had a quick play last nite, and 6 of us (5 rifle brothers and a lib) managed to do frostfire with only one faceplant (that being me 
). Up to lvl 10 with my rifleman and also put a lvl 3 terminator into the SG (if we need the space at some point I'll remove one of them)
Also got to 10 last night with my Terminator, so now I have Taunt to pull the aggro off of the squishy types . And on that note, how is the balance of AT's looking in the Rifles? It may just be be me, but I've rarely got on a team with more then 2 or 3 Blasters from the SG on it (and that's a team of eight...). Do we have too many 'alternative' builds and not enough Riflemen?
Okay, so there's lots of new info been posted, and much of it seems to require a redesign of The Imperial Rifle IF we want to be more of a copy of true WH40K Space Marines...this means it's definately time to start defining our image with guidlines again!
If we want to use the LARGE shoulder pads, then we need a different way to differentiate between troop types, as the shoulder trim won't be as obvious.
One thought I have had; Librarians are controllers and as such debuff our enemy, and Chaplains are generally empath defenders for healing out troops, but who is actually buffing our troops? We only have one Commander, so he's gonna be spread a bit thin!
My thought was that Chaplains would be the buffers, and lead from the front and inspire the troops (Tankers/Scrappers with Leadership)
Librarians are de-buffers and troop support, but who primarily affect the enemy with their psychic abilities (Controller with either MC or Illusion and Kinetic or Empathy)
Apothecaries are the same as Battle Brothers, but have the medicine pool as their first pick up (field medics, not as good as any Empathy healers). can be either Rifle (Blaster AR/En) or Assault (Scrapper Sword/Inv)
Scouts the same as Battle brothers, but have Katanna for Assault, and use Concealment as their first pick up skill
Commander is unique, and other unique builds available as specific characters, as dictated by Commander.
I should say that I'm not a big "build" player, and I don't know the system well, so much of this is enthusiasm talking!
Any thoughts?
Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!
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Do we have too many 'alternative' builds and not enough Riflemen?
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't think so really. You just happened to have 2 of the 3(?) existing librarians on your team last night (Inspector Frost, aka gulf, and myself 
).
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
[ QUOTE ]
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Do we have too many 'alternative' builds and not enough Riflemen?
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't think so really. You just happened to have 2 of the 3(?) existing librarians on your team last night (Inspector Frost, aka gulf, and myself ).
[/ QUOTE ]
Never really had a problem with it myself either. Team of 6 I was in last nite was 5 rifles and 1 lib.
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do we have too many 'alternative' builds and not enough Riflemen?
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't think so really. You just happened to have 2 of the 3(?) existing librarians on your team last night (Inspector Frost, aka gulf, and myself ).
[/ QUOTE ]
Never really had a problem with it myself either. Team of 6 I was in last nite was 5 rifles and 1 lib.
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Ah, just me then 
On an alternative note - any decision on 'standard' travel powers or is everyone going for whatever fits their build?
My thought was Super Jump for normal troops (Jump Packs), with Hover as an additional.
Teleport and/or Flight for Chaplains and Librarians, although Chaplains having the more visible Flightas their priority so they can be followed by troops. And Teleport for Terminators, beacuse they'd look stupid flying (and it's justified by 40K text)!
Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!
[ QUOTE ]
On an alternative note - any decision on 'standard' travel powers or is everyone going for whatever fits their build?
[/ QUOTE ]
Think just whatever fits. Obviously fly is a good one for the whole jetpack thingy (lets just hope these new costume options being introduced in i7 include one ). SJ would also fit in with this concept, having boosters or something to propel urself along. Teleport fits in with the whole tech/gadget thing. Only really SS that I can't see really fitting in, although it could be expalined as similar to SJ only with horizontal boosters rather than vertical.
Took a couple of pics again last night
Showing the helmet and chest detail
Giving a little scale by standing next to an agent.
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If we want to use the LARGE shoulder pads, then we need a different way to differentiate between troop types, as the shoulder trim won't be as obvious.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I prefer the smaller Tech ones, as the trim I think is useful. However, I wouldn't have any problem taking the big uns, and having the scouts use the smaller pads?
