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(although CE is much better than Taunt).
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If they take aggro away from you CE is nexty to useless cos the foes are already headed towards the squishy, to grab aggro away from squshy nothing can be compared to taunt.
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Doesn't happen, since CE slows the mob it will still be in the aoe for the next pulse, and as its a tanker taunt it will overide any amount of aggro.
Energy Absorption was the cournerstone of Ice when it buffed defence into the silly numbers pre issue 5. Now its been turned into just another end recovery power that increases your defence by a tiny amount.
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Sure, that tiny amount is like 25% of your total amount of defence, so let's give it up..Rofl
Taunt is unvaluable for mobs that have long ranged attacks(cabal and nemeses anyonme?)how can you hope to keep snipers taunted while not aggroing another group relying only on CE?
Cabals only have ranged attacks so CE is really hard to use and for them you need taunt unless you want every team mate to deal with some foes on their own.....
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(although CE is much better than Taunt).
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If they take aggro away from you CE is nexty to useless cos the foes are already headed towards the squishy, to grab aggro away from squshy nothing can be compared to taunt.
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Doesn't happen, since CE slows the mob it will still be in the aoe for the next pulse, and as its a tanker taunt it will overide any amount of aggro.
Energy Absorption was the cournerstone of Ice when it buffed defence into the silly numbers pre issue 5. Now its been turned into just another end recovery power that increases your defence by a tiny amount.
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Sure, that tiny amount is like 25% of your total amount of defence, so let's give it up..Rofl
Taunt is unvaluable for mobs that have long ranged attacks(cabal and nemeses anyonme?)how can you hope to keep snipers taunted while not aggroing another group relying only on CE?
Cabals only have ranged attacks so CE is really hard to use and for them you need taunt unless you want every team mate to deal with some foes on their own.....
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You use one of the key skills in tanking, hiding around the corner. Get there attention with embrace and then find any thing at all big enough to lose their LoS. Then when they bunch up, jump out and smash. If you warn your team your doing this and anyone's stupid enough to attack when your hiding they deserve to faceplant.
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Energy Absorption was the cournerstone of Ice when it buffed defence into the silly numbers pre issue 5. Now its been turned into just another end recovery power that increases your defence by a tiny amount.
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Sure, that tiny amount is like 25% of your total amount of defence, so let's give it up..Rofl
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ROFL! LMAO! Hrm, sorry got carried away.
Spad has an Ice Armor guide up at these very boards.
Energy Absorption gives (unslotted) a 0.5% Defense Buff per enemy in radius. This equates to a maximum of 7%. Unenhanced, of course. Enhanced it's a whooping 0.785% according to Spad's guide.
That's roughly equals 10.99% Defense if you hit 14 targets with it. That is pretty weak, IMHO... it is roughly 25% of an Ice Tankers total Defense. But still, negligable. Especially since you're upgrading it for about 4% extra Defense...
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That's roughly equals 10.99% Defense if you hit 14 targets with it. That is pretty weak, IMHO...
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If you can read, I said: 25% of your total amount of defence wich, with 41% maximum defence, is roughly 10.25%, wich is the amount that EA gives and is a good share of your damage mitigation.
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Not directed at anyone specific but if you have "taunt" the USE IT. And if one of the squishies cries out for you to use it as their health plummets redward then don't ignore them and keep on scranking. That makes you a rubbish tank imho
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The higher level you face the lower the duration of taunt. Gauntlet has a lower duration than taunt I have found and has even less chance of hitting (especially when acc debuffed) gauntlet always ftw? imo no. The duration of taunt in your aura has a lower duration than taunt. Without taunt and people using knockbacks you are constantly needing to round up and use gauntlet costing endurance (thats if you care about the rest of the team and have any end left). If the defender is dead we might all die and they can go down pretty fast (so i hear:P).
Sometimes in confined spaces (which if given a choice and opportunity I dont get in as thats not good tanking)If i am graphically blinded which is why i like people to target what hurts them so i can target taunt through them if need be(click on name and taunt).
Every toon of mine has to have atleast two "good" powers that can really save a team mate, even if it means having weaknesses.
Other people like defenders tend to kit themselves out mainly with primaries etc and leave themselves with poor self defence/soloability in order to help the team. I am only being fair in having taunt for extra aggro management, even if people think its overkill. Defenders can often be too busy concentrating on buffage to take in the whole scene and could run into trouble through no fault of their own (patrols) and they can die fairly quick.
