Practiced Brawler and Active Defense
By
Big_King,
Posted on: 2009-07-21 10:28 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
You can still double stack them - and in the case of SD, this is VERY valuable.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Kuji-In Rin (Stalker - Ninjitsu) is also a click.
It seems to be the Devs design for positional defence sets.
The click typeprotection has both plusses and minuses, They can be stacked they remain unsupressed when held. (unlike toggles) but do take animation time and force a redraw of weapons.
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The biggest plus to click mez protection is that it can't be forced off due to end drain or stacked mez.
Course... most toggles don't drop anymore when mezzed, so the click mez protections lost out on that move.
Be well, people of CoH.
Also, note that all the sets with click mez protection happen to be stonkingly good.
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Why are Practiced Brawler and Active Defense click powers, where all other mez-protection powers are toggles? The click seemed like a disadvantage before, but now that toggles don't drop while mezzed, it seems even more egregious. Can anybody explain this?
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They are different power sets, and thus have different strengths and weaknesses. It is not egregious that Super Reflexes has no toggle mez protection, any more than it is egregious that Willpower has no self-heal. Variety is the spice of life.
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The click protections also use less EPS, don't they?
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The click protections also use less EPS, don't they?
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WP IW: .208 EPS
SR PB: .087 EPS
yup.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Why are Practiced Brawler and Active Defense click powers, where all other mez-protection powers are toggles? The click seemed like a disadvantage before, but now that toggles don't drop while mezzed, it seems even more egregious. Can anybody explain this?
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In the day I always held PB up to be the gold standerd of mez protection. It was near complete, double stackable, and could never be dropped.
Now a days, i still think its exellent, and still has some nice perks, Double stacking, no suppression, and cost less end.. but it's lost it's luster a bit with no toggle mess protection droping when held. I think if they made it work like a brake free... for the few times it cycles up when you are held, that's be a nice perk... it wouldn't happen all to often, as you'd need to be held, a rareity in pve for any melee, at the moment it recycles, and have the end to pull it off.
So in other words, it wouldn't happen all that much, but when it does, it's be a nice "bonus". Thats my 2 cents.
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Why are Practiced Brawler and Active Defense click powers, where all other mez-protection powers are toggles? The click seemed like a disadvantage before, but now that toggles don't drop while mezzed, it seems even more egregious. Can anybody explain this?
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In the day I always held PB up to be the gold standerd of mez protection. It was near complete, double stackable, and could never be dropped.
Now a days, i still think its exellent, and still has some nice perks, Double stacking, no suppression, and cost less end.. but it's lost it's luster a bit with no toggle mess protection droping when held. I think if they made it work like a brake free... for the few times it cycles up when you are held, that's be a nice perk... it wouldn't happen all to often, as you'd need to be held, a rareity in pve for any melee, at the moment it recycles, and have the end to pull it off.
So in other words, it wouldn't happen all that much, but when it does, it's be a nice "bonus". Thats my 2 cents.
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It should do that anyway, not for the high level game, but for the low level game. The low level game is the roughest for the defense based power sets that have click mez protection.
That level 2 hellion gunner's defense debuff is 7% at level 2 same as it would be at level 50. In most places defense based mitigation sets have none (because it's debuffed) until they have 15% or more. This usually doesn't happen until the late 25s and the early 30s.
At the same time that defense based sets are dealing with this they also have only partial mez protection because the duration is shorter than the recharge on PB and AD. While toggle based mez protection users enjoy full protection as soon as they get the power.
Having PB and AD work as a breakfree would be a boon in the low levels that are all ready hard enough on defense based sets.
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The click protections also use less EPS, don't they?
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WP IW: .208 EPS
SR PB: .087 EPS
yup.
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This actually makes sense when you consider that Practiced Brawler has an additional cost that a toggle never has to consider: animation time. In most aspects of the game, this isn't really addressed simply because animation time was never actually considered to have anything to do with game mechanics way back when, but, hopefully, soon the devs will have a mechanism to actually check.
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The biggest plus to click mez protection is that it can't be forced off due to end drain or stacked mez.
Course... most toggles don't drop anymore when mezzed, so the click mez protections lost out on that move.
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Although, Toggles do suppress. Click powers do not.
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The biggest plus to click mez protection is that it can't be forced off due to end drain or stacked mez.
Course... most toggles don't drop anymore when mezzed, so the click mez protections lost out on that move.
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Although, Toggles do suppress. Click powers do not.
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Mez protections in toggles do not suppress.
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Mez protections in toggles do not suppress.
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Hunh. Does that hold true for Acrobatics as well?
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--The Question, JLU
Mez protection doesn't suppress, but secondary effects, like IW's Psi Def do. Nothing suppresses in a click power.
