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we (the pvp people)
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Thanks for the clue, you've saved me a lot of Stalking.
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**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
There seems to be a lot of blanket 'heroes are better' statements. This annoys me, especially when i hear it from level 18 villains in bloody bay, whining as they get ganked by a lev50 scrapper.
There is no way, of yet, to determine the best of the bunch, as even level 40 villains are a bucket load of enh behind the heroes, AND the fact people have been on average playing heroes far longer ( more experienced ), AND heroes atm have access to many more accolades that boost health, recovery, end, def, etc etc.
imo villains have a great potential for pvp;
1) Dominators - Mind/psi or Mind/EM eek! detoggle and holdtastic!
2) Corruptors - With the epics ( ie defences ) i'm sure my ice/kin corruptor can go toe to toe with a kinetic defender, or almost any other AT for that matter.
3) Brutes - Well with fury i feel most brutes will pwn. Especially granite ones.
4) MM's - OK, many MMs will suffer in pvp, however those with pff or similar will just pwn.
5) Stalkers - Squishy killers.
I'm not saying villains are more powerful. Far from it. I'm just saying, in time, im sure they'll level the playing field.
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There seems to be a lot of blanket 'heroes are better' statements.
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It annoys me as well. I've played both games and I really dont see how villains have a harder time of it than heroes. BTW. masterminds can still be fun in pvp and a useful team mamber to have around.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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In the end you can play a stalker and get easy kills which is why it can be an easy class to play in part but dont assume its just for n00bs as when the game is raised like all other AT's a Stalker has to raise their game also.
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He didnt say its the AT for PVP new people exclusively. What he says is that every beginner to PvPing in Co* will be taking a stalker as its the best AT for a beginner to learn the ropes around PvP zones. However a stalker in the hands of really skilled players like Stalk-obot,Hackit and Gimpy truly excel weather teamed or not and are good challenge.
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aye thats exactly how I meant it. People are overrating stalkers and for new players they are an easy way to learn the ropes of PvP. Of course until they find that one day where experienced PvPers enter the zone and they find out they are dead meat.
When I'm playin Duke in Sirens or BB, the stalkers I fought before come nowhere near me cause they know I'll rip em up. That leaves the experienced PvP stalkers and the "new" stalkers. The experienced ones got new tactics and know they shouldnt try to AS me as it simply wont work. The new ones keep trying to AS me, fail, pull out, go back in, try again, rinse and repeat till I finish the villain I was still fighting and decide to turn on the poor stalker.
Don't get me wrong, I know good pvp stalkers and some can just put up a good fight. However stalkers are overrated and a new player can easily use one to take out some unsuspecting pvpers who dont know how to battle stalkers.
Like I said, any AT can be good, it just depends on the player playing them.
Oh and crystalwolf.. damn your telekinesis! Fun to see how people didnt know ice melee got a hold however lol
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
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In the end you can play a stalker and get easy kills which is why it can be an easy class to play in part but dont assume its just for n00bs as when the game is raised like all other AT's a Stalker has to raise their game also.
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He didnt say its the AT for PVP new people exclusively. What he says is that every beginner to PvPing in Co* will be taking a stalker as its the best AT for a beginner to learn the ropes around PvP zones. However a stalker in the hands of really skilled players like Stalk-obot,Hackit and Gimpy truly excel weather teamed or not and are good challenge.
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aye thats exactly how I meant it. People are overrating stalkers and for new players they are an easy way to learn the ropes of PvP. Of course until they find that one day where experienced PvPers enter the zone and they find out they are dead meat.
When I'm playin Duke in Sirens or BB, the stalkers I fought before come nowhere near me cause they know I'll rip em up. That leaves the experienced PvP stalkers and the "new" stalkers. The experienced ones got new tactics and know they shouldnt try to AS me as it simply wont work. The new ones keep trying to AS me, fail, pull out, go back in, try again, rinse and repeat till I finish the villain I was still fighting and decide to turn on the poor stalker.
