[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
non-damaging component (I'm thinking Mud Pots here) are autohit, and thus more reliable for holding aggro than the damage auras that need to roll to-hit in order to taunt.
The best aggro-holding aura in the game is Chilling Embrace without question, with Mud Pots and Invincibility after that. Blazing Aura would be 4th on the list (as the largest damage aura).
[/ QUOTE ]
mudpots does damage. I'm sure. I see damage ticks in my mudpots.
[/ QUOTE ]
And if you read my message more carefully you'll note that I stated that Mud Pots has a Non-damaging *component* - which is a slow. At no point did I state that Mud Pots does no damage. Rather, it has a to-hit damaging component and (importantly) a seemingly auto-hit slow/taunt component. I have limited experience with Stone/ but Mud Pots certainly seems to work the way I've described and holds aggro very well over it's limited radius.
[ QUOTE ]
The one without any damage component is invincible
[/ QUOTE ]
Chilling Embrace inflicts no damage either.
[ QUOTE ]
I believe invincible to have faster ticks of taunt because anything within my invincible aura doesnt turn its back for a split anything whereas all other tanker auras can turn just before the next damage tick with taunt unslotted.
[/ QUOTE ]
This may well be a result of the relative level of enemies you were fighting - higher level enemies are taunted for less time on each "tick". Certainly, I have never noticed Chilling Embrace to be less effective than Invincibility in holding aggro - rather, as you note, the slow component seems to make it more effective if anything.
This is all a little offtopic now, though - the debate seems to be centered on whether Taunt is necessary to be a good tanker.
Post deleted by SHANNON
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
non-damaging component (I'm thinking Mud Pots here) are autohit, and thus more reliable for holding aggro than the damage auras that need to roll to-hit in order to taunt.
The best aggro-holding aura in the game is Chilling Embrace without question, with Mud Pots and Invincibility after that. Blazing Aura would be 4th on the list (as the largest damage aura).
[/ QUOTE ]
mudpots does damage. I'm sure. I see damage ticks in my mudpots.
[/ QUOTE ]
And if you read my message more carefully you'll note that I stated that Mud Pots has a Non-damaging *component* - which is a slow. At no point did I state that Mud Pots does no damage. Rather, it has a to-hit damaging component and (importantly) a seemingly auto-hit slow/taunt component. I have limited experience with Stone/ but Mud Pots certainly seems to work the way I've described and holds aggro very well over it's limited radius.
[/ QUOTE ]
i do apologise i read component as meaning power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The one without any damage component is invincible
[/ QUOTE ]
Chilling Embrace inflicts no damage either.
[/ QUOTE ]
whilst you were writing this i clicked with what i put and changed that it was slip.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I believe invincible to have faster ticks of taunt because anything within my invincible aura doesnt turn its back for a split anything whereas all other tanker auras can turn just before the next damage tick with taunt unslotted.
[/ QUOTE ]
This may well be a result of the relative level of enemies you were fighting - higher level enemies are taunted for less time on each "tick". Certainly, I have never noticed Chilling Embrace to be less effective than Invincibility in holding aggro - rather, as you note, the slow component seems to make it more effective if anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
I write fast go look at my tanks and make sure what i said was ok. I even write then post read then edit, most my posts are at 4am where its easier to get away with it. I am not sure it is down to level of enemies I was fighting because whilst playing my fire and stone against nothing out of the ordinary in level of enemies, enemies could turn in my aura which was nothing i had ever seen happen before on my invuln.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering what is your AT?
[/ QUOTE ]
Among other things I have lvl 50 stone/axe tanker. So even if I may not be the best tanker around I do have fairly good idea what tanking is.
Sure you can run around and almost keep the aggro, but still... your not as effective as tankies with taunt. Sure theres crappy tanks with taunt but theres even more crappy tanks without it.
I do keep all tankers in my teams when I get one, but getting a tank without taunt always makes me go "damnit! yet again one without... oh well."
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
[ QUOTE ]
I do keep all tankers in my teams when I get one, but getting a tank without taunt always makes me go "damnit! yet again one without... oh well."
