pvp Change to help badge hunters.
By
Blondeshell,
Posted on: 2009-07-08 14:46 in Badges and Gladiators
Not to get in the middle of this, but I've always been sort of proud that only 10 or so of my villain's 515 badges come from any sort of "gaming the system". I only have Reinforcement on the PVP side, but I got it legit, and got up to 10 or so in PVP rep a few times without really making a concerted effort. I'm sure I could get the others.
Unbreakable/Born in Battle, Illusionist (which I actually didn't succeed on when I did it autopilot), Grand Lanista...that's about it. Plus the associated Gladiators. I never afk'ed in PVP zones, or did any of the other wacky things.
But I don't care if someone else did. Go them.
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Badges arent a status sybmol because you can use work arounds and cheats to get em. If I meet 2 people with similar badges and person A got them through cheating and person B obtained them the hard way and I am looking for an 8th person for a TF or team I pick person B simply because it says a lot about someone's drive to achive as opposed to his eagerness to cheat
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Quick question: How can a person prove "how" they earn badges in this game?
Answer that one and I might accept that your argument about the "proper" way to earn little collections of pixels on the screen of a computer game has any bearing on anyone whatsoever.
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You cant prove it, you have to take someone's word for it.
I think it is safe to say if a person obtains for instance the top healing badge of a gagillain healed points or whatever from farming it in the arena with the pet thing but tells everyone they met they got it from actual play with teams, that person probably acts the same way in real life. The real life 'Us' aren't so far from the people you meet in these games unless you are doing some RP. The arrogant become more arrogant since they can hide behind a screen and the liars lie even more since disproving them can be very har dto accomplish.
I am in agreement with Southern ONLY about the PvP badges because to be honest PvP right now is a different game than PvE. Power work differntly across the board. For me to see someone with a large amount of both PvP and PvE badges, I would be inclined to think of that player as well rounded since they could adapt to both playstyles and achieve the rewards associated with them.
If all you want is a badge to show and say "Hey look I got this badge for getting 400 rep in PvP" then by all means have at it but wont you feel some stupid when a new player looks to see you have them an ask a PvP question since you seem to have done enough to have some knowledge but all you can say is "I didn't actually PvP, I got them from standing there farming my afk alt"
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You can't tell me there is a normal way to earn leader and empath even with the reduced amount.
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Actually, by definition and game mechanics, there is ONLY a normal way to earn Leader. There used to be ways to AFK farm enemies for influence/xp but not in a long time. At least not that I'm aware of.
Empath... yeah, that's still pretty much impossible for all intents and purposes, even for a busy empathy defender. Is it THEORETICALLY possible? Sure. But, as far as we know, no one has done it the 'normal way' yet.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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One of the worst thing about getting rep badges the "right way" is rep decay. If spend a large amount of time earning rep and then can't play for 3-4 days all of your hard work is wasted and you have to start over. As awful as some may think it is, rep farming is one of the only ways to get those badges without months of frustration, especially if you are on a smaller server with little to no pvp community.
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So in other words you dont want to "Earn it" you just want to "Have it"
I have to agree with S Comfort.
Badges are accomplishments. A PvP badge is supposed to show you have what it takes and got enough kills to sport a title or have that particular badge
In the military you dont cheat to get your badges, you earn them
In the Boy Scouts badges are given out for excellence in a particular field
How is taking turns killing a friend to get a badge for PvP excelling at anything other than cheating the system?
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Even farming it they would have the "kills" to have "earned" it. They didn't defeat a less amount times then one who does it "right". No cheating there.
Or are you trying to equate some value to the badge beyond the numbers. Because unlike you examples, there will never be a value equaling, say a serviceman/woman being awarded the Medal of Honor, to earning any badge in a pretendy fun time game.
--Rad
/whereami:
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Now for those of you that didn't see sarcasm dripping from my first post, Let me just say the whole point was more/less to point out the glaring inconstancy of the changes the "devs" make in this game. I don't see this level of tweaking and tuning any any other game I have played. I mean changing things like rep cooldown to an effort to keep PVP IOs at a desired level of rarity, which boggles me as they are already the most rare thing in the game.
