A plea to all tankers


aaaARMSaaa_EU

 

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After testing this with a friend I am fairly confident that it is correct that the taunt component of a damaging aura can miss along with the damage.

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It doesn't miss, per se, but it does have a limit on the number of targets it can hit. Might be 5 per taunt tick, like the standard taunt.


DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.

Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!

 

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After testing this with a friend I am fairly confident that it is correct that the taunt component of a damaging aura can miss along with the damage.

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It doesn't miss, per se, but it does have a limit on the number of targets it can hit. Might be 5 per taunt tick, like the standard taunt.

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I think it would help for you to understand what Thunderforce is talking about here if you read back a few pages. Blazing Aura and Icicles (the two damage-only auras) definitely miss, and our testing shows that when they miss, they don't taunt.

Auras can hit more than 5 people. It's probably 10, but I've not specifically tested it.


 

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All this talk of slotting auras for taunt.. does anybody know what the effects are anyway? What's the ratio of taunted time vs. untaunted time by default?

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Without specific testing, it seems to me that the taunt lasts about as long as it takes to reach the next pulse against even con enemies, although noticeably less against higher cons. So it's pretty good unslotted, but not necessarily against +N enemies.

The difficulty in perception on this one is that I'm very rarely sitting there just using Blazing Aura to taunt, usually I chain attacks including Combustion which has a much longer Taunt duration.

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Assuming Burning Aura and autohit here, can 100% taunt time be achieved via any slotting?

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I slot 2 Acc, 1 Taunt and achieve excellent taunt coverage with just the Aura and melee attacks. I use Taunt and ancillary pool ranged attacks to cover those not in melee.

Were I not planning to be active with melee attacks, I'd slot 3 Taunt in the Aura for certain, and expect very good results. With 2 Acc, 3 Taunt it's more likely to be positional issues and multiple target limits that are the cap on your ability to manage melee aggro.

Although 1 Acc will cap your accuracy against basic even cons, it's worth slotting 2 Acc for higher level enemies, and where they have defense bonuses, which can often be quite large (e.g. Rikti Guardian force fields).

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While I'm thinking about it... does Ice Patch aggro?

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It doesn't appear to, although obviously it's an excellent crowd control tool in its own right.


 

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I don't have any firsthand experience with tanks in Co*, but let me point out the role of tankers from other mmorpgs : Take aggro, get bashed, die for your team if it's needed.
That's the point of a tank, the role of your team is to make sure you stay alive - if they fail that it's their own fault but do not try to get revenge and stop taunting.

I mean, when you make a tanker you must think you'll be the one AT that will collect the most debt, the one that will always be the last to leave the battle field, the one that will always have the most work, and if you do your job right the praises you get will make you forget any debt you might have aquired.

Sorry if it sounded like a rant, wasn't intended.


 

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Furthermore, we tested on crowds of fewer than 5 enemies. No doubt at all, really; pulse the Aura, MISS, my friend (who's watching closely) zaps the minion immediately, it makes a beeline for him and expresses annoyance.


 

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I don't have any firsthand experience with tanks in Co*, but let me point out the role of tankers from other mmorpgs : Take aggro, get bashed, die for your team if it's needed.

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Mmm, but one of the interesting things about CoX is that ATs (ie, pseudo-D&D character classes) aren't such rigid straitjackets as the equivalent mechanics are in most MMO*.

(Don't get me wrong - it was a fine mechanic in D&D - it just should not have been cloned unthinkingly. Whoever called single-player computer games with pseudo-D&D mechanics and no roleplaying "RPGs" has a lot to answer for.)

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I mean, when you make a tanker you must think you'll be the one AT that will collect the most debt

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I certainly don't think that. For one thing, you're bound to solo sometimes and you're the AT that gets into trouble the slowest.

Even on teams, the times I've deliberately gone down as a tanker... sure, it happens, but it's nothing on the times I've gotten a bit over my head as a blaster, or discovered once again that enemies don't like being fire controlled (BP Spirits of Pain are my personal nemesis there), or Siphoned stuff out of a boss to save my teammates and had it take me out anyway, or just forgot that scrappers aren't actually immortal (er, maybe that last one is my fault).

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the one that will always have the most work

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Try being an empath on an 8-man PUG in the Hollows. :-)


 

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Well as i said, don't have experience with Co* tankers, so i was talking in general, and the mentality of a tanker.

Being the one that gets most debt isn't bad, it's actually good because that means you fulfilled your role and saved your team. People need to learn to look out for others instead of always being self centered.