[/ QUOTE ]
I tend not to look for taunt. I tend to see how the tank behaves and the results of the engagements.
If takes on one enemy and I think "waste of space", if he takes his share or just a little more I think "Well, at least I have another guy in melee range, I'd prefer a scrapper though". If he takes half the spawn I think "Good, this should go well". If he takes the whole spawn and keeps them nice and close I think "Superb tanking! Time to AoE!".
This is from the point of view of either of my defenders and I think either of them are capable of looking after the sole tank in a 1 tank 8 person team for any sensible level enemies. It is also what I try to achieve with my tank.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
I pretty much agree with those who prefer taunt in a tank.
Yes, there are tanks with taunt who don't seem to know how to get the most out of it. And tanks without taunt, namely ice armour tankers in my experience, who can get away without taunt becasue of a pretty effective aura.
However, I have yet to team with a tank without taunt (non-ice armour), who has been able to group up the mobs and keep them focused on them, regardless of how many high dmg Aoes are fired into the mass by the rest of the team.
I'm sure it can be done, as I say with ice armour, but with other sets, I reckon it would be a bit of hard work to have as much control over a mass of mobs as a tanker with taunt. And why make the role harder?
There do appear to be tankers about, who don't know what they do best, enjoy this and are able to do it well. Some of this, I am sure is down to ED; now its perfectly feasible to slot your attacks very early on, once you've got the 3 or 4 slots in your shields - I remember when I was leveling my tanks pre-ED and how I wouldn't slot attacks until most of my shields were 6 slotted! - making me fully aware of my role and abilities to take damage, and the futility of attacking anything all the way to the 30s.
Now, a tank can do damage very early on and should do, why not, if you have your attacks slotted well, without compromising on your shields?
But, whilst ED, in some respect has relieved the monotony of the tanker through the early levels ( no attacks, or non-slotted ones 
) and has brought the negelected attacks into prominence earlier, I view this as a luxury which shouldn't detract from the main role of tanking > aggro managment specialist 
[ QUOTE ]
Well, on a large team I'm there's often a slim chance that there is a Controller or Defender, often negating any real need for Taunt.
[/ QUOTE ]
This often negates the need for a tanker too.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, on a large team I'm there's often a slim chance that there is a Controller or Defender, often negating any real need for Taunt.
[/ QUOTE ]
This often negates the need for a tanker too.
[/ QUOTE ]
The controller one I get.
What defenders negate the need for a tank?
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
Primary amongst them Dark and Rad, especially with nice teammates who will refrain from killing the anchors (although that's a bit of a lost cause with Darkest Night and a Tar Patch down).
Mind you, when I'm out fire controlling on a big team, I quite like a taunting tanker along; what generally happens is I lockdown a chunk of a massive spawn, the rest of the team plough into the guys who aren't locked down (which is fair enough, those guys present an immediate threat and are generally moving closer), the lockdown wears off, and every surviving mob tries to beat the snot out of the one person on the team who doesn't even have the two FF bubbles around them. With a tanker along I'm not so often hitting PFF in that situation.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, on a large team I'm there's often a slim chance that there is a Controller or Defender, often negating any real need for Taunt.
[/ QUOTE ]
This often negates the need for a tanker too.
[/ QUOTE ]
The controller one I get.
What defenders negate the need for a tank?
[/ QUOTE ]
a storm defender in a all-blaster group against predominatly melee mobs (if the stormer has hurricane)
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
[ QUOTE ]
Damaging taunt auras inflict damage which causes a mob to continue to have aggro on you after the actual taunt component has expired - if and only if you have inflicted the most damage to that mob. Since none of the damaging auras do much damage, this is rather unlikely in a teaming scenario.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry I don't buy that. Unless it has been changed since i6.
the reason I say this is because me and my fire-tank friend did a little experiment;
Could I pull agro with my katana/regen away from the tank if she had her fiery aura on. The answer was a resounding no.
I would strike. the mob would turn to me.