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Actually I earned the disruptor the original way that had nothing to do with defeating other players. It was the official way the badge was earned at the time it was awarded, and I have 4 characters with the badge in this fashion. The developers changed the requirements after I got the badges.
I am not responsible for people mistaken where I earned the badge, but I did earn it legitimately.
Reinforcement
Disruptor
Forward Observer
All had different requirements at Issue 6 launch.
Agent Provocateur
Risk Taker / Most Wanted
Vigilante / Wanted
Should have been the PVP rep badges, but the developers changed the first three and made new badges for the PVP missions.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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But who actually defines cheating? You?
You mean to tell me, trading kills in a PvP zone, while other PvPers are attacking you because, well, it's a PvP zone, means that you cheated? Your definition of cheating varries from mine.
Exploiting a system to obtain something that's beneficial is my definition of cheating. Trading kills is not an exploit because we are physically spending hours/days/weeks to obtain the same thing you did. We put the same amount of time in, just in a different fashion.
Standing in one spot, using a bugged emote, and leveling up... that's cheating. Earning PvP badges from PvE enemies... that's cheating.
But, no... trading kills doesn't define cheating. It's called using a working-as-intended system to your advantage.
Let me remind you why there is a kill timer... it wasn't because of badge hunters earning badges quickly. It was because PvP'ers would camp hospitals/spawn points to kill someone as they were rezzing, with 1 HP, for the "rep" and the lawlz of griefing. That, to me, is cheating. Why? Because you are not playing as intended. You are not allowing your opponent the same advantages that you have... like resting in a safe zone.
I play with the same paramiters you do, just that I have a different use for them than you do.
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Do you actually read what you write?
Yes, I do actually read what I write.
Apparently you don't understand what cheating is. PvP, by definition, is Player vs Player. When I kill a friend, it's not a one shot kill. I do what you do, in a zone where I am (and almost always are) attacked and killed by others. So, no matter what I'm doing in a PvP zone, I am aware and accept that a PvP fight can happen with anyone.
Can I PvP by "your" definition? Most certainly. In fact, I'm often in Warburg and Siren's on Virtue just for the "lawlz" of it.
But "your" idea of cheating, to me, isn't accurate, because I am doing the same thing you are doing, just in a different manner. Just like my definition of "cheating" isn't accurate to you, correct?
What "you" have is an opinion of cheating. You are entitled to it. But just like a coin has two sides, so does every opinion. Trying to force me, and others, to believe your opinion (especially when we're on opposite sides of the spectrum) isn't going to help but continue an arguement that can have no winner.
Once again, who sets the standards in CoH for what PvP is? The players? Most certainly not. The developers? Absolutely! And as we've seen, PvP has changed from the "standard" way of playing to THEIR way of playing. Their way of playing also involves non-PvP goals in the PvP zones... such as badges, missions, etc. Just because a badge is tied to PvP doesn't mean that having to play by YOUR standards is the only way. It just means that you can play by your way, or play by my way... or play anyway that the Developers allow.
Show me in the CoH rulebook (EULA) where obtaining "trinkets" like badges in a PvP zone means that I have to continuously fight random players over and over and over, every 10 (now 5) minutes to increase my reputation to earn a badge. If there is a little note in there that says, "You must only play by other players standards or else you're not allowed in the zone," then I will bow to your amazing detective skills, since I don't see it anywhere in the EULA. If they add a note stating, "You are not allowed to gather 20 friends and trade kills to increase your reputation to obtain something that has no bearing on the game" then I will stop.
Same game, different scenario. I assume that you had to PvE to level up, correct? (I sure hope so; if not, that would be cheating.) Well, is skipping the entire map and going directly to the objective cheating? Is killing the end boss, rather than clearing the entire map, cheating? Is skipping over little bits of insignificant content just to get to the goal cheating? If so, than every single player should be disciplined. Your definition of "cheating" in PvP should also be transferred to all parts of the game. But no... you don't see any PvE'ers up in arms over the fact that you skipped content just to finish an arc and level up.
