This is coming from the experience of a level 50 Sonic Res/Nrg Blast/Psi Defender so take it as you will.
1. The Sonic Siphon thing I am hesitant to agree with because that's a very powerful ability to have at level one. Maybe if it was pushed to a higher tier i could get behind it.
2. Yes. That would be fantastic. Though I usually work with scrappers and tanks who stay in the fray, that would be amazing.
3. Hmm. Interesting suggestion, but that could also be abused/used for griefing teammates. I, personally, think that power was thrown in there because there wasn't another idea for a Sonic power and I wish Sonic had another debuffing ability, or possible a mag 2 stun, similar to screech in that slot, maybe in cone format. But I don't think they'll mess with that power. It's easily skipped and doesn't affect gameplay if you don't have it
4. Yes. I agree with this. Though, it's only sort of protection against Psi since some Psi damage is positionally untyped, but still, it offers protection. I think Psi resistance should also be added to the bubble for the simple fact that Sonic Res is much more prone to get beaten by it's weakness (Sleeps) since the other set that shares the glaring hole (Force Fields) can avoid the attack casting it.
In the end it's not fair to strictly compare Force Field and Sonic, since Sonic offeres more debuffs than FF does (by a WIDE margin), but I feel Sonic should, at least, get some Psi Resistance to help compete with FF, if not other sets, in both the ally shields AND the big bubble.
Just my 2 inf.
1. That would certainly be more useful.
2. I can see that being equally useful.
3. This would compeletely destroy my only reason for being a sonic. The character was created explicitly to leverage caging and find as many uses and tactics for it as possible. She was built exclusively for caging on the STF where she can perma-cage 2 Patrons and AoE-Perma-sleep a 3'd (or more) patron. Then once the yellow is down perma-cage LR until the team is ready to deal with him. You could translate this to the LRSF as sleeping as many as you can cone/aoe and perma-caging 2 others.
4. This hole has always been here, sure I won't complain if it gets plugged, but I won't hold my breath either.
5. I'd love to see liquefy on a shorter timer, making it considerably more useful. As-is the timer is entirely too long.
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5. I'd love to see liquefy on a shorter timer, making it considerably more useful. As-is the timer is entirely too long.
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Also, I would like it be a target based AOE rather than location.
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1. That would certainly be more useful.
2. I can see that being equally useful.
3. This would compeletely destroy my only reason for being a sonic. The character was created explicitly to leverage caging and find as many uses and tactics for it as possible. She was built exclusively for caging on the STF where she can perma-cage 2 Patrons and AoE-Perma-sleep a 3'd (or more) patron. Then once the yellow is down perma-cage LR until the team is ready to deal with him. You could translate this to the LRSF as sleeping as many as you can cone/aoe and perma-caging 2 others.
4. This hole has always been here, sure I won't complain if it gets plugged, but I won't hold my breath either.
5. I'd love to see liquefy on a shorter timer, making it considerably more useful. As-is the timer is entirely too long.
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DAMN! I knew I should have added Sonic Cage to my 2nd Assault Build... ugh....
I have a high level Sonic/ Def (47), a /Sonic Troller (50) and am working on a mid level /Sonic Corr (36) right now and I agree that it seems like it's missing a little oomph. I'm comfortable with the +Res for the Defender and Troller. I know Corr buffs are basically the same as Troller buffs, but it "feels" like the Corr needs more +Res buff.
The meat and potatos of Sonic is Resistance buffs and debuffs. As you say, 42-ish percent +Res is very nice, but hardly turns a team into god-mode. And the -Res debuffs range from very nice (with an aggro magnet meleer) to almost irrelevant (without the aggro magnet meleer). Playing TA recently, I thought I was creating far more -Res debuffs, and on my terms at that. By that I mean I could dictate where the debuffs would be, rather than relying on a teammate. So, solid status protection, decent buffs, inconsistent debuffs and a mixed bag of tricks is what you get. I'm content with those for the Troller and Defender, but the Corrupter version just doesn't seem to add enough to a team.
That does all change when a 2nd /Sonic (or Thermal) Corr joins, then your team is in god-mode.
That said, I like your suggestions 1 and 2. I'm fine with Sonic Cage as is though. Easy to skip, but if you want it, it does what it does very very well. Psi +Res I'll take, but not lobby for.
And for sure Liquefy needs a serious reduction on the timer.
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... I knew I should have added Sonic Cage to my 2nd Assault Build... ugh....
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It's not as easy as it sounds.
