Lethal damage, Serum isn't very good, and they just don't stand out. It's not so much that they are bad as that they are a bit "meh".
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Also, their control powers (their most distinguishing feature) just aren't very good.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
One of the keys to Mercs is that they are very much in the middle of the pack and how they shine really does depend on the secondary you choose. I used Trick Arrow because it added a lot of debuffs to help with the mercs mostly lethal damage ( Commando does get fire attacks later ) and the control powers of the TA set blended well with the Spec Ops control.
Mercs fight best at range and you can use this to your advantage with the Oil Slick because as pets they are not bothered by the oil sick bug that makes pets scatter..
Ive seen the really crazy take group fly and turn Mercs into this flying aerial assault team..
I always say its not what you take.. Its the way that you use it...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I have 5 MM combinations above 32 ( Mercs/Dark, Thugs/Pois, Thugs/Pain, Bots/Traps and Necro/Pain ) and I find Mercs easiest to play.
-Thugs have annoying AI issues with the Arsonist melee dying and Bruiser running all over the place trying to figure out what to focus on ( A.D.D )
-Protector Bots always suicide melee or run right up to an opponent to bubble the other bots that are 50 feet behind him back with me ( whatÂ’s that all about ). Also had clipping issues with Seekers but that is fixed
-Both Thugs and Bots cause fire fear scatter so if you dont have an immobilize you get the fun job of chasing mobs in 4 different directions.
-Grave Knights get stuck at range using their blast powers and I end up having to GOTO them all the time to melee
Basically I find all other ones I have tried require vastly more micro managing that Merc/x. With my Mercs I just point and shoot and they stay in a nice bunch for heal , debuffs, buffs or toggle range ( don't get me started with Def/Resist IO's with the Thugs/Bots melee scatter ). Sure Merc/x might not be as powerful but I find they are much easier to play and with their base resists stacked with IO's and Toggles they are very survivable.
Nothing wrong with Mercs, I've solo'd AVs with my Merc/Pain. Its mostly personal taste.
Rule of thumb is to slot Achilles Heel -Res into all you pets. The bonus doesn't stack but with all your pets attacking you can keep a -20% resist on everything.
Synergy with secondary matters a lot with merc. I've found they go best with storm and pain, season to taste on that one.
Mercs/Dark were my first 50 on the red side.I still get grief from PuG's about having them. I also have a Thugs/storm,also a lvl50 and she's been put on the shelf.
My Mercs rip though about everything just as fast. Bosses (hah) I think of them like minions they just take a little longer to kill.Eb are like 2 bosses and take just a little longer to kill. AV's kinda depends on what AV. But Usually I just point what I want to die and it does.
"Rule of thumb is to slot Achilles Heel -Res into all you pets." Oh so true Gypsy..If you can find them for sale anymore. I was trying last night and not one was for sale.(That I had seen.)
I think Achilles does stack for each different entity?
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"Rule of thumb is to slot Achilles Heel -Res into all you pets." Oh so true Gypsy..If you can find them for sale anymore. I was trying last night and not one was for sale.(That I had seen.)
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I have noticed the same thing with the Achilles heel - it used to be that they where a nice, cheap (relatively speaking) way to increase damage. I think the problem here is that they are pool b (mission completion) drops and with a lot of folks still trying the MA they don't drop as often PLUS the random roll table that generates them (silver roll) also gives you pool A rares - so even when people do roll for them they come up less often.
Hopefully the issue 16 feature that allows folks to set mission size will get more people back out into the regular missions, thus generating more pool b drops.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
I have a lot of MMs. Only three made it to 50, two Merc/Traps and one Merc/Pain. I love my mercs.
On one Merc MM I have invise other. Nothing like an invisible army and they don't agro things when running through mobs.
A lot of groups don't want MMs period because most MM players don't exercise good pet control with agro. On the other hand my Mercs don't need a group to kill things - they are a group.
The only disadvantage I see to Mercs is that Lethal Damage doesn't do as much to higher end mobs. But as others have said, slotting Achilles Heal in the pets (and in my acid mortars) helps.
Besides, I like all the gunfire and spent rounds on the floor.
