Best Tank for DPS and AV soloing?

I think she was using the Power Analyzer Mk III temp power. You can buy it in the Auction House if its up for sale.

[ QUOTE ]
I said you could use the Ice (sort of simulating ice breath) for an APP. So go ahead and as Jean Luc would say, "Make it So." Also, would lazer beam eyes be ok to use? It has the -def. but not sure on how that balances vs DPS.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I missed that somehow. I'm no longer thinking that Ice is better for DPS, but it's competitive, and definitely is better for secondary effects for normal play, so I'll poke at it.

Laser Beam Eyes are quite a ways down on the DPS scale, and are a longish attack, interrupting better ones. The main advantage is the Achilles' Heel proc. On scrappers, the answer is still "don't do it". On tankers, I suspect the answer is the same, but I don't know for sure. I'll poke at that as well.

Thank you!

[ QUOTE ]
I think she was using the Power Analyzer Mk III temp power. You can buy it in the Auction House if its up for sale.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I missed the question before, but that's exactly what I was using. (MkIII is important, too, since it's the only one that can analyze up to lvl54s.) The temp itself was pretty cheap to buy, but when I "buy it now"ed the required salvage, it cost me ~400k.

(Be patient and let bids sit when testing is at stake? Never!)


[edit: Btw, I'd use it before the fight to check stats, not during. I think monitoring my own stats are far more vital. As an alternative, you can also grab Culex's Enemy Resistance Spreadsheet so you don't have to burn the money on a temp power. ]

Dude, anyone tell you how awesome you are lately No, but Seriously, thanks for all the help you do Rock, and when I get this guy going, I'd like to team with you Werner.

Also, everyone else that has participated and given there MORE than 2 infl, THANKS!!! Ya'll are very awesome to this community and just want to give ya'll praise for doing what could be considered jobs. . . jobs, that you don't get paid for. So, Good on You mates!

Ouch ouch ouch! Ring of Fire costs an extra 0.25 EPS for an extra 3.9 DPS, which is to say it's 15.6 DPE for the added damage. That's horrible DPE, and endurance use simply won't be sustainable.

Anyone have the stats on the Panacea proc? The in-game description doesn't seem to say the % chance or how much health and stamina it adds when it fires. It's not in Mids', of course, and I couldn't seem to find it on Red Tomax's page.

Voila!

[ QUOTE ]
Self:

* Regeneration 0.20000 Melee_Ones for 120s If on a PvP map
Effect does not stack from same caster

Target:

* 0.67000 Melee_Heal Heal (20% chance) If NOT on a PvP map [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]

* Endurance 0.07500 Melee_Ones (20% chance) [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs] [Non-resistable]

[/ QUOTE ]

On a tank...

You are healed by the Panacea effect for 64.58 points of healing.

Uplift grants you 7.5 points of endurance with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance!
You grant Uplift an infusion of 7.5 endurance!

Cool, thanks. So a 20% chance every 10 seconds of 7.5 endurance, 20% * 7.5 / 10 = 0.15 EPS. So swapping the Panacea in is enough to make the build almost sustainable (0.06 EPS endurance burn flat out), but not enough to make up for switching to Ring of Fire for the extra damage. So I'll call the 135 DPS good enough for comparison purposes. Mind you, I would totally switch to Ring of Fire for an even slightly more general purpose build. You'd probably never run out of endurance in normal play.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious why you don't use ring of fire. It is not a particularly endurance efficient attack, but it has very good dpa and in a discussion of AV's having an immob is very valuable as nothing kills dps like when they run around.

For dpa ring is just a shade lower than haymaker.

In the chain of Knockout Blow -> Haymaker -> Fire Blast -> Punch -> Haymaker -> Fire Blast
Sub it in for punch/boxing.
Thinking 5 piece decimation (including bu proc)+ 1 dam/end.

Should increase dps a bit, but would tax the end bar more too. Deci's boost max end tho, might help a bit.