At least taunt autohits, its guaranteed pve (unless fake nem with bubble up of course) and then i am like "dont make me chase you!"
Taunt costs no endurance which can help more towards team survivability and therefore my survivability even if i have no endurance (well i could be unstoppable for a reason and be sapped or just sapped). I think its good to keep people's toons alive when maybe just one person has made an easy mistake to make. But aggravating when I have told someone not to do something and they do it or when I dont expect a lvl 47 to make a mistake a lvl 6 would make.
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If you have an 8 man team on, say the Igneous missions in the Hollows, and a single tank... I'd certainly think twice (Three times even) about using it.
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Well cavern trials can be done with a single tank with no deaths needing to occur at all and a fight thru. Getting the team to cooperate with your sensible negotiating of the trial does matter as a complete idiot cant always be saved. I would not dream of tanking cavern trial or positron without taunt neither. Some ambush points arent worth getting into and pulling and herding is part of being a tanker.
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It should also be noted the taunt does not always work, and from my experience many blasters, defenders, dont seem to understand that they can and do take the agro away from the tank with aoe then moan when they say so why didnt you taunt them.
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Granted non auto hit taunt can miss but autohit taunt never misses now either the duration of your taunt can run out or the bubbled up fake nem or av like nemesis rex or illusion mistress can be unaffected to name a few. But on the rest of the game 99.9999% of it taunt works!
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As for the one that didn't, many Tanks don't like to use it. There are other tools for Taunting in the Tank sets (PBAoE auras mainly, along with the 'punchvoke' effect of the attacks and Gauntlet) and some Tanks find that enough. Not saying I agree (Far from it, I personally wouldn't consider building a Tank without it), but some people certainly do.
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It wont always be enough attacks can be slowed, endurance can run out and accuracy can be debuffed and like I said duration time of gauntlet aint great and the higher level you face the weaker it gets. Not having taunt is creating a limitation in doing your job as a tanker imo.
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I went through 40 lvls with a fire tank who didn't use taunt. Didn't need it, her fiery aura was more than enough.
I think I'm irked for two reasons, the first being completely ignored by the offending tank when I tried to explain that if he taunted I could lock down most of the mob.
The second being watching the team fragment into little groups and have individual battles. At one point I was left with 2 bosses and an LT all to myself whilst the tanks messed about with some minions.
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In a panic situation taunt decently slotted can correct that all enemies eyes will be on the tanker and hopefully lack of cones and aoes permitting any healing AT can simply worry about the tanker. As a tanker its not good to create this situation, I have seen tankers walk into large rooms so obviously for all to see and bring half of what they cant handle with them.
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Yeah, at level 16 I wouldn't consider taking taunt, and if I had it would only use it if I was fully buffed by a defender (preferably 2).
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Not trying to be bigheaded or anything I have taken taunt at lvl 4 wet ice at 6 followed by chilling embrace at lvl 8 putting myself on the line as much as possible and trying to remain standing is the job. The best tankers should make themselves the most likely to go down first imo whilst the team do everything they can to save them. However with reality and inexperience good outcomes cant always be had and few people care to stop and rethink how things could of gone better. A tanker going down is and should be a rare sight and taking one for a normally good team is not a bad thing. I die, good team but bad tanking? or bad team with good tanking ? the pendulum does swing for everyone.
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There is also the issue that prior to 22, assuming you want a travel power and stamina and to pick up a single extra attack ( the level 4 one ) you have only 5 choices left. With Ice, Inv and Stone these pretty much have to be from your primary or you are compromising on defence. Only Fire actually has a real choice ( whether to take consume, burn, taunt or a third attack ).
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Yeah its a question of priorites for most tanks other than fire really I got my first travel power at level 30 on my invuln, now its respecd in earlier but I have all that early stuff behind me anyway.
My must must haves are
Inv : Temporary Invulnerability , Dull Pain, Unyielding, Invincibility, Unstoppable
Fire : Fire Shield, Healing Flames, Plasma Shield, Blazing Aura, RotP
Ice : Frozen Armor, Chilling Embrace, Wet Ice, Hoarfrost, Glacial Armor, Hibernate
Stone : Rock Armor, Stone Skin, Earth's Embrace, Mud pots, Rooted, Crystal Armor, Brimstone Armor, Granite.
But I would not miss a primary anyway.
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If they take aggro away from you CE is nexty to useless cos the foes are already headed towards the squishy, to grab aggro away from squshy nothing can be compared to taunt.