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I see in the comments of posts often that Mercs suck, but I've not found any actual post detailing why.
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Unreliable control powers, five feet cones, spec-ops don't get stealth strikes, and the medic.
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I'm considering building a Merc MM and am wondering why they seam to be the bottom feeders of the MM world? I see in the comments of posts often that Mercs suck, but I've not found any actual post detailing why. They seam like a decent ranged bunch of grunts, and are supposed to have some good AoE. What am I missing?
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People who post in the forum are a lot more "hardcore" than casual players and their opinions are also a lot more "hardcore".
None of Mastermind's primary set is "unplayable". However, if you examine and compare each set carefully, you'll notice some unbalances and then forum people form opinions that certain sets "suck" (in reality, it's a bit under-performing).
Having said that, most people say Merc suck and that's because in comparison to Robot and Thug, Merc doesn't stand out enough. For range aoe damage, both Robot and Thug are better and believe me, I have two lvl 50 Merc (Merc/Poison and Merc/Storm).
Let me just list:
1. AoE damage: Tier 1 Robot's cone attack is a bit wide than Soldier's. Assault Robot has two Target AoE attacks so you don't have to line it up perfectly for cone coverage. This is one area that Commando loses. Commando actually has 3 cone attacks (the 4th one is snipe aoe with super long recharge) but you actually have to goto him to certain angle to get the most out of his aoe. Spec-ops have ZERO aoe attack while Enforcers have severals. Merc has ok aoe but not as "practical" as Robot/Thug. I use the word "practical" because on paper, Commando seems to be a Beast in aoe but in real situation, you'll need to really micro-manage him to get that potential.
2. Single Target Damage: In this department, I have to say Merc > Robot (but don't get too excited yet). Thug's ST damage is quite amazing once Bruiser is at melee range.
3. Survival: I said don't get too excited yet because while Robot's ST damage is a bit lower than Merc, Robots have some of the best defense on pets with very decent resistance too. So if you are in a tough fight, Robots usually come ahead. Thug's tier 1 have survival issue but as long as they stay close to Enforcer, it should be fine. You just need to goto Brusier so he takes more aggro away from Tier 1 pets.
4. Knockbacks: I think Merc has the worst knockbacks of the 3 because Commando and Medic have one aoe grenade that spreads out the mobs. Robots/Thugs seem to only have cone knockbacks. I've heard a few complaints about Merc's knockbacks on the team. My only response is "Fine! I won't attack!" Knockback is part of the game and I don't know why some people hate it, but they do.
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With the introduction of procs, Merc's ST damage can be very decent. I don't know if anyone has ever done thorough damage comparison that includes Procs. I have a feeling Merc is pretty far ahead of Robot in ST damage especially now that Spec-Op cycles Snipe as part of the attack chain.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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"Rule of thumb is to slot Achilles Heel -Res into all you pets." Oh so true Gypsy..If you can find them for sale anymore. I was trying last night and not one was for sale.(That I had seen.)
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I have noticed the same thing with the Achilles heel - it used to be that they where a nice, cheap (relatively speaking) way to increase damage. I think the problem here is that they are pool b (mission completion) drops and with a lot of folks still trying the MA they don't drop as often PLUS the random roll table that generates them (silver roll) also gives you pool A rares - so even when people do roll for them they come up less often.
Hopefully the issue 16 feature that allows folks to set mission size will get more people back out into the regular missions, thus generating more pool b drops.
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Yeah, tell me about it. On Virtue, I couldn't even buy one because nobody has for sale!! It's so annoying. It used to be so cheap.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
<qr>
1. The markets (Black Market and Wentworths) are cross
server (but not cross-side - BM is for villains, WW is
for heroes)
2. Just because there aren't some for sale when you are
looking doesn't mean there won't be any ever. When I
bought my -res proc recipes a month or so ago, it didn't
take more than 2-3 days for my bids to fill.
Global: @AcceleratorRay
Heroes on Triumph
Villains on Victory
Proud member of Triumphant Defenders
Fight My Brute
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I think Achilles does stack for each different entity?
