[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What about secondaries?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I specifically mentioned a caveat earlier that doing DPS calculations for primaries is pretty inaccurate. The secondary sets provide nearly half of the attacks that a blaster will get and many of them actually have excellent DPA. A better (and more telling) analysis would be for a comparison of all primaries by all secondaries, but that would be a lot of work, which is more than I'm interested in doing at the moment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I said the same thing somewhere up there. Basically, looking at just the primaries is somewhat misleading since you can pretty much remove the lowest DPA attack in your string and substitute an immob to increase your DPS. That ability alone will completely change up the rankings and make the T3 blast (if you have one) weigh far more heavily. And again, if you introduce blapping into the equation, the primaries are really only about the T3, and maybe a T1 or 2 every once in a while. I'm of the opinion that each power in each set should be analyzed separately to get an overall feel for the set, then combine them w/a secondary that complements it well. Like, if you're playing w/a primary w/no heavy T3 blast, I'd pick a secondary that can provide a good ST option, like Fire. For just ST damage purposes, I don't think Elec/Dev or Elec/En are good options, unless you're willing to be really patient w/Mines and such, or blap a bit w/Elec/En.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
dave_p, I actually made a chart of the damageing powers from all the primaries..If you want i can kinda round them up and post them set-by-set 
I have my own damage charts to look through when trying to decide on powers and even powersets. Certainly, you can post your tables and add more empirical data to everyone's knowledge base. I just want to caution that looking at Blaster primaries in a vacuum can be misleading, far more than looking at other sets' damage outputs, like Scrapper primaries or Tanker secondaries (and again, they have their own problems, but nothing like Blasters).
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
[ QUOTE ]
I have my own damage charts to look through when trying to decide on powers and even powersets. Certainly, you can post your tables and add more empirical data to everyone's knowledge base. I just want to caution that looking at Blaster primaries in a vacuum can be misleading, far more than looking at other sets' damage outputs, like Scrapper primaries or Tanker secondaries (and again, they have their own problems, but nothing like Blasters).
[/ QUOTE ]
The big reason is that all of the other ATs except for Dominators get all of their attacks from a single power set supplemented by resources available to everyone in the AT (APP/PPPs and power pools). Dominators and Blasters are more difficult to consider because they both get attacks from 2 completely difference sources, which means that the complexity of analysis, in order to be truly accurate, has to be multiplicatively more complicated, and, even then, it is going to suffer from certain synergistic combinations making other non-synergistic combinations appear sub par.
Ok, so here it is, the chart of data for all the worthwhile* powers in the primaries and secondaries.
*worthwhile as in good for damage in any form, not utility(for the most part).
I have also left out snipes and conventional nukes due to their silly activation or recharge not worthwhile for DPS.
Devices was also left out for what should be obvious reasons...
Code:[/color]PRIMARIES
SO: 3 dam, 2 rech, 1 end
Archery Damage Act. Rech. End. DPS DPA DPE DPS DPA DPE 250% Rech DPS
Snap Shot 52.6 1.188 2 3.54 16.5 44.28 14.86 42.93 86.31 38.61 52.92
Aimed Shot 82.6 1.848 6 5.2 10.52 44.7 15.88 29.55 87.13 41.27 38.89
Blazing Arrow 161.7 1.980 10 10.2 13.5 81.67 15.85 39.49 159.19 41.19 54.08
