I agree 100% with what you are saying. The SG that I am in is just a small group of friends who like to game together. We have been gaming as a group now for about 5 years and there are only about 5 of us that play CoH & CoV.
This causes us problems when it comes to getting a base up and running. Our base currently has 3 rooms and has no IoP or Power Generation. As it takes so much to even get a workbench, power and SG computer up and running I unfortunately cannot see us getting this lot for a VERY long time.
It all fine and well for SG's that have 30-40 members but for the smaller SG's it will become quite tiresome. Surely there must be a way to make it fairer on the smaller SG's. I was thinking about this just now and came up with the idea that there should be an SG size to base cost ratio. Instead of a room costing every SG say 300k it would cost the smaller SG's 100k with a gradual increase in cost the larger the SG. That would make the gameplay fairer for everyone.
On a good day with all of us gaming for say 5 hours we could probably get maybe 10k of prestige. There lies the problem. As we all work and have lives outside of the game the chances of us getting a fully working base is looking more bleak.
The devs have to do something to make this fairer.
Two of us as it for less than three hours managed to pull in around 10k of prestige. Three of us have pulled in about half the total earned prestige and we're just about to get the workshop - that's in three weeks. I personally have earned enough to almost buy the workshop myself. Imagine if you and your four friends were doing the same - that's be half a million. And trust me, that's not powergaming, that's playing maybe 10-15 hours a week. Given that this is a game that's been running for over eighteen months I feel a base isn't something you have knocked up within a couple of weeks, but something you're always working to improve.
My issue comes from opening you base to raids - where all your expensive equipment can be smashed. After spending months putting it all together, why would you want to let some other SG pull it all apart?
And this could be abused. With one SG launching a raid on another with the intent of smashing as much of their kit as possible.
After a couple of these hugely expensive raids will that SG still think it's worth defending the IoP?
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
I know what you mean, but I don't think the prices should come down too much, it's supposed to take a while for you to get a good base - after all, the game hasn't been out that long yet (what, like 2 weeks now?).
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Instead of a room costing every SG say 300k it would cost the smaller SG's 100k with a gradual increase in cost the larger the SG. That would make the gameplay fairer for everyone.
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It's a nice idea, but far to open to exploit. My SG could save up for a while, then kick every member but one and build the base at discount prices, then reinvite everyone.
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I feel a base isn't something you have knocked up within a couple of weeks, but something you're always working to improve.
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Exactly, a base IS something you're always working to improve... look how much more huge, secure complexes cost than the smallest plot.
I don't want a huge complex - I haven't earned it.
But I have earned the right to what I PAID for. All I want is a functional base. Tiny, but functional. I, and other casual players and members of small supergroups deserve that.
And I can't play 10-15 hours a week. It's more like 5 hours. Max.
As I've said before, I'm doing a degree. (And I don't mean the student-ey 'get Cs and drink/game', I mean, try to get As) :P
I'm in Villain SG of 3 of us.. we play irregularly cause all of us work and the other two share their computeres with other house members.
We been at it for ages and still can't even afford a plot - let alone the first room
This must be your 4th or 5th post now shimmer and its getting very boring. The games only been out 2 weeks or so and youve already found lots of time away from your busy university life to post on the forums!
You say:
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I'm not asking to have ANY secure items, I'm not asking to have an item of power, I'm not asking for base raids - all I'm asking for is the smallest plot, with basic, functional (ie control/power/workbench) base which I paid for.
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My SG had these items after about 1 week and a half. Its grown in size but lets say the average over that first week was 20 members.
That means if your SG has only 5 members, itll only take you 6 weeks to get the base you want. Why dont you think of it as something to work towards?? After all once you get it im sure youll be very bored very fast of just a bunch of rooms that do nothing. ( all the workbench does is allow you to make items from salvage that cost even more prestige to place in the base ).
Dont tell me you paid 150 dollars just to make a base? You shouldve just bought the sims!
Bases are for hard-core gamers who want something to do once they reach max lvl, if they reduced the prices they would simply devalue all bases and reduce the longevity of CoV for all of us. I for one dont want that to happen.
