Should they look at Scrapper Inherent?
By
Ahmon,
Posted on: 2009-07-23 20:21 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Well, a Scrapper does have 112.5% damage, compared to a Stalker's 100%. And if you Crit once out of every four blows, that's the equivalent of +25% damage. So 125% damage compared to about 118% for a Scrapper with 5% Critical. And the Scrapper has more hit points.
If you're critting every time you attack, then yeah, maybe. 
But I think if you're just in there scrapping, while you may Crit fairly often, it's probably not more than 25% of the time.
(QR)
Scrappers do not need buffs.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Before looking at Critical Strike they should take a look at Vigilance first :-/
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(QR)
Scrappers do not need buffs.
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QFT
Scrappers are quite solid, and have other pros that balance them out with Stalkers (well, probably makes them better). I suppose Criticals are technically not the most dynamic inherent, but I never complain when a mob suddenly has a bigger chunk of health than I was expecting taken off, or better yet, causes them to be defeated. 
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I don't like the scrapper inherent. It's just so dull and uninteresting, even without being a flimsy duplicate of the stalker inherent. 5% or 10% crit chances sound like something that should be part of the powers themselves, because they sure as heck aren't archetype defining. But I don't know what the alternatives would be. People are happy enough with scrappers that not a lot of ideas are out there.
Also, please no "you can't fix A because B is more broken." That kind of talk gets nothing fixed.
Let's just switch the Scrapper and Defender inherents. Defenders get criticals, Scrappers get Vigilance. Everyone's happy, right?
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Let's just switch the Scrapper and Defender inherents. Defenders get criticals, Scrappers get Vigilance. Everyone's happy, right?
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Yeah baby. My FF/Rad wants it!!!! They killed the nice buff I was getting from 5 sets of Gaussian a while back and I'd love some love
@MARTy McFly
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Scrappers do not need buffs.
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This.
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Scrappers do not need buffs.
[/ QUOTE ] I disagree, Scrappers are horrible on teams. They don't bring anything to a team at all.
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(QR)
Scrappers do not need buffs.
[/ QUOTE ] I disagree, Scrappers are horrible on teams. They don't bring anything to a team at all.
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I think you're confused. I'm pretty sure you meant to say:
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I disagree, teams are horrible for Scrappers. They don't bring anything to a Scrapper at all.
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(QR)
Scrappers do not need buffs.
[/ QUOTE ] I disagree, Scrappers are horrible on teams. They don't bring anything to a team at all.
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I think you're confused. I'm pretty sure you meant to say:
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I disagree, teams are horrible for Scrappers. They don't bring anything to a Scrapper at all.
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LMAO!!!!
100% agreed 
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(QR)
Scrappers do not need buffs.
[/ QUOTE ] I disagree, Scrappers are horrible on teams. They don't bring anything to a team at all.
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I think you're confused. I'm pretty sure you meant to say:
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I disagree, teams are horrible for Scrappers. They don't bring anything to a Scrapper at all.
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[/ QUOTE ] Going in my sig.
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(QR)
Scrappers do not need buffs.
[/ QUOTE ] I disagree, Scrappers are horrible on teams. They don't bring anything to a team at all.
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Wait...wut?
[/ QUOTE ] Joking
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(QR)
Scrappers do not need buffs.
[/ QUOTE ] I disagree, Scrappers are horrible on teams. They don't bring anything to a team at all.
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It would be more accurate to say that Scrappers bring nothing more to a team than they do while solo, which is true. Of course, they benefit significantly from having a team around (although many in the Scrapper forums would argue that it's not needed), but, thanks to having an excellent balance of offense and defense along with buff caps that are generally pretty close to saturated while solo, they don't get as much as most other ATs.
My only real beef with Critical is that it's no longer unique. It used to be, back in the day when it was first introduced, but when you look at Scourge and Assassination, both of which are more playstyle intensive and actually get a larger benefit on average from their Inherents, Critical is simply bland.
Plus, something to remember when bringing it up, Scrappers actually generate more overkill with Critical than Corrupters with Scourge and Stalkers with Assassination because Scrappers start off with better base damage that causes their Crits to be substantially larger.