Don't get me wrong, I know good pvp stalkers and some can just put up a good fight. However stalkers are overrated and a new player can easily use one to take out some unsuspecting pvpers who dont know how to battle stalkers.
Like I said, any AT can be good, it just depends on the player playing them.
Oh and crystalwolf.. damn your telekinesis! Fun to see how people didnt know ice melee got a hold however lol
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Exactly
That said its good that the stalker hate threads are now subsiding as people are playing them for themselves and discovering their many flaws firsthand.
Ice tanks are a damn nuisance for stalkers to say the least and a good one is a killer, that said after spending some time practicing against one (a long time 
) I do now have a clear tactic against them, me and one other stalker can take them down pretty quickly now (still not easy though)
Is CE an autohit BTW? As i can AS through mudpots and other PBAOEs that need a tohit roll.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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2) Corruptors - With the epics ( ie defences ) i'm sure my ice/kin corruptor can go toe to toe with a kinetic defender, or almost any other AT for that matter.
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I'd be surprised if your Ice/Kin couldn't down a Regen Scrapper, Seri - with a breakfree or two, anyway.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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There seems to be a lot of blanket 'heroes are better' statements. This annoys me, especially when i hear it from level 18 villains in bloody bay, whining as they get ganked by a lev50 scrapper.
There is no way, of yet, to determine the best of the bunch, as even level 40 villains are a bucket load of enh behind the heroes, AND the fact people have been on average playing heroes far longer ( more experienced ), AND heroes atm have access to many more accolades that boost health, recovery, end, def, etc etc.
imo villains have a great potential for pvp;
1) Dominators - Mind/psi or Mind/EM eek! detoggle and holdtastic!
2) Corruptors - With the epics ( ie defences ) i'm sure my ice/kin corruptor can go toe to toe with a kinetic defender, or almost any other AT for that matter.
3) Brutes - Well with fury i feel most brutes will pwn. Especially granite ones.
4) MM's - OK, many MMs will suffer in pvp, however those with pff or similar will just pwn.
5) Stalkers - Squishy killers.
I'm not saying villains are more powerful. Far from it. I'm just saying, in time, im sure they'll level the playing field.
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i agree completely, many villains ccomplain and moan in pvp zones about things being unfair but i largely believe the imbalance to be down to experience. i believe a good player behind a villain can be deadly as i have seen with a few villains in sirens, although not many. for example the majority of ff masterminds simply sit in their pff letting their pets kill, when ff can be a deadly pvp set when it is actually used to its potential.
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I'd be surprised if your Ice/Kin couldn't down a Regen Scrapper, Seri - with a breakfree or two, anyway.
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Unfortunately, the Regen scrappers can get them too, although most think they don't need them 
... except hobo 
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
as far as i know CE is auto-hit yeah.. or I'm just lucky I never met the stalker that could AS through it 
Funny thing is that Ice PvE builds fare pretty well in PvP as well . Duke is not really a PvP build (yet some powers are tweaked to PvP) and not really a PvE build. I can imagine that Ice tanks with CE and icicles can be even more annoying to stalkers than just my mere CE (and ice patch..)
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
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as far as i know CE is auto-hit yeah.. or I'm just lucky I never met the stalker that could AS through it
Funny thing is that Ice PvE builds fare pretty well in PvP as well . Duke is not really a PvP build (yet some powers are tweaked to PvP) and not really a PvE build. I can imagine that Ice tanks with CE and icicles can be even more annoying to stalkers than just my mere CE (and ice patch..)
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we tp you out of ice patch
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Long live fast recharge times and timing when it comes to casting
Not that it will help much cause these days I tend to team with a kinetic and empath anyway (increase density + cm + fortitude ftw! 
)
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
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Long live fast recharge times and timing when it comes to casting
Not that it will help much cause these days I tend to team with a kinetic and empath anyway (increase density + cm + fortitude ftw! )
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As I do with my stone brute of course bring more into the equation changes all the dynamics and leaves an ice tank watching his backup getting killed over and over
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
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Its your ISPs fault
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aye thats exactly how I meant it. People are overrating stalkers and for new players they are an easy way to learn the ropes of PvP. Of course until they find that one day where experienced PvPers enter the zone and they find out they are dead meat.