[ QUOTE ]
One thought I have had; Librarians are controllers and as such debuff our enemy, and Chaplains are generally empath defenders for healing out troops, but who is actually buffing our troops?
[/ QUOTE ]
Happy with the Libs, but the more I read the more I think the Empaths don't suit Chappy's. I've not read anything that said Chaplains healed, though I do agree other powers suit chaplains, Particularly clear-mind, fort etc. Perhaps a Empath build with only heal-other? Apothecaries did, on the other hand, heal. They were full battlefield surgeons, though retaining the gene wossname was just as important as saving the marines lives.
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My thought was that Chaplains would be the buffers, and lead from the front and inspire the troops (Tankers/Scrappers with Leadership)
[/ QUOTE ]
happy with that, personally think Scraps fit it better to be honest - Tougher than a Brother, does at least as much damage, but squishier than a Terminator (however, as pointed out, a Crozium looks more like a mace than anything in the Scrapper primary, but plenty of them have chainswords, so perhaps Katana?).
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Librarians are de-buffers and troop support, but who primarily affect the enemy with their psychic abilities (Controller with either MC or Illusion and Kinetic or Empathy)
[/ QUOTE ]
Happy with that, though not sure about Empathy again
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I should say that I'm not a big "build" player, and I don't know the system well, so much of this is enthusiasm talking!
[/ QUOTE ]
Its probably better that way to be honest, all the builds should steer clear of uber choices, and go in-character.
I've pretty much accepted that my build is b0rked, so I'll have to restart, so I wait with baited breath for some final decisions.
Keep up the good work Electron.
[ QUOTE ]
If we want to use the LARGE shoulder pads, then we need a different way to differentiate between troop types, as the shoulder trim won't be as obvious.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I prefer the smaller Tech ones, as the trim I think is useful. However, I wouldn't have any problem taking the big uns, and having the scouts use the smaller pads?
[ QUOTE ]
One thought I have had; Librarians are controllers and as such debuff our enemy, and Chaplains are generally empath defenders for healing out troops, but who is actually buffing our troops?
[/ QUOTE ]
Happy with the Libs, but the more I read the more I think the Empaths don't suit Chappy's. I've not read anything that said Chaplains healed, though I do agree other powers suit chaplains, Particularly clear-mind, fort etc. Perhaps a Empath build with only heal-other? Apothecaries did, on the other hand, heal. They were full battlefield surgeons, though retaining the gene wossname was just as important as saving the marines lives.
[ QUOTE ]
My thought was that Chaplains would be the buffers, and lead from the front and inspire the troops (Tankers/Scrappers with Leadership)
[/ QUOTE ]
happy with that, personally think Scraps fit it better to be honest - Tougher than a Brother, does at least as much damage, but squishier than a Terminator (however, as pointed out, a Crozium looks more like a mace than anything in the Scrapper primary, but plenty of them have chainswords, so perhaps Katana?).
[ QUOTE ]
Librarians are de-buffers and troop support, but who primarily affect the enemy with their psychic abilities (Controller with either MC or Illusion and Kinetic or Empathy)
[/ QUOTE ]
Happy with that, though not sure about Empathy again
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I should say that I'm not a big "build" player, and I don't know the system well, so much of this is enthusiasm talking!
[/ QUOTE ]
Its probably better that way to be honest, all the builds should steer clear of uber choices, and go in-character.
I've pretty much accepted that my build is b0rked, so I'll have to restart, so I wait with baited breath for some final decisions.
Keep up the good work Electron.
* forum knackered again?
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On an alternative note - any decision on 'standard' travel powers or is everyone going for whatever fits their build?
[/ QUOTE ]
Think just whatever fits. Obviously fly is a good one for the whole jetpack thingy (lets just hope these new costume options being introduced in i7 include one ). SJ would also fit in with this concept, having boosters or something to propel urself along. Teleport fits in with the whole tech/gadget thing. Only really SS that I can't see really fitting in, although it could be expalined as similar to SJ only with horizontal boosters rather than vertical.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I currently have a lev 8 Claws/Invun scrapper (Blamecarrier Bane; I hate scrappers, I love Lightning Claws Terminators) and I have 3 attacks (plus the pre lev 10 freebee) and 3 defence, so I can start getting stuff from the power pools. TP seems the obvious choice, and stamina looks to be a good idea, but what about leadership?