Fistfull 56.9 1.320 8 8.53 6.11 43.11 6.67 18.12 84.03 17.33 25.18
Explosive Arrow 56.3 1.980 16 15.2 3.13 28.43 3.70 9.47 55.43 9.62 13.44
Rain of Arrows 225.2 4.224 60 20.8 3.51 53.31 10.83 10.91 103.93 28.13 15.96
Assault Rifle
Burst 67.6 1.188 4 5.2 13.03 56.9 13 36.72 110.92 33.78 48.49
Slug 102.6 1.848 8 8.53 10.42 55.52 12.03 30.08 108.22 31.25 40.65
Ignite 283.6 4.224 20 5.2 11.71 67.14 54.54 34.06 130.88 141.71 46.4
Buckshot 56.9 1.056 8 10.19 6.28 53.88 5.58 18.93 105.03 14.51 26.74
M30 Grenade 56.3 1.848 16 15.2 3.15 30.47 3.70 9.58 59.39 9.62 13.65
Flame Thrower 121.1 2.508 20 23.9 5.38 48.29 5.07 16.27 94.12 13.17 23.05
Full Auto 178.6 4.224 60 15.6 2.78 42.28 11.45 8.65 82.42 29.75 12.66
Electrical Blast
Charged Bolts 62.6 1.188 4 4.42 12.07 52.69 14.16 34 102.72 36.8 44.91
Lightning Bolt 102.6 1.848 8 7.25 10.42 55.52 14.15 30.08 108.22 36.77 40.65
Volt.Sent. 44.5 1.320 2.5 0 11.65 33.71 44.5 22.71 65.72 86.74 23.3
Ball Lightning 63.8 1.320 16 15.18 3.68 48.33 4.20 11.38 94.22 10.92 16.53
Short Circuit 56.3 3.168 20 15.6 2.43 17.77 3.61 7.23 34.64 9.38 10.08
Energy Blast
Power Bolt 62.6 1.188 4 5.2 12.07 52.69 12.04 34 102.72 31.28 44.91
Power Blast 102.6 1.848 8 8.53 10.42 55.52 12.03 30.08 108.22 31.25 40.65
Power Burst 132.6 2.244 10 10.4 10.83 59.09 12.75 31.34 115.19 33.13 42.47
Energy Torrent 60.1 1.320 12 11.86 4.51 45.53 5.07 13.75 88.75 13.17 19.64
Explosive Blast 56.3 1.848 16 15.2 3.15 30.47 3.70 9.58 59.39 9.62 13.65
Fire Blast
Flares 63.2 1.188 2.18 3.69 18.76 53.2 17.13 49.35 103.7 44.5 61.36
Fire Blast 92.6 1.848 4 5.2 15.83 50.11 17.81 42.48 97.68 46.27 53.71
Blaze 188.9 1.188 10 10.4 16.88 159.01 18.16 51.21 309.95 47.2 72.82
Fireball 78.8 1.188 16 15.18 4.58 66.33 5.19 14.23 129.3 13.49 20.77
Rain of Fire 126.8 2.244 60 26 2.04 56.51 4.88 6.46 110.15 12.67 9.66
Fire Breath 109.8 2.904 16 15.2 5.81 37.81 7.22 17.11 73.7 18.77 23.6
Ice Blast
Ice Bolt 62.6 1.188 4 5.2 12.07 52.69 12.04 34 102.72 31.28 44.91
Ice Blast 102.6 1.848 8 8.53 10.42 55.52 12.03 30.08 108.22 31.25 40.65
B.I.B. 142.6 1.320 12 13 10.71 108.03 10.97 32.61 210.58 28.5 46.6
B.F.R. 82.6 2.64 20 15.2 3.65 31.29 5.43 10.99 60.99 14.12 15.53
Frost Breath 87.6 2.904 16 15.18 4.63 30.17 5.77 13.65 58.8 14.99 18.83
Ice Storm 118.3 2.244 60 15.6 1.9 52.72 7.58 6.03 102.76 19.7 9.02
Psychic Blast
Psionic Dart 62.6 1.188 4 5.2 12.07 52.69 12.04 34 102.72 31.28 44.91
Mental Blast 102.6 1.848 8 8.53 10.42 55.52 12.03 30.08 108.22 31.25 40.65
TK Blast 122.6 1.188 10 10.2 10.96 103.2 12.02 33.24 201.17 31.23 47.26
Will Domination 77.6 1.320 20 10.2 3.64 58.79 7.61 11.35 114.6 19.77 16.65
Psionic Tornado 55.7 2.508 20 18.52 2.47 22.21 3.01 7.48 43.29 7.81 10.6
Sonic Attack
Shriek 52.6 1.188 3 4.37 12.56 44.28 12.04 34.31 86.31 31.28 44.05
Scream 91.19 1.848 6 6.86 11.62 49.35 13.29 32.62 96.19 34.54 42.93
Shout 132.6 3.036 11 11 9.45 43.68 12.05 26.82 85.14 31.32 35.66
Howl 50.7 2.508 10 10.19 4.05 20.22 4.98 11.61 39.41 12.93 15.58
Shockwave 40 2.376 8 11.9 3.86 16.84 3.36 10.86 32.82 8.73 14.35
Siren's Song 31.3 2.244 20 15.6 1.41 13.95 2.01 4.28 27.19 5.21 6.11
SECONDARIES
Electricy Manip.
Electric Fence 62.6 1.320 4 7.8 11.77 47.42 8.03 32.79 92.44 20.85 42.88
Lightning Field 9.45 1.000 1 0.78 4.73 9.45 12.12 9.21 18.42 31.48 9.45
Charged Brawl 109 0.924 10 10.2 9.98 117.97 10.69 30.68 229.95 27.77 44.27
Havok Punch 144.6 1.584 14 13.5 9.28 91.29 10.71 28.22 177.95 27.83 40.26
Thunder Strike 165.7 3.432 20 18.5 7.07 48.28 8.96 20.92 94.11 23.27 28.99
Shocking Grasp 100.1 1.188 15 18.2 6.18 84.26 5.50 19.15 164.25 14.29 27.85
Energy Manip.
Power Thrust 44.5 1.188 6 6.86 6.19 37.46 6.49 18.11 73.02 16.86 24.8
Energy Punch 109 0.924 10 10.2 9.98 117.97 10.69 19.45 229.95 27.77 44.27
Bone Smasher 144.6 1.584 14 13.5 9.28 91.29 10.71 28.22 177.95 27.83 40.26
Total Focus 198 3.432 20 18.5 8.45 57.69 10.70 25 112.46 27.81 34.64
Stun 13.9 1.98 20 10.2 0.63 7.02 1.36 1.94 13.68 3.54 2.79
Fire Manip.
