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I get annoyed when people dismiss realism in comics out of hand just because people in comics do unrealistic things. One always has to look at realism with the rules of that "reality" in mind.
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I also get annoyed when people think we haven't all heard the "It's a superhero game, there's laser eyes, it can't be realistic!" argument before. News flash, kids: you aren't saying anything a hundred plus people haven't already said, and they probably said it better than you did. Those of us who enjoy some aspect of realism in our superhero stories haven't been convinced by now, and you probably aren't going to be the extra-special person to do it.
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I get annoyed when people dismiss realism in comics out of hand just because people in comics do unrealistic things. One always has to look at realism with the rules of that "reality" in mind.
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I also get annoyed when people think we haven't all heard the "It's a superhero game, there's laser eyes, it can't be realistic!" argument before. News flash, kids: you aren't saying anything a hundred plus people haven't already said, and they probably said it better than you did. Those of us who enjoy some aspect of realism in our superhero stories haven't been convinced by now, and you probably aren't going to be the extra-special person to do it.
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hey warp I have a Alt that needs a home and I never see you on when I am, so I was wondering when and what time...
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I also get annoyed when people think we haven't all heard the "It's a superhero game, there's laser eyes, it can't be realistic!" argument before. News flash, kids: you aren't saying anything a hundred plus people haven't already said, and they probably said it better than you did. Those of us who enjoy some aspect of realism in our superhero stories haven't been convinced by now, and you probably aren't going to be the extra-special person to do it.
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Hence:
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I have heard this argument so many times... It never holds water, one way or another.
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P.S.: To the OP. There are, indeed, such supergroups. I have one, for instance.
Cynics of the world, unite!
Taking Care of the Multiverse
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I also get annoyed when people think we haven't all heard the "It's a superhero game, there's laser eyes, it can't be realistic!" argument before. News flash, kids: you aren't saying anything a hundred plus people haven't already said, and they probably said it better than you did. Those of us who enjoy some aspect of realism in our superhero stories haven't been convinced by now, and you probably aren't going to be the extra-special person to do it.
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Hence:
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I have heard this argument so many times... It never holds water, one way or another.
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P.S.: To the OP. There are, indeed, such supergroups. I have one, for instance.
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Just to clarify, I wasn't disagreeing with you. We're on the same page, here.
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Those of us who enjoy some aspect of realism in our superhero stories haven't been convinced by now, and you probably aren't going to be the extra-special person to do it.
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Similarly, not everyone is convinced that "realism" equates to pessimism, grittiness, emo & angst, and lack of hope. Calling the other styles of play silly and childish doesn't do much work, either.
When you add to that, the "Golden Age" was probably a lot more "realistic" than what is being described (with shootings, torture, etc, with the good guys sticking to their own morality, and heroes raised up by insane parents experimenting on them, being former drug runners, or witnessing their parents slaughtered in an alleyway) and it's no wonder there is confusion over what is being asked for.
For example, I find that to call out something like the X-Men as an example of "realistic" is just hilarious while, at the same time, finding Bill Willingham's old Elementals series might fit the bill (which others might find hilarious).
I'd just like to point out that -true- golden age is not nearly so happy shiny. A lot of people mix up gold and silver, and have golden age being portrayed as more silver aged. The original Batman was golden age - and he -killed- people.
Granted, it might still not be what the original poster is looking for, but its one of those misunderstandings that I feel the occasional need to rectify.
Golden age is pre-comics code. Heroes did kill, depending on the hero, anyway.
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Those of us who enjoy some aspect of realism in our superhero stories haven't been convinced by now, and you probably aren't going to be the extra-special person to do it.
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Similarly, not everyone is convinced that "realism" equates to pessimism, grittiness, emo & angst, and lack of hope. Calling the other styles of play silly and childish doesn't do much work, either.
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I am not sure how "realism" got equated with emo and angst. I hate emo and angst. If I ever write angst, I will shoot myself in the hand and break my keyboard in half.
Realism is realism. Good things happen to bad people. Bad things happen to good people. Occasionally, good things happen to good people.
...
I must say I am partial to pessimism, though.
Cynics of the world, unite!
Taking Care of the Multiverse
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Those of us who enjoy some aspect of realism in our superhero stories haven't been convinced by now, and you probably aren't going to be the extra-special person to do it.
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Similarly, not everyone is convinced that "realism" equates to pessimism, grittiness, emo & angst, and lack of hope. Calling the other styles of play silly and childish doesn't do much work, either.
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I am not sure how "realism" got equated with emo and angst. I hate emo and angst. If I ever write angst, I will shoot myself in the hand and break my keyboard in half.
Realism is realism. Good things happen to bad people. Bad things happen to good people. Occasionally, good things happen to good people.
...
I must say I am partial to pessimism, though.
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I must say from my life long journey I have noticed the people who say to other I hate drama are usually the ones starting it.
personally a little Emotional And a Little Angst are realistic if used right, people do go through dramatic moments, read Shakespeare tell me the greatest playwright in history wrote junk, he used all kinds of EMO and Angst, read Hamlet..
a good story needs every emotion from joy to sorrow.
look at this list of words they are all good.