The aura would puff and the mob would, before hitting me, turn back to the tank. I find both fiery aura and mudputs to be extremely effective. Can't comment on the others.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
From my experiences of playing a Rad, you can only tank so far. Elite Bosses are a pushover, but the spawn sizes of a medium to large team could cause problems. Anchor based defences are also fickle, so whilst you may be fine in most circumstances, an anchor running or being defeated prematurely can spoil your day.
However having a tanker who understands your powerset and groups the enemies into your debuff zone really makes the difference.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
[ QUOTE ]
a storm defender in a all-blaster group against predominatly melee mobs (if the stormer has hurricane)
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't agree with this:
Firstly the Blasters are going to be damaging them & hence drawing the aggro. So although you'd be able to survive against the melee mobs you won't be managing the aggro the way a decent tank can.
Secondly even Mobs like Warwolves have one ranged attack and they'll paste you with it. Experienced this personally twice last night when 20 wolfies threw 20 boulders at Carni. Splat, even with Hurricane up.
Hurricane is great in enclosed areas (like when a group is standing in one of those little alcoves on the Lab tileset) when you can continually knock-back into the rear wall, even better if you dump Freezing Rain in there too but its no tank substitute.
I'd also agree that Rad / Dark defenders can't really tank for basically the same reason. They can debuff so much that there's little need to manage the aggro (because nothing can hit anyway) but thats a knifes-edge game compared to the relative safeness of having a big lump of meat (/fire/stone/ice) standing in front telling all the mobs what it thinks of their mothers and punching away.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, on a large team I'm there's often a slim chance that there is a Controller or Defender, often negating any real need for Taunt.
[/ QUOTE ]
This often negates the need for a tanker too.
[/ QUOTE ]
The controller one I get.
What defenders negate the need for a tank?
[/ QUOTE ]
Defenders supply:
- Heals
- Buffs
- Debuffs
Thus, either enhancing the damage potential and/or survivability of the team. It's not replacement for a Tanker (I still firmly believe that a Tanker can hold all necessary aggro without Taunt, so I'm saying replacement for Tanker, not Taunt). But it's a different way of approaching it. And having a Tanker along with those Buffs and Debuffs, well, it's just icing on the cake.
I'm not talking about specific builds, Unthing. I'm talking about teaming in general. Some builds though, doesn't quite fit into that statement.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Damaging taunt auras inflict damage which causes a mob to continue to have aggro on you after the actual taunt component has expired - if and only if you have inflicted the most damage to that mob. Since none of the damaging auras do much damage, this is rather unlikely in a teaming scenario.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry I don't buy that. Unless it has been changed since i6.
the reason I say this is because me and my fire-tank friend did a little experiment;
Could I pull agro with my katana/regen away from the tank if she had her fiery aura on. The answer was a resounding no.
I would strike. the mob would turn to me.
The aura would puff and the mob would, before hitting me, turn back to the tank. I find both fiery aura and mudputs to be extremely effective. Can't comment on the others.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is exactly the effect i see playing my firetanky and stonetanky without much in taunt durations, with my icetanker and invuln i havent seen it.
I have teamed with tankers without taunt and I am always having to be less dps with my blaster.
Secondary effects or primaries and secondaries of a tanker set plus playstyle can negate need for taunt in alot of circumstances as can dark defenders,rad defenders, trick archery defenders (ah hell they negate a need for the tank!). I'll always prefer a tanker on team and with taunt.
Some tanks may level to 50 with the same types of defenders on the team, missing game content, having some enemy to fear and yet rate themselves as tank, as for me I'll be rating the defender and the rest of the team. Some defenders are so good I even taunt +lvl AV's with my scrapper and sometimes I probably dont even need to do it.
I advise tankers to build for all situations as best they can. You out of anyone on team providing you are taking aggro will be -acc,-spd,-dam,-def,-end etc and should be able to play without saying things like "we NEED a kinetic defender" or "we NEED a dark defender" as having anyone in a team should do, but saying that I am "We dont want another tanker!" when i tank.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
(I still firmly believe that a Tanker can hold all necessary aggro without Taunt, so I'm saying replacement for Tanker, not Taunt)
[/ QUOTE ]
How much aggro is 'all necessary aggro', half a spawn? The whole spawn? Can you hold all necessary aggro in all sensible circumstances? Can you hold all necessary aggro against all enemy type.