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... gamers who want something to do once they reach max lvl ...
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Yup, that's the impression I get. Bases are there more for people who have hit the cap.
So you play CoH for 5 hours a week?
You're in a tiny SG?
And after 2 weeks you CAN'T afford a fully functional base.
In a word, "Tough."
The bases are very obviously not designed for the benefit of the casual player (which 5 hours a week qualifies you as). There's no way you could get involved in capturing or defending items of power.
But maybe you could build yourself a teleport chamber for flicking around the map *slightly* quicker. Maybe a medical chamber - although I've no idea why you'd want one.
But if you go with the tp chamber - at your current rate you might get it within 4 months.
So what?
I've been playing around that long, my main has just reached 40 and that means I *STILL* can't have a PB or WS character. How unfair is that?
The more time that passes the less annoyed I become at the price of things as I see how much prestige you can earn when you put your mind to it.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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My SG had these items after about 1 week and a half. Its grown in size but lets say the average over that first week was 20 members.
That means if your SG has only 5 members, itll only take you 6 weeks to get the base you want.
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Um, your SG started off with 200k more prestige than hers did.
I've stopped collecting Prestige on my main, it is literally uneconomic. The SG has enough Prestige to create a one room decorative base and recreate it as needed. Having more Prestige just means more rent. I'll never be able to afford anything functional, so there seems no point in increasing Prestige only to have it dribble away on rent.
Bases were a feature of CoV I was looking forward to, as with so many things about CoH/V, it turned out to be a damp squib. Now I'm looking forward to these character houses. I'm not sure how Cryptic can make them totally uninteresting, but I suspect they'll find a way. OTOH, if they don't make it into the next Issue, I probably won't be around to find out how they messed them up.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Innigo - helpful comments there. If you actually read her post she doesnt WANT items of power or raids or a fully functional super delux military defended base. The prices are extortionate and an artificial way to extend the game with hours of grinding.
not a casual gamer(from your post it seems that way), playing for months and only 40 and still cant have a PB or WS - Tough, see how helpful that is?
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Um, your SG started off with 200k more prestige than hers did.
[/ QUOTE ]And their SG can get that too if they have few alts to put in the SG.
What they need to change - at least in my opinion - is the price the SG has to pay for the least functional base - that is needed to work with salvage.
If my sources are correct that would be 910.000 prestige now.
(Standard plot, Energy, Control, first workbench plus according rooms)
This should definitely be lowered.
If (and this is a big IF!) the Devs don't want to change the overall prices for bigger and more functional bases they could then raise the prices for the more advanced equipment - e.g. the andvanced worktables...
This would make the start more easier - and enjoyable - for small groups., but would change nothing for larger super groups...
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Innigo - helpful comments there. If you actually read her post she doesnt WANT items of power or raids or a fully functional super delux military defended base. The prices are extortionate and an artificial way to extend the game with hours of grinding.
not a casual gamer(from your post it seems that way), playing for months and only 40 and still cant have a PB or WS - Tough, see how helpful that is?
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The point is, I know it's tough which is why you won't find me bleating about it in any posts in here. And as for the playing for months and only lvl40 comment. What's that supposed to mean? If you'd read my posts, I said I played about 10-15 hours a week, racked up about 300 on my main over about 4 months. Does that make me a casual player, a commited one or something in between. I neither know, nor care.
What I do is that the all singing, all dancing bases are NOT for one person sitting on their lomesome in their very on SG.
You want to do that then it's going to be one room with some stuff in it for a VERY long time and that's how the game works in terms of bases.
Simply put, it's geared towards the big, active SGs. But no matter what the devs did, someone would lose out. Had they geared it to the smaller SGs then the bigger SGs would quickly find themselves with nothing left to do to their base.
But my parting shot is this; ppl are perfectly willing to spend 300-500 hours getting their toon to 50th. Why are some of them so unwilling to spend part of that time developing a base?
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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This must be your 4th or 5th post now shimmer and its getting very boring.
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Then don't read them? Also I'd appreciate if you wouldn't flame me.
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The games only been out 2 weeks or so and youve already found lots of time away from your busy university life to post on the forums!