Any of you lot got one of these for an alt? Able to reccomend what next?
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[ QUOTE ]
On an alternative note - any decision on 'standard' travel powers or is everyone going for whatever fits their build?
[/ QUOTE ]
Think just whatever fits. Obviously fly is a good one for the whole jetpack thingy (lets just hope these new costume options being introduced in i7 include one ). SJ would also fit in with this concept, having boosters or something to propel urself along. Teleport fits in with the whole tech/gadget thing. Only really SS that I can't see really fitting in, although it could be expalined as similar to SJ only with horizontal boosters rather than vertical.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I currently have a lev 8 Claws/Invun scrapper (Blamecarrier Bane; I hate scrappers, I love Lightning Claws Terminators) and I have 3 attacks (plus the pre lev 10 freebee) and 3 defence, so I can start getting stuff from the power pools. TP seems the obvious choice, and stamina looks to be a good idea, but what about leadership?
Any of you lot got one of these for an alt? Able to reccomend what next?
I'm trying hard not to get sucked into this reckless and foolhardy plan to stop me ever leveling a hero to 50.
What I would say though, from an outside but heavyly WH2K fan perspective, is; aren't the shoulder pads a bit small and girly even for regular marines? I would have thought the big medieval ones would be closer.
Far be it for me to interfere though.
I really like this idea, and had I not been sucked irrevicably into the 1AT Coalition, I'd definately be there with you "doing it for the Emperor"
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[ QUOTE ]
If we want to use the LARGE shoulder pads, then we need a different way to differentiate between troop types, as the shoulder trim won't be as obvious.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I prefer the smaller Tech ones, as the trim I think is useful. However, I wouldn't have any problem taking the big uns, and having the scouts use the smaller pads?
[/ QUOTE ]
My opinion is that the smaller tech ones are great for the Marines because the trim is useful (as you say), but the big ones might be good on Scouts because they're not supposed to be in powered armour yet! Flak Jacket and Big shoulder pads for Scouts, maybe with a coloured strip on their trousers to signify specialisty (assault/rifle)?
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Librarians are de-buffers and troop support, but who primarily affect the enemy with their psychic abilities (Controller with either MC or Illusion and Kinetic or Empathy)
[/ QUOTE ]
Happy with that, though not sure about Empathy again
[/ QUOTE ]
The main idea behind this was that we don't have any dedicated healers, unless we say that Apothercaries have to be Empathy Defenders (and the Defender powersets don't seem to match the rationale at all!). Giving one of the marine types access to Empahy seemed sensible, and as Librarians have to take the Troop Support role, then it seemed reasonable that they would also have to find ways to use their psychic abilities in new ways in this dimension to forfil that role more.
Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!
I still feel a Rifleman (blaster) with the healing pool fits the concept more than defenders (battlefield medic may not be in the game, but they would have them if you concider any kind or realism) the problem being that it's a bugger to heal people who run around a lot.
Once I get my Terminator to lev 14 and with a travel power, my rifleman/medic (currently lev 9; Lego in the Rifles) will start to be played, and I will hopefully make it workable.
I agree that Empathy as a power set doesn't fit as well as the Medicine Pool, but I feel that without it we will need a lot more Apothercaries and we will be below strength for far longer than if we "shoe-horn" Empathy into another class.
The main difference:
Empathy Power set - Resurrect (Full HP/Full End) - Lvl 6
Medicine Pool - Resuscitate (Full HP/No End) - Lvl 20
I don't think it fits badly into the Librarian rationale, we just need to remember that we're inspired by the 40k, not crippled by it. Our Chapter is having to evolve, and our abilities with it...
Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!
I feel such a fraud...
I need a few of you to come over and play WH40k!
I am intrigued by the mention of the commander having a unique build, what would you propose I go for?
As much as I appreciate the call to utter authenticity we do need to be realistic and recognise that in this game a bunch of blasters without buffage are going to get slaughtered to the point of irritation at times.