I have tanked multiple spawns ( one after another ) and possibly tanked entire missions without using taunt. However that was because they were missions where I didn't need a ranged taunt, perhaps had melee enemies with nice close spawns. Maybe I was on a team that let me get aggro and respected that. I do have a lovely big AoE ( Combustion ) to get aggro. You certainly can hold lots of aggro without touching the taunt key.
But against some enemy types, IMO an aura alone just doesn't work. Nemesis are a challenge for a tank, not because they are tough but because they have long aggro range AoE weapons that they use in preference to melee. Against Nemesis in a 8 man team, you better have a good tank with taunt or people are going to faceplant.
If I was to choose between a tank with taunt but who didn't know how to use it and a tank without who used his aura excessively well, I would go for the latter. But I would prefer a tank who used aura, taunt and punchvoke proficiently.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, on a large team I'm there's often a slim chance that there is a Controller or Defender, often negating any real need for Taunt.
[/ QUOTE ]
This often negates the need for a tanker too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Make the job easier for the Tanker (and the rest of team), definitely. Negate the 'need' for a Tanker? Not in my experience.
I've never been on a team where I didn't feel my Tankers have made a useful contribution. No matter how many heals, buffs, debuffs and control effects you have available, a Tanker is always handy.
Of course, my opinion is perhaps a little biased. 
[ QUOTE ]
I've never been on a team where I didn't feel my Tankers have made a useful contribution. No matter how many heals, buffs, debuffs and control effects you have available, a Tanker is always handy.
[/ QUOTE ]
The corollary to this is that, when playing anything bar a tanker on a team, I've always felt much safer with a tanker around (a proper tanker, that is). Controllers and Defenders just don't give that same Warm Fuzzy Feeling. 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a storm defender in a all-blaster group against predominatly melee mobs (if the stormer has hurricane)
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't agree with this:
Firstly the Blasters are going to be damaging them & hence drawing the aggro. So although you'd be able to survive against the melee mobs you won't be managing the aggro the way a decent tank can.
[/ QUOTE ]
you dont have to agree that the above method would work, I can only speak from experience that it does (against Tsoo)
The Stormer and blasters worked as a single unit where any aggroed mobs would run forward towards the player group just to be knockbacked by the hurricane and then be shot dead. The whole group worked as a single aggro manager, instead of leaving the task to a specific AT. I only mentioned the defender specifically as it was the cornerstone to making the tactics work.
It became so easy to clean the map it became dull..
But what do I know, it wasnt like I was there or anything. (lie)
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
[ QUOTE ]
Make the job easier for the Tanker (and the rest of team), definitely. Negate the 'need' for a Tanker? Not in my experience.
I've never been on a team where I didn't feel my Tankers have made a useful contribution. No matter how many heals, buffs, debuffs and control effects you have available, a Tanker is always handy.
Of course, my opinion is perhaps a little biased.
[/ QUOTE ]
just out of curiosity, Bridger. Do you have Taunt? or do you rely on the Area taunts?
I dont have taunt, and to be honest, rarely have i been in a situation where would i have had it had been useful. Well, except for pulling. I HAVE run into a few groups with blasters that have had absolutely no concept of "pulling".
So having taunt (or a ranged attack) would have made it less painful. But as to taunting mobs to help a teammate out that is in the red, that has been even more so rare.
Usually theyre halfway down a corridor running AWAY from me screaming "Heal plz!!" (and the empath) instead of towards me or the defender.
Having taunt wouldnt have made a difference in the first place since I wouldnt have been able to target the mobs anyway.
In closing, ive leveld to 50 and i have never had any complaints for not having taunt. (save one time, from a blaster who wanted to try out his Nova. And all he had to do for the rest of the mission was to wait 1-2 extra seconds for me to consolidate the aggro before he could shoot off his Nova, which he did)
I believe Taunt to be a good complement to a tanker build, but not needed and certainly not essential
Sometime i might use my last respec to put it in..
