The best DPS?


Amy_Amp

 

Posted

I know there is a thread on this in general AT section, but nothing really specific has come from it, so I came here to pose the question:

What is the best DPS a blaster can pump out? (regardless of survivability)

The best ranged/melee chain?

Best over 1-2min? best over long period?

Ive figured out that my own elec3 has a chain that can pump out around 200 ranged DPS essentially as long as I dont miss, and with a tiny fluctuation that evens out after Casting Voltai sentinel (defiance boosts the following attacks up to smooth out the cast time's subtraction to DPS)

And if I chain in my melee attacks, I can push 300.


 

Posted

300 dps? You would need a lot of recharge to do so, where is your math proving that?


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

Posted

Something tells me Player99 is using terminology he doesn't completely understand.

Here:

DPS = Damage per SECOND.

Most attacks take well OVER a second to cast and animate. Therefore, if you wanted a power that did 300 damage per second, you'd have to have a power that does like 600 damage. And I don't think there's any attacks that'll do that against an even-conning mob. Maybe a Nuke, but those take several seconds to activate.

I take it you want a measure of damage per MINUTE?

I realize you were using "dps" as a generic term to insinuate damage in general, but it can lead to some confusion doing that, so, just don't =)


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

An attack chain of Blaze-Blaze-Blaze will easily do over 300 DPS, even w/no BU, Aim or Defiance.

W/o doing any precise math: the best ST attack chain (realistically sustainable) would be Blaze-Charged Brawl-Havok Punch (might need Shocking Grasp as filler depending on recharge). So Fire/Elec is what you're looking for. W/defiance, stick in BU & Aim and you might get to close to 300. I've seen high scrapper builds push 250 DPS, so a blaster *should* beat that, but 300 is a very, VERY high hurdle. Not sure that the OP has such a build--if you do, please show us soloing a Pylon in 3:43, cuz that's what a DPS of 300 could do. We might even provide the necessary mitigation if required so that you can just do damage.

(Note, I'm fairly sure some controller builds can get to an "effective" DPS of 300, but that includes your pets and debuffs, not straight out damage.)


An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee

 

Posted

I think you're misunderstanding how DPS is used, actually. He's talking about a 300 DPS chain. While this is pretty hard to imagine, it doesn't mean that he has a power with a DPA of over 300. Though he'd have to average that, so I'm not sure how you'd achieve that.


QR

Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."

 

Posted

The best single target? aoe?

Single target would be a fire/elec blaster, with fire blast, blaze, charged brawl, havok punch, and shocking grasp.

AoE would be a fire/mental/elec blaster with fireball, fire breath, psy scream, psy shockwave, and static discharge.

Recharge will just let you use those powers to use the best of each of those powers to increase your DPS.

The only thing i wonder though that i don't feel like calculating, is an elec/elec, where VS is attacking while you have a full attack chain. But in most situations you can't count on it an dhave to stop to cast it etc.


Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental

Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration

Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Most attacks take well OVER a second to cast and animate. Therefore, if you wanted a power that did 300 damage per second, you'd have to have a power that does like 600 damage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just helped a Blaster on the Scrapper forums (weird, right?) and, with the slotting I recommended for him, Blaze was pushing 364.4 DPA (including Arcanatime) without any Defiance +dam incorporated. Bone Smasher and Energy Punch (which actually have the same numbers as Charged Brawl and Havoc Punch except that they deal stun instead of sleep) managed 234.5 and 188.8 DPA, respectively, similarly. The really interesting thing was that the build it was in was not a damage build. It was a survivability build. If outside mitigation could be counted on and the budget was unlimited, I'm easily sure that I could easily pull over 300 DPS with a Blaster attack chain simply because there are so many attacks that Blasters have available that have DPA that blows everyone else's out of the water.


 

Posted

I'm just going to argue semantics: the S in "DPS" stands for "second" as far as i'm aware.

Show me an attack, or a whole CHAIN of attacks, which can be COMPLETED WITHIN A SECOND (that does over 300 damage, to boot), and I'll shush up about it =)

In the meantime, make up another term to adequately describe what's being talked about.


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

Well, yes, and you're confusing DPS with DPA as far as I can see.

It's possible to use a chain of attacks that average a DPA greater than 300, that doesn't mean using multiple attacks in one second that do more than 300 however. That's just a lot of high, high DPA attacks.

I did look at it in Mids though, and I have to say... I know what my next toon is now.


QR

Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just going to argue semantics: the S in "DPS" stands for "second" as far as i'm aware.

Show me an attack, or a whole CHAIN of attacks, which can be COMPLETED WITHIN A SECOND (that does over 300 damage, to boot), and I'll shush up about it =)

In the meantime, make up another term to adequately describe what's being talked about.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's Damage per Second, not Damage in a Second. No matter how you try to semantically argue that you're right, you're wrong. The entire point of the term is that it is an averaged value across an extended time frame using a smaller unit to display the average contribution over a longer period of time. If you've got a problem with how DPS is used, then you've also got a problem with how recovery and regeneration operate as well since, they don't actually operate within a second as would be suggested by their read outs (end/sec and hp/sec, respectively). Base Regeneration is actually a single tick of healing for 5% of max health once every 12 seconds. That's not hp/sec, but that's how we see it. Endurance works the exact same way but with more, smaller ticks that are still percentage based.