Acceptance, Agitation, Alarm, Amusement, Anger, Annoyance, Anticipation, Apprehension, Apathy, Arrogance, Anxious
Bitterness, Boredom
Calmness, Cautiousness, Comfort, Contentment, Confidence, Courage
Depression, Determination, Disappointment, Discontentment, Disgust, Desire, Delight
Euphoria, Embarrassment, Envy, Ecstasy
Fear, Friendly, Frustration
Glad, Gratitude, Grief, Guilt
Hate, Happiness, Homesick, Hope, Horror, Humility
Impatient, Inadequate, Irritability
Joy, Jealous
Kindness
Loneliness, Love, Lust
Melancholy
Nervous, Negativity
Pain, Paranoia, Patience, Peace, Phobia, Pity, Pride
Rage, Regret, Remorse, Resentment
Sad, Self-pity, Shame, Shy, Sorrow, Shock, Suffering, Surprise, Suspense
Thrill, Torment
Unhappiness
Vulnerable
Worry
Yearning
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I must say from my life long journey I have noticed the people who say to other I hate drama are usually the ones starting it.
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Um... Yeah.
I especially draw your attention to this quote:
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Some call Dis Continuity in their personal canon when they feel that their time has been wasted after a pointlessly tragic or improperly set-up Shoot The Shaggy Dog or Downer Ending that relies on Character Derailment, Diabolus Ex Machina, or an Outer Limits Twist to pull off. If the Snicket Warning Label offers them a way out, they'll take it. This group will readily admit that art is free to be emotional, even depressing, but only if it is done sufficiently well. After all, while realistic emotion can make a good work great, needless angst makes a mediocre work terrible: It's pretty much generally agreed that cheaply won tears are annoying, and all too often it's a cute dog that needlessly suffers so the author can make a point.
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Not to mention...
Cynics of the world, unite!
Taking Care of the Multiverse
Guess I have to try and clarify again. Realism in comics? Yes they are not realistic but they can have realism. That means touching the aspect of humanity or lack of in every character. It means making well rounded characters, not just heroes are heroes because they are good and villians are villians just cause they are evil. And I am not just talking about the angst antihero, I mean all. You have to touch the humanity these people have, or worse yet the humanity they loose. You are a hero adored by the masses, and this does not affect your self view?
As for the Golden age? I am sorry, but it was almost cowboys and indians or cops and robbers. Sure batman killed badguys, but who cared, they were bad guys. Actually the more badguys he killed the more of a good guy he was. There was no remorse, trauma of taking a life or anything of the kind. And let;s not even start with the bad guys. they were evil cause they were! No reason, no explanaition. they where just bad. Sure you had your pulp exceptions but in the mayority that was it.
Again, take batman, As soon as they began to make his comics more realistic, notice that the first thing to go was the spandex. The uniform became light body armour and the like. And that;s without geting into the psycology.
I know that there are those that love the spandex heroes, personally I don't. Those "realistic groups aparently are more popular in redside than in blue. I have seen in redside a foster home to care for the lost children of the Isles, several (lots) of merc and tech companies, detective agencys and even a porn agency.
Blueside? I had to stop counting the "heroes for a heroic league of spandex heroes of america", every single variety of schoolgirl anime cat girl and enough ninja clans to make you think everone in Japan is a ninja or atleast a decendant of one.
Then I have found a couple of cool concepts. the comunity hero that is not into the limelight, merc agencys that work of the public eye, and even a retirement home of old heroes.
You want your spandex hero, sure, that's fine. But I am looking for an RP admosphere that provides for something else.
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Then I have found a couple of cool concepts. the comunity hero that is not into the limelight, merc agencys that work of the public eye, and even a retirement home of old heroes.
You want your spandex hero, sure, that's fine. But I am looking for an RP admosphere that provides for something else.
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I would try and get a hold of the Guardian Angels, when I frist started playing I was In that SG, the founding started with a idea of a All Female group but it became a group more like what you are looking for, sadly I left COH right as Villains came out and have no knowledge of how the guild is today, but the people at the top I believe are the same as when I was in so they most likely are about the same, now granted one of the 1st Cat girls, and one of the 1st vampire anti-heroes where in that guild but both the players of these characters made it work. for me i have an alt that i want to play that would be perfect for that guild, he's an alien bounty hunter (Warshade) who wants to be a good guy and redeem him self.
Well, I can certainly see where the original poster is coming from. Fully-rounded, well-fleshed-out characters are, in my opinion, the best kinds of characters.
On the OTHER hand, what restricts that to the less Silver-Age kind of characters? Maybe its just that I don't know my comic ages from the different types of hair on Cro-Magnon Man, but I've been happily playing fully fleshed-out characters in a Silver Age SG for a good many years now.
The drink, drugs, and sex-abusing hedonist, non-superpowered woman who knows she'll die sooner or later in the line of duty because she can't keep up with the 'big boys' in her field.
The runaway child who's so scared of her powers, her past and her family that she assumed a false name in every city that she visited in the travel to Paragon City, and who has never admitted her name even to close friends in-game.