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, on a large team I'm there's often a slim chance that there is a Controller or Defender, often negating any real need for Taunt.
[/ QUOTE ]
This often negates the need for a tanker too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Make the job easier for the Tanker (and the rest of team), definitely. Negate the 'need' for a Tanker? Not in my experience.
I've never been on a team where I didn't feel my Tankers have made a useful contribution. No matter how many heals, buffs, debuffs and control effects you have available, a Tanker is always handy.
Of course, my opinion is perhaps a little biased.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know this wasnt directed at me at all but when I say negate i mean make one less necessary, playstyle changes however, playing any other toon but my tank i feel a lot safer with a tanker. I do find mind controllers pretty tasty with there mass confusion. Slap that on and then what is the tank for? all the little things from different ATs can add up and making do without a tank can be done.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Make the job easier for the Tanker (and the rest of team), definitely. Negate the 'need' for a Tanker? Not in my experience.
I've never been on a team where I didn't feel my Tankers have made a useful contribution. No matter how many heals, buffs, debuffs and control effects you have available, a Tanker is always handy.
Of course, my opinion is perhaps a little biased.
[/ QUOTE ]
just out of curiosity, Bridger. Do you have Taunt? or do you rely on the Area taunts?
I dont have taunt, and to be honest, rarely have i been in a situation where would i have had it had been useful. Well, except for pulling. I HAVE run into a few groups with blasters that have had absolutely no concept of "pulling".
So having taunt (or a ranged attack) would have made it less painful. But as to taunting mobs to help a teammate out that is in the red, that has been even more so rare.
Usually theyre halfway down a corridor running AWAY from me screaming "Heal plz!!" (and the empath) instead of towards me or the defender.
Having taunt wouldnt have made a difference in the first place since I wouldnt have been able to target the mobs anyway.
In closing, ive leveld to 50 and i have never had any complaints for not having taunt. (save one time, from a blaster who wanted to try out his Nova. And all he had to do for the rest of the mission was to wait 1-2 extra seconds for me to consolidate the aggro before he could shoot off his Nova, which he did)
I believe Taunt to be a good complement to a tanker build, but not needed and certainly not essential
Sometime i might use my last respec to put it in..
[/ QUOTE ]
ah ha so your officer cuffz! small world! i must admit the energy melee set seemed to offer nice disorients that can keep the enemy somewhat preoccupied for awhile. I've only teamed with ya on a couple of missions and a really good dark defender was on them and it all worked out fine, better than i expected in fact.
[ QUOTE ]
Well, except for pulling. I HAVE run into a few groups with blasters that have had absolutely no concept of "pulling".
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats a statement that i can "kind of make" because my blaster is very almost 50, but despite that, an obvious bad pull with an M30 grenade at its range can be judged as bad by anyone, and seeing one person pull a certain kind of enemy compared to another can also help. I for one as a tank wont put a blaster at any risk if i can so help it incase bad pulls happen. I personally hate pull and interceptions, i dont like messy anythings and I get very jealous if other peoples healthbars are moving.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(I still firmly believe that a Tanker can hold all necessary aggro without Taunt, so I'm saying replacement for Tanker, not Taunt)
[/ QUOTE ]
How much aggro is 'all necessary aggro', half a spawn? The whole spawn? Can you hold all necessary aggro in all sensible circumstances? Can you hold all necessary aggro against all enemy type.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, as an Inv Tanker, versus a mob consisting of largely Elemental/Energy and of fairly high-level my Defense is rendered useless, I'm currently sitting with ~25%-ish nrg/ele resistances. I'm not saying I'm face-planting constantly but I definetly do feel the sting from those types of damage.