This doesn't matter for PB, nor Kuji-In (I think), but it does for Active Defense - it's a significant part of SD's Def Debuff Resist.
@Roderick
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Why are Practiced Brawler and Active Defense click powers, where all other mez-protection powers are toggles? The click seemed like a disadvantage before, but now that toggles don't drop while mezzed, it seems even more egregious. Can anybody explain this?
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They are different power sets, and thus have different strengths and weaknesses. It is not egregious that Super Reflexes has no toggle mez protection, any more than it is egregious that Willpower has no self-heal. Variety is the spice of life.
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However, it is rather silly that the defense set which most naturally pairs with a weapon - Shield Defense - has you periodically putting away that weapon in order to have your mez protection.
And it's poor mez protection prior to SOs given the constant gap in mez defense you have while waiting for the power to recharge. If they could be activated *while* mezzed, they'd be more useful, overall.
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The click protections also use less EPS, don't they?
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WP IW: .208 EPS
SR PB: .087 EPS
yup.
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This actually makes sense when you consider that Practiced Brawler has an additional cost that a toggle never has to consider: animation time. In most aspects of the game, this isn't really addressed simply because animation time was never actually considered to have anything to do with game mechanics way back when, but, hopefully, soon the devs will have a mechanism to actually check.
[/ QUOTE ]I wouldnt say animation time is an issue because the animations for these powers can be easily cancelled if you are in motion.
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The click protections also use less EPS, don't they?
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WP IW: .208 EPS
SR PB: .087 EPS
yup.
[/ QUOTE ]
This actually makes sense when you consider that Practiced Brawler has an additional cost that a toggle never has to consider: animation time. In most aspects of the game, this isn't really addressed simply because animation time was never actually considered to have anything to do with game mechanics way back when, but, hopefully, soon the devs will have a mechanism to actually check.
[/ QUOTE ]I wouldnt say animation time is an issue because the animations for these powers can be easily cancelled if you are in motion.
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While true, you are still unable to attack during the power's cast time regardless of whether the animation fires off. An issue that toggle players only have to deal with once a play session upon logging in.
Be well, people of CoH.
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However, it is rather silly that the defense set which most naturally pairs with a weapon - Shield Defense - has you periodically putting away that weapon in order to have your mez protection.
And it's poor mez protection prior to SOs given the constant gap in mez defense you have while waiting for the power to recharge. If they could be activated *while* mezzed, they'd be more useful, overall.
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Additionally, I've never understood the concept of click mez protection. What is the few second action you are taking every few minutes that makes you harder to mez or knockback for that time?
From wiki-
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Your training has allowed you to become a Practiced Brawler, tuning you into a perfect fighting machine. You gain a resistance to Knockback, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, and Immobilization powers for a short duration.
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AD doesn't even give an explanation, but the one for PB definitely implies toggle (or even auto, but that wouldn't work for balance reasons).
While I like the variety, protecting yourself from being mezzed seems like something that would require constant energy/attention/endurance to do, at least the way these sets do it.
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I agree that PB should have a break free effect to compensate for its lowered value compared to non-dropping toggles.
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I agree that PB should have a break free effect to compensate for its lowered value compared to non-dropping toggles.
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I thought it did have that?
I might be thinking of Domination though.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
|
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I agree that PB should have a break free effect to compensate for its lowered value compared to non-dropping toggles.
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I thought it did have that?
I might be thinking of Domination though.
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Dom yes, PB no.
Be well, people of CoH.
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The click protections also use less EPS, don't they?
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WP IW: .208 EPS
SR PB: .087 EPS
yup.
[/ QUOTE ] But could that possibly change on a high recharge build with PB on auto fire(assuming PB is one slotted with end reduction)?
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The click protections also use less EPS, don't they?
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WP IW: .208 EPS
SR PB: .087 EPS
yup.
[/ QUOTE ] But could that possibly change on a high recharge build with PB on auto fire(assuming PB is one slotted with end reduction)?
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If you're talking about heavy IO builds, I'd stick with a single lvl 50 basic IO in IW. That drops its end cost to .146 EPS
My SR is sitting on a 64.5sec recharge on PB. That's .161 EPS.
The toggle wins. However, I *could* slot a single end-red in PB and it would still be perma. (Come to think on that, I probably should and have no idea why I haven't.)
Doing so bumps the recharge up to 74.8 seconds and costs 7.3 end for .098 EPS, leaving it below the toggle cost with identical slotting.
Be well, people of CoH.
Awesome, that's what I wanted to know. Thanks. I would think I already have an end reducer slotted there, but I'm gonna check next time I play.
Why are Practiced Brawler and Active Defense click powers, where all other mez-protection powers are toggles? The click seemed like a disadvantage before, but now that toggles don't drop while mezzed, it seems even more egregious. Can anybody explain this?