The woman who is innundated with the constant pleas for attention and rescue from Dark Astoria, but knows that she's ultimately powerless to help them.
They aren't angsty characters at all, because there's more to them than their backstory. They simply have terrible, horrible circumstances lurking in their backstory that will, eventually, fulminate into entire plot-arcs. But that doesn't interfere with their day-to-day interactions.
There is no limit, no reference, no restriction to an interesting, fully-fleshed-out character save that that you put on them.
The Elysienne; Magical controller
Silent Sickle; Natural scrapper
And many more.
Aenigma Rebis: "Actually, Ely's more like Jean Grey. Only... smart."
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Those of us who enjoy some aspect of realism in our superhero stories haven't been convinced by now, and you probably aren't going to be the extra-special person to do it.
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Similarly, not everyone is convinced that "realism" equates to pessimism, grittiness, emo & angst, and lack of hope. Calling the other styles of play silly and childish doesn't do much work, either.
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Please quote for me where someone said anything along those lines on this thread, prior to your bringing it up.
Wow Elysienne, if you have characters regularly referencing sex, drugs, and boozing, your silver age SG sure does play it lax. Or perhaps isn't clear what silver age means, or has no clue what the comics code was, etc. etc.
Wow.
When you come into a forum and say "these things that you enjoy are unrealistic" (with the attendant implications of unworthiness, etc), you can expect that some people might feel a bit offended and/or defensive. If this was not the reaction you intended to provoke, I suggest that you consider modifying your approach.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Me I find it all very interesting, no flames really just interesting statements, and clarifications I mean I keep forgetting about the pre-comic code area.
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Blueside? I had to stop counting the "heroes for a heroic league of spandex heroes of america", every single variety of schoolgirl anime cat girl and enough ninja clans to make you think everone in Japan is a ninja or atleast a decendant of one.
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Well, I run a (what I consider) realistic supergroup, With very little in the way of heroics and, very notably, no spandex at all. Though I confess to having a few wide-eyed idealists in our ranks.
They are around. A little harder to find than the other type, to be sure, but they certainly exist.
Cynics of the world, unite!
Taking Care of the Multiverse
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Wow Elysienne, if you have characters regularly referencing sex, drugs, and boozing, your silver age SG sure does play it lax. Or perhaps isn't clear what silver age means, or has no clue what the comics code was, etc. etc.
Wow.
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Well, I freely admit that I have very little clue about the history of comics, but I'm pretty sure that the heroes of the silver age were still meant to be, you know, people.
Of course, if they didn't act like fully fleshed-out people in their own right, no wonder I didn't bother to read any.
The Elysienne; Magical controller
Silent Sickle; Natural scrapper
And many more.
Aenigma Rebis: "Actually, Ely's more like Jean Grey. Only... smart."
The funny thing is it took a thread like this, 2 weeks research in Virtuevers and Guild portal to find a couple or so SG with this mindset. You would think that on a server mostly composed of RPers it would not have been that hard.
We are right there, on the main Virtue SG thread. So is SCORPIO, and a couple others. The themes are set out in plain sight, but it tends to require a little research to dig further into what SGs do or don't do.
Cynics of the world, unite!
Taking Care of the Multiverse
In other words, Torero wants to play a human being (or regular being) that just happens to shoot fire out of his hands (or whatever his powersets of choice happen to be) rather than being defined in the inverse.
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In other words, Torero wants to play a human being (or regular being) that just happens to shoot fire out of his hands (or whatever his powersets of choice happen to be) rather than being defined in the inverse.
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As sarcastic as that sounded, sort of.
RPing is a study on behavior. How does the character you created behave given certain situations? I dont care about RPing how the toon is a Spandex superstar saves the day. I care about RPing how he deals with being typecast and loosing his humanity, about having to decide between trying to save his personal relations or saving someone he doesnt even know. Worse yet. Say your character is and a hyperion, why would he actually care? Or why isnt he simply a jerk?, not like anyone can take him down a peg.
Personally I like that aspect. The one that brings humanity to a character. Even the lack of humanity brings humanity to a concept by recognizing it.
What, you mean not everybody's character is just some person who happens to shoot fire...?
Oh, wait...
Cynics of the world, unite!
Taking Care of the Multiverse
Twas my point, and if you you were in our area, our tabletop PnP supers games would love to have you join. That is exactly the type of player and attitude we like at the table. 
It ain't the powers and the spandex, it's how the person deals with them that counts.
Snippet:
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And for those who want the tl;dr version: So what if it's a comic? it can be a good, realistic comic.
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Here here!!
I always think of reality or realistic within the confines of the universe that I am speaking. In a movie about modern day normal folks, no one should be able to fly. But in a comic book, certain things are expected, and within that realm certain suspensions of disbelief make the genre. However, that does not mean that EVERYTHING that could happen should, and is believable. Characters who can't warp time should still take a realistic amount of time to travel from one place to another, for example.
I get annoyed when people dismiss realism in comics out of hand just because people in comics do unrealistic things. One always has to look at realism with the rules of that "reality" in mind.