Think of it this way:
They're making you look awesome!
Hell, I've been at this for about a year, and I look like a grizzled vetran compared to these kids...
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
*plays devil's advocate*
What are these players doing that you can't explain to them how to improve?
There have been many posts and many conversations regarding this same topic... and depending on which side of the fence you stand on, they answers seam to vary.
Many of the more experienced and/or seasoned and knowledgable players truly dislike what AE has allowed the new player base to become (High leveled toons with no concept of their chatacter in almost any regards, from how to slot enhancements to what powers are needed/wanted or how to use any/many of them)...
The Farmers/PLers on the other hand grief and say it's their right to farm/PL and use the new toons (since many knowledgable ones wont step near a farm mission) to pad the mobs... The farmers/PLers say it's up to the experienced player to TEACH the new players... Though I personally believe they created the mess, they should clean it up.
I've been on many teams in the past few months where the toons don't know how to travel to the mission zone, can't navigate via the map and certainly are surprised how much 'harder' the baddies are in REAL missions compared to the mind numbing throb of many of the boss farms.
Little if anything can be done until NCSoft decides what AE is going to be, how it should be accessed and many other details. Until then we can encourage new players to depart AE as soon as possible, stay clear of it until they learn some of the basics or never again gaze upon it's towering buildings...
There is no correct answer... just be patient and those that want to learn will learn, will seek assistance and actually listen... Though I have ran into way too many new players that 'know it all' already and they will be happy to tell you they do... As soon as they figure out when to buy those shiny level 30 training enhancements!
GL in the quest... be patient and enjoy the game as you know it to be!
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*plays devil's advocate*
What are these players doing that you can't explain to them how to improve?
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After playing various AT's for 5 years, you get an idea on how to play trollers and blasters and tanks and so on.
For example - one team the leader who ws a blaster, kept bouncing into large rmobs before my tank could even get aggro, he would die and then yell at everyone to run away
because he died.
A few of us on the team explained to him about 17 times that blasters should blast and only get real close if the have to fire off an PAOE, but only after making sure the tanks or scrappers have the aggro.
Or another team where defenders stack up their 2nd set for attacks and take almost no buffs. We tell them if you are going to do that then you might as well make a blaster.
Or kinetics defenders who never use SB or FS. The list goes on.
Proctector: Doc Heal lvl 50 Illusion / Empath
Sweet Fyre lvl 50 Fire / Rad
Axe Wielding Maniac lvl 50 Stone / Axe
Doc Heel lvl 39 Robots / Traps
Last year I was on a TF, Citadel's. A tank had none of his shields or possibly one (I put up a note on it in case I ever ran into him again). This was long before AE.
If AE has given us more bad players it may have also simply given us more players and some may be good.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Even the Vets coming out into the sunlight from running AE since its inception are Rusty! We were guilty as well, my SG has alot of Creative talent within its member Ranks and we have been running AE for a bit. Just got back to running regular missions again "quite different" You have to "create a team..can't just run any levels with one or two "Uber" toons and plow through everything in your path (our standard runs are always at Invince) lol. You have to play smart.. Only took us a mob or two to get into a rythem but yeah. Some of these n00bs have no clue I have seen people on toons that have absolutely no clue how to play them. And i asked them when did you start the game (no vet rewards) " Oh three weeks ago" And I say "cool well grats on hitting 50 so quickly" Lol
I actually went out of my SG comfort Zone last week just to see what was out there lol. P.U.G. 'ing (Pick Up Group) and wow It was nuts. running High 30's low 40's I just shut up and went on for the ride lol. Wow they had to totally replace the team after every painfull gruelling mission except the leader and his bud of course. I hung around for about 5 missions .. its all I could take lol. Wipe after wipe after wipe lol. It seemd All I was doing was finishing mobs and waiting for people to return from hospital lol. And the kicker was when the leader was bragging about 6 slotting his main AT power with all damage lol Anyone care for diminishing returns.
Not only do they not know how to play (MA babies) they know nothing of building toons either. Like breeds like I suppose.
In answer to your question I am inclined to say yes.
