you have both at 50 and can't test this yourself? no offense, but seriously... with enough IO's and cash any archtype and any sets can be made into gods.
best advice i could toss your way would be: play which one you find the most fun.
"Scrappers don't want the bit of dignity that Brutes left them taken away by (lol)Stalkers." -Delta_Strider, on Stalker buffs.
Current Project: Hard Goodbye, StJ/Nin
Retired: Blitzwulf, Claws/Nin (50); Perdition's Blade, Night Widow (50)
Curious. As the other poster mentioned and you yourself confirm, you have a level 50 of each and you need to ask this question?
Hmm, sounds like someone has been in Architect because had you actually leveled them up you could easily answer thsi question.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Dont know where you getting that 40ish% number from but its way lower than that. I say the edge goes to windows because they kill faster and have more tools to take out a whole group. The mace animation times really hurt banes. Back when placate was like 20 second recharge they were on par with widows. Man I miss that.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
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Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
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Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Well , the widow seems squishier of the two but I haven't put in a ton of IO sets in either toon. Guess I'll copy to test and experiment around a bit. I've had the widow since just after i12 and has all the + hp accolades, I think her base is @ 1312 vs the bane having just over 1500 with just invader and high pain threshold. My question was about the "Scaling resists" that everyone says widows have, where does it list the values? I'm trying to determine if it even will make that much of a difference considering how low a widow's base hit point are.
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Hmm, sounds like someone has been in Architect because had you actually leveled them up you could easily answer thsi question
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So because I have a few lvl 50 toons and a question about scaling resists I must have PLed them? Rather than post a useless assumption why don't you be productive and attempt to A) help the poster out or B) simply just not post at all 
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Dont know where you getting that 40ish% number from but its way lower than that
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With tough and the 2 passive armors it's around 38% for smash/ lethal: 23% tough, 12% bane armor and 3% wolf spider armor. That looked pretty good until I ran the widow to a mish in GV and tested out the scaling resistances firsthand a minute ago. I ran to a boss room with all toggles off and all resistances scaled to 54% before I croaked. I would say this was at around 5% health when this happened (dang, should have taken a SS) but it was a greater # than I thought it would be.
And yeah, it would have be an easy choice if banes had a 20 sec placate. Honestly the only thing that really kind of drives me nuts with banes is the constant redraw between gun and mace. Oh well, still have some testing to do, thanks for the insight.
I don't know where you get scaling resists for Widows. Widows tend to operate as something between a Claws/SR Scrapper and a Claws/SR Stalker (but with their own unique set of powers). /SR has scaling resists, but I have not heard of Widows having any kind of scaling resists, let alone be able to speculate which power would have them. You are the first person that I have seen bringing it up.
As for being accused of being a PowerLeveler, the accusation is sound. You say that you have two level 50 vllains, which is only available after obtaining a level 50 villain. That means you have at least 150 levels of experience to draw from. If you haven't learned much to be able to make an educated overall comparison between your two level 50 VEATs, then that means you PL'ed most of the way on your toons, you are unable to be aware enough to learn while playing, or you just basically didn't want to learn. There could be another explanation but then I would be just aimlessly speculating by that point.
SpiderTeo, i believe Foresight has scaling resists, and if i remember correctly, it offers as much scaling resist as the three SR passives. someone please correct me if i'm wrong.
50s:
Grimmloch, Tactically Delicious, Ugly Frankie, Operative Tracker, CryoFurnace, Professional Help, Silver Sphinx, Aries Knight, Tachyon Aegis, Jade Sphinx
Currently building:
Any one of half a dozen alts!
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I don't know where you get scaling resists for Widows. Widows tend to operate as something between a Claws/SR Scrapper and a Claws/SR Stalker (but with their own unique set of powers). /SR has scaling resists, but I have not heard of Widows having any kind of scaling resists, let alone be able to speculate which power would have them. You are the first person that I have seen bringing it up.
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Widows have scaling resists in Foresight.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Well , the widow seems squishier of the two but I haven't put in a ton of IO sets in either toon. Guess I'll copy to test and experiment around a bit. I've had the widow since just after i12 and has all the + hp accolades, I think her base is @ 1312 vs the bane having just over 1500 with just invader and high pain threshold. My question was about the "Scaling resists" that everyone says widows have, where does it list the values? I'm trying to determine if it even will make that much of a difference considering how low a widow's base hit point are.
