DrRock

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i dont think so. I am still learning how to use herobuilder (editing powers and such, and i do edit them cos they can be wrong!) It was only a couple of months ago when i got Raziel to send me his version of it, i couldnt get elec brutes and such and didnt know about my config settings. It pays to really get into herobuilder and look at the figures closely. It also pays to look at your sustainable damage program as well and try to combine the two. But anyone can see that their endurance starts dropping more dramatically when they start fighting.

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I was tempted to do a character builder, just because the existing ones are a bit ugly. But I don't have the time and it would be reinventing the wheel a lot. The number gathering alone would depress me. Plus I see Red Tomax is building one, which I have no doubt will be the dogs danglies, as everything he does seem to have a certain flair.

As I don't play anymore, I wouldn't want to commit too much more effort, as the maths isn't going to keep me interested forever.

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I dont really do Maths, i keep saying that cos its true. I didnt know what an attack chain was till Katalina was level 49 (this is my first game ever) and have in an attempt to have a go at min/maxxing (cos it looked interesting) have gone some way on microsoft excel with my own way of looking at builds (mainly tanks) enough to find figures that make tanker secondaries look so balanced its unreal. Gash, chop, beheader, cleave, jab, punch, haymaker, knockout blow, bash, pulverise, jawbreaker, shatter, stonefist, stone mallet, heavy mallet, seismic smash and greater ice sword are basically all the same repackaged power to me and by comparing /axe to /mace you could probably work out how much the disorient is worth in endurance points. When someone said spines is aoe king i worked out how much damage over area spines covered over time compared to claws before thinking yeah i agree.

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That sounds like quite a bit of maths, by normal standards, which is probably why people don't believe you.

As for the powers, yes everything in Co* is very formulaic, from the powers to the enemies. A design decision was obviously made early on to go for very simplistic, ATs, damage scaling, level scaling etc. Which makes it a very easy game to get in to, it unfortunately doesn't add a lot of depth or player uniqueness.

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Anyway i decided whoever makes the powers is a very clever so and so, figured i was searching for "the holy grail" as i dont have the specs for the enemies we fight, what exactly all the parameters that govern balance actually are and decided to just enjoy the game and give up cos i aint good at maths anyway and with only 6 slots to apply to attacks something is always going to be an issue.

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It is probably the best policy.

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From what I see, if she uses the same one I have (which I sent her a copy of), it has a Attack Chain Planner with EPS stats on it, where you can plan the attack chain as you want it, based on variables you specific.

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I don't have much use for guides myself, but that does sound like a nice feature.

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Surprisingly enough, Shan' hardly uses a Hero Builder LoL .. she's a maths chick.. =D .. gotta love her for it.

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I had guessed as much, did sound like Hero Builder was only being used for confirmation.

Nicely done , how much of that does HeroBuilder do for you?

I should point out I didn't say put them on the attack you use most often. More a combination of the endurance * how often you intend to use it. Which is effectively what you are doing with your attack chain.

Assuming Herobuilder allows you to specify an attack chain then tells you the EPS for it, there is no reason why it couldn't suggest where to put the next endurance slot as well. Out of interest does it?

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Then bear in mind that each additional end redux lowers the endurance of a power less and less.

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Although that is correct, it is not the same as saying you get less benefit from each additional enhancement (putting ED aside).

For simplicity lets say a SO gave a 30% reduction.

Endurance:

0 SOs : 20
1 SO : 20 * 1/1.3 = 15.38
2 SOs : 20 * 1/1.6 = 12.5

It would appear that the reduction from 1 SO to 2 is smaller, but if you has 200 endurance to use:

0 SOs : 200 / 20 = 10 usages
1 SO : 200 / 15.38 = 13 usages
2 SOs : 200 / 12.5 = 16 usages

So you do get the same benefit from each enhancement.

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Its better to look at other powers in your build and add an end slot than to start immediately 3 slotting toggles to get a overall economical build.

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Where you put those slots should really be based on how much endurance the power uses, and how often you intend to use it.

Put 3 x Recharge, 3 x Taunt in your Taunt power and you won't need anything else, other than your AoE. No missing, no endurance and you can stack them up on an AV and even have a short risk free snooze in Hibernation.

http://boards.cityofvillains.com/sho...Number=4754304

First page is good for healing etc, try page 5 for AT equivalents.

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Just because theres a percentage in the OP.

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Oh touché, I wish that wasn't the case, but it was.

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It is a sad and strange fact that if everyone who posted on the "Tank" section of the board put their minds to it they probably would have found a cure for the common cold by now.

Instead they argue the importance of "Tanks without Taunt".

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I feel a cure for the common cold, may be as elusive as the concept of balance is for the Devs. Taunt on the other hand...........

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Deffo Dr Rock is Karol Vorderman

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*LOL*

Nutters!

Stone Skin is 10% as you yourself pointed out about a year ago after I5 came out.

Prima guide backs it up with Brute Stone Skin at 7.5%. But the 12.5% does seem to be the perceived wisdom.

Never got around to testing it myself, but I trusted your testing. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Gratz old chap!