And in agreement with the second post. IT makes us look like... ... Well, Super Heroes lol
Lots of teaching to do now lol
I guess my point is, it shouldn't take you 5 years to learn how to blast from a distance, take buffs or use sb.
I understand someone missing out on "important" things by not leveling up the normal way. But are you saying none of these players have a brain cell and can't learn how to play?
Now if you're saying AE is potentially ruining other content out there I'd have to agree with you. Because its hard to go from an almost ready-made group that gives rewards that match or better whatever else you can get out there, to begging to join groups for lesser rewards.
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Even the Vets coming out into the sunlight from running AE since its inception are Rusty! We were guilty as well, my SG has alot of Creative talent within its member Ranks and we have been running AE for a bit. Just got back to running regular missions again "quite different" You have to "create a team..can't just run any levels with one or two "Uber" toons and plow through everything in your path (our standard runs are always at Invince) lol. You have to play smart.. Only took us a mob or two to get into a rythem but yeah. Some of these n00bs have no clue I have seen people on toons that have absolutely no clue how to play them. And i asked them when did you start the game (no vet rewards) " Oh three weeks ago" And I say "cool well grats on hitting 50 so quickly" Lol
I actually went out of my SG comfort Zone last week just to see what was out there lol. P.U.G. 'ing (Pick Up Group) and wow It was nuts. running High 30's low 40's I just shut up and went on for the ride lol. Wow they had to totally replace the team after every painfull gruelling mission except the leader and his bud of course. I hung around for about 5 missions .. its all I could take lol. Wipe after wipe after wipe lol. It seemd All I was doing was finishing mobs and waiting for people to return from hospital lol. And the kicker was when the leader was bragging about 6 slotting his main AT power with all damage lol Anyone care for diminishing returns.
Not only do they not know how to play (MA babies) they know nothing of building toons either. Like breeds like I suppose.
In answer to your question I am inclined to say yes.
And in agreement with the second post. IT makes us look like... ... Well, Super Heroes lol
Lots of teaching to do now lol
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I have been in-game on and off (several accounts even) since Beta... Every time I take a vacation from the game I come back to a 'learning' experience. I still have loads to learn, but try to be effective for the teams I play on based upon the AT I am playing at the time!
I have learned loads of information (but have only recently started posting... just me, being me I guess) from the boards/forums and from many of the great players I have had the pleasure of teaming with!
One of the problems is that the new AE babies seem to be uninterested in anything outside of the architect. I would be happy to help newer players learn the game, just like the vets helped me three years ago when I was just starting. My SG is happy to accept new players, and we are mentoring one at the moment.
However, the second you tell these AE babies that you're not going to PL them, the conversation is over. There are plenty of others that will AE farm them up to 50 that they just move on. I had a lvl 1 player with no vet badges get beligerent with me last night...had no idea why my 50 wouldn't let him tag along to soak up XP....after all, he NEEDED to lvl.
This is just my experience...YMMV.
Goodbye, City of Heroes...I'll miss you.
On Justice as @Amperrie (well, for a little while longer...)
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I understand someone missing out on "important" things by not leveling up the normal way. But are you saying none of these players have a brain cell and can't learn how to play?
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Not saying they CANT learn to play....they seem UNINTERESTED in learning to play anything outside of architect farms.
Goodbye, City of Heroes...I'll miss you.
On Justice as @Amperrie (well, for a little while longer...)
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Not saying they CANT learn to play....they seem UNINTERESTED in learning to play anything outside of architect farms.
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Odds are they will spend their gaming time there, quickly burn out and move on.
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Not saying they CANT learn to play....they seem UNINTERESTED in learning to play anything outside of architect farms.
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Odds are they will spend their gaming time there, quickly burn out and move on.
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I'm hopeful that when they burn out on the architect, they will at least try venturing out into the rest of the city. I would be happy to help them learn to play, even if it means some frustrating teams and task forces...it would be worth it if in the end we end up with a larger, more active population.
Goodbye, City of Heroes...I'll miss you.
On Justice as @Amperrie (well, for a little while longer...)
I've had the opportunity to also team with some AE Babies that found the door unlocked and unguarded and escaped AE on their own and have a good idea of how to play the game and just need some 'advanced' knowledge and skills (not saying that I can do, but I do assist with what I can)...
