Villains underpowered in pvp.. or just whine ?
By
Afulia,
Posted on: 2006-01-31 05:32 in Everything about PvP
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
I like either to disable my enemies rendering them helpless, or to give massive dmg... (yes ive tried the stalker and the "high dps" all are talking about isnt there -_- or so it seems..) got a lvl 22 stalker and his AS is great! i luv it, but all the other skills seems pretty low dmg'ing. Also if you want a disabling Stalker it seems like you need an energi stalker AND I WONT DO THAT.. they are just so not stalker like imo :P but plz give me a little overview...
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I think you should try a ice/rad, ice/kin, ice/cold (or even ice/DM if that's your thing) corruptor. In your primary, you have decent and fast single-target damage, slow as a secondary effect on all your blasts, and 2 single-target immobs. In your secondary, you'll have lots of debuffs and some soft and hard controls.
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Stay away from dominatorss and defenders. Now, some people will jump and scream "But my dom/def is doing fine in pvp!". Yes, that's great, but the OP is asking about a "villain pvp god", not your personal success with a slightly underpowered AT (in regards to pvp).
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If dominators and defenders are underpowered lets beef them up a bit.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
have to put a side-note on the "good pvpers will say its all about skill" thing. Good pvpers say its about skill IF the builds are equivalent. Of course, builds are important, but skill is an equal factor. You cant give a non-pvper a great build and expect him to outlive a good pvper. Every build has its own weaknesses, therefore there are no 'bad' builds.
Btw, in your list, you forgot the ice/ice tanks and spines/dark scrappers. If you dont count those as a threat, you might be in for a surprise.
Last but not least, gotta disagree with the stay away from dom/def in pvp. All depends on the lvl where you pvp. For instance stalkers in warburg are not as big a threat as they are in bloody bay. Dont forget in team pvp, defenders can play a crucial role.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
I would never enter a team arena fight without a defender. Ever.
Y'know, there's those guys called... Controllers, who have, like, defenders primaries as secondaries, plus holds and other nifty stuff as primaries, and status protection in their epic.
The OP asked for something overpowered that can hold his own in 1v1 and teams. Yes, I'm sure your skills can make a spines/DA work alone regardless of the end problem, and a ice/ice tank or a emp/dark defender kill people 1v1, but that's not the point of this topic. 
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CoH/V isn't rocket science, you'll never beat a good (keyword: good) EM/SR stalker with a archery/fire blaster without tactics. Check the sig of some pvpers and you'll probably find many of what I'll list under, yet they'll say it's only skill that wins battles because it makes them feel good. 
Here's the ATs/powersets you should take a look at, if you want to have a noticeable pvp advantage.
EM/* stalker
Spines/* stalker
EM/DA brute
EM/stone brute (with tp)
ice/cold corruptor
ice/kin corruptor
ice/rad corruptor
merc/ff mastermind
merc/DM mastermind
*/storm controller
*/kin controller
*/ff controller
*/EM tanker
ice/eng blaster
elec/eng blaster
ice/elec blaster
spines/regen scrapper
Stay away from dominatorss and defenders. Now, some people will jump and scream "But my dom/def is doing fine in pvp!". Yes, that's great, but the OP is asking about a "villain pvp god", not your personal success with a slightly underpowered AT (in regards to pvp).
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HAW!! *points at sig* kin/nrg w00t 
(ignore fire/storm i suXx0rs with him honestly )
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I would never enter a team arena fight without a defender. Ever.
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Not even on full controller team?
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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Y'know, there's those guys called... Controllers, who have, like, defenders primaries as secondaries, plus holds and other nifty stuff as primaries, and status protection in their epic.
The OP asked for something overpowered that can hold his own in 1v1 and teams. Yes, I'm sure your skills can make a spines/DA work alone regardless of the end problem, and a ice/ice tank or a emp/dark defender kill people 1v1, but that's not the point of this topic.
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1) Controllers do not have dark miasma, which is probably one of the better Defender sets.
2) Controllers secondaries are around 75% as effective as Defender primaries
3) Defenders can fit more of their primaries into a build, whereas controllers have to work with their primaries as well as their secondaries
4) Controllers have more than one thing to concentrate on if they're buffing/debuffing AND controlling. Defenders do not.
Yes, a controller is probably hte most overpowered 1vs1, but I wouldn't discount Defenders simply because Controllers have the same sets.