I rolled a new tanker, an ice one, and I got Taunt at lvl 8(before the patch that switched the 3rd attack and taunt)and I've done fine up till now(lvl 21)without DOs and without SOs, simply because if you're taunting them, the buffer/debuffer/healer/whatever can focus on the foes around you or focus on healing you, hence more safety for all the team.
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Me and jiaozy did a nem mission together. Unkown to him. I was playing my blaster now he would herd up the nems into a nice tight bunch around him and taunt the furthest away, those just outside of his aura and I positioned myself to gain maximum coneage with my attacks Full Auto, Flamethrower and Buckshot. Now as I attacked 2 things can happen as my stealth unsuppresses; the snipers of other groups see me or one or two leaves the herd and comes to give me the smack down. I was safe with him as he only had to taunt my target (I target what comes for me to help) and he never had to lose his herd. With other tanks it could have been a question of do they have a ranged attack or not, and will it miss. The faster aggro is off me the sooner I get back to arresting and the less dead I am. Also with most other tanks i would of probably quit team. I could of easily of died even with jiaozy as with any tank had i not had the experience to know where to stand and when to attack. He was being a good tank and if i was complete idiot i would of been completely unsaveable which is why i dont even bother saving complete idiots.
[ QUOTE ][*]AoE's. As much as I'd like to be able to save you, if I'm tanking AoE capable mobs, and you stand next to me, you WILL get hurt. Don't tell me I'm not doing my job if you're in AoE radius of me while I'm working, and you plant.
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This is a common problem i feel. You should never hide behind a tanker or be next to one or you will get coned/aoed with everything.
[ QUOTE ][*]Herding. Sometimes the mobs don't follow you when you aggro them, through whatever means, but stay at range and shoot you from afar. Don't complain when I haven't been able to corral a bunch of attackers who are determined to stay at range into a nice neat nova-able group. The prime example being the Cabal, but there are others.
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Without something to get behind they wont group up near enough and unless you move away and unless they are still feeling the taunt they will follow you. Without positions to block yourself the best you can do is try to be the only one you are attacking.
[ QUOTE ][*]Malta. I am an Inv Tank. A solid hit from a sapper or two will toggle drop me. At that point I am jam, and useless as a tank. Accusing me of cowardice becuase I will not run into a mob which has more than one sapper without some kind of backup with me to take them out is just plain silly.
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Click unstoppable and wade on in! you may lose end but you only have to taunt! If you have it.
[ QUOTE ][*]Psi. Unless I am a stone tank, I have problems with Psi Damage. Do not expect me to be able to fend for myself properly against anything that has a massive psi-damage component.[*]Psi.
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Yeah!
All in all though some tanker melee sets do have other secondaries that make having taunt less of a necessity and a playstyle using the aura alone can be adopted but to cover the whole game and be a jack of all trades I wouldnt make a tank without it.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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That's roughly equals 10.99% Defense if you hit 14 targets with it. That is pretty weak, IMHO...
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If you can read, I said: 25% of your total amount of defence wich, with 41% maximum defence, is roughly 10.25%, wich is the amount that EA gives and is a good share of your damage mitigation.
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Yeah, ok, edited my post a bit. In retrospect I realise I wasn't clear enough.
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If we enter a mob first or attack any of the enemies, the mob's attention will go to us anyway, so really we don't need taunt.
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Right up to the moment where someone else hits the mob with an AoE at which point most of the mob will turn away from the tank and start on the offending and distinctly more fragile toon.
Punchvoke only works on the enemy you're currently hitting.
My blaster alt is a PvP build, and has no AoEs so I generally aim for the tank's target. Unfortunately my controller isn't a PvP specialist and I have AoE holds which I daren't use unless there's a handy corner I can hide behind right after I fire it off. Unless the tank has some means of holding all the agro - be it taunt or fiery aura or whatnot.
I'd like to point out I'm lvling a tank myself and am planning on taking taunt at 22nd lvl.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
hiya all
i took taunt with mt scrapper in the early lvls,just because i hate to chase runnin mobs.
also i use it to taunt mobs or whateva from the trollers,defenders and blasters wen in trouble.
but ive noticed that with my single aoe attack that i got i can agro more then a tank with his taunt!!![glad i got dull pain]
but whats a Tank for...?! he is supposed to take on the agro! so u got to build it to that. and use it like that in teams. best is to ask a scrap or blast in ur team atm to back u up[thats what the game is for,to keep an eye out for ya teamies]
me and my tank buddy for starters always do so wen we are on a team.
a tank can taunt!!! and must use it! the case is... the rest of the team must save him wen he gets in to trouble,but manny forget that during fights cause they think the tank will hold his own... BUT ITS A TEAM GAME<-- !! and even tanks need sum protection sumtimes. so if i was a tank and i didnt feel verry good in the team im on, i wouldnt taunt either,if im not garanteed the teams protection afterwards...