PvP and PvE have the same goals... get to the end/win. You don't set my standards of enjoyment, nor do you have the right to tell me how I should play the game... especially when it falls within the "norm."
The thing I find interesting is that "badgers" are being chastised by "pure" PvP'ers over something as trivial and inconsequential as a badge, yet the same community looks up to players that drone other PvP'ers simply for the amusement of it.
I thought PvP is Player vs Player only? So, you mean to tell me that I am not allowed to trade kills in a zone designed to do just that, but forcing someone into a drone, totally removing the Player vs Player aspect of the game, is okay?
I'll never understand those that set high standards for everyone else, yet can not follow the same logic. But, I digress... this is the internet... where everyone is their own personal, immobile giant.
Now, you can say, over and over, "Man, this guy just doesn't get it." But the person that doesn't "get it" is you. I am not held to your standards/definition of gameplay. I am held to the developers standards/definition of gameplay. Until they change their definition, I will continue to play their/my way. Not because I'm trying to be a "troublemaker" or a "cheater", but because it's my chosen way of play. Just like you have the option to do the same... or not.
And once they do change their rules, I will adapt and play in a style that's still accepted by them, but still fun to me.
/thread
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
That was awesome.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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/em slowclap
Blondeshell (1381 badges) - My other badge hunters
VidiotMaps Master Cartographer
MArc #87989 - Enter, The Conglomerate
Invention Salvage Distribution Charts
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The thing I find interesting is that "badgers" are being chastised by "pure" PvP'ers over something as trivial and inconsequential as a badge, yet the same community looks up to players that drone other PvP'ers simply for the amusement of it.
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This stood out to me.
I dont recall anyone in here calling you a "badger" or themselves pure "PvPers". I do seem to recall Snappin saying just the opposite of his activity in PvP
The fact that you decided to make a your one sentence paragraph in your post clearly bringing up the age old 'PvP vs Carebear' debate makes it look like that is your aggenda.
Southern Comfort seems ticked because he obviously likes to PvP and might not be happy with the fact that players going into zones for badges only will be in and out faster and just lead to less players in the zones, I know that is how I feel
Once you brought that little sentence up in your post, I knew what all your post were trying to get across. You consider yourself and "Badger". You felt like the big bad pure "PvPers" (still cant find them in here btw) were talking bad about YOUR group.
I know a lot of people who badge hunt and PvP. I do it and I enjoy it. I dont dislike either side because to me they dont have sides. We all play the game, some get only bagdes needed for accolades and some go for em all and I am glad everybody is having fun but when idiots like you come in here and try to start futher dividing the playerbase with your stupid comments about "PvPrs", you only open the door for another idiot like you who claims himself to be a "PvPr" to come in here and start more crap
Good job on your post's grammar and punctuation by the way. You appear to be an intelligent person so dont be such an idiot
Im suprised you didnt see that from any of these
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I think you stumbled into the wrong forum. Why don't you go back and hang out with your little friends that show their ePeen by "havins t3h ubor l33t r3c1p3."
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Just go away or I'll come into your forum and make a nonsensical post that matters to no one
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The thing I think funny is that after all of the changes to PvP, and after the PvP population died off, the remaining PvP community could care about badges and how they are earned. I mean, this would bring more people into YOUR community and build it back up again.
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I wasnt the one who bolded 'YOUR' btw
It's all good though. It's a common rally tactic to bring others who feel your way into the arguement but that is an arguement I want no part of. The divide between Badgers and PvPers is Cox's own little for of racism sometimes. You just cant have a talk without somebody bringin it up
Once again, this is a debate that no one will win.
If you look back, I didn't start the attack, I defended those being attacked. Southern_Comfort made the following statement:
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People that farm for pvp badges are the ultimate gaming lowlife.
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Now, I don't know of any PvP'ers that farm PvP badges, because to the majority of PvP'ers, badges are secondary to the action of PvP. Obviously, Southern_Comfort attacked "badgers."