Kinda like trying to say a defender makes a good blaster while defending.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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1) Controllers do not have dark miasma, which is probably one of the better Defender sets.
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Dark miasma is prolly underpowered in PvP
. It simply lacks dynamics. Its a fortifying set, and that tactic cant be used at the highest lvl of PvP.
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2) Controllers secondaries are around 75% as effective as Defender primaries
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83% on average Iirc. Some powers even work better (slows (Controllers AT modifier for Slows is higher than Defenders), stuns.. trollery stuff)
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3) Defenders can fit more of their primaries into a build, whereas controllers have to work with their primaries as well as their secondaries
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Matter of choice really.
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4) Controllers have more than one thing to concentrate on if they're buffing/debuffing AND controlling. Defenders do not.
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Trollers can play support too with an hold once in a while. Playstyle only.
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Yes, a controller is probably hte most overpowered 1vs1, but I wouldn't discount Defenders simply because Controllers have the same sets.
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Nor would I discount defenders. I would just say they arent uber, like trollers.
A Paragon Defender
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CoH/V isn't rocket science, you'll never beat a good (keyword: good) EM/SR stalker with a archery/fire blaster without tactics. Check the sig of some pvpers and you'll probably find many of what I'll list under, yet they'll say it's only skill that wins battles because it makes them feel good.
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Well like I have said in a lot of posts, its mostly skill. But build does matter alot, its what gives you an edge against others of equal skill. If skill didnt matter how come I can beat all the other ice / nrg blasters on defiant with no problems?, even those with builds close to my own.
I can beat most scrappers with my ice / nrg, but Nightbringer(ma/regen) gets me everytime. Is it his uber build? or is it because he is better than other the scrappers I have fought?. I say its an understanding of how the game works and how to bring the situation into his favour. Both our builds have been posted on these boards and people are free to use em.
Lecxe what is skill? For me an unexperinced player is the one who stands still after he has seen a blaster using BU and AIM comming straight to him. Lots of examples like this, its what makes the best players, the tweak the game into their favour. Attacking when its good for them and running when it isnt. Again it isnt rocket science but most people dont do it.
About your first builds, what about hot feet that will reveal the stalker. I say the money are on the Archery / fire blaster in warburg and later, if he makes a good build.
50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr
I'd strongly advise Brutes to run if they see a blaster coming at them with BU and Aim. You are about to be toggle dropped and hurled around like a rag doll, have a nice day.
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Y'know, there's those guys called... Controllers, who have, like, defenders primaries as secondaries, plus holds and other nifty stuff as primaries, and status protection in their epic.
The OP asked for something overpowered that can hold his own in 1v1 and teams. Yes, I'm sure your skills can make a spines/DA work alone regardless of the end problem, and a ice/ice tank or a emp/dark defender kill people 1v1, but that's not the point of this topic.
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As said before, the defender secondaries of controllers are weaker than the defender's primary. A secondary ALWAYS is weaker than a primary. Second of all with all the buffs and controls, its hard to focus on one thing. I always try to focus on primaries as they are just more effective than secondaries.
You're kinda confusing me with these 2 statements btw..
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The OP asked for something overpowered that can hold his own in 1v1 and teams.
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kill people 1v1, but that's not the point of this topic.
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So.. basically, you the OP wants to know a build that hold its own in 1v1 AND teams, but killing 1v1 is not the point of this topic? Might be my silly brain at work, but I dont see the logic in that statement at all.
Anyway, regardless of that. I dont play a spines/dark, nor have I got the intention to. However I DO know its a great pvp build. Sure, heavy on the blue stuff, but that can be overcome.
Ice/ice killing in 1 v 1? Hm... dunno how up to date you are with /ice, but it seriously lacks damage. Sure, i can kill 1v1 EVENTUALLY, but after the kill I think the rest of the zone already went to bed for it being 4/5 AM by then.
Anyway, back to the defender issue. Your comments kinda make me wonder if you ever played a controller vs defender, and if so, your controller could be the equivalent, buff-wise, of the defender? Of course not sacrificing his control ability. I have not met such a controller, however if you are, you must be the first I met.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
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I'd strongly advise Brutes to run if they see a blaster coming at them with BU and Aim. You are about to be toggle dropped and hurled around like a rag doll, have a nice day.
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I dunno, i think if I got 6 of my kinetic corrupter buddies to SB my granite up I would happily charge down said blaster. There must be a cap on SB though but I dont know what it is
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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I'd strongly advise Brutes to run if they see a blaster coming at them with BU and Aim. You are about to be toggle dropped and hurled around like a rag doll, have a nice day.