Mostly I'm just thinking that when that bugger wants to start cruising on you if you are already just a smidgen over the threshold and actually denting it, then the drop in dps could really hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, unless Mids' is wrong, Ring of Fire doesn't actually have good DPA (damage per Arcanatime). It has five ticks of 9.79 damage each. According to the formula we worked out earlier, that's an average of 9.79 * 4 * (1-0.8^5) = 26.33 damage. It takes (roundup(1.17/0.132)+1)*0.132 = 1.32 seconds. That's a DPA of only 19.94, which is less than HALF of Haymaker, and below Punch, Jab, and pretty much any other alternative.

Now, if all five ticks hit, it would do 48.95 damage, which would be 37.08 DPA, which would indeed be competitive. But that's why I was asking how the fire DoTs worked earlier in the thread. Is Ring of Fire an exception to the rule? If so, yes, it would be a better attack.

[/ QUOTE ]

As mentioned ring is guaranteed dot.
it's dpa is 37.05, which like I said is a bit below haymaker (42.5), but way above boxing/punch (25.6/30.69).
It's also fire damage.

Av's run on me all the time when they start to die on my fire/ss even when I DON'T use burn. Must be the taunt aura difference. But in the case of fire, dark, stone, and maybe ice they likely wouldn't be running their taunt aura in a solo situation vs an AV.

Anywho, it was just a thought as you were asking about max damage chains. I like ring on my fire/ss (i also get FE benefiting too), but invinc is a different beast.


FYI
Fire attacks with cancel on miss:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Ranged Melee PBAOE
Blast scorch FSC
Ball FS
Blaze BoF
B Bolt Cremate
GFS

</pre><hr />

Guaranteed dot
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> Ranged Melee PBAOE
Flares Incin Combustion
Fbreath Consume
Rain Hot feet
Ring Burn
Char B aura
Cages

</pre><hr />

Other:
nuke, iirc it has like a 99% chance of fire dot, but then it also procs chances for extra damage (like other nukes) at like 75%, 50%

OK, for Energy Melee, it looks like the best DPS chain is:

Energy Transfer -&gt; Energy Punch -&gt; Total Focus -&gt; Energy Punch

The main problem with it is that it requires +299% recharge in Total Focus. That's nearly impossible, and probably not worth all the necessary compromises when you could do this instead:

Energy Transfer -&gt; Bone Smasher -&gt; Total Focus -&gt; Bone Smasher

And do slightly less DPS at only +216% recharge in Total Focus, plus have a stronger and more reliable stun.

So, for people who actually have a clue about Energy Melee, does that look right?

Are you intentionally attempting to stay at 3 attacks? Due to the heavy hitting/high recharge nature of the set, it usually is needed to have more attacks than the average set. (if you noted it and I missed I apologize, have not been following the thread 100%)

I'd attempt to make a chain that includes both, Bone Smasher AND energy Punch.

I generally try to stick with as few attacks as I can get away with, yes, but it isn't a requirement. It just tends to be a feature of high DPS scrapper builds, so it's kind of my default choice, and it also often allows for greater flexibility in the rest of the build. That's important on scrappers because you need to use most of the build to just stay alive when fighting AVs. It might not be so important on tankers.

So let's see. Energy Transfer -&gt; Bone Smasher -&gt; Total Focus -&gt; Energy Punch would work, and is technically a better DPS chain while still having achievable recharge. Thing is, it would only do about 3% higher DPS while requiring a significantly higher investment in recharge (253% vs. 216%) in power choices (1) and slots (5). I'm guessing that I can easily make up the 3% raw DPS difference through +damage bonuses. I don't guarantee that I'm right, and to save time I won't be checking all possible alternatives, but it looks like it will be within a few percent either way.

What about Energy Transfer -&gt; Bone Smasher -&gt; Energy Punch -&gt; Total Focus -&gt; Bone Smasher -&gt; Energy Punch? That drops the recharge requirement to almost nothing (+137% in Total Focus). I could drop Hasten and go for Assault and some set bonuses to try to make up the ground lost on raw DPS (about 7%). We'll lose perma Dull Pain, but with all the hit point bonuses available, it might not be that critical a loss. I've never been a huge advocate of perma Dull Pain anyway. Build Up won't happen as frequently.