Now if you want to neglect that fact, sure, point the blame at me for starting a "PvP'er vs Badger" war. Obviously you have nothing better to do than keep this going. Truth be told, I have nothing better to do, so I can go on as long as needed to defend my point and defend those that are being attacked... in our own forum.
Sure, I can see the hostility if I came into the PvP forum and blasted PvP'ers.. but that's not the case.
And to insult my intelligence by taking a quote I quoted from the PvP forums and trying to make it my own comment.. well, bully for you! Intelligence runs deep, my friend. Let's hope you scratch the surface.
Clearly those comments you quoted were sarcastic in nature. If you had difficulty seeing that, then I can see why you are so defensive.
As I said, there is no winning. There is only an overabundance of conflicting opinion.
And Easy Street... for the record, I have no problem with PvP'ers and how they play. That's why I made the post I did. Because I find it unbelievable that a PvP'er would care about how I "badge."
I feel that if a PvP'er wants to come into the badge forum, threadjack something by taking the post 180 degrees from its original destination, then to lambast badge hunters for how they play, then they should be aware that I will not stand by while he attacks the community of "badgers." If you want to call me an idiot for defending others that I enjoy spending my time around, then so be it.
But if you want to say that I am trying to separate the playerbase because of my comments, I can only quote Southern_Comfort once again:
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People that farm for pvp badges are the ultimate gaming lowlife.
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I guess farming for PvP badges means more than farming for PvP recipes or farming for influence/infamy. Lock me up and throw away the key.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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Southern Comfort seems ticked because he obviously likes to PvP and might not be happy with the fact that players going into zones for badges only will be in and out faster and just lead to less players in the zones, I know that is how I feel
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The problem with this point, Easy_Street, is that if those that are farming this set of badges choose not to obtain the badges at all because they don't wish to obtain them "the hard way" (as Southern Comfort suggests), then there is just the less amount of people in the zone that you describe after they leave. So, this begs the rhetorical question: Which situation is truly preferable for you? Do you want more targets in general or less targets who are more willing to participate?
--Rad
/whereami:
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Well, it seems Southern_Comfort only has an issue with people sporting "Disruptor" or other pvp related badges as a badge title if they've farmed it.
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As a die-hard badger (arguably the most successful on my server), I must say that I totally resent any implication that I had to "farm" for the Disruptor badge!
I got it through a bug, like all the respectable badge whores did when it first came out.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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Well, it seems Southern_Comfort only has an issue with people sporting "Disruptor" or other pvp related badges as a badge title if they've farmed it.
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As a die-hard badger (arguably the most successful on my server), I must say that I totally resent any implication that I had to "farm" for the Disruptor badge!
I got it through the initial requirements, like all the respectable badge whores did when it first came out.
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Fixed that for you, Zub.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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As a die-hard badger (arguably the most successful on my server), I must say that I totally resent any implication that I had to "farm" for the Disruptor badge!
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Hey, my scrapper got the healing badges legit.... well, the first three and almost the fourth one.
I FARMED THE REST! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Badges arent a status sybmol because you can use work arounds and cheats to get em. If I meet 2 people with similar badges and person A got them through cheating and person B obtained them the hard way and I am looking for an 8th person for a TF or team I pick person B simply because it says a lot about someone's drive to achive as opposed to his eagerness to cheat
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So, just as an idle comment, I have to ask...
Did you "earn" every single badge, accolade, etc the "right" way? Or did you farm for some of them?
For instance, if you wanted the Archmage badge, would you do it the "non-cheating" way, of ONLY killing the 3 little illusionists the MI's spawn per fight? Because clearly, sitting and "farming" them cheapens the efforts of those who got it the "right" way, repeatedly doing Carnie missions until they finally got all 500 kills, right?
