I understood the PFF changes (2min Cool Down etc) where MM only?
[ QUOTE ]
I understood the PFF changes (2min Cool Down etc) where MM only?
[/ QUOTE ]
Correct. Only the MM version of PFF has been nerfed. The FF and Epic versions are untouched.
Omnes relinquite spes, o vos intrantes
My Characters
CoX Chatlog Parser
Last.fm Feed
actually
i think ur totally wrong
i reckon issue 7's defense scaling has reborn defense giving powers
BLAUW BLAUW! lol force fielder r way better now
Knockback redundant in PvE? Could I get some of the stuff you're smoking? Knockback is a wonderful control toll, when used correctly, especially if combined with energy blast.
knockback sux in pve, even with like 200% of SO's it stil goes nowhere
I have tried several iterations of a FF character, Controller, Defender and MM. The knockback from Force Bolt is wonderful to behold. Especially when it knocks things of high ledges.
Knockback and down are two of the most useful tools IMO in the game mainly as they are not restricted to just one AT unlike true holds.
[ QUOTE ]
knockback sux in pve, even with like 200% of SO's it stil goes nowhere
[/ QUOTE ]
/em smack
I've tanked with a blaster using Thunderclap, Hasten and the usaul mix of attacking and parrying, with buffs. Knockback should never be overlooked.
With regrds to the effectiveness of PFF i used to be able to park in +3 mobs and my regen (2 heals in health) would take care of the damage b4 the next hit. Now, if i didnt have heal self, i'd be dead in 30 seconds. i believe there has been a modification to the resistance/defense that has been 'slipped in' without due notice. - we all know this has happened before, where sly mods have been left out of patch notices.
The nature of the defense changes has now made it less useful to have capped defence against tough enemies which is proabaly PFF seems worse. However, defence overall against all enemies is much better meaning the real abilities of FF are much better than they were before.
I don't know exactly the reson why it's like that but I've seen it referred to several times as a reason why Moment of Glory is now not as good as before.
[ QUOTE ]
The nature of the defense changes has now made it less useful to have capped defence against tough enemies which is proabaly PFF seems worse. However, defence overall against all enemies is much better meaning the real abilities of FF are much better than they were before.
I don't know exactly the reson why it's like that but I've seen it referred to several times as a reason why Moment of Glory is now not as good as before.
[/ QUOTE ]
Minium hit chance is 7.5% indeed but scaled for stronger enemies.
and indeed...
1. defensive sets are better
2. Why complain so much about pff..if someone in my team except for tanking would go in pff I would give him a warning 
(you got those peeps who use it for everything so get useless)
3. repel is a GREAT tool..no way to say its not..forcebubble is just awesome..maybe that repulsion bomb is a bit ''worse'' but overal repel/kb powers from ff are good to take
..
Force Bolt is one of the most underrated powers in the game. I've lost count of the number of team mates I've saved by knocking back a mob that was about to drop them or by keeping a boss pinned down in the corner.
aye, FF is FAR from dead..
and:
[ QUOTE ]
dispersion shield lets too much through
[/ QUOTE ]
thats cause you shouldnt be using it as main defense tool (though for yourself, it IS the only tool you got ), sure it offers nice protection, but to me the main purpose is the mez protect it offers.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
MY Bubbler has been rejuvented by I7, the bubbles have an even greater effect at keeping people safe now, providing any team a veritable fortress to make a stand in when combined with dispersion. Okay in PvP it's suffered due to the decrease of toggle droppage, but everyone has to deal with that. The bubbler lives, maybe not the most popular of sets, but were far from gone...
The pellet with the poisons in the Vessel with the Pessel, the Chalice from the Palace has the brew that is true...
I notice every comment relates to a 'team' or knocking people over, what about soloing and causing people damage - cant team up 24/7
[ QUOTE ]
I notice every comment relates to a 'team' or knocking people over, what about soloing and causing people damage - cant team up 24/7
[/ QUOTE ]
its probaly even more effective solo imo..and well causing damage..if you wanna do damage make a rad or kin (kin is better for damage imo)...bubblers can be great solo'ers but no its not a damage set
FF is an amazing solo defender!
It might be a little slow, but with knockback, blasts and more defence than any other defender gets, it´s a mighty easy grind, imo anyways!
It isnt anything like rad or dark to solo, and it isnt anywhere near as quick as kin, but it is fun, and quite easy when coupled with /energy (for super knockback fun) or with /dark (for "why cant things hit me?!! fun!) imo anyways.
Bubbles really shine in teams, though, so I wouldnt suggest you use it in hopes that it will be an amazing solo toon. 
I honestly dont know what evidence you are basing this 'the defense is better than ever' on? My bubbler is 40, i started him in Nov 05 and only use him now and again. This has given me plenty of first hand experiance of the changes implemented over time and i know for a fact that he has less defense. If you are simply going off the statistics of the new defense cappabilities i can understand, however in actual practise my toon is getting killed far too easily - he used to be able to hold all aggro and not get a scratch, now even aid-self cant rescue him.
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly dont know what evidence you are basing this 'the defense is better than ever' on? My bubbler is 40, i started him in Nov 05 and only use him now and again. This has given me plenty of first hand experiance of the changes implemented over time and i know for a fact that he has less defense. If you are simply going off the statistics of the new defense cappabilities i can understand, however in actual practise my toon is getting killed far too easily - he used to be able to hold all aggro and not get a scratch, now even aid-self cant rescue him.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your character was never meant to tank, and yes, Defense is better than ever. Against high level enemies. Me EA Stalker is a lot safer against +3's and +4's now, I don't get hit as often. Your own defense from your shields isn't as good as the single target buffs you've got for other players.