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20 minutes. In total. How much prestige could I have earnt in that time??
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My SG had these items after about 1 week and a half. Its grown in size but lets say the average over that first week was 20 members.
That means if your SG has only 5 members, itll only take you 6 weeks to get the base you want.
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No, it doesn't. Our supergroup has 3 active members, all who have little time to play.
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Why dont you think of it as something to work towards?? After all once you get it im sure youll be very bored very fast of just a bunch of rooms that do nothing. ( all the workbench does is allow you to make items from salvage that cost even more prestige to place in the base ).
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Uhm, because not having these rooms discourages people from joining smaller supergroups?
Because I want salvage to have a purpose?
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Dont tell me you paid 150 dollars just to make a base? You shouldve just bought the sims!
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I'd appreciate if you would desist from flaming me just because I voice my opinions on an aspect of the game I find unfair. Of course I didn't just buy the game for bases, I've had the game since EU beta.
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Bases are for hard-core gamers who want something to do once they reach max lvl, if they reduced the prices they would simply devalue all bases and reduce the longevity of CoV for all of us. I for one dont want that to happen.
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So because you're a hardcore gamer, people who pay the same perfectly good money should be excluded? I doubt you would say the same if you were a casual gamer. Not everyone has the time or the inclination to spend lots of time playing. But everyone PAID for a base.
Bases don't really extend the game at all! They don't provde any new missions or new enemies! All they do is give you a goal to grind towards, and even if the smaller supergroups had the minimum functions of a base, larger supergroups could still work towards having a huge secure complex with choke points and items of power!
I used to be a hardcore gamer (8 hours a day or more for months) but it shocks me how people can be so selfish when most of the people who play City of Heroes are casual gamers!!
I think the prices are reasonble but the rent should be very low. My SG has 3 members and we wont be able to pay the rent of a big base even if we get enough prestige to by it.
I am hoping to have a functional base around the end of december as I earn around 2k/hour depending on the type of enemies.
I'm sorry Shimmer but it sounds to me like you want your cake and to eat it. No offense.
You want to have your small SG, presumably you have editing rights. So you want to have a functional base, that you're in (joint) charge of, and it's easy to get.
Unfortunately you can't have all three. Pick any two.
And honestly, I don't see any problem with that.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
Why is it that nearly every thread discussing the two main new features of CoV devolves into childish insults just because some people happen to disagree with the post?
Honestly, if you can't post in an intelligent, mature, and constructive manner, don't bother.
There was no insult and I was trying to be constructive.
Maybe you could try following your own advice.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
How about implementing something like this. Lower the overall price of the base items and then make the items cost a bit more for larger SGs.
10 members: Item X = 10000 prestige
15 members: Item X = 12000 prestige
20 members: Item X = 14000 prestige
Not sure about the numbers but you get the basic idea.
That way smaller SG could keep up with the base building a bit easier and larger SGs still would have a advantage of SG members making more prestige and so getting stuff a bit faster.
Bad thing in this would be that you wouldnt want to keep all your alts in SG because it would make the items more expesive. But hey. Cant have it all 
I think that the rate you are able to build base in largish SG is just fine. Base is not something you should be able to build in month or even two. Big fully functional base with all the nice gadgets should be something that you really have to work for.
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
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How about implementing something like this. Lower the overall price of the base items and then make the items cost a bit more for larger SGs.
10 members: Item X = 10000 prestige
15 members: Item X = 12000 prestige
20 members: Item X = 14000 prestige
Not sure about the numbers but you get the basic idea.
That way smaller SG could keep up with the base building a bit easier and larger SGs still would have a advantage of SG members making more prestige and so getting stuff a bit faster.
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But that would be so easy to abuse UNLESS the multiplier was retroactive and updated as the membership changed, and I can see that going well.
"Oi! What happened to the mainframe"
"Well, since Nigel joined we can no longer afford it."
I still think the best way is to simply up the new membership bonus from 15k to something around 50k, or maybe 100k and raise the cap to maybe 750k. That way getting a functional base *should* be relatively easy, but getting all the bells and whistles will still be a huge drama for the smaller SGs.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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There was no insult and I was trying to be constructive.