Ex: I have pff so if things get ugly i can just hop in it and i couldn't care less if i'm up against 10 AV's, but if a member of my team gets on low health ( note - even if i'm the current target for an enemy ) i drop my pff just to try and get a buff or two and maybe aid other in there, disregarding i'm on red health, immob, debuffed and already near debt cap :P


 

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After testing this with a friend I am fairly confident that it is correct that the taunt component of a damaging aura can miss along with the damage.

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It doesn't miss, per se, but it does have a limit on the number of targets it can hit. Might be 5 per taunt tick, like the standard taunt.

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I think it would help for you to understand what Thunderforce is talking about here if you read back a few pages...

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I'll definitely think before I try to help next time, thankyou.


DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.

Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!

 

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Being the one that gets most debt isn't bad, it's actually good because that means you fulfilled your role and saved your team. People need to learn to look out for others instead of always being self centered.

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If you as the Tank go down it's likely that at least one mob is still around and thus a threat to the team, so I would say on that occasion you - or more specifically your team as a whole - has failed.

I would consider success as everyone getting out alive. Except the enemy, obviously.


 

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Oops, might have expressed myself wrong in there, i meant : when you die so your team can escape if need be

Of course it's always much more fun if everyone survives, but unfortunately there are times when that's impossible even with a team full of good players ( we all make mistakes sometimes ).


 

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Oops, might have expressed myself wrong in there, i meant : when you die so your team can escape if need be

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Often I've found when tanking and the team is failing I would say run and hold them off. Tanks have lots of hitpoints and lose them slowly, so if you are in over your head you know and have lots of time to warn the team and then get out of Dodge. Of course if the team ignores your request to run, then there is a good chance you will have a team wipe.

Tankers are tough and from what I've heard need less support than their counterparts in other MMO games.


@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

 

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Take aggro, get bashed, die for your team if it's needed.

I mean, when you make a tanker you must think you'll be the one AT that will collect the most debt, the one that will always be the last to leave the battle field, the one that will always have the most work, and if you do your job right the praises you get will make you forget any debt you might have acquired.

Sorry if it sounded like a rant, wasn't intended.

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Not at all. My fire tankling is my first ever character, and on reading the forums, I factored death *into* her game strategy Two hastened heals, and hastened selfres, with the debt used to pack more missions into a level, and filling my contacts out evenly allowing me to generate missions for a team.

My little tankling *refuses* to die, viciously fighting tooth and nail, and when killed *refuses* to stay dead. I love her dearly

If I had the slots free, I'd be slotting Phoenix for disorient!!!


[i]If they get there first they'll make our dreams come true.
If we get there first we can stop them.[/i]

 

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a tanker wwithout taunt is like...erm...a tanker without taunt.

..ie a poor scrapper.


 

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a tanker wwithout taunt is like...erm...a tanker without taunt.

..ie a poor scrapper.

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As the owner of an L41 Invul/SS 'scranker' with no taunt, and an L42 Katana/Regen scrapper, I'm pretty much in agreement there. Only 2 things my tank is somewhat 'better' at - he can survive some powerful 'alpha' strikes that would one-shot the scrapper, and his PBAoE (foot stomp) can do decent damage to a lot of foes and knock them back, and it can sometimes even be a reasonable attention-grabber. Otherwise he's seriously second rate by comparison.


 

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I noticed in lower levels of having mudpots that enemy could run right by me through them plus in my aura they could turn around as if about to pop someone else and then get a slight tick of damage and turn around again.

With my blazing aura i had the same turning around business so to me the taunt effect unslotted is slightly less than the two seconds between damage ticks which coincides with what Hammerfall has said about gauntlet having a duration of 1.5 secs thereabouts. All this rings true to me.

About the possibility of missing well blazing aura and mudpots accept accuracy enhancements although afaik iirc mudpots is still thought to be autohit however in all cases?

Anyway so far to me mudpots and blazing aura could be just like anyother tanker attack whereby there is an inherent gauntlet and you can slot for taunt.

I tested gauntlet last night as i had to double check where i was getting the figure in my head from that i had from testing gauntlet weeks ago i did say in my post on gauntlet that "i think my personal gauntlet was such and such (15sec ) but it was a while ago when i tested it". Anyway the more the damaging attack the longer gauntlet seemed to of lasted although i didnt have an enemy stay with me any longer than 6 seconds or any less than 2 seconds. Now the gauntlet duration + foe action time and any secondary effect passed on from me may of lengthened the time the enemy stayed with me.

Then i tested secondary effect "ice patch". Now the tanker put the ice patch down without any taunt or anyone attacking and this meant the enemy got up and then went for tanker. Then the foe got ice patched again and i fired a weak shot at start of ice patch duration. When ice patch went the foe got up and went for tanker. Then we repeated and i shot just before the end of the ice patch duration in which case foe got up and went for me.