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Hmm, sounds like someone has been in Architect because had you actually leveled them up you could easily answer thsi question
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So because I have a few lvl 50 toons and a question about scaling resists I must have PLed them? Rather than post a useless assumption why don't you be productive and attempt to A) help the poster out or B) simply just not post at all
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Widows also get mind link, which on it's own is a huge defense buff. Not perma out of the box, but it's capable of soft capping you as I recall fairly easily.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Havent read theres other posts, but heres what ive seen from my play.
Banes have no defense debuff resistance. Even though I was softcaped, I have seen my defense drop to below 30% before on an ITF. NWs have debuff resistance so their softcap stays.
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As for being accused of being a PowerLeveler, the accusation is sound. You say that you have two level 50 vllains, which is only available after obtaining a level 50 villain. That means you have at least 150 levels of experience to draw from. If you haven't learned much to be able to make an educated overall comparison between your two level 50 VEATs, then that means you PL'ed most of the way on your toons, you are unable to be aware enough to learn while playing, or you just basically didn't want to learn. There could be another explanation but then I would be just aimlessly speculating by that point.
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You're aimlessly speculating regardless. Again, was asking about scaling resists as it -nowhere- outlines what the values are or even if they existed at all. It has been posted countless times that they do in fact have scaling resists, yet no proof existed that they do (I hadn't seen any that is). So by my asking makes me a noob or a PLer.
And now you say the resists don't exist at all, another mindless speculation? I just confirmed earlier that widows resists -do- scale, which was further confirmed other posters. If you continue to argue this then log on for yourself and see.
Anyways, again thanks for the posts guys.
Banes don't get Defense Debuff resistance, IIRC, and Widows get Mind Link... which, when combined with the other Defense-based powers in their tree can get them close to the soft cap.... and its easy to make it perma on a Night Widow.
Just sayin'...
I stand corrected, by Telperion and UberGuy. I concede that I do lack the experience of having a Widow leveled to have Foresight on its build. I have verified it by reading the power description in a number of sources.
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And now you say the resists don't exist at all, another mindless speculation? I just confirmed earlier that widows resists -do- scale, which was further confirmed other posters. If you continue to argue this then log on for yourself and see.
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Dude, if you wanted to make a post about scaling resists, then make a post about scaling resists, not about bane/widow comparisons. As for speculations, I would indeed say that your search-fu is weak, as well as learning-by experience. If a newb like me can find the information on my own after being corrected, then you should surely be able to find the information on your own after playing 50 levels of it, as well as after testing the numbers on your own. If all that information, you should be able to find it on your own. The above accusations have demonstrated a lack of knowledge despite your first-hand experience. My lack of knowledge is largely due to a lack of experience.
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Dude, if you wanted to make a post about scaling resists, then make a post about scaling resists, not about bane/widow comparisons.
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He did make it about scaling resists...
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Edit: I've noticed a few other bane vs widow posts but the main question I have is about the widow's scaling resists, I'll base my decision probably on that information. Trying not to beat a dead horse here with the constant comparisons. Thanks!
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Edit: So basically his question is: Do scaling resists make a Widow more survivable than a Bane?
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So because I have a few lvl 50 toons and a question about scaling resists I must have PLed them? Rather than post a useless assumption why don't you be productive and attempt to A) help the poster out or B) simply just not post at all
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Okay if that was the initla basis of your topic then why not say "What are the scaling resistance %'s for Night Widows?" You on the other hand named the "Survival: Bane v Night Widow" which says NOTHING about comparing scaling resistances.
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Hey folks, had a few questions about the two veat melees. I have one each at lvl 50 and was curious which is more durable.
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The reason I made my power leveling statement is because of the above sentence. How can you play through a normal AT from 1 to 50 and then two defensive based characters 1 to 50 each and not know anything about which is more durable?
If over the course of 100 levels you couldn't tell which one is more durable then you are either spacing while you play, or you are completely oblivious to what you are doing.
Figuring out your initial question could have been done quite easily using the game itself. If you are wanting to know the values you get for scaling just fly to the top of a zone and then drop straight down while your combat number window is open.
Example, going from full to about 10% health you should have just over 30% resistance from scaling. If you want ot see the rate of scaling just watch your combat number as you regen health and ta da you have answered your own question.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Ok most people talk about the defense debuff resistance and scaling resist that Widows get. Well to point out a simple fact here, Night Widows are probably meant more for melee hand to hand combat than Banes due to the simple fact they have a taunt in their primary. With that being said and also the fact that Widow get close to no mitigation, all of this justifies their high damage and defense. They have nothing else to stop oncoming. Banes have more of an active defense, some of their moves come with a disorient, some come with KB/KD, they get a hold and pets with a load of mitigation, they have moves that offer some nice debuffs and a force multiplier.