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Of course, they benefit significantly from having a team around (although many in the Scrapper forums would argue that it's not needed)
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Until I16, when we'll be able to do it ourselves, teams bring more enemies to kill. Every scrapper appreciates that.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I don't like the scrapper inherent. It's just so dull and uninteresting, even without being a flimsy duplicate of the stalker inherent. 5% or 10% crit chances sound like something that should be part of the powers themselves, because they sure as heck aren't archetype defining. But I don't know what the alternatives would be. People are happy enough with scrappers that not a lot of ideas are out there.
Also, please no "you can't fix A because B is more broken." That kind of talk gets nothing fixed.
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A few of the "inherent powers" were available before the inherent power system. Very few are meant to be class-defining powers. The only real reason I could see why they were added was to balance out the people complaining about Scrapper critical hits.
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I'm just curious, as right now, Criticals are easier to get on any one of my stalkers if even 2-3 of my team members are standing near me. Maybe they should raise the Crit chance on scrappers to a even 10-15% for everything.
[/ QUOTE ]*laughs, and not with you*
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(QR)
Scrappers do not need buffs.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I don't like the scrapper inherent. It's just so dull and uninteresting, even without being a flimsy duplicate of the stalker inherent.
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I like it. I don't want some CoV, need my inherent to be equal to the other ATs. I love Scrapper, SoA, Tankers and others whose inherents are mostly afterthoughts.
Oh and Scrappers were the first AT to receive an inherent as such. It's stalkers that are doing the copying.
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5% or 10% crit chances sound like something that should be part of the powers themselves, because they sure as heck aren't archetype defining.
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Scrapper kill, criticals help them kill MORE and FASTER. Sounds like a match made in Chuck Norris' fist to me.
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People are happy enough with scrappers that not a lot of ideas are out there.
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Nor should there be any ideas. Nothing to fix.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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It's just so dull and uninteresting, even without being a flimsy duplicate of the stalker inherent.
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You have it backwards there Rigel. Stalkers were given an upgraded version of the scrapper inherent because before they got it they were just barely this side of useless on teams.
It is impossible for the scrapper inherent to be a duplicate of the stalker inherent, because they had it first.
If I could change anything, all I would do is leave the percentage the same, and give scrappers teh same kind of team proximity percentage increase stalkers got.
That still bugs me that they gave the scrapper inherent to stalkers on TOP of their guaranteed critical from hide, and even made it so the stalker version works better.
That's like giving corruptors defiance on top of scourge, or vice versa with blasters.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Dull and uninteresting would be an inherent I had to stop scrapping and plan how to use for maximum advantage. Wild and scrapper-like is one that crushes my foes unpredictably, without requiring any thought on my part, during frenzied melee.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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(QR)
Scrappers do not need buffs.
[/ QUOTE ] I disagree, Scrappers are horrible on teams. They don't bring anything to a team at all.
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And, say, Stalkers do?
You can argue that no melee character brings "anything" (read: enough for your tastes) to a team. It will remain a subjective assertion.
There is no reason to "look at" the Scrapper inherent. It is unconditional and effective at benefiting what Scrappers do - deal damage.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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That still bugs me that they gave the scrapper inherent to stalkers on TOP of their guaranteed critical from hide, and even made it so the stalker version works better.
That's like giving corruptors defiance on top of scourge, or vice versa with blasters.
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That's not really fair, because what we saw in practice was that Stalkers, with their general inability at AoE, their lower HP, and their dependency on Hidden status, they were an inferior AT compared to Scrappers. Giving them something that Scrappers had, plus things they already had, only managed to bring them up to something comparable to Scrappers. They were starting from a meaningful all-around performance deficit.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Dull and uninteresting would be an inherent I had to stop scrapping and plan how to use for maximum advantage. Wild and scrapper-like is one that crushes my foes unpredictably, without requiring any thought on my part, during frenzied melee.
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Amen.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I'm just curious, as right now, Criticals are easier to get on any one of my stalkers if even 2-3 of my team members are standing near me. Maybe they should raise the Crit chance on scrappers to a even 10-15% for everything.