[ QUOTE ]
I have tanked multiple spawns ( one after another ) and possibly tanked entire missions without using taunt. However that was because they were missions where I didn't need a ranged taunt, perhaps had melee enemies with nice close spawns. Maybe I was on a team that let me get aggro and respected that. I do have a lovely big AoE ( Combustion ) to get aggro. You certainly can hold lots of aggro without touching the taunt key.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, that's why I (so far) haven't picked up Taunt. I feel that my aggro managment is enough. I've also come across rather decent teams. They've never relied on a single tanker, or a single anything really, to pull the team together, it just happened on it's own.
[ QUOTE ]
But against some enemy types, IMO an aura alone just doesn't work. Nemesis are a challenge for a tank, not because they are tough but because they have long aggro range AoE weapons that they use in preference to melee. Against Nemesis in a 8 man team, you better have a good tank with taunt or people are going to faceplant.
[/ QUOTE ]
As long as they ain't dealing Nrg/Ele in loads I just dive in. I'm sure I can be a better tank, but it works for me ... and so far the team as well.
Truth told my Tanker hasn't faced Nemesis yet. So I'll guess that will be something I'll experience for myself. If I suddenly discover I absolutely must have Taunt I'll remember who gave me the heads up.
But then again, Taunt is at a 5 target cap, you won't get a whole mob on it. And since Invinc is useless at range, I would probably still try to dive in first.
[ QUOTE ]
If I was to choose between a tank with taunt but who didn't know how to use it and a tank without who used his aura excessively well, I would go for the latter. But I would prefer a tank who used aura, taunt and punchvoke proficiently.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course all three are handy tools. I'm just claiming that for some people (like me) Punch-voke and Invincibility is enough. Heck, if Invincibility was enough for some for 50 levels before Punch-voke was even in the game I can't be that gimped as a tanker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Make the job easier for the Tanker (and the rest of team), definitely. Negate the 'need' for a Tanker? Not in my experience.
I've never been on a team where I didn't feel my Tankers have made a useful contribution. No matter how many heals, buffs, debuffs and control effects you have available, a Tanker is always handy.
Of course, my opinion is perhaps a little biased.
[/ QUOTE ]
just out of curiosity, Bridger. Do you have Taunt? or do you rely on the Area taunts?
[/ QUOTE ]
I've played Tankers with and without Taunt. (Bearing in mind I played when Taunt was single target and Gauntlet didn't exist, I've also played Tankers with Provoke.)
As a rule, I find that Taunt makes my job easier, and helps me protect my team more effectively. These days, I doubt I'd build a Tanker without it. I've been in situations where I wished I had Taunt - I've never been in a situation where I wished I didn't.
That's just me, though.
[ QUOTE ]
non-damaging component (I'm thinking Mud Pots here) are autohit, and thus more reliable for holding aggro than the damage auras that need to roll to-hit in order to taunt.
The best aggro-holding aura in the game is Chilling Embrace without question, with Mud Pots and Invincibility after that. Blazing Aura would be 4th on the list (as the largest damage aura).
[/ QUOTE ]
mudpots does damage. I'm sure. I see damage ticks in my mudpots. The two without any damage component is invincible, and chilling embrace and i believe that invincible to have faster ticks of taunt. I believe invincible to have faster ticks of taunt because anything within my invincible aura doesnt turn its back for a split anything whereas all other tanker auras can turn just before the next damage tick with taunt unslotted. The tick time I have found with blazing aura and mudpots is about the same but the great thing about chilling embrace is the slow secondary so even if they were to about face they are too slow to do so.
not in reply:
Some groups are more spread than others and with ranged attacks awkward to herd. Combine that with team mates that attack a tad early, get within the perception range of straggler enemies or nearby groups you have a typical ingame scenario on outside maps. On an inside map 3 groups can be close enough for anyone of the three to see a member of team and a mass ambush can happen that no one can keep up with, well taunt can help to avoid all that.
Secondary effects of a tankers primaries and secondaries can combine with gauntlet to lessen the need for taunt but I still wouldnt make a tank without one it adds to my tanks independence to act like a tank to anything and not say things like "omg sapper! send the scrapper in" or "we need the blaster to pull here" or when someone says kite the AV for less damage I am not saying "I cant, I cant".
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.