It's the same reason why pressure is often measured in lbs/ft^2 or rain is measured in inches over an area rather than in a more discrete and specific measurement. I have yet to see any game that uses the term DPS (or any *PS) as a tool for measurement that specifically measures for a single second rather than the average contribution over the number of seconds that took place.

If you want to argue semantics, at least try to make your argument founded on something more solid than weak supposition and ignorance.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Show me an attack, or a whole CHAIN of attacks, which can be COMPLETED WITHIN A SECOND (that does over 300 damage, to boot), and I'll shush up about it =)

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough, I can easily find something that fits the bill for this. Slot either Energy Punch or Charged Brawl with 5 piece Hecatomb (all but Hecaam) and the Mako's Bite proc. That's 89.92% +dam from slotting and and extra 14.4 and 35.3 damage from procs. Factor in 40% +dam from Defiance and you'll end up with 129.92% +dam total. With a base damage of 109, you'll end up with 250.61 damage. Add in the procs and you'll get 300.31 damage with a single attack (re: not within the confines of an attack string, which means you don't have to include the +1 clock interval to account for starting the next attack) with an animation time of .924 seconds. That's just over 300 damage under 1 second. Now, even if you don't want to read everything else I've written to demonstrate you're ignorance of terms and their appropriateness, you can "shush up about it".


 

Posted

Well i guess I'm not the only ignorant one...

http://www.giantbomb.com/dps-damage-per-second/92-1097/

http://internetgames.about.com/od/glossary/g/dps.htm

http://www.wowwiki.com/Damage_per_second (first paragraph, though it goes into layman's terms later)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dps (second definition)

Though nice find on "Charged Brawl" =) Hey OP, slot a purple set and some procs into your melee attack and you'll be all set!


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Well i guess I'm not the only ignorant one...

[/ QUOTE ]

Those sites aren't ignorant. You're just the only one reading in that it has to be in a single second period. When they're refering to axes dealing 56.3 DPS, they're not talking about the axe attacking and dealing 56.3 damage every second. They're talking about an axe that deals 129.5 damage in one attack every 2.3 seconds. It's damage per second in the same way that we measure population density in people per square mile. You don't have exactly 2,000 people every square mile. You have 20,000 living in 10 square miles, which averages out to 2,000 people every square mile. You're reading all of that wrong.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well i guess I'm not the only ignorant one...

[/ QUOTE ]

Those sites aren't ignorant. You're just the only one reading in that it has to be in a single second period. When they're refering to axes dealing 56.3 DPS, they're not talking about the axe attacking and dealing 56.3 damage every second. They're talking about an axe that deals 129.5 damage in one attack every 2.3 seconds. It's damage per second in the same way that we measure population density in people per square mile. You don't have exactly 2,000 people every square mile. You have 20,000 living in 10 square miles, which averages out to 2,000 people every square mile. You're reading all of that wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. The term "DPS" has been around forever and most games it's used in don't actually have attacks going off every second. Just because an attack takes 2.34 seconds to go off doesn't mean it can't be converted to DPS.


 

Posted

going into semantics a bit myself, i never said I broke 300...i said I pushed it.

now, I have a constant 25.5 damage buff, and 102.5% rech with hasten, and a 28sec downtime with it, but lets not focus on that, because the fight should be over in most cases before hasten goes away.

my chain is Charged brawl-> Charged Bolt-> Lightning Bolt-> Charged Brawl.

If I cast Voltaic sentinel before the battle (and after hasten goes off) I end up with this:

243.1 + (141.6 x 1.055) + (232.3 x 1.121) + (243.1 x 1.231) + (141.6 x 1.286) + (232.3 x 1.352) + (243.1 x 1.462) + (141.6 x 1.517) + (232.3 x (1.583 - .055)) + ((243.1 x 1.638)/1.205) = 2703.95(1.205)= 3258.26 / 12.8 = 254.55 + 33.18 = 287.73

that is whithin the Sparky buff, and at teh end Sparky's DPS is simply added, as it is not truly a part of my attack chain, but an additional source.

Afte rthe sparky buff is gone, it averages out, possibly losing 2-3 dps. as shown on the ranged damage chain here, after the sparky buff is gone, the chain continues for a minute until i need to resummon sparky, which will provide a large defiance buff of itself, and only result in a small loss of DPS, followed by a gain due to the buff (coupled with existing defiance boosts from previous attacks, which will still be active during the cast, and affec the possible next 1-2 attacks, coupled witha sparky attack)

EDIT: Jad, is your next toon an Elec3? or just a blaster?


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Well i guess I'm not the only ignorant one...

[/ QUOTE ] lol


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
going into semantics a bit myself, i never said I broke 300...i said I pushed it.

now, I have a constant 25.5 damage buff, and 102.5% rech with hasten, and a 28sec downtime with it, but lets not focus on that, because the fight should be over in most cases before hasten goes away.

my chain is Charged brawl-> Charged Bolt-> Lightning Bolt-> Charged Brawl.