Likewise, with certain redside accolades, such as Born in Battle or High Pain Threshold, you of course never "farmed" any of the damage taken/debt paid off badges, right? You honestly earned every last point of damage you took, never sitting in lava somewhere or going into rest-mode in front of a weak mob that would build up your damage taken. Of course not, that would be cheating, wouldn't it? I'd much rather have someone on my team that earned everything the old-fashioned way, without any of these "cheating" IOs or anything! If you didn't earn all your badges with just SO's, and only doing the arcs when you got them (no using Oro, that's cheating!), then clearly you're not as skilled (or "leet", if you'd like) as other players.
Badges aren't "status symbols" unless you WANT them to be. If you perceive them to be some sort of status symbol, more power to you, but other people don't. They want the title because it fits their character, or because they're after all the badges, or because they want the power(s) that having that badge gives them.
But then, I guess you're one of those types that sits around complaining about how easy kids have it these days, and how when YOU were young you walked to school in the snow twenty miles, up hill both ways, barefoot, with wolves chasing after you, right?
Seems silly to me to try and be all holier-than-thou about a tiny fraction of badges, just because you feel your pvp epeen might be threatened. Maybe it's a guy thing.
The Mastermind Project
Leveling every primary/secondary to 50!
50: Bot/FF, Bot/Dark, Ninja/Trap, Merc/Pain, Necro/Dark, Thug/Dark
Works in Progress: Thug/TA, Merc/Poison, Thug/Pain, Ninja/Pain, Thug/Storm
wumpusrat, kindly learn how the forums work.
Your post says it is a quote of *ME* and it is *NOT*.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
That's because I copy-pasted the quote and just entered the text into the quick-reply box at the bottom. So it appended the last poster's name to the RE: bit.
I know how the forums work. 
The Mastermind Project
Leveling every primary/secondary to 50!
50: Bot/FF, Bot/Dark, Ninja/Trap, Merc/Pain, Necro/Dark, Thug/Dark
Works in Progress: Thug/TA, Merc/Poison, Thug/Pain, Ninja/Pain, Thug/Storm
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just because you feel your pvp epeen
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Seems like we have another idiot
Im really sorry if you did not fit into a social group growing up but just because you feel like you are part of a group here (The Badgers) doesn't mean you need to be such a moron and show a low level of intellegence by slinging mud at what you consider "Outsiders". Whether its the PvPrs or Farmers, no one is any different than you.
Seems silly to me to continue to your little battle because you think your Badge epeen might be threatened. Must just be in ignorant thing
I am willing to bet things go a lot better around you when you just dont speak.
So, i'm going to summarize the PvPers standpoint of this arguement and then the Badgers:
PvPer: I earned my badge through many hours of PvP. I did not farm my badge I "earned" it through many defeats and many wins and I believe everyone should have to earn it the same way I did.
Badger: I don't give a flying [censored] how you earned your e-peen. I just want the badge. Get the [censored] out of my forum thread, crawl back under your lolPvP rock and let me farm the badges if that's how I want to "earn" my badge. If a badge is how you measure your self-worth, that isn't my problem.
Is that about right?
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Is that about right?
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I can't speak for the PvP'ers, but for me, I /kind/ of think the way you described for badgers. My only difference is that I don't think earning it in any one fashion takes away from the prize.
I think of it this way:
CoH/CoV is the main game with many mini-games within it. Badges were made into a mini-game, much like PvP was. The problem that happened was when the developers decided to tie these two mini-games together.
Both groups of players have their own way to satisfy their cravings for their mini-game. PvP'ers fight other players; badge hunters hunt for badges.
But when you are forced to play another mini-game to earn the prize for your own mini-game, it leads to flared tempers because you are taken out of your element.
But badge hunters found a way to take the unknown element and work with it. That made PvP'ers upset because we weren't playing their game anymore. We were still playing our game to earn our prize from within their realm.
I think the thing that bothers PvP'ers the most is that they aren't necessary for badgers to obtain the prize even if it's within the PvP'ers domain. Sure, badgers can grind out the badges over the course of 2-3 months of strict PvP, but with each issue we are given more and more badges to earn. Since badges are our mini-game, we want to get them done and move onto the next level of the game.