Maybe you could try following your own advice.
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Saying something is "tough" is not constructive.
Bases, for those of us who aren't in large SGs and don't choose to spend several hours a day gathering Prestige, are unaffordable. The loss of Influence for such small amounts of Prestige when compared to the cost of items which are purely decorative is simply uneconomical.
First Icon, now the non-functional base item costs. Why do things which have no effect on gameplay whatsoever need to cost so much?
The thing I've noticed is that prestige isn't balanced for existing Supergroups, it's balanced for new ones.
So it assumes that you will have members levelling from the low levels to the high ones in SG mode and gaining large amounts of Prestige.
I think some of our SG members in CoV have somewhere in the region of 100k prestige at the mid to high 20s.
I imagine the base is balanced so that a super-team of 8 regular active players would have a small functional base by the mid twenties.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
Maybe saying *tough* isn't contructive, but it's an aspect of the game. Like saying, I want to get to 50th lvl within a few weeks, but I don't play much so why's that fair?
That's the nature of the game. Getting to 50th lvl is an endevour, as is building a base.
Rather than looking at it as a new feature in an existing game, consider it as part of a new game. You start out at lvl 1, you do your running about and get to lvl 10, maybe by then you've got a few people you run about with so you all start an SG together and start earning prestige, maybe by lvl20-25 you've got the bare bones, by lvl30 you've got some of the extras and by the high 30's you've got enough to start raiding.
Big commitment I admit, but so is simply getting a toon through the lvls.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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The thing I've noticed is that prestige isn't balanced for existing Supergroups, it's balanced for new ones.
So it assumes that you will have members levelling from the low levels to the high ones in SG mode and gaining large amounts of Prestige.
I think some of our SG members in CoV have somewhere in the region of 100k prestige at the mid to high 20s.
I imagine the base is balanced so that a super-team of 8 regular active players would have a small functional base by the mid twenties.
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Yes they took a far too simplistic look at how to give prestige for existing groups.
I think it would be fair to say that most people in a SG that are made aware that you might as well be in SG mode from joining to 25 would do so. As you say this can be in excess of 100k prestige.
At the other end of the scale inf becomes pretty useless around level 40. So 10 levels of prestige there as well would have been fair and of course you can play beyond 50.
So to simplify work out on the amount of influence earned for a player so far. They have this figure it is used to award inf badges, doesn't include donated inf or enhancements sold.
Work out how much inf generally per level, scale for prestige, take a break between 25 and 40. Hopefully they have some data on what levels you were in when in SGs. Otherwise just make it current SG and you joined at level 10.
That to me is very very light data mining. But of course ignores the fact that they didn't want heroes to be ahead of villains. But as they have put old heroes behind in practice anyway, I am happy to ignore that goal in the same way they have.
The amount of prestige non-secure items cost is ridiculous, as is the fact that the dozens and dozens of player complainst have not been adressed once.
Personally, I would've earnt a lot more prestige in the past than I do now; I used to play 8-10 hours a day - but now I'm at University so I have very little time to game. My supergroup has also decreased in size a lot in the past because of my lack of involvement (I was never online, and noone else kept it going by inviting new people)
People who can't play all day and who aren't in a big supergroup can't take advantage of features of the game THEY PAID FOR.
Ridiculous.
I don't want to be in a big supergroup.
I can't play all day - I'm doing a degree.
I'm not asking to have ANY secure items, I'm not asking to have an item of power, I'm not asking for base raids - all I'm asking for is the smallest plot, with basic, functional (ie control/power/workbench) base which I paid for.
This is not too much to ask. I've spent about 150 in buying City of Heroes, City of Villains and paying the subscription for it. I'm sure many others are the same.
Yet we continue to be ignored.
I know you have to put a lot of effort in to have a huge complex.
I KNOW you can't expect to have an item of power and base raids from day one, even month one.
All I want is a tiny base with very basic functions. I'm a normal player - I spend my day working and when I have the time, I like to play City of Heroes, but I expect to have access to features I paid for, and like the other normal players, I'm being ignored.