There's been bad players since before AE
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I have learned loads of information (but have only recently started posting... just me, being me I guess) from the boards/forums and from many of the great players I have had the pleasure of teaming with!
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Yeah. And I know we all try to be effective. All I was saying is that even the Vets get Rusty and complacent if running MA for too long without running real content.. Its different especially if you have your own creative team tailoring you missions in MA.
And in retrospect, I suppose it's not exactly "Making" bad players. Its just giving loaded guns to 2 yr olds so to speak lol. What I mean is (and I am) we need to take time to teach some of these youngens how to play. Teaching is my new Bag baby and its not a bad gig really. We have a few that are really, really eager to learn... Trust me they dont want to play poorly alot of the time. Some have attitudes but then so do some of the old scchool also.
But when they see you running an uber unstoppable toon they are like... WOW 
and then How? "Door Opened" 
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There's been bad players since before AE
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Agreed, but the influx X1000 (10,000?-100,000?) makes it more of a player base issue than just a bad toon.
Has anyone thought about why AE was created in the first place?
Dont get me wrong, I leveled my 2nd hero to 50 through the AE system mainly because I was learning the AE system itself (creating arcs, looking for badges, etc)
I just remember that when HEATS came out many of us veteran players were still stinging from the massive change and fallout that occurred from ED, stack that on top of unlocking a new AT instead of creating large amounts of content for level capped Heroes was just a bad idea and everyone told them so on the forums.
Now here we are years later and they invent this new way to unlock those level 50 toons even easier. It sickens me to the core that we're arguing about braindead children not willing/wishing to learn how to play the game when, I believe that the Devs really don't have a grasp on what the hardcore CoX players want from this game.
As for the OP, did it make bad players...YES. Will some of them get better....YES. Will this bring more people to the game....YES with a caveat. Instant gratification does not last and neither will these braindead children. What we need in this game to make it last is delayed gratification and with the AE fiasco present, this will not happen.
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Not saying they CANT learn to play....they seem UNINTERESTED in learning to play anything outside of architect farms.
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Odds are they will spend their gaming time there, quickly burn out and move on.
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I'm hopeful that when they burn out on the architect, they will at least try venturing out into the rest of the city. I would be happy to help them learn to play, even if it means some frustrating teams and task forces...it would be worth it if in the end we end up with a larger, more active population.
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It's the attitudes, for example calling them "AE babies", "braindead children" etc., that I feel works against what you hope for. Some already have a negative feeling toward anyone who has participated in AE, right or wrong.
I've mentioned before that I resorted to AE when I can't find groups for anything else. I was berated by someone in-game about it, only to end up grouping with them in Croatoa later.
I don't know what the best way is to "fix" whatever is wrong how AE is affecting this game. But the attitudes toward the players vs. the mechanic doesn't do the game community any good.
I think AE can be useful, a learning tool but man there should be regulations. I get annoyed when new players have no idea that there are other zones. I have yet to play on high lvl teams b/c of my serious altitis. I'm a vet for several years with several breaks and love the new learning experinece learning the new material playing the game and reading the new info on the forums.
AE is a plague imo.
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I don't know what the best way is to "fix" whatever is wrong how AE is affecting this game. But the attitudes toward the players vs. the mechanic doesn't do the game any good.
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The attitude (IMHO) is justified by some, earned by others and forgiven by many... I don't think it has become an us vs. them...
I too venture into AE to help friends test/run their arcs, I have my own I created for one of our SGs blue side for the toons that have not ventured red side to experience it...
There is no 'simple' answer to the issue.. but I, like many who have posted all over the forums and here, are willing to help if/when we can... but it is up to the individual to WANT to learn.
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It's the attitudes, for example calling them "AE babies", "braindead children" etc., that I feel works against what you hope for. Some already have a negative feeling toward anyone who has participated in AE, right or wrong.