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First off, it doesn't stack. If you have recharge reductions enough to get more than one on a single person, it will not give a double stack, merely re-apply the original one. Guessing that is WAI rather than a bug. Would be interested to know if FW from two different corruptors stacks?

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It is WAI, Frostworks does not stack with itself (neither did Dull Pain, Hoarfrost or Earth's Embrace when you could perma them). It will however stack with another power, or Frostworks from another source.

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I think it might be based on the casters HP rather than the recipient? Either way it's still very confusing...why doesn't it boost a corrupters HP by 60% if it does a brutes? I'm certainly keeping the power but i'm not making it a slotting priority anymore.

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The increase is based on your HPs that is correct. I would also guess you were applying those buffs to a level 28 corruptor as 1008 is the max hps at that level. A Brute by comparison has the same limit as a tank 2017 at level 28.

The table of maximum by AT/level is here:

http://boards.cityofvillains.com/sho...Number=4754304

Second post, second table.

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Aid Self & Weave, for sure, wouldn't pick weave over aid self

Eek, soz Dr Rock, looking at it without unstoppable now, 1885 DPS without weave, 3258 with. Hefty [img]/uk/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Aid Self I only really need to use much when there's a lot of elemental/energetic stuff flying about, but Weave should help a bit with that, as any dual-component attack (and there's a lot of them) would count the defence from weave in its ToHit roll?

Edit: The DPS is only the default settings, for comparing one build to another I have the same mob size and makeup and battle duration and so forth, by not changing anything...

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Weave is good with Invincibility (assuming enough around you) as it takes you up around 40% defence, which against even level minions is being hit 1 in 10 times. Without Weave you are down around 30% which is being hit 1 in 5 times, twice the benefit. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Greater than 40% defence is the real magic zone. If you can push from 40% towards 45% and half your being hit rate again (using CJ for example), you can really crank up your survival chances.

Aid Self is good for the healing and the lack of downtime between fights. Healing and regen form the basis that resistancen and defence multiply up, so they are good to have.

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Remember though, that weave is only melee/ranged defence, at least IIRC

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In I6 all defence pool powers were changed to be ALL defence, which is all typed and positional, to make sure they stacked with primary and secondaries. And yes that includes Psi defence.

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Sustainable damage numbers are saying to me here, that Weave will take my survivability from 2396 secs, to a rather beefier 4131 secs - curse the Tanker who told me Weave was not worth taking! That's only slightly shy of the increase in survivability granted by Aid Self, and Weave should boost the effectiveness of Aid Self, with (theoretically) slightly fewer interrupts. This also means that for overall survivability, Weave does more for an Inv tanker than Tough?

Is this a surprise to anyone bar me? Or is Weave the holy grail of tanking that somehow I missed, the shining jewel of the power pool toggles that noone told me about?

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Weave is not bad if you already have a lot of defence, Aid Self is good if you don't have a lot of healing.

I should point out my program doesn't produce figures in seconds though, assuming you are quoting my program? It is actually damage per second. For figures in excess of 2000 I would imagine you are looking at a very short duration fight or using Unstoppable?

One last thing, the average is weighted heavily towards smash/lethal as it is the most common damage type (and where Inv excels). But any spike tends to unbalance even a weighted average, so it is worth checking your element and energy values as well.

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The final to hit against people with no defence is the same in I6 and I7.

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Only the same for Minions against someone with no defence. There has been a subtle increase in the others accuracy for +levels.

Lt. I7 (I6):

+0 57.50 (57.50)
+1 63.23 (62.50)
+2 69.00 (67.50)
+3 74.75 (72.50)
+4 80.50 (77.50)

Boss I7 (I6):

+0 65.00 (65.00)
+1 71.50 (70.00)
+2 78.00 (75.00)
+3 84.50 (80.00)
+4 91.00 (85.00)

Basically they moved from a +5% tohit per level to a +10% accuracy per level. Which is only equal for Minions.

Dr. Rock's CoH/CoV Sustainable Damage Comparison
Version: 3.2.0

Settings:

Player Level: 50
Hesitation: 0 secs
Fight Duration: 300 secs
Rest Period: 0 secs
Minimum Health: 30%
Include Streakbreaker: Yes
Power Issue: I7 Powers
Group Size: 1
Groups: 20
Group Composition: 0:0:0:1 (Minion:Lieutenant:Boss:AV/Hero)
Model Defeating Groups: Yes

Powers and Enhancements:

<ul type="square">[*]Defender Support

Healing Aura: 3xHeal(SO),3xRecRed(SO)
Heal Other: 3xHeal(SO),3xRecRed(SO)
[*]Controller Support

Healing Aura: 3xHeal(SO),3xRecRed(SO)
Heal Other: 3xHeal(SO),3xRecRed(SO)
[*]Stone Armor Tanker

Earth's Embrace: 3xHeal(SO),3xRecRed(SO)
Rooted: 3xHeal(SO)
Hasten: 3xRecRed(SO)
Health: 3xHeal(SO)
[*]Regeneration Scrapper

Fast Healing: 3xHeal(SO)
Reconstruction: 3xHeal(SO),3xRecRed(SO)
Dull Pain: 3xHeal(SO),3xRecRed(SO)
Integration: 3xHeal(SO)
Instant Healing: 3xHeal(SO),3xRecRed(SO)
Hasten: 3xRecRed(SO)
Health: 3xHeal(SO)[/list]Results

Without Healing Aura

Tanker Stone Armor 310.70
Scrapper Regeneration 355.89

With Healing Aura

Tanker Stone Armor 370.45
Scrapper Regeneration 355.89

Regen is basically over stacked with heals and can't lose enough health to make use of them all, so caps. I would say that they could both do the job equally well, but the Tank has more capacity for external assistance.