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Punchvoke only works on the enemy you're currently hitting.
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Not true. Single target Punchvoke hits up to 5 enemies near ( not sure how near ) the enemy you are hitting.
AoE punchvoke works on all the enemies you can hit.
It has naff duration but it does change so they target you.
I would never just rely on punchvoke and aura on my tank and he has fire secondary so holds aggro better than most.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
its wat tanks are for ...no point tankin if you dont hold aggro.
Kin Hell Fire
Barline
Bibbi.
Slushy Kins
Nuria Dark
I would be awkward and say that a tanks job is not to hold aggro but to keep aggro away from the rest of the team but that's another thread...
I don't get why you peeps are arguing over which taunting power to take...take them all damn it. If you have taunt, your PBAoE, gauntlet and anything else that can get aggro, you will do better than a tank of a similar skill level with only one of these choices. It's a bit of a pointless debate when there doesn't have to be a choice.
(...and if anyone says they would rather take some crappy attack instead of taunt I'll lightly hit them 
).
A tank without taunt is pushing the build very close to the scranker build. I have no problem with scrankers, but they must be recognised for what they are: scrappers who dont want to die!
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A tank without taunt is pushing the build very close to the scranker build. I have no problem with scrankers, but they must be recognised for what they are: low damage scrappers who dont want to die!
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Edited for accuracy 
Precisely.
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but ive noticed that with my single aoe attack that i got i can agro more then a tank with his taunt!!![glad i got dull pain]
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Your aoe attack can pull of a tanker whatevers outside his aura and whatevers not hit with taunt or enduring the taunt duration. Try using that aoe on a single target that the tank is constantly hitting nothing should come to you.
Scrapper taunt hits one target like snipe and like snipe can pull the rest of the group but the rest of the group remain untaunted despite coming for you.
Scrapper taunt is everybit as strong as tanker taunt on a single target and can pull off of a tanker. I dont suggest using it when a tanker is kiting an AV as it can cause a team wipe.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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If we enter a mob first or attack any of the enemies, the mob's attention will go to us anyway, so really we don't need taunt.
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Right up to the moment where someone else hits the mob with an AoE at which point most of the mob will turn away from the tank and start on the offending and distinctly more fragile toon.
Punchvoke only works on the enemy you're currently hitting.
My blaster alt is a PvP build, and has no AoEs so I generally aim for the tank's target. Unfortunately my controller isn't a PvP specialist and I have AoE holds which I daren't use unless there's a handy corner I can hide behind right after I fire it off. Unless the tank has some means of holding all the agro - be it taunt or fiery aura or whatnot.
I'd like to point out I'm lvling a tank myself and am planning on taking taunt at 22nd lvl.
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Punchvoke is not that good in spread groups, spread groups can end up being even more spread and splinter up due to team damage taunt. The aoe effect of a tankers aura isnt that big or of that great duration, which is why tankers that really like to keep hold of all the aggro hate knockbacks. Some groups are so spread and teams so pre-emptive (attack before tight herd up) I find myself moving towards the majority of numbers of enemy in close proximity to eachother to affect with my aura, using footstomp to affect whats just outside of my aura and taunt to affect whatever I miss, on pre-emptive teams I find myself having to attack less (unless footstomp) because I am constantly watching over the team for any aggro directed at them and using taunt. I dont think I am in the group must smash, I am in a group I must keep people from being hit.
Often I find that people effectively pass me by putting themselves closer to the enemies of another group, I am watching out for that too and that is also a reason i like to pull.
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I would be awkward and say that a tanks job is not to hold aggro but to keep aggro away from the rest of the team but that's another thread...
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If your not holding aggro someone else has it so your not keeping it from the rest of the team for me a tankers job is both just think of a tanker as a bodyguard.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
yeah i did mean hold aggro ...away from other players..its same thing,
fire/fire is only build realy that can get away with no taunt.
with taunt in fire arura.
but my tanks still got taunt as well.
Kin Hell Fire
Barline
Bibbi.
Slushy Kins
Nuria Dark
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yeah i did mean hold aggro ...away from other players..its same thing,
fire/fire is only build realy that can get away with no taunt.
with taunt in fire arura.
but my tanks still got taunt as well.