If I cast Voltaic sentinel before the battle (and after hasten goes off) I end up with this:

243.1 + (141.6 x 1.055) + (232.3 x 1.121) + (243.1 x 1.231) + (141.6 x 1.286) + (232.3 x 1.352) + (243.1 x 1.462) + (141.6 x 1.517) + (232.3 x (1.583 - .055)) + ((243.1 x 1.638)/1.205) = 2703.95(1.205)= 3258.26 / 12.8 = 254.55 + 33.18 = 287.73

that is whithin the Sparky buff, and at teh end Sparky's DPS is simply added, as it is not truly a part of my attack chain, but an additional source.

Afte rthe sparky buff is gone, it averages out, possibly losing 2-3 dps. as shown on the ranged damage chain here, after the sparky buff is gone, the chain continues for a minute until i need to resummon sparky, which will provide a large defiance buff of itself, and only result in a small loss of DPS, followed by a gain due to the buff (coupled with existing defiance boosts from previous attacks, which will still be active during the cast, and affec the possible next 1-2 attacks, coupled witha sparky attack)

EDIT: Jad, is your next toon an Elec3? or just a blaster?

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got a pretty big problem with your math. You're using Defiance as an end multiplier to all of your attacks rather than an additive value to your existing +dam numbers. If you were doing it right, you would actually be doing a substantially smaller quantity of damage (which, if you actually paid attention in game, you'd probably realize because the numbers you experienced wouldn't be the numbers you calculated).


 

Posted

quick brag point:

the numbers shown are my current build, with only the purple set is in Voltaic sentinel

@ umbral:

Then how would one calculate Defiance?

What im doing is adding the damage buff to a x1 multiplier.

so:

100 damage x 1= 100 damage (base, essentially)

100damage x1(+6.6% def buff):
100 x1.066 =106.6
100 x1.066 (+6.6% def buff again):
100x1.132 =113.2

Seeing as the buff applies during the whole duration of the buff, it can easily stack as a small multiplier effect.

If I carry on the formula, as I did in the ranged damage chain, I simply find out when the buff would wear off, and subtract it from the equation for the attack it next applies to.

In fact, after a bit of blasting I regularly see Lighting bolt hitting for 244ish

also note that I am not starting at base, I have a 25.5% natural damage buff, as well as a 20.5% buff from voltaic sentinel starting the chain. so Im allready hitting with a +46% buff

while working with those buffs, I add teh damage of Voltaic sentinel which adds a decent amount to my chain.


 

Posted

Player99, his point was that all damage buffs (such as those from defiance, buffs like Fulcrum Shift, and enhancements) are added up and then multiplied by the base damage of the attack (not the enhanced damage). A 100 base damage attack will be slotted up to around 200 damage (195ish really, but shush), but a 30% damage buff from defiance will then raise it to 230 damage, not 260 damage. If you hit Build Up (and still had the 30% defiance boost) then the 100 base dmg attack would do 330 damage.


Rule number six of an empathy defender is NEVER underestimate a blaster's ability to die. I don't care if he has CM, Fort, both RAs, bubbles (both FF and Sonic), and is fighting next to a Storm defender with hurricane on. If there is a way to die in that situation, the blaster will find it.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well i guess I'm not the only ignorant one...

[/ QUOTE ]

Those sites aren't ignorant. You're just the only one reading in that it has to be in a single second period. When they're refering to axes dealing 56.3 DPS, they're not talking about the axe attacking and dealing 56.3 damage every second. They're talking about an axe that deals 129.5 damage in one attack every 2.3 seconds. It's damage per second in the same way that we measure population density in people per square mile. You don't have exactly 2,000 people every square mile. You have 20,000 living in 10 square miles, which averages out to 2,000 people every square mile. You're reading all of that wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, did we REALLY have to argue this. I'm sorry empror but until you came back on what was said about that i literally thought your post on "damage in one second" was a joke post. So sad.


Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental

Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration

Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server

 

Posted

The simplest way of calculating your effective DPS is to go solo a pylon.

DPS = (38343.75 / seconds to solo pylon) + 127.8125

Done.

If you really have a DPS of 287.73, you'll be able to solo a pylon in just under 4 min (3:59). Since I have yet to see a sub-4 min number, I sorta doubt this, esp since you're Elec/Elec. Fire/Elec, absolutely optimized for ST damage (which means you'd need outside buffs for mitigation)... maybe.


An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee

 

Posted

Figured I'd play around with Mid's and got this as my best dps build:

1. Flare- 1 sec activation, .93 recharge, 154 damage
2. Blaze- 1 sec activation, 2.9 recharge, 425 damage
3. Energy Punch- .83 activation, 2.9 recharge, 245 damage

Energy punch->flare->blaze->flare

3.7 seconds to recycle the entire chain

No build up or other temporary modifiers. This dps is enhanced by io set modifiers.

244.5 dps

Has anyone actually been able to acheive a perma 300+ dps single target?