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The problem is these players dont find out they are dead meat. They discover like new Marco Polo that the other players are exploiting cheating haxX0ring etc and a bunch of other excuses for their probably bad builds or tactics and inexperience which is only natural. Then they pile petitions asking the exploits to be removed such as tp foe,hurricane,tactics,yellow insps,googles, perception buffs and all the powers and everyone is left with brawl. And then once u start using brawl on auto and they see their toggles gone cause you have it 3 slotted with acc on auto they start complain more and give u abuse. Thats whats the most annoying thing about stalker villains out there (cause the majority of these comments comes from stalkers that cannot believe how they are seen or killed), not that there are not heroes that provide such abuse to other villains etc but the majority of new player base comes from CoV and occurances like this come from the other side. The usual PvPers show courtesy,good fun and always put up a good battle and some good and funny trashtalking sessions for the fun of it in the zones...*pokes gandrel and Gimpy*
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aye thats exactly how I meant it. People are overrating stalkers and for new players they are an easy way to learn the ropes of PvP. Of course until they find that one day where experienced PvPers enter the zone and they find out they are dead meat.
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The problem is these players dont find out they are dead meat. They discover like new Marco Polo that the other players are exploiting cheating haxX0ring etc and a bunch of other excuses for their probably bad builds or tactics and inexperience which is only natural. Then they pile petitions asking the exploits to be removed such as tp foe,hurricane,tactics,yellow insps,googles, perception buffs and all the powers and everyone is left with brawl. And then once u start using brawl on auto and they see their toggles gone cause you have it 3 slotted with acc on auto they start complain more and give u abuse. Thats whats the most annoying thing about stalker villains out there (cause the majority of these comments comes from stalkers that cannot believe how they are seen or killed), not that there are not heroes that provide such abuse to other villains etc but the majority of new player base comes from CoV and occurances like this come from the other side. The usual PvPers show courtesy,good fun and always put up a good battle and some good and funny trashtalking sessions for the fun of it in the zones...*pokes gandrel and Gimpy*
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its a pity, but I couldnt agree more with you there. When stalkers stay and fight, I just put brawl on auto to detoggle their mez protection, then watch em die as they keep getting knocked down thanks to ice patch and air superiority, while I hold em with freezing touch. They laugh at me when they see i mainly use brawl to attack them. Then call me haxx0r as they get detoggled and I decide to hand their [censored] over on a silver platter.
This attitude of people that cant stand that another build is better than theirs (heroes and villains alike, cause I cant stand the ZOMG!!1! Stalkers r so overpwrD!!! threads as well) is what ruins the PvP zones. The good and regular PvPers suck it up if they get defeated, and take all very lighthearted and know what theyre doing.
On the other side however, not everybody is a PvP regular and I agree (before we get THAT discussion) that you shouldnt be forced a PvP build if you go PvPing. However accept the fact that those who HAVE a PvP build will be better (buildwise) than you. Dont expect to go to a pvp zone to fight the heroes/villains there as you do in PvE.
Oh and I agree that trashtalking is all part of the fun, as long as you dont get abusive. Its fun standing in that corridor to the villain base in BB, while 10 villains decide to pound on you and all the turrets firing at you while you just do /em boombox on ice patch taunting them with "cmon you can do better than that!" while you hear them shouting on broadcast "get that friggin ice tank!!!".
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
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aye thats exactly how I meant it. People are overrating stalkers and for new players they are an easy way to learn the ropes of PvP. Of course until they find that one day where experienced PvPers enter the zone and they find out they are dead meat.