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Any primary has a taunt aura, it's not only Fire.
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fire/fire is only build realy that can get away with no taunt.
with taunt in fire arura.
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Any primary has a taunt aura, it's not only Fire.
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My perception (having played both kinds) is that the damaging taunt auras are more effective because, well, mobs don't like taking damage. Not that I would care to do without Taunt on a fire tanker, but someone who thinks the only possible fire build is fire/fire may see it differently.
What ever you say about tankies being able to hold aggro without taunt theres absolutely NO taunt aura that holds aggro if the enemies are even a bit farther from the tankie. So you get runners and the tank cant aggro them back without running after them thus risking loosing more aggro.
And what comes to this punchwoke, its always been there and its not very effetive and again it only works on those enemies that are in melee range.
Without taunt you CAN'T control aggro as effectively in wide range as you can with taunt. And that boys and girls is a fact.
I think that if you are tanker and you do not have Taunt you are not doing your work properly. Yes you can still be some use for the team, but not as usefull as you could be.
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
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fire/fire is only build realy that can get away with no taunt.
with taunt in fire arura.
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Any primary has a taunt aura, it's not only Fire.
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My perception (having played both kinds) is that the damaging taunt auras are more effective because, well, mobs don't like taking damage.
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Damaging taunt auras inflict damage which causes a mob to continue to have aggro on you after the actual taunt component has expired - if and only if you have inflicted the most damage to that mob. Since none of the damaging auras do much damage, this is rather unlikely in a teaming scenario.
Non-damaging taunt auras, or taunt auras with a non-damaging component (I'm thinking Mud Pots here) are autohit, and thus more reliable for holding aggro than the damage auras that need to roll to-hit in order to taunt.
The best aggro-holding aura in the game is Chilling Embrace without question, with Mud Pots and Invincibility after that. Blazing Aura would be 4th on the list (as the largest damage aura).
As the owner of a 50th level Fire/Fire, I totally disagree that a Fire/Fire tank doesn't need Taunt to hold aggro. It's true that the melee attacks (particularly the awesome Combustion) are generally more effective at melee range due to target limits on Taunt, but nothing beats the autohit/long duration/range combination of Taunt for anything other than pure melee/low enemy defense scenarios.
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I think that if you are tanker and you do not have Taunt you are not doing your work properly. Yes you can still be some use for the team, but not as usefull as you could be.
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I agree, with the note that I don't really expect Tanks to have Taunt until 16 or so.... based on reduced defenses and a more pressing need to get enough melee attacks to use Gauntlet effectively. At low levels I'm perfectly happy for a Tank to be holding say 50% of the aggro... once you hit mid-levels I'd like to see a tank holding "as much as possible" (80-100%).
Tanks are never going to be able to hold 100% of the aggro 100% of the time, nor are they designed to. But a 20+ tank without Taunt... no, not a very useful tank on a large team IMO.
yes yes fire/ watever has arura but i was talkin about my build.
Kin Hell Fire
Barline
Bibbi.
Slushy Kins
Nuria Dark
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What ever you say about tankies being able to hold aggro without taunt theres absolutely NO taunt aura that holds aggro if the enemies are even a bit farther from the tankie. So you get runners and the tank cant aggro them back without running after them thus risking loosing more aggro.
And what comes to this punchwoke, its always been there and its not very effetive and again it only works on those enemies that are in melee range.
Without taunt you CAN'T control aggro as effectively in wide range as you can with taunt. And that boys and girls is a fact.
I think that if you are tanker and you do not have Taunt you are not doing your work properly. Yes you can still be some use for the team, but not as usefull as you could be.
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Before I say anything, my opinion is you should have taunt you just don't 'need' it.
You talk about a tank like they should stand still and use taunt to bring people to them...This isn't how I work, I'm constantly running laps around the enemies making sure they all have the blue cloud around their waist without losing aggro. I only use taunt for annoying enemies I can't reach easily or if someone like a blaster runs into a mob first. If everyone cooperates the taunt isn't needed (handy to have though).
As for saying that a tank with taunt is better than without...that's like saying someone with 50 million is richer than someone with 40 million, who cares you still have a lot of aggro control.
Just wondering what is your AT?
P.S. I have the advantage of being an ice tank...chilling embrace and all that...
I must admit that its because of problems like this I am very wary of joining a pick up group. With people I know I have no problems with taunting (even as a fire tank) and managing aggro.