As far as survival goes, Widows have some great defense off the back with just SOs I mean spectactualar. However I think people are overcompensating the scaling resists, it requires you to lose health in order to use, which Widows don't have much of.
All in all, Widows are probably better at straight up battle survival, because as with most melee ATs it has a taunt in its set. Banes are clearly a Blapper/Dominator AT with stalkerish qualities along with some corr/defenderish buffs and debuffs and sprinkled with some hard and soft controls and pets, there is no way they were meant to be straight up melee like Widows so they are not going to get the same benefit of damage and defense because they have so much more.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
NWs are just better versions of Banes.
The only advantage a Bane has is it's venom grenade and surveillance. Banes are better force multipliers than NWs in that sense.
Both Widow Combat Training
ef and Foresight have scaling Res. City of Data has it listed as an unknown effect for both. Combined, they provide better Resistance than SR's scaling res at similar HP percentages. NW's higher melee Def, Mindlink, superior scaling Res, Elude, and some def debuff res; and you're still not sure? I'm not even counting their better melee and ranged attacks.
Come on guys, this is more than a year later and the lol SoA forums still don't have a clue most of the time.
Either I've had too much green tea or I've just stepped into Bizzaro world. This thread...sheesh! Just...sheesh!
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WARNING: I bold names.
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NWs are just better versions of Banes.
The only advantage a Bane has is it's venom grenade and surveillance. Banes are better force multipliers than NWs in that sense.
Both Widow Combat Trainingef and Foresight have scaling Res. City of Data has it listed as an unknown effect for both. Combined, they provide better Resistance than SR's scaling res at similar HP percentages. NW's higher melee Def, Mindlink, superior scaling Res, Elude, and some def debuff res; and you're still not sure? I'm not even counting their better melee and ranged attacks.
Come on guys, this is more than a year later and the lol SoA forums still don't have a clue most of the time.
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Disagree fully, you didn't even read none of my post. Where are the pets that Widows get, what type of mitigation do they get, what hard controls do they have, Banes have a better stealth than Widows too, and Bane armor come with auto mez protection and res bonus and also hp boost which Widows do not have. If a Widow falls in battle they need a rez insperation and break free, Banes just need to get up and keep it moving since their Mez protection is auto. It is useless to try to compare Widows to Banes they are very different, it is like trying to compare a Fire/Devices Blaster to a Fire/Traps Corr some similarities but overall they are 2 different ATs.
And it is not the forums have a clue you just have yet to find it, keep looking though soon enough you will.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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Dude, if you wanted to make a post about scaling resists, then make a post about scaling resists, not about bane/widow comparisons.
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He did make it about scaling resists...
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Edit: I've noticed a few other bane vs widow posts but the main question I have is about the widow's scaling resists, I'll base my decision probably on that information. Trying not to beat a dead horse here with the constant comparisons. Thanks!
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Edit: So basically his question is: Do scaling resists make a Widow more survivable than a Bane?
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Short Answer No.
Explaination, what really makes their survivabilty high is due to the fact they have two extremely high defense moves foresight (possibly one of the best auto powers in the game) and Mind Link which either requires minimal IO slotting and a power pick or substantial IO slotting.
Banes require a more active defense almost like Dominators, which means relying on mitigation to offset damages, i.e. KD keeps an enemy on their back stopping them from attacking, a held enemy can't attack you, and when pets draw aggro away from you, you are no longer the target of attack. In a sense Banes have ways of giving themselves 100% defense.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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Either I've had too much green tea or I've just stepped into Bizzaro world. This thread...sheesh! Just...sheesh!
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Seems this forum has one every month for so.
Although, it could be the tea...
I disagree with the use of the word "Better". beyond Critical attacks from stealth Banes and NW are very different.
Night Widows have no mitigation in their attacks, which banes have stuns, a hold, and knockdown. This helps not only the Bane survive but any teammates as well. One major way this is important is the ability to de-toggle nasty debuffs or buffs that enemies may use (hurricane, chill of the night, invincibility).
Having access to -res makes the bane better at fighting tougher bosses not to mention that Banes do Smashing, toxic, and energy dmg which are less resisted than lethal and psi.