First: You MUST have HAMI-Os to enhance the cage. 1 to 3 depending on Controller vs Defender vs Corruptor vs the level of targets. I've never messed around with it enough to determine the exact number needed. I went overkill with 3 L52 Hamis and 3 L50 IO Recharge along with a perma-hasten build.
Second: Without a heavy IO build you can only cage 1 and sleep 1 (barely). It's the IOs that make it possible to double that.
Third: *IF* you miss, and there's always that 5% chance, it all goes to hades in a handbag rather quickly.
I thank all of you for your comments. I also agree that sonic resonance for corruptors seem to lack some oomph.
In terms of my suggestions:
1. Making sonic siphon a cone targeted AoE...you're right in that the power would have to be balanced against everything else. It's a bit unfair that sonic would get a -res at level 1, but bear in mind that dark miasma gets tar patch at level 2 and it's a higher -res (30%). It's why I think you'd have to increase recharge times and endurance costs to compensate. Also, tar patch is pretty much auto hit, and sonic siphon can still miss.
2. I don't see too much complaint about idea number 2 (givng disurption field a lingering -res effect).
3. Idea of sonic cage being ally targetable. Yeah, I think the griefing potential of this makes me want to withdraw that suggestion. While I'd find it useful, on further consideration, this is probably not a good idea.
4. Adding psi resists to shields (and possibly to sonic dispersion), seems like you're divided on this one. It's a nice to have, but not something that people would be excited about one way or another.
5. A few of you have piped up about liquefy having a shorter recharge cycle. That's an idea I can definitely get behind as well.
My suggestion on Sonic Siphon would be to make it an 8 foot AoE similar to Acid Arrow. I think that would be more balanced than a 30 degree cone.
I'm coming from a defender perspective as well, but here are my thoughts.
1. Sonic Siphon is potent enough as is, but I'd like to see its base accuracy increased to something like 1.2. It only does one thing and it has a longish recharge. Better make sure it hits.
2. Sounds good. Interestingly, Disruption Field used to draw aggro to the caster, not the recipient. No fun.
3. Nah. Too easy to use for griefing purposes.
4. Psi +resistance would definitely be handy, as would reducing the recharge time on Liquefy.
Oh, btw, Sonic Repulsion surrounds an ally with the repel field, not you. Put it on a stalker for the lulz.
1. Agreed
2. I agree, but I really don't see this much of an issue at the moment, expecially so if change #1 occurs
3. Hell no. A better idea would be either change Sonic Cage or Sonic Repulsion into a PPF type of power. Honestly though ST intangible powers should probably be changed to auto-cancel after so many actions have been negated against the target, so that if misused by players or npcs then at least it will eventually break if you keep beating on it instead of having to wait for the full duration.
4. Agreed, although psi damage is incredibly rare and when it does show up it's relatively low damage compared to elemental or physical attacks. It's not a major issue as overall power loss from Sonic Cage and Sonic Repulsion being in the set and the ally-dependences of Sonic Haven/Barrier, and Clarity
Main issue with Sonic and FF when compared other support sets is that the "Core" powers (EX: Sonic Siphon, Force Bolt, Liquify, etc.) generally aren't powerful and practical enough to make up for the inclusion of entirely optional fluff powers (Sonic Repulsion, Sonic Cage, Detention Field, Repulsion Field and Force Bubble). Kinetics however has enough impact overall to easily handle the inclusion of Inertial Reduction and Repel into the set both on a team and off a team, FF and Sonic especially lack that kind of balance.
I pretty much agree with everything you posted and then some. I love Sonic and it irks me that it's so underpowered, both by the numbers, and by perception.
- make siphon a toggle, an aoe, or an cone, don't care which
- boost haven/barrier, better yet, turn them into AoE buffs
- make cage a toggle, or just make it a standard hold
- can't think of anything to do to to saturn rings, it's awesome
- love the idea giving Dispersion a lingering buff
- Repulsion... ug. Awfulness. At least give it a debuff a la Hurricane.
- Clarity give this a small heal a la O2 Boost, or make it an AoE buff. Then switch it with Siphon in the order.
- Reduce Liquefy's recharge.
Even if they did all of these things, the set still wouldn't come close to kin, rad, or storm, in utility or desirability, which illustrates just how much it needs a major buff.
I'm dissapointed,
after reading the title I was expecting something to do with eating babies. Now all I see is some pretty rational arguments to improve a slightly uninspiring set.
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I'm dissapointed,
after reading the title I was expecting something to do with eating babies. Now all I see is some pretty rational arguments to improve a slightly uninspiring set.