I dont do maths! or scour boards for figures but with damage, guantlet, taunt, secondary effect there "appears" to be some wicked maths involved whereby one overrides the other that says who gets the aggro. So far i know there is one when it comes to two people taunting the same body to as to why one would win.

At the end of the day it wont change the way i play my anyother toons but my tankers because with them i know to wait until tanker has reached a herd point and is tightly surrounded before attacking.

Do i think relying on gauntlets good enough no and never did but even less now.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

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Anyway so far to me mudpots and blazing aura could be just like anyother tanker attack whereby there is an inherent gauntlet and you can slot for taunt.

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My understanding is that Blazing Aura and Icicles work that way, but that Mudpots has an inherent Taunt (like Chilling Embrace and Invincibility) that's seperate from its damage component.

Again, I'm not 100% about this, but I'm pretty sure.


 

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Anyway so far to me mudpots and blazing aura could be just like anyother tanker attack whereby there is an inherent gauntlet and you can slot for taunt.

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My understanding is that Blazing Aura and Icicles work that way, but that Mudpots has an inherent Taunt (like Chilling Embrace and Invincibility) that's seperate from its damage component.

Again, I'm not 100% about this, but I'm pretty sure.

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I'll take ya word for it, ill also like ta squeeze out everything ya know!

so mudpots accuracy for damage but not taunt, blazing aura and icicles gauntlet, chilling embrace, invincible and mudpots autohit taunt. so icicles and chilling embrace no wonder the ice tanky is such an attention seeker.

Are taunt pulses of mudpots spaced out a bit cos i have had trolls run right through when i first got it?


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

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Anyway so far to me mudpots and blazing aura could be just like anyother tanker attack whereby there is an inherent gauntlet and you can slot for taunt.

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My understanding is that Blazing Aura and Icicles work that way, but that Mudpots has an inherent Taunt (like Chilling Embrace and Invincibility) that's seperate from its damage component.

Again, I'm not 100% about this, but I'm pretty sure.

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Mudpots has an inerhent Immobilize (low mag I assume). And it does tick away with some fire damage. So it works both ways. Immobilizied enemies do seem to follow the aura in most cases as well (from what I've seen).

Mudpots always seemed a bit quirky to me.


 

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Anyway so far to me mudpots and blazing aura could be just like anyother tanker attack whereby there is an inherent gauntlet and you can slot for taunt.

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My understanding is that Blazing Aura and Icicles work that way, but that Mudpots has an inherent Taunt (like Chilling Embrace and Invincibility) that's seperate from its damage component.

Again, I'm not 100% about this, but I'm pretty sure.

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From how I understood it, the taunt component in mudpots goes together with the slow debuff wich is auto hit, not with the damage, hence Mmudpots have auto hit taunt but can keep even more aggro due to the additional damage.
Ice tankers are attention seeker not because of Icicle(wich i've seen only on 1-2 ice tanks so far)but due to the huge taunt on Chilling Embrace, i have it unslotted and i can get aggro away from a +1 invuln tanker running Invuncibility..
That much taunt IMO it's because of the debuffs it gives, that are seen by the AI of the foes as very bad things


 

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Anyway so far to me mudpots and blazing aura could be just like anyother tanker attack whereby there is an inherent gauntlet and you can slot for taunt.

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My understanding is that Blazing Aura and Icicles work that way, but that Mudpots has an inherent Taunt (like Chilling Embrace and Invincibility) that's seperate from its damage component.

Again, I'm not 100% about this, but I'm pretty sure.

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From how I understood it, the taunt component in mudpots goes together with the slow debuff wich is auto hit, not with the damage, hence Mmudpots have auto hit taunt but can keep even more aggro due to the additional damage.
Ice tankers are attention seeker not because of Icicle(wich i've seen only on 1-2 ice tanks so far)but due to the huge taunt on Chilling Embrace, i have it unslotted and i can get aggro away from a +1 invuln tanker running Invuncibility..
That much taunt IMO it's because of the debuffs it gives, that are seen by the AI of the foes as very bad things

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The "Taunt" component of mudpots consists of this:
- Immobilize
- Slow (for those not immobilized)
- Fire Damage

When I used Mudpots (got to level 14 or so back on the US servers). It seemed like they were immobilized within the Mudpots Aura. This was before the AoE changes so most of my leveling between level 7-12 consisted of simple herding and AFKing in Perez. I could pick up a few mobs with Mudpots and they nicely followed me around.