I've seen both sides: I've seen badge-hunters enter PvP zones and declare they are off limits because they are only their for the badges. I've seen PvP'ers freak out beyond belief when badge hunters don't bother PvP'ing in a PvP zone.
There's no winning either way because no matter how you play, by someone else's definition, you are playing wrong.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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Is that about right?
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I can't speak for the PvP'ers, but for me, I /kind/ of think the way you described for badgers. My only difference is that I don't think earning it in any one fashion takes away from the prize.
I think of it this way:
CoH/CoV is the main game with many mini-games within it. Badges were made into a mini-game, much like PvP was. The problem that happened was when the developers decided to tie these two mini-games together.
Both groups of players have their own way to satisfy their cravings for their mini-game. PvP'ers fight other players; badge hunters hunt for badges.
But when you are forced to play another mini-game to earn the prize for your own mini-game, it leads to flared tempers because you are taken out of your element.
But badge hunters found a way to take the unknown element and work with it. That made PvP'ers upset because we weren't playing their game anymore. We were still playing our game to earn our prize from within their realm.
I've seen both sides: I've seen badge-hunters enter PvP zones and declare they are off limits because they are only their for the badges. I've seen PvP'ers freak out beyond belief when badge hunters don't bother PvP'ing in a PvP zone.
There's no winning either way because no matter how you play, by someone else's definition, you are playing wrong.
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I sensationalized the badgers thought pattern because the PvPers arguement sounds ironicly similar to the PvErs arguement against farmers.
Badgers see the PvP badges as badges no different from any other badge. PvPers see the PvP badges as something more.
Here's the catch, neither party is wrong. However, what i'm seeing is the PvPers QQing about Badgers diminishing the value of the PvP badge.
it isn't the fault of the Badger for diminishing the value of the badge. It's the fault of the "Developer" for not putting measures in place to only allow PvPers to earn that badge.
In conclusion, if you are angry about badgers diminishing the "value" of your badge. Don't blame the badger, they're just trying to earn another badge, the arguement of whether they are earning it the way PvPers feel it "should" be earned is a moot one. Blame the developer.
Check GuildWars PvP Auras for an example of the right way to reward PvP play.
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I've seen both sides: I've seen badge-hunters enter PvP zones and declare they are off limits because they are only their for the badges. I've seen PvP'ers freak out beyond belief when badge hunters don't bother PvP'ing in a PvP zone.
There's no winning either way because no matter how you play, by someone else's definition, you are playing wrong.
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I found a way. I don't like PvP but went into the zones and spent a lot of time there (especially RV) to get the badges. While I don't like PvP, I respec'ed my badger for it specifically and (fortunately) he's a scrapper.
When PvP'ers attacked me, I acted like a crazed wolverine, doing my best to kill them and, more than once, chasing them halfway across the zone to finish them off. I remember a corruptor in Warburg who attacked me alone. She (female toon) managed to escape initially but I found her 'taking a knee' three blocks away and killed her.
The people looking for easy rep would never come near me again. The "real PvP'ers" would generally be impressed that I put up a good fight, even if I lost, and would be favorably disposed toward me. One actual conversation went:
"Damn, Iron, you're pretty good."
"Thanks, but I'm really only here for the badges."
"LOL! Cool, I'll leave you alone."
More than once, I had a stalker ask me how I saw them. I guess they were newb stalkers. I explained that I had Tactics AND Focused Accuracy and had numerous conversations on powers and tactics with PvP'ers.
I still don't like PvP.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Badges arent a status sybmol because you can use work arounds and cheats to get em. If I meet 2 people with similar badges and person A got them through cheating and person B obtained them the hard way and I am looking for an 8th person for a TF or team I pick person B simply because it says a lot about someone's drive to achive as opposed to his eagerness to cheat
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Quick question: How can a person prove "how" they earn badges in this game?
Answer that one and I might accept that your argument about the "proper" way to earn little collections of pixels on the screen of a computer game has any bearing on anyone whatsoever.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