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How about changing all the sounds to the sound of babies being eaten alive?
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I'm dissapointed,
after reading the title I was expecting something to do with eating babies. Now all I see is some pretty rational arguments to improve a slightly uninspiring set.
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How about changing all the sounds to the sound of babies being eaten alive?
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This.
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1. That would certainly be more useful.
2. I can see that being equally useful.
3. This would compeletely destroy my only reason for being a sonic. The character was created explicitly to leverage caging and find as many uses and tactics for it as possible. She was built exclusively for caging on the STF where she can perma-cage 2 Patrons and AoE-Perma-sleep a 3'd (or more) patron. Then once the yellow is down perma-cage LR until the team is ready to deal with him. You could translate this to the LRSF as sleeping as many as you can cone/aoe and perma-caging 2 others.
4. This hole has always been here, sure I won't complain if it gets plugged, but I won't hold my breath either.
5. I'd love to see liquefy on a shorter timer, making it considerably more useful. As-is the timer is entirely too long.
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Agreed.
I also wanted to add this: Defense to psy will not be added to FF, in its individual bubbles perhaps because that defense can be provided by Fortitude in Empths plus Dispersion field in FF, add to that the various to hit debuffs in the game.
Resistance to psy will probably not be provided by the Sonic Resonance set because Dark Miasma can provide that and Pain Domination can provide that as well.
As a Dev, perhaps you don't want a set to provide solid defense vs all in only one set, and you don't want to provide solid resist to all in one set. You would want different sets to cover different holes and encourage others to play different powersets for different purposes.
My two cents on Liquify:
1. Make the power do yet another resistance debuff. This is auto; no accuracy check needed for this to happen.
2. Hold, include the acc check for this effect.
3. Moderate DoT damage, accuracy check for this as well.
Keep the recharge as is, but include the above. That way we can justify the long recharge time.
Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
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My two cents on Liquefy:
1. Make the power do yet another resistance debuff. This is auto; no accuracy check needed for this to happen.
2. Hold, include the acc check for this effect.
3. Moderate DoT damage, accuracy check for this as well.
Keep the recharge as is, but include the above. That way we can justify the long recharge time.
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Meh, I'd much rather have Liquefy be something that can be used every fight or nearly other fight rather simply making it more powerful. It's useful as it is, it just needs to be useful more frequently.
I rather not have it be as meh as it is now and make it better/a bit more powerful and justify the long recharge for a mediocre power as it is.
The way I propose Liquify be, would be comparable to volcanic gasses. I did not say identical, just comparable. Also, AoE holds, for the vast majority of cases, if not all of them, have these sort of recharge times, so it is completely normal and fair, according to the devs. This would be something they would probably consider and a bit more justified.
Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
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My two cents on Liquefy:
1. Make the power do yet another resistance debuff. This is auto; no accuracy check needed for this to happen.
2. Hold, include the acc check for this effect.
3. Moderate DoT damage, accuracy check for this as well.
Keep the recharge as is, but include the above. That way we can justify the long recharge time.
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Meh, I'd much rather have Liquefy be something that can be used every fight or nearly other fight rather simply making it more powerful. It's useful as it is, it just needs to be useful more frequently.
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Liquefy for defenders is already radically more powerful than the corruptor/controller version. On average a power is going to be 20% to 25% stronger for defenders than corruptors but it's 30% stronger in this rare case.
Here is how I would shift the power:
Defenders values 35.7% base -> 30% base (20% bonus over corr values)
Recharge 300 seconds -> 180 seconds (same as oil slick arrow)
Number 3 is the only one I disagree with. The rest sounds good, particularly the cone/targeted aoe idea of siphon. This is a set that can't really deal with the end cost of leadership IMO since distortion and the big bubble suck so much end, not to mention those who take the end sucking repel ability which has limited use.
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I think sonic resonance is ok.
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3. Make sonic cage workable on teammates. Being able to cage them and save them from defeat, to me, would be more tactically useful than being able to cage opponents. Most teams actually dislike caging if they're steamrolling.
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Detention can be improved for other power sets as well, not just sonic cage. I'm not sure if I would like to be caged. There are suggestions to make it a toggle, which I think would be nice. If it is a toggle, it may need to work like phase shift which will detoggle after a certain period of time.
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4. Provide psi resistance in the ally shields.
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Doesn't sound thematic to sonic. But it worth a try to see if the dev would yield a bit.
5. A faster-recharging liquefy would be nice.
I think they might be too busy with proliferation too even look at this thread.
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4. Provide psi resistance in the ally shields.