Eh, I think I'll stick with ET&gt;BS&gt;TF&gt;BS. It's a much easier conversion from the other build, and will probably be within a few percentage points of DPS one way or the other, so it should be good enough for comparison.

Could I get a DPS output for each you listed, even the high recharge, just to see where each one hits, like a High to Low and eveything inbetween, helps you get a good look at what your options are. Once again thanks in advance for your work. If you ever need someone to team with on Freedom, I got every AT covered just about, and every essential for a team covered as well, both blue and red side.

OK, I calculated 122 DPS for Energy Melee vs. 135 for Super Strength. Both are slightly overstated since I pretended they had perma Hasten (about 10 seconds off), but should be comparable.

Here's the spreadsheet.

Here's the Invulnerability/Energy Melee build. Unlike Super Strength, endurance use is sustainable and I squeezed in a travel power.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Werthold: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), HO:Ribo(3), HO:Ribo(13)
Level 1: Barrage -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal(21), Dct'dW-Rchg(21)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Hectmb-Dam%(7), EndRdx-I(9)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam(11), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(11), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Boxing -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(15), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(23), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(23), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(25)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(13), Ksmt-ToHit+(34), Empty(46)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(15), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Rcvry+(17), Mrcl-Heal(19), RgnTis-Regen+(19)
Level 16: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(48), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-End%(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 22: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(25)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(29), HO:Membr(29)
Level 30: Taunt -- Mocking-Acc/Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(34), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(36), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(36), Mocking-Rchg(46)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def(48), RedFtn-EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(39), Mako-Dam%(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 41: Energy Transfer -- Mako-Dmg/Rchg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Mako-Dam%(42), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Chilblain -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(45), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apoc-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet



<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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[ QUOTE ]
But in the case of fire, dark, stone, and maybe ice they likely wouldn't be running their taunt aura in a solo situation vs an AV.

[/ QUOTE ]

YMMV, but I'd always run the damage aura in an AV fight unless I had to keep minions around for AoE buffs like Soul Drain and Dark Regen (especially for Ice as end is not an issue on that powerset). It's about as DPE efficient as ST attacks even against one target, and being on all the time it's free DPS on top of what you already have. An extra 10-15 DPS is big when you're only 30 or 40 DPS above the AV regen.

[ QUOTE ]
YMMV, but I'd always run the damage aura in an AV fight unless I had to keep minions around for AoE buffs like Soul Drain and Dark Regen (especially for Ice as end is not an issue on that powerset). It's about as DPE efficient as ST attacks even against one target, and being on all the time it's free DPS on top of what you already have. An extra 10-15 DPS is big when you're only 30 or 40 DPS above the AV regen.

[/ QUOTE ]

This applies to all but stone. Fire actually yields 4.72 end per ds against a single target as it has higher base damage than other auras.

Dark and Ice both are costing you 5.2 end per DS against a single target.

Given you don't have to worry about recharge on these, they can easily be frankenslotted to max damage, max endurance and extreme end redux.

For this I like:

Sirocco's: ACC/DMG, DMG/END, ACC/DMG/END
Multi Strike's: DMG/END, ACC/END, ACC/DMG/END

These 6 (if you have the room) end in 98.7% damage and end discount enhancement with 93.5% accuracy.

OK, I finished up Fiery Melee using Incinerate -&gt; Greater Fire Sword -&gt; Fire Sword. I also found an error in my Energy Melee calculation. Here's the final tally.

135 DPS Invulnerability/Super Strength
127 DPS Invulnerability/Energy Melee
125 DPS Invulnerability/Fiery Melee

As with Energy Melee, the Fiery Melee build has sustainable endurance use for those long AV fights. All of these are probably overstated by a few DPS because of the incorrect perma Hasten assumption and the likely use of Dull Pain. All of these probably have a margin of error of at least a few percent. Of these, I'd probably personally choose the lowest on the list – no rage crash, no hurting yourself with Energy Transfer, no complicated timing, just go go go. It'll take forever of course, but it will be doable. Also, while I haven't looked at AV resistance recently, I suspect that fewer AVs resist Fire than Smashing.