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The proc doesn't stack on itself at all
People who say Mercs suck are simply looking for something much more powerful than the game requires and don't find Mercs to present enough opportunities to get there. At least, that has been my impression. In terms of pure gameplay, though, Mercs aren't bad at all.
A few things that seem to have carried over from the wayback days is damage. Yes, I will admit, growing up a Mercs/Traps Mastermind back in the I7 days was tough, because both the Spec Ops and the Commando weren't using a lot of their attacks. Spec Ops wouldn't use their snipes unless they were really far away and the commando wouldn't use his Long Range Missile Rocket and sometimes not even his Full Auto. Pet AI fixes changed that, and they now use everything at any range it will fire. This has done a lot of good for the set's damage.
Something else that seems to bother people is control powers. I don't know why everybody keeps saying that they suck and they're never used right when I keep seeing enemies either stumble around stunned or stand around coughing pretty much the majority of the time. What's more, with two Spec Ops stacking controls, I'm seeing bosses held, at least for a while, pretty much every time I meet one. Stacked with the Poison Gas Trap, I routinely see even elite bosses held for a while. Sure, it's not controllable, but with two holds and two stuns, it's not that unreliable, either.
As for cones, I keep seeing that "5 foot cone" mentioned, which doesn't actually mean anything. Those are 5 DEGREE cones at 80 feet range. Even if we're counting the distance of the cone across at the range of 80 feet, that's still not 5 feet. It's actually more like 7.4 feet. Yes, it's a narrow cone, and yes, I can see how that would put them behind, say, bots, who have a 15 DEGREE cone on their Full Auto Laser, but in actual practice. Mercs still work.
Generally speaking, especially when it comes to Masterminds, NOTHING sucks. Given that I can take Mercs and spend the majority of the game never using my secondary, I don't think there's anything that's actually bad to choose. 'Sides, it's nice to play around without a lot of scatter for a change.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Mercs have good attacks. The problem is they have ridiculous CDs on them.
Flash Bangs and Tear Gas are great but, 2min/3min CDs is stupid.
Full Auto and LRM are awesome too but again, 1min/4min(!) just kills them.
LRM should be 1 min CD. Full Auto 30 seconds. Flash Bangs should be 30 secs and Tear Gas 1 min.
Just one thing on on AOE cones. Thugs cones are 25, 30, 30, 35. Mercs need some love here too.
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People who say Mercs suck are simply looking for something much more powerful than the game requires and don't find Mercs to present enough opportunities to get there. At least, that has been my impression. In terms of pure gameplay, though, Mercs aren't bad at all.
Something else that seems to bother people is control powers. I don't know why everybody keeps saying that they suck and they're never used right when I keep seeing enemies either stumble around stunned or stand around coughing pretty much the majority of the time. What's more, with two Spec Ops stacking controls, I'm seeing bosses held, at least for a while, pretty much every time I meet one. Stacked with the Poison Gas Trap, I routinely see even elite bosses held for a while. Sure, it's not controllable, but with two holds and two stuns, it's not that unreliable, either.
As for cones, I keep seeing that "5 foot cone" mentioned, which doesn't actually mean anything. Those are 5 DEGREE cones at 80 feet range. Even if we're counting the distance of the cone across at the range of 80 feet, that's still not 5 feet. It's actually more like 7.4 feet. Yes, it's a narrow cone, and yes, I can see how that would put them behind, say, bots, who have a 15 DEGREE cone on their Full Auto Laser, but in actual practice. Mercs still work.
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I, for one, never said Mercs suck, but I do believe that the rest of the sets are better than it because the rest of the have better AoEs. The only real change I would like to see is that their cones widened to about 15-20 feet. One of the main reasons why I play MMs is because of their AoE output, and having Mercs have pathetic AoEs is kinda sad.
The control powers spec-ops have are unreliable because of their insane recharge times. If they were to cut down the recharge in half, or maybe to one minute and 30 seconds for the other as one poster posted, then I would be a happy camper.
Mercs don't suck, but what they can do, other sets can do it better. Control? Zombies. Ranged damage? Thugs or Robots.
My Mercs/Pain plays just fine. I don't see anything "suck" about her minions at all.