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Doesn't sound thematic to sonic. But it worth a try to see if the dev would yield a bit.
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It does sound thematic to Clarity!
A perfect power for having +Psionic resistance is Clarity. Your mind and ears are so sound that other mental abilities have a hard time maniplating you!
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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4. Provide psi resistance in the ally shields.
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Doesn't sound thematic to sonic. But it worth a try to see if the dev would yield a bit.
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It does sound thematic to Clarity!
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It is very thematic against confusion. It can be related to the mind, I'm not sure that it goes all the way to provide psionic resistance. If it does, maybe clear mind from empathy can provide psionic resistance as well.
When I said that it's not quite thematic, I were actually referring to the shields as I quoted above. Sonic barrier, sonic haven and sonic dispersion don't sound like a barrier for psionic attacks. If the power set can provide psionic resistance, I'm not sure that I want it in clarity which only lasts for 90 seconds. In fact, if it would be in clarity, I might not even want the resistance added. 
Recently, I've respec'ed my old sonic/sonic corruptor (the first /sonic on Virute, maybe among the first five made in the game) into IOs after having a build largely using SOs and SHOs.
It's made a noticeable improvement in the individual improvement of the character but little progress in her ability to help teams.
Sonic resonance provides a grab bag of helpful powers:
* Resistance shields which provide roughly 24% resistance to smash/lethal/fire/cold/energy/neg energy/toxic
* A single target -res power (Sonic Siphon) that provides -22.5 res which does not stack upon itself.
* Sonic cage - a cage power that traps your foe (which in my opinion, only has limited and situational uses)
* Disruption field - an ally cast toggle which provides your teammates with -22.5% resistance to all things within 15 feet. Useful for brutes, stalkers, some MM pets. Largely useless for corruptors, some dominators.
* Sonic repulsion - like recycled power from kinetics and force field, surrounding you with a repel field.
* Sonic dispersion - anti-mez and resistance toggle centered on the sonic user. Provides about 18% resistance to all but psi and protects against holds, stuns, immobilizes.
* Clarity - a fast activating clone of clear mind. Overlaps with sonic dispersion since it also protects against holds/stuns/immobilizes but also protects against fears, sleeps and confuses.
* Liquefy - a location based pet summon that provides knockback, -defense, -tohit, -recharge, holds and does damage. A fairly good power but on a long recharge.
While they look pretty good on paper, the reality of the powers work different in practice. Some of the issues I have with the set are as follows:
* Resistance shields by themselves aren't enough to provide enough mitigation. Sure, if your team stays close to you, you can provide them 24% (shields) + 18% (sonic dispersion). 42% resistance is nothing to sneeze at. However, in reality, team members will move in and out of your sonic bubble constantly, and in most cases won't get the full benefit of your powers. Yes, the shields do stack with patron shields but these are only available level 40+. Some brutes and stalkers benefit from the shielding more than others depending on the type of secondary they have.
* -Resistance powers are rather awkward to use. While sonic siphon is a good single target -res, it doesn't stack and only provides -res to a single target. Meanwhile, your other major source of -res is disruption field which requires a cooperative melee based teammate. Used together, they can generate -45%, which is excellent but the times when you can get that is rather situational. It requires a melee ally being within 15 feet of a foe in which you've hit with sonic siphon. Only one foe will have -45 resistance. This is pretty good against AV targets and when you have a brute on your team, but not so good in general play or if you're teamed with mostly corruptors and doms.
So proposed buffs:
1. Make sonic siphon a short ranged, small cone. 30' range, maybe 30 degree arc, have it be able to hit 10 targets. Increase endurance cost and recharge time to compensate.
2. Make disruption field have a lingering -res effect much like hurricane has a lingering -tohit effect. This way you're not dependent on a brute, but perhaps a cooperative corruptor who's willing to jump in and then jump back out of the fray.
3. Make sonic cage workable on teammates. Being able to cage them and save them from defeat, to me, would be more tactically useful than being able to cage opponents. Most teams actually dislike caging if they're steamrolling.
4. Provide psi resistance in the ally shields. I see no reason why this should be such a glaring hole in the coverage, since for all intents and purposes, the resistance shields are inferior to force field shields (which offer positional defense hence psi protection), similar to thermal shields whereas the thermal corruptor can also heal damage, comparable to cold domination shields whereas the cold domination corruptor can mitigate incoming damage substantially with debuffs. Only sonic resonance have little ability to mitigate incoming damage unless you count liquefy, a level 38 power that is on a 300 second recharge cycle.
Anyway, pick apart...