I very much like the distinction that was mentioned earlier:
Librarian DEBUFF ENEMY
Chaplain BUFF SQUAD (we don;t have teams in this sg 
)
I like the tech pads we have but I fully appreciate the arguements for and against them, I think they do provide the easiet differentiation between the roles. The terminators are already marked out by there big hefty medieval ones, however I am about to go on and play with the designer AGAIN to see if I can come up with a unique commanders build, having played DoW nearly to completion in the last 2 days (one forgets how easy RTS reallt is) it is evident that commanders are close combat buffers, to me that says a tank or scrapper with leadership, seeing as how leadership does little for blasters and scrappers in the way of buffing it seems that a tank migth have to be the way forward but with a marine build, also commanders don;t wear helmets so shall I look at that I wonder.... off to build planner and designer, see you all in a bit.
Keep goign with this evolution thing, it rocks that you guys are so into it.
OI! *pokes Doulos*
Why aint you on as much anymore?
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I am intrigued by the mention of the commander having a unique build, what would you propose I go for?
[/ QUOTE ]
I kinda like the idea of a Tanker with twin robotic arms and huge gloves/robot hands from the costume builder, combined with taking Energy Melee, so that you have the twin Power Fist look!
Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!
Wel Electron, I already have this sitting at level 14
here is my proposal for a commanding Invul Mace, he might take a while to get going but the main thing about him is his precense on the field of battle...
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: War Mace
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3) EndRdx(5) EndRdx(19)
01) --> Bash==> Acc(1) Acc(9) Dmg(17) Dmg(50)
02) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(2) Rechg(5) Rechg(7) Heal(7) Heal(13) Heal(15)
04) --> Pulverize==> Acc(4) Acc(9) Dmg(15) Dmg(46)
06) --> Taunt==> Rechg(6)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8) DmgRes(11) DmgRes(11) EndRdx(13) EndRdx(17)
10) --> Assault==> EndRdx(10) EndRdx(27) EndRdx(31)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16)
18) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(18) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(21) EndRdx(21) EndRdx(23)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(25)
24) --> Build Up==> Rechg(24) Rechg(25) Rechg(27)
26) --> Maneuvers==> EndRdx(26) EndRdx(29) EndRdx(31) DefBuf(37) DefBuf(43)
28) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(28) EndRdx(29) EndRdx(31) TH_Buf(34) TH_Buf(40)
30) --> Vengeance==> DefBuf(30)
32) --> Jawbreaker==> Acc(32) Acc(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(34) Rechg(34)
35) --> Shatter==> Acc(35) Acc(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> Crowd Control==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Whirling Mace==> Acc(41) Acc(42) Dmg(42) Dmg(42) Dmg(43) Rechg(43)
44) --> Clobber==> Acc(44) Acc(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(46) Rechg(46)
47) --> Unstoppable==> DmgRes(47) DmgRes(48) DmgRes(48) EndMod(48)
49) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> EndRdx(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------
not the most defence heavy tank but come the 30s he's a damage machine... but then I already have my energy tank who could take Bals place as a commander... what do you guys think? Shall Bal fall in battle as Wes take his place?
if you guys want Wes as a commander... he would look like this 
Well D, if you're after a unique build for a commander then energy/invun may not be the best choice, given it's one of the standard builds for a Terminator (and is already being run by Fea'Ther )
Also, Wes is Huge build is he not? I always pictured the Commander as being more standard size but with slightly fancier armour then the standard rifleman - and a ranged attack of some sort. Pistol Scrapper?
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if you guys want Wes as a commander... he would look like this
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Ooooohhhh... Are we going back to purple armour then?
Formerly @Crimson Archer, now @CA
The Militia - Protecting Paragon City through roleplaying since June 2006!
Well the imperial rifles had there first outing in PvP on dawn of war, I came third out of four (my team mate was kicked halfway through the fight
) but I thought you might like to see some of the boys in action and the colour schemes that an offical product endorses 
(but they have no chaplain 
)
This is not to advertise the game, its to help us in our research
Librarian
Apo
Scouts
Sgt and Squad
I WANNA DO THIS IN THE HOLLOWS (note the commander in there)
Scouts claim the land