I think we could officially call Mercs the 'all rounder' of MM sets. Some unreliable controls, moderate AoE damage, good single target.
I think it's just that Mercs don't particularly stand out. Thugs do the same thing, but better.
Oh no, no flashbang disorient grenades that scatter things!
I wonder that since that gun turret summon power comes with little jets now why the Commando doesn't summon one. I heard he did in CoV beta, but had it removed. Considering it was stationary pet so the turret was kind of meh I can see why nobody complained.
I think sometimes we focus too much on how the Pets are or are not balanced when it is the WHOLE SET that needs to be taken into consideration.
Ninja has the potential to deal great damage because of Smoke Flash. SF is a good power to take.
Thug has decent attacks plus a useful aggro-taking power in Gang War.
Merc has a chaos knockback in M3 Grenade, some like it and some don't. Serum, in my honest opinion, is pretty garbage. Problem with Serum is the lack of Psi damage resistance and the fact that Commando doesn't generate taunt so AV/Hero can still easily change target even if you goto Commando closer. I've taken Serum twice and both times I respec out later once I have access to Patron powers.
If the dev can improve Serum, Merc set can stand out a bit more IMO.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
The Medic is as finicky as the Arsonist, they do as much of not more knockback than Robotics for the most part, the damage is almost exclusively Lethal, the Spec Ops are mostly useless due to their slow recharging mezzes and only a few actual attacks, they have most of their AoE damage wrapped up in the Commando's slow attacks, and they have little straight up damage(most of it is DoT-style damage).
The up side to them is that most of the time they're all range, they have solid resistance, and have fairly steady damage. The truth is though that most people that swear by them are Merc/Pain or Merc/Dark, have Achilles's Heel Proc and possibly the Touch of Lady Grey Damage Proc, along with the Resistance Unique, in which case they are fairly effective at range.
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The Medic is as finicky as the Arsonist, they do as much of not more knockback than Robotics for the most part, the damage is almost exclusively Lethal, the Spec Ops are mostly useless due to their slow recharging mezzes and only a few actual attacks, they have most of their AoE damage wrapped up in the Commando's slow attacks, and they have little straight up damage(most of it is DoT-style damage).
The up side to them is that most of the time they're all range, they have solid resistance, and have fairly steady damage. The truth is though that most people that swear by them are Merc/Pain or Merc/Dark, have Achilles's Heel Proc and possibly the Touch of Lady Grey Damage Proc, along with the Resistance Unique, in which case they are fairly effective at range.
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I do agree that Merc's damage output should not be balanced around "proc damage". Merc with procs do decent damage but without procs, I am afraid it's pretty lacking (but not unplayble).
They can just simply reduce Spec-Ops' aoe mezzes. Reduce them by 15s?
Or, make Web Grenade 20s recharge instead of 30s? It is pretty embarrassing that web grenade takes 30s to recharge. lol
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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They can just simply reduce Spec-Ops' aoe mezzes. Reduce them by 15s?
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From what I recall, Mercs were added on late in the CoV development and probably fell under the radar like Energy Aura, and like most AoE mezzes the Spec Op's attacks fell under the "City of Statues" paranoia. Of course, unless you totally rule out that the Henchmen probably couldn't effectively chain-mez a mob and wouldn't hit an entire mob with a mez every time, there's really no reason for them to be over 30 seconds, or even 20s with most of the AoE mezzes hardly being over 16 seconds with 90% enhancement. For what it's worth, even with the increased recharge rate, the mezzes probably wouldn't add the survivability that Thug or Robot henchmen get from their defenses.
Awhile back I created a proposed change to Mercenaries that added survivability along with AoE damage without taking out their uniqueness, but I think it was before the Recharge change, so the recharges were still 60s or so in case a secondary was added that could buff Recharge Rates. I'll have to dig it up someday.
I'm considering building a Merc MM and am wondering why they seam to be the bottom feeders of the MM world? I see in the comments of posts often that Mercs suck, but I've not found any actual post detailing why. They seam like a decent ranged bunch of grunts, and are supposed to have some good AoE. What am I missing?