If you're talking about PFF, it's still stupidly good. Unless you're fighting Nemesis.
My 'character was never meant to tank'? I dont remember saying that was what i wanted, merely that i could - pointing out the in game chnages. Furthermore i am talking about personal defense and have been since i started the thread. Get off your high horse people im talking from experience not ignorance. If you cant engage in debate, dont reply.
What enemy groups were you fighting when you noticed that your PFF wasn't as effective as before?
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
Here are some maths to explain ...
Assuming PFF has 100% defence ( I don't know the real number )
EBTH is enemy base to hit, EFTH is enemy final to hit when you have personal force field on.
I can't remember the exact to hits of various enemies but it rises quite dramatically from +2s to +3s so I would suprised if +3s had 70-90% to hits ( the bosses being the highest ).
I6
EBTH EFTH DM
50 5 90%
60 5 92%
70 5 93%
80 5 94%
90 5 95%
I7
EBTH EFTH DM
50 5 90%
60 6 90%
70 7 90%
80 8 90%
90 9 90%
I6->I7 enemy to hit chance comparison
EBTH
50 100%
60 120%
70 140%
80 160%
90 180%
However as damage increased with higher rank and level enemies the actually increase in the damage received will be worse than this as the hard hittings bosses will hit more often that their minions.
So yes PFF has been nerfed.
If you do the same with the bubbles you give other people, you find a different result. I am assuming 40% defence for the whole set of bubbles, I don't know the actual figure.
I6
EBTH EFTH DM
50 10 80%
60 20 66%
70 30 58%
80 40 50%
90 50 45%
I7
EBTH EFTH DM
50 10 80%
60 12 80%
70 14 80%
80 16 80%
90 18 80%
I6->I7 enemy to hit chance comparison
EBTH
50 100%
60 60%
70 46%
80 40%
90 36%
So basically you are far better at protecting the team by bubbling at the expense of tanking with PFF. This may well change your playstyle, in fact given that you are complaining I'm guessing it does. It does mean that bubblers are more valued in a team nowadays if that is any consolation.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
[ QUOTE ]
My 'character was never meant to tank'? I dont remember saying that was what i wanted, merely that i could - pointing out the in game chnages. Furthermore i am talking about personal defense and have been since i started the thread. Get off your high horse people im talking from experience not ignorance. If you cant engage in debate, dont reply.
[/ QUOTE ]
Debate is going "you're right!", you understand that right? They've shown alternate view points.
Speaking from my experience as a grav/ff.
Bubbling is not dead. It's better than ever. In my recent respec I acctually had to drop powers to take more FF powers.
FF isn't a damaging set. Thats why you have the blaster/controller powers too (depending on whether your a def/cont).
With Detention Field and Force bolt you can keep 2 enemies out of a fight constantly, while you another on (soloing gives 3 enemies in mobs right?)
Repel/Knockback useless in PvE? Um? What? It's not about knocking far/hard. While they're being knocked enemies can't attack.
FF isn't ever a very noticable set really. You get no debuffs, green numbers, orange numbers, end recovery etc. If you're looking for those you're the wrong power set.
[ QUOTE ]
Forcebolt does nowhere near the damage of a fake nems equivalent, dispersion shield lets too much through and the laughable toggle knocking/repelling powers are great in PVP but in-game are redundant. Although its all very well to place your allies in bubbles and receive their gratitude, standing alone the bubbbler is a weak target even when PFF didnt allow easy penetration
[/ QUOTE ]
Knockback/repel can protect from those attackers!
Dispersion bubble isn't a main DEF power, its a Mez resit power.
And everything else everyone else has said.
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly dont know what evidence you are basing this 'the defense is better than ever' on? My bubbler is 40, i started him in Nov 05 and only use him now and again. This has given me plenty of first hand experiance of the changes implemented over time and i know for a fact that he has less defense. If you are simply going off the statistics of the new defense cappabilities i can understand, however in actual practise my toon is getting killed far too easily - he used to be able to hold all aggro and not get a scratch, now even aid-self cant rescue him.
[/ QUOTE ]Nov 05 ya say? That was I6 time, after that there's been no nerf to defence, noly buffs.
Only nerfs FF has had (apart for repel change), that I can remember, were in I5, with GDN.
[ QUOTE ]
My 'character was never meant to tank'? I dont remember saying that was what i wanted, merely that i could - pointing out the in game chnages. Furthermore i am talking about personal defense and have been since i started the thread. Get off your high horse people im talking from experience not ignorance. If you cant engage in debate, dont reply.
[/ QUOTE ]
We are also speaking from experience.
Fact is, you stated that you 'used to be able to hold all aggro and not get a scratch', and you should still be able to without issue. I've seen other FF users do it, and with the right buffs my Stalker can pretty much do it (with less def than PFF mind).
And MaX is right, after the GDN +Def sets have had some loving.
I can appreciate that there were some grievances over an MM using PFF in PVP and being able to put his feet up and watch his pets do the work, however a hero does not have the same luxury and is limited as to what effects their powers have. By nerfing PFF the developers have removed porbably the ONLY good self affecting power the heroic bubbler has - why?! Forcebolt does nowhere near the damage of a fake nems equivalent, dispersion shield lets too much through and the laughable toggle knocking/repelling powers are great in PVP but in-game are redundant. Although its all very well to place your allies in bubbles and receive their gratitude, standing alone the bubbbler is a weak target even when PFF didnt allow easy penetration. ALL the other defender pools (which i have) offer capable solo back up, my question is - Can't the PFF be restored to its former glory? If this is a problem for PVP because of the MMs then surely it is possible to code the heros' differently from the villains?!!!!
Please DONT bother replying to this simply to whinge about my slating of the bubbler's powers - give valid reasons to your arguement if you have 1.