

Ok...So ATM, Stalkers can be seen with only one +per power using only hide...Decrease the strength of Perception powers?

Or...Nope I honestly can't think of any way that would be fair on both sides...Any of the ideas I can come up with would only result in Heroes moaning and whining like babies, because they can't take what the AT is designed to do. One thing maybe, decrease the perception powers strength, and I mean quite drastically. For example, giving perception powers a max of 30, so that stalkers would only be visible at 30 meters. You can still defend yourself from them, you just can't stalk the stalkers back, sounds fair to me.

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Ice/energy tanks in warburg and spines/sr in SC FTW!! Icy will be down (again) ^^'

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Just wait till I get your blaster again little man

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IIRC my blaster has killed ur stalker more times in SC.. and just wait till im 30 and it has aid self too^^ (or for my spines/SR with tactics , shame it's just lv18 so far, but gimme a week or two)

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Well thing is other ATs have about half the stealth cap of stalkers, which means they'd end up appearing from huge distances even with their stealth.

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And that would appear to be right and proper. Stalkers are the stealth specialists - they're SUPPOSED to be harder to see than anyone else.
If you can see a stealth specialist you would expect to be able to see a stealth amatuer.

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I really wish I could think of a way to fix perception/stealth, as it's really not too balanced...Let me think for a sec...

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Isn't it? Why not. Seems fine to me. Some people can see stalkers, other can't. I get the impression people are of the opinion that stalker should always be invisible, or in the case of this post, only visible at close range despite your perception bonus.

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I really wish I could think of a way to fix perception/stealth, as it's really not too balanced...Let me think for a sec...

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Isn't it? Why not. Seems fine to me. Some people can see stalkers, other can't. I get the impression people are of the opinion that stalker should always be invisible, or in the case of this post, only visible at close range despite your perception bonus.

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No, it isn't. What's the point in having an AT that's primary function is stealth and the ability to remain unseen, if they can be seen by most everyone in the zone? Perception powers are common, meaning perc can be capped easily, as opposed to stealth powers, where's the balance there?

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No, it isn't. What's the point in having an AT that's primary function is stealth and the ability to remain unseen, if they can be seen by most everyone in the zone? Perception powers are common, meaning perc can be capped easily, as opposed to stealth powers, where's the balance there?

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Now you're exaggerating. *Most* people can't see stalkers. Tactics alone isn't enough to see through hide and stealth, another perception power is required and the simple fact of the matter is that most builds don't have a second perception power they can choose before getting into the Epics and even then, not everyone tailors their build to cope with stalkers.

It's a simple case of rock, paper, scissors. Some builds can see stalkers and that's how it should be. There's nothing wrong with perception now.

Stalkers can get around +perception easily anyway, I dont see any reason to start giving them more. Besides, we should wait to see what I7 brings before changing things.

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No, it isn't. What's the point in having an AT that's primary function is stealth and the ability to remain unseen, if they can be seen by most everyone in the zone? Perception powers are common, meaning perc can be capped easily, as opposed to stealth powers, where's the balance there?

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Now you're exaggerating. *Most* people can't see stalkers. Tactics alone isn't enough to see through hide and stealth, another perception power is required and the simple fact of the matter is that most builds don't have a second perception power they can choose before getting into the Epics and even then, not everyone tailors their build to cope with stalkers.

It's a simple case of rock, paper, scissors. Some builds can see stalkers and that's how it should be. There's nothing wrong with perception now.

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Yes but with some builds it tends to be quite a powerful counter, not that it can't be worked around or isn't any fun to encounter, but it is very effective, fortunately using invisibility helps alot. Further yes other ATs are "stealth amateurs" in comparison but it's not so nice imo that concealment pool is so ineffective for them.

Perhaps if once the stealther reached a certain distance from someone their could be some kind of 'dice roll' test to try and spot them with +/-per giving bonuses to seeing/staying unseen.

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I really wish I could think of a way to fix perception/stealth, as it's really not too balanced...Let me think for a sec...

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Isn't it? Why not. Seems fine to me. Some people can see stalkers, other can't. I get the impression people are of the opinion that stalker should always be invisible, or in the case of this post, only visible at close range despite your perception bonus.

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No, it isn't. What's the point in having an AT that's primary function is stealth and the ability to remain unseen, if they can be seen by most everyone in the zone? Perception powers are common, meaning perc can be capped easily, as opposed to stealth powers, where's the balance there?

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Most everyone is a big exaggeration. Most everyone CAN'T see them if they run stealth+hide.