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The problem is these players dont find out they are dead meat. They discover like new Marco Polo that the other players are exploiting cheating haxX0ring etc and a bunch of other excuses for their probably bad builds or tactics and inexperience which is only natural. Then they pile petitions asking the exploits to be removed such as tp foe,hurricane,tactics,yellow insps,googles, perception buffs and all the powers and everyone is left with brawl. And then once u start using brawl on auto and they see their toggles gone cause you have it 3 slotted with acc on auto they start complain more and give u abuse. Thats whats the most annoying thing about stalker villains out there (cause the majority of these comments comes from stalkers that cannot believe how they are seen or killed), not that there are not heroes that provide such abuse to other villains etc but the majority of new player base comes from CoV and occurances like this come from the other side. The usual PvPers show courtesy,good fun and always put up a good battle and some good and funny trashtalking sessions for the fun of it in the zones...*pokes gandrel and Gimpy*
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its a pity, but I couldnt agree more with you there. When stalkers stay and fight, I just put brawl on auto to detoggle their mez protection, then watch em die as they keep getting knocked down thanks to ice patch and air superiority, while I hold em with freezing touch. They laugh at me when they see i mainly use brawl to attack them. Then call me haxx0r as they get detoggled and I decide to hand their [censored] over on a silver platter.
This attitude of people that cant stand that another build is better than theirs (heroes and villains alike, cause I cant stand the ZOMG!!1! Stalkers r so overpwrD!!! threads as well) is what ruins the PvP zones. The good and regular PvPers suck it up if they get defeated, and take all very lighthearted and know what theyre doing.
On the other side however, not everybody is a PvP regular and I agree (before we get THAT discussion) that you shouldnt be forced a PvP build if you go PvPing. However accept the fact that those who HAVE a PvP build will be better (buildwise) than you. Dont expect to go to a pvp zone to fight the heroes/villains there as you do in PvE.
Oh and I agree that trashtalking is all part of the fun, as long as you dont get abusive. Its fun standing in that corridor to the villain base in BB, while 10 villains decide to pound on you and all the turrets firing at you while you just do /em boombox on ice patch taunting them with "cmon you can do better than that!" while you hear them shouting on broadcast "get that friggin ice tank!!!".
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Heh, brawl is a two edged sword, I like nothing better when I am in a team of squishies and tell them to autobrawl an impudent tank, its amazing how many people dont know the detoggle affect of brawl.
Trashtalk I think is bette suited for the arena as then you ahve a captive audience and chances are know the people involved, my fear for trashtalk in the PVP zones is that if a newbie pvper comes in not knowing anyone it can seem quite uncomfortable to them and they may get the wrong idea.
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Only complaints I've made have been in regard to the dubious use of TP foe in Sirens call which is mostly down to Dev issues. TP'ing into drones from a safe zone is just wrong, if you are in a safe zone you shouldnt be able to fight nor be fought. My argument in that isnt so much the use of TP foe but the fact that it can be initiated from a safe zone and the argument on that is valid from both sides. The use of TP foe to tp people into unescapable objects, never happened to me but I've seen a few Villains do it to Heroes before again is just wrong but is purely a development issue again.
The only other complaint I have had and to which Tainted is mostly referring to in his post is my complaint about the use of Hurricane to pin people into unmoveable objects, such as Bus Stops containers etc by using tp foe. My argument is that it's not necessary to use those tactics to get kills and using it in that way unless you have tp is tantamount to creating a permanent hold which just isnt right. Now the counter argument is that its not a hold and you can fight back, however you cant really due to the large accuracy debuff that Hurricane has and if you are melee then its difficult to do it from that position. No issues with Hurricane or TP itself just a couple of ways in which each can be abused, the former is down to poor design but I still consider the latter to be an exploit. Interestingly enough though Ive only seen one controller use that tactic the others stormies such as Window Licker seem to fare very well in PvP without having to resort to that and dont feel the need to shout I pwn u n00bs in broadcast when they do kill you.Still the argument on that one is long and this thread isnt the appropriate place for this kind of discussion.