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I dunno, i think if I got 6 of my kinetic corrupter buddies to SB my granite up I would happily charge down said blaster. There must be a cap on SB though but I dont know what it is
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Well Stalk my ol' chum, I wouldn't hang around long enough to find out
hmm this topic got me thinking, and im currently sticking with my stalker getting him to lvl 20 (MA/Regen) then testing him in PvP.. go do the same with a Brute (Stone/Stone) <--- found that one to have a cool set, both considering damage 'n' procs, but also animations :P And then the Dominator, as there hardly are any and ive seen what a dominator can do with dominate activated.. OUCH! so gonna go with some (Grav/Ice) <-- probely. Maybe try out the MM aswell.. however im a little confused about them...
I'd just like to add that I think its pretty much just whine. They aren't underpowered. They just lack support classes in the PvP zones. How often do you actually see a corrupter or domi or even mm in there? although more MM are going it seems.
Heroes have controllers even though they lack defenders in pvp zones most of the time. Then again controllers are a pretty well rounded support class in PvP as well as PvE
I am hugely under powered....anti-nerf me! 
I think the reason there are so few, is that the majority of pvp done from villain side is by stalkers. The heros tend to be more varied and support each other more. The corruptors and dominators dont really turn up since they tend to be just seen as buff/control and then left to be murdered by the heros as the visable soft target.
Sadly I think this puts off a lot of corrs/doms from pvping much. Of course there arent many doms around in the first place, and I think they could probably do with be looked at a little.
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I think the reason there are so few, is that the majority of pvp done from villain side is by stalkers. The heros tend to be more varied and support each other more. The corruptors and dominators dont really turn up since they tend to be just seen as buff/control and then left to be murdered by the heros as the visable soft target.
Sadly I think this puts off a lot of corrs/doms from pvping much. Of course there arent many doms around in the first place, and I think they could probably do with be looked at a little
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Agree, everyone seems to want to be the tough cookie thats hard to take down or/and the dmg dealing type for that 'yay I rock' feeling.
Corrupters can fight me to a standstill, particularly Ice and Rad types, not really fought the others. Doms....I think I seen one in Bloody Bay once
My first instinct is to go for MMs, I find they're easier to take down, with the lowest HP of ALL archtypes in the game. Brutes come second with droppable toggles, I avoid Stalkers to my best ability.
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My first instinct is to go for MMs, I find they're easier to take down, with the lowest HP of ALL archtypes in the game. Brutes come second with droppable toggles, I avoid Stalkers to my best ability.
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My MM is a dream in PvE, fastest levelling character I have ever had. Easy to take on multiple bosses at ridiculous difficuty levels. Mobs just aren't very intelligent and almost always go for the pets.
In PvP any opponent would go straight for the MM and ignore the pets. Since they are so weak with zero defence and one very weak self heal that is targetted I honestly can't see any point in taking a MM into a PvP zone. It's likely to be little more than an exercise in futility.
No doubt someone will be along soon to tell me I'm wrong
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No doubt someone will be along soon to tell me I'm wrong
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Here I am to tell you that you are wrong
You're wrong!! And in sooooooo many ways!!11!!
Ok I admit my MM isnt at a lvl to pvp yet, but my blaster got killed by a MM once or twice..perhaps more.
If you can hit anyone with a hold type power/effect or de-buff them then your bots can chew them up quite happily
The main reason why I think my minions might suck in pvp is that on countless times Ive been running along, ordered them to attack and only then noticed that've got stuck on a wall/bus stop/sign..
Think my Brute holds up well in pvp even though she is not specically built for it.
Took 7 Heroe's to take me down last night and i took 3 of them with me!!
Also had a good rumble with a tank which ended in stalemate after about 15 minutes!!
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Villains underpowered in pvp.. or just whine ?
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Whine.
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I agree
Sorry, but I'm still reeling from doing pretty well with the PvP this evening; usually I spend the whole time face down or running to find someone to make me face down
Edit: Lecxe is right, build gives a huge advantage in PvP. One key thing is to try and have some kind of mezz with a decent duration. Unfortunatly for me (I pretty much always play squishies) these grow on trees.
IN MEMORIUM OF GAYBABY
CRUELY TAKEN FROM THIS WORLD WHILE SO YOUNG