Spreadsheet

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), HO:Ribo(3), HO:Ribo(13)
Level 1: Scorch -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal(21), Dct'dW-Rchg(21)
Level 4: Fire Sword -- Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg(5), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mako-Dam%(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam(11), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(11), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Boxing -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(15), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(23), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(23), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(25)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(13), Ksmt-ToHit+(34), Empty(46)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(15), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Rcvry+(17), Mrcl-Heal(19), RgnTis-Regen+(19)
Level 16: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(48), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-End%(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 22: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(25)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(29), HO:Membr(29)
Level 30: Taunt -- Mocking-Acc/Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(34), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(36), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(36), Mocking-Rchg(46)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def(48), RedFtn-EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hectmb-Dam%(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Incinerate -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Mako-Dam%(42), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Chilblain -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(45), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apoc-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet



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Soo... Your telling me that based on these numbers, an SD/EM could also solo an AV? They have a taunt aura that increases the damage of their secondary's attack so that means more DPS right? And with EM, you have a damage type that isn't as often resisted. Or at least too much.

Hmm, but you would have to fit Medicine in there somehow.

Fire wouldn't be good with Shields because if you have to use GFS in your chain, then you are taking out the mobs that are fueling your damage increase.

I'm just trying to see if there is another secondary that could solo an AV consistently besides DM. And even then, I think very few people have done it with DM.

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Fire wouldn't be good with Shields because if you have to use GFS in your chain, then you are taking out the mobs that are fueling your damage increase.

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Hmm? GFS is single target. Are you confusing it with FSC?

Oh yeah. I was. Thanks for the correction.

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Soo... Your telling me that based on these numbers, an SD/EM could also solo an AV? They have a taunt aura that increases the damage of their secondary's attack so that means more DPS right? And with EM, you have a damage type that isn't as often resisted. Or at least too much.

Hmm, but you would have to fit Medicine in there somehow.

Fire wouldn't be good with Shields because if you have to use GFS in your chain, then you are taking out the mobs that are fueling your damage increase.

I'm just trying to see if there is another secondary that could solo an AV consistently besides DM. And even then, I think very few people have done it with DM.

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Yes, I suspect that with a good DPS build, a Shield Defense/Energy Melee could solo AVs with no temps, no inspirations. Yes, Shield Defense would pump up the damage. To max it out, though, you'd probably want to surround yourself with minions.

As for the Medicine Pool, I don't have enough experience with tanks or Energy Melee to know for sure. If I'm reading it right, it looks like Energy Melee would eat up half of your regeneration, which doesn't leave much for the AVs. But I suspect that with Fiery Melee, for instance, you might not need the Medicine Pool. Just crank up your hit points and regeneration and you'll probably be OK.

So I guess I'm suggesting that Super Strength, Fiery Melee and Energy Melee are all capable of the DPS required to solo AVs, even without the buff from the Shield Defense primary. I strongly suspect that Dark Melee is a very strong candidate for this as well. Stone Melee shows up at the top of Starsman's charts at 250% recharge, so it might be a strong candidate as well. He also has War Mace up there with the same score as Energy Melee and Fiery Melee. So it seems to me that a lot of tanker combinations should be able to solo AVs with a build focused on the task. Whether anyone wants to actually play a build like that is another question, but if people do, it should be possible.

Well, thanks for all the hard work, it all looks pretty good. I say pretty good, b/c as you know the real test is in the field. I'll try and test these as soon as I can, and post back here. If you already have one of these builds, that does Solo or has Soloed AV's please put your build down here. Thank you all, who helped again.

Yeah, that is my goal. I currently have a SD/War Mace and an SD/DM. I've seen an SD/DM do it, but not the others. I'm thinking of continuing a couple of characters sitting close to the 50s, but I wasn't sure if it was worth the effort or not.

Now that I know that on paper its possible with several different combinations, now its time to try and do it. I gotta give it some thought and see which one I want to try. It's now about looking into the resistances of the different AVs and figuring out which ones you can do.

I'm thinking either Fire or Energy (even with the Energy nerf). War Mace, I don't know. I know that it can do the DPS. It's been my current main lately, but with all the AVs with smashing resistances... I don't know.