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You are absolutely right about that, and I apologize if I offended anyone who I called a braindead child, but the fact is that you think it repeatedly lately. For example, we ran a Posi TF yesterday. About 30 min into the TF, 3rd mission, one of the members said "how long will this take?" I replied, we're on #4 of 16, so maybe 90min or so depending on the group. He replies, thats too long, i'm outta here....BAM drops group...30 seconds later, the healer says yeah this is really boring, not like the real game....BAM drops group. Later in the day, after the TF, I load onto one of my low level toons in AP and do you know what I saw? Not just 1 but both of them screaming in Broadcast for high level AE missions! Did I say anything to them? no, was I thinking anything....YES.
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I don't know what the best way is to "fix" whatever is wrong how AE is affecting this game. But the attitudes toward the players vs. the mechanic doesn't do the game community any good.
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Second that!
It's a weird metaphor. Clueless kid gets super powers, unsure what to do, and is a danger to his teammates, until either he gives up the superhero game, figures things out for himself, or receives some mentoring.
Almost like a comic book?
Us grizzled veterans, or those that know, which can be UNDER 3 months, all have an opportunity to teach, and increases the stable population of this game with knowledgable persons.
Instead of shaking your head, offer friendly advice, answer the non-troll questions seriously, and the wise mentor who they will have fond memories of years from now.
www.paragonwiki.com is a great source of information for this game.
New or returning to the game? Want advice from experienced players who want to help YOU?
The Mentor Project: Part of the New Player Council.
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It's a weird metaphor. Clueless kid gets super powers, unsure what to do, and is a danger to his teammates, until either he gives up the superhero game, figures things out for himself, or receives some mentoring.
Almost like a comic book?
Us grizzled veterans, or those that know, which can be UNDER 3 months, all have an opportunity to teach, and increases the stable population of this game with knowledgable persons.
Instead of shaking your head, offer friendly advice, answer the non-troll questions seriously, and the wise mentor who they will have fond memories of years from now.
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My current job offers me the opportunity to log into the game during morning/afternoon hours... (YIPPEE ME!) That said...
I seldom team during the day but can be found in AP under many different toon names offering advice and helping when a question is asked (in the evenings I might be found in AE badgering the farmers/PLers... though I know it is both fruitless and wrong of me to do so)...
If you're on Liberty and have a question.. stop by and ask, or just say HI...
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It's the attitudes, for example calling them "AE babies", "braindead children" etc., that I feel works against what you hope for. Some already have a negative feeling toward anyone who has participated in AE, right or wrong.
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You are absolutely right about that, and I apologize if I offended anyone who I called a braindead child, but the fact is that you think it repeatedly lately. For example, we ran a Posi TF yesterday. About 30 min into the TF, 3rd mission, one of the members said "how long will this take?" I replied, we're on #4 of 16, so maybe 90min or so depending on the group. He replies, thats too long, i'm outta here....BAM drops group...30 seconds later, the healer says yeah this is really boring, not like the real game....BAM drops group. Later in the day, after the TF, I load onto one of my low level toons in AP and do you know what I saw? Not just 1 but both of them screaming in Broadcast for high level AE missions! Did I say anything to them? no, was I thinking anything....YES.
[/ QUOTE ] That happened WAY before AE ever came around. If you want to prevent it, it's a smart thing to advertise your intentions and how long you expect the TF to take. Make sure everybody acknowledges before you "Accept Task". You can't assume that everybody knows what a TF is, or how long they take.. especially at the Positron level range.
Can't blame AE for everything.
(No, I don't use AE or farm in any way, and I agree with the theme of this thread. I just don't think this was a good example.)
Lately I've been on teams with people who are in the late 40's or even 50 levels and just don't know how the hell to play the game. Then you ask them and they are like 'Oh I got the game 4 days ago and farmed AE to get these levels. Also, what's an enhacement?'
Some of them really seem to know how to play and I give them credit for it, but some play so stupidly bad its actually funny.
One team I was on with my 50 tank, the leader and team was so dumb I actually had to stay on the team just to be amused at how stupid some of them really play.
Proctector: Doc Heal lvl 50 Illusion / Empath
Sweet Fyre lvl 50 Fire / Rad
Axe Wielding Maniac lvl 50 Stone / Axe
Doc Heel lvl 39 Robots / Traps