I think with only SOs a NW is ahead of a Bane, but a soft-capped IOed out Bane can equal or outperform a NW.....especially on a team.
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
Sigh... this again. To start off with, all the SoA are awesome and I've never understood the need to ignore that Forts, Crabs and NW have clear advantages over Banes.
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Night Widows have no mitigation in their attacks, which banes have stuns, a hold, and knockdown. This helps not only the Bane survive but any teammates as well. One major way this is important is the ability to de-toggle nasty debuffs or buffs that enemies may use (hurricane, chill of the night, invincibility).
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False. NW have very high levels of -recharge which they can stack up on a tough enemy in seconds. It's quite amazing when you see a mob running away because it no longer has any attacks recharged.
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Having access to -res makes the bane better at fighting tougher bosses not to mention that Banes do Smashing, toxic, and energy dmg which are less resisted than lethal and psi.
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Again, false. Both -res cause redraw which hurts Bane DPS which already lags behind Night Widows.
I'm not biased by the way. I play a Widow/Fort and a Bane/Huntsman. I think that the Bane is good, the huntsman amazing (almost as good as a Crab without the ugly arms), and the NW/Fort obscenely strong.
I like Banes a lot. I really think they're fun to play. But they don't compare offensively to Widows and they are at best equal to Widows on the defensive front.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Sigh... this again. To start off with, all the SoA are awesome and I've never understood the need to ignore that Forts, Crabs and NW have clear advantages over Banes.
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I have never understood why people think that Banes are so low on the totem pole. Yeah Crabs have more defense but their offense is poor and typically depends on pets to help add to dps, which also Banes have some access to.
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Night Widows have no mitigation in their attacks, which banes have stuns, a hold, and knockdown. This helps not only the Bane survive but any teammates as well. One major way this is important is the ability to de-toggle nasty debuffs or buffs that enemies may use (hurricane, chill of the night, invincibility).
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False. NW have very high levels of -recharge which they can stack up on a tough enemy in seconds. It's quite amazing when you see a mob running away because it no longer has any attacks recharged.
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Yeah I guess, if you look at it like that. But, I would go the route of saying that they don't have more mitigation or as much as Banes and although they haves ways of slowing down attacks, Banes have ways of stopping them altogether, mainly to offset the passive defense that Widows have with Active defense.
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Having access to -res makes the bane better at fighting tougher bosses not to mention that Banes do Smashing, toxic, and energy dmg which are less resisted than lethal and psi.
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Again, false. Both -res cause redraw which hurts Bane DPS which already lags behind Night Widows.
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Also what helps Bane dps is the 2 pets they get, and the -res increases their damage as well.
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I'm not biased by the way. I play a Widow/Fort and a Bane/Huntsman. I think that the Bane is good, the huntsman amazing (almost as good as a Crab without the ugly arms), and the NW/Fort obscenely strong.
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I wouldn't consider you biased, however, you did not include everything that a Bane has, something most people do, and consider them bottem of the totem pole as most do.
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I like Banes a lot. I really think they're fun to play. But they don't compare offensively to Widows and they are at best equal to Widows on the defensive front.
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I wouldn't even try to compare them on that level, again as I try to tell most, Banes and Widows are 2 different ATs.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
Hey folks, had a few questions about the two veat melees. I have one each at lvl 50 and was curious which is more durable. I noticed the general outlook around here is "NWs rule and banes drool" , but I have been looking at a few builds I've put together and it appears that banes have the edge in survival if enough inf in pushed their way. They can have higher hitpoints through bane armor upgrade and, coupled with tough, can have @ 40ish% vs lethal/smash and @ 25ish vs various other damage types (this is off of an IOed bane mind you).
Yes widows can cap defenses for probably a ton cheaper, but both are capable of soft capping. Widows are suppose to have scaling resists but I cannot find info on this anywhere; what is the % and when does it begin to scale? Also, with their low hit points is it even noticeable?
I'm just looking at defenses really, yeah I know NWs can dish out more hurt but crowd control is sexy enough of an attack that I will overlook the bane's "I just crawled out of an icy lake"-like slow mace animations and constant redraws (read: I'm taking venom grenade and surveillance). Thanks in advance
Edit: I've noticed a few other bane vs widow posts but the main question I have is about the widow's scaling resists, I'll base my decision probably on that information. Trying not to beat a dead horse here with the constant comparisons. Thanks!