I made it up of 20 * 5 minute fights to push the duration up as far as my app will go.

Also noticed yet more bugs in the Export tool as well.

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That's an interesting read, Idris, but to the best of my knowledge the Minion to-hit wasn't 50% in I5 and I6. AFAIK, the defense "nerf" in I5 was accompanied by a reduction in the base to-hit for NPCs.

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50% for Minions before and after I5, and still 50% in I7. The I5 reductions in mob base tohit was for Lts and above.

There have been no nerfs against even level minions, a buff against +level mobs, unless you were hitting the 5% cap prior to I7 in which case there is a slight nerf against Lts and above, and +levels.

It does get a bit more complicated for tohit debuffs.

Numerically SR underperforms compared to the other secondaries. But is helped a bit by taking all the passives for the resistance element and anything from the pools that gives healing, regen or additional defence.

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Anyone totted up the total defense you could possibly get on a blaster using all the power pool defense/resists along with an epic shield?
i.e. combat jumping, tough, weave, hover, stealth, maneuvers and any others i've missed?

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Download the app in my signature, you can then try them out and even see what it would be like with a friendly Defender along.

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DrRock changed Blaster Tough to 65% of Tanker in v2.3.0 of his Comparison.

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Got the 10.5% right, got my update notes wrong should have read 70%.

About time War Crow!

Gratz to Shadows Grace as well.

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I agree with most of what you've said, but if Fire needs Acrobatics, Stone needs TP just as much, for mobility not for travel.

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Blimey that takes me back to arguments of the past.

Probably more the case now that Swift doesn't hack it anymore. Although I would guess Filth doesn't have TP? as he was always very anti it on concept.

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1) 15%

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Any idea when it dropped to 15%, I5 or I6?

Was only a matter of time before you moved from the dark side of the farce, to well.... the other dark side.

Cheers much appreciated.

There is a thread in the US forums which includes certain in game numbers. One set of which is to do with healing, which disputes the belief that the amount you heal is directly related to your health (although it does seem to after level 20).

Below is a table for Healing Aura unslotted. Which shows for each level firstly the 13% of health value and secondly the amount using the internal table with a ratio of 1.

Question is, which is right? any Empathy Defender care to test it and tell me?

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> 1. 12.87 12.50 (12.63%)
2. 14.21 13.81 (12.63%)
3. 15.65 15.23 (12.65%)
4. 17.19 16.74 (12.66%)
5. 18.84 18.36 (12.67%)
6. 20.59 20.10 (12.69%)
7. 22.42 21.94 (12.72%)
8. 24.36 23.90 (12.76%)
9. 26.40 25.97 (12.79%)
10. 28.56 28.16 (12.82%)

11. 30.82 30.47 (12.85%)
12. 33.18 32.89 (12.89%)
13. 35.65 35.43 (12.92%)
14. 38.22 38.08 (12.95%)
15. 40.89 40.85 (12.99%)
16. 43.65 43.72 (13.02%)
17. 46.49 46.69 (13.06%)
18. 49.42 49.76 (13.09%)
19. 52.42 52.92 (13.12%)
20. 55.49 56.17 (13.16%)

21. 58.78 59.49 (13.16%)
22. 62.13 62.88 (13.16%)
23. 65.54 66.33 (13.16%)
24. 68.99 69.83 (13.16%)
25. 72.48 73.36 (13.16%)
26. 76.00 76.92 (13.16%)
27. 79.52 80.49 (13.16%)
28. 83.05 84.06 (13.16%)
29. 86.56 87.61 (13.16%)
30. 90.04 91.13 (13.16%)

31. 93.48 94.61 (13.16%)
32. 96.86 98.03 (13.16%)
33. 100.16 101.38 (13.16%)
34. 103.38 104.63 (13.16%)
35. 106.49 107.78 (13.16%)
36. 109.48 110.81 (13.16%)
37. 112.35 113.71 (13.16%)
38. 115.06 116.46 (13.16%)
39. 117.61 119.04 (13.16%)
40. 119.99 121.45 (13.16%)

41. 122.19 123.67 (13.16%)
42. 124.18 125.69 (13.16%)
43. 125.97 127.50 (13.16%)
44. 127.54 129.09 (13.16%)
45. 128.88 130.45 (13.16%)
46. 129.99 131.57 (13.16%)
47. 130.87 132.46 (13.16%)
48. 131.49 133.09 (13.16%)
49. 131.87 133.48 (13.16%)
50. 132.26 133.86 (13.16%)</pre><hr />