Most of what you hear in Broadcast is banter though and in good spirit which makes a really nice atmosphere in there. It would be sad to lose that and its nice to hear people across each side say things along the lines of 'what power did you use to kill me? 'Oh I used x to get you you made the mistake of doing this, what you need to do is this'. There are some really lovely people on both sides in this game and considering the state of some of the US servers at the moment we are lucky to have this kind of atmosphere on Defiant. Generally most people who PvP are quite considerate to their opponents and try to create a friendly and competetive gaming atmosphere. Of course there are those that will complain everytime they die but in the end of the day it could be that playing any competitive game just isnt right for them.
Oh and the reson why it always looks like its stalkers complaining is that the high majority of players in zone on the villain side are stalkers. The complaints would be no different im sure if there were more corruptors, masterminds etc in zone.
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its a pity, but I couldnt agree more with you there. When stalkers stay and fight, I just put brawl on auto to detoggle their mez protection
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Ahh, I knew */ninjitsu stalkers had something more after all! You won't knock their mez protection, as it's a clicky, not a toggle.
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Ahh, I knew */ninjitsu stalkers had something more after all! You won't knock their mez protection, as it's a clicky, not a toggle.
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Tbh i not bother with stalkers much since they pose no danger to me except obots stalkers which a pain. Usually i try deal with brawl with the brutes that are brave enough to step in hurricane. Is insane how useful brawl is when u set it on auto and have it 3 slotted for Acc
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Ahh, I knew */ninjitsu stalkers had something more after all! You won't knock their mez protection, as it's a clicky, not a toggle.
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Tbh i not bother with stalkers much since they pose no danger to me except obots stalkers which a pain. Usually i try deal with brawl with the brutes that are brave enough to step in hurricane. Is insane how useful brawl is when u set it on auto and have it 3 slotted for Acc
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Theres not much any melee character can do to your damn troller you humiliated my brute to such an extent it birthed my stalker
That said one of my fondest PVP memories was one shotting your troller with my brute in BB after ODing on inspirations I was so pleased I had finally managed to hit you through that damn hurricane lol.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
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Its your ISPs fault
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That said one of my fondest PVP memories was one shotting your troller with my brute in BB after ODing on inspirations I was so pleased I had finally managed to hit you through that damn hurricane lol.
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Damn lol!i still recall that night in BB...lol i think i saw your Brute's head explode from yellow insps overdose right after lol...funniest thing was i saw u coming and thought that if u are coming so eagerly something must be wrong..damn i should have fled lol...
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That said one of my fondest PVP memories was one shotting your troller with my brute in BB after ODing on inspirations I was so pleased I had finally managed to hit you through that damn hurricane lol.
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Damn lol!i still recall that night in BB...lol i think i saw your Brute's head explode from yellow insps overdose right after lol...funniest thing was i saw u coming and thought that if u are coming so eagerly something must be wrong..damn i should have fled lol...
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I took a load of reds too, I was on a (expensive) mission
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in reply to the pushing into objects with hurricane that doesnt give melee a chance.. maybe telekinesis shouldnt be used as well then? after all, that has the same effect and doesnt even require a bus stop for example to work. ZOMG! TELEKINESIS IS OVERPOWERED!! NERF! NERF!. *ahem*
and yeah, */nin stalkers mez protection is indeed a clicky, so I just use the oldfashioned "keep pummeling him" tactic
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
Okay, guys, I've had to remove a few posts from this thread. My apologies to anyone whose entirely innocent posts may have been caught up in this.
Can we all try to remember to take a deep breath and re-read our posts before hitting the 'submit' button, please? That applies to everyone, by the way.
In response to the original question, I really don't think there is a 'best' villain AT for PvP - so much depends on the player and the situation.
I do agree that, for solo PvP, Stalkers are an obvious choice - but that doesn't necessarily make them the 'best'.
Besides which, for me personally, solo PvP is nowhere near as much fun as teaming.
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Besides which, for me personally, solo PvP is nowhere near as much fun as teaming.
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yeah solo gets old real fast
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So you will have forgotten it by teatime then :P
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Huh what did i say?
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I keep a mental note of these things
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Its your fault
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