Ring of Fire 96.3 1.32 6 7.8 13.16 72.95 12.35 38.14 142.21 32.08 51.77
Fire Sword 131.2 1.584 10 10.2 11.33 82.83 12.86 33.71 161.46 33.42 46.99
Combustion 83.4 3.168 15 13 4.59 26.33 6.42 13.36 51.32 16.67 18.19
F.S.C 99.5 2.904 20 18.5 4.34 34.26 5.38 13.01 66.79 13.98 18.25
Blazing Aura 11.1 1 1 0.78 5.55 11.1 14.23 10.82 21.64 36.98 11.1
Burn 170.2 2.244 25 5.2 6.25 75.85 32.73 19.23 147.85 85.05 27.8
Hot Feet 13.9 1 1 1.04 6.95 13.9 13.37 13.55 27.1 34.73 13.9
Ice Manip.
Chilblain 62.6 1.32 4 7.8 11.77 47.42 8.03 32.79 92.44 20.85 42.88
Frozen Fists 91.2 1.584 8 8.53 9.52 57.58 10.69 27.84 112.23 27.78 38.13
Ice Sword 109 1.584 10 10.2 9.41 68.81 10.69 28.01 134.14 27.77 39.04
Freezing Touch 63.4 1.188 10 10.2 5.67 53.37 6.22 17.19 104.03 16.15 24.44
Mental Manip.
Subdual 62.6 1.848 4 8.53 10.7 33.87 7.34 28.72 66.03 19.07 36.31
Mind Probe 91.2 1.32 8 8.53 9.79 69.09 10.69 29.04 134.68 27.78 40.35
TK Thrust 44.5 2.244 6 6.86 5.4 19.83 6.49 14.84 38.66 16.86 19.16
Psychic Scream 65.1 2.904 12 11.9 4.37 22.42 5.47 12.56 43.7 14.21 16.9
W.o.C. 7.51 1 1 0.13 3.76 7.51 57.77 7.32 14.64 150.11 7.51
P.Shockwave 68.8 2.112 20 10.2 3.11 32.58 6.75 9.5 63.5 17.53 13.61
Is it me or did this formating broke the forum ?
On Firefox, I've got numbers flying out of the blue background to the right, on the black background which is usually blank.
[ QUOTE ]
Is it me or did this formating broke the forum ?
On Firefox, I've got numbers flying out of the blue background to the right, on the black background which is usually blank.
[/ QUOTE ]
They did. I was hoping he'd come back and reformat it so that it's actually legible. I'll try to repost it for him.
This should be a bit better. Some of the numbers are largely useless though and could stand to be trimmed. DPS for an individual attack is pretty much useless as are DPA and DPE values across the other damage types because they'll remain largely constant because they're percent decreases. There's a large amount of pointless data on our friend's spreadsheet.
Code:[/color]PRIMARIES
SO: 3 dam, 2 rech, 1 end
Archery Damage Act. Rech. End. DPS DPA DPE DPS DPA DPE 250% Rech DPS
Snap Shot 52.6 1.188 2 3.54 16.5 44.28 14.86 42.93 86.31 38.61 52.92
Aimed Shot 82.6 1.848 6 5.2 10.52 44.7 15.88 29.55 87.13 41.27 38.89
Blazing Arrow 161.7 1.980 10 10.2 13.5 81.67 15.85 39.49 159.19 41.19 54.08
Fistfull 56.9 1.320 8 8.53 6.11 43.11 6.67 18.12 84.03 17.33 25.18
Explosive Arrow 56.3 1.980 16 15.2 3.13 28.43 3.70 9.47 55.43 9.62 13.44
Rain of Arrows 225.2 4.224 60 20.8 3.51 53.31 10.83 10.91 103.93 28.13 15.96
Assault Rifle
Burst 67.6 1.188 4 5.2 13.03 56.9 13 36.72 110.92 33.78 48.49
Slug 102.6 1.848 8 8.53 10.42 55.52 12.03 30.08 108.22 31.25 40.65
Ignite 283.6 4.224 20 5.2 11.71 67.14 54.54 34.06 130.88 141.71 46.4
Buckshot 56.9 1.056 8 10.19 6.28 53.88 5.58 18.93 105.03 14.51 26.74
M30 Grenade 56.3 1.848 16 15.2 3.15 30.47 3.70 9.58 59.39 9.62 13.65
Flame Thrower 121.1 2.508 20 23.9 5.38 48.29 5.07 16.27 94.12 13.17 23.05
Full Auto 178.6 4.224 60 15.6 2.78 42.28 11.45 8.65 82.42 29.75 12.66
Electrical Blast
Charged Bolts 62.6 1.188 4 4.42 12.07 52.69 14.16 34 102.72 36.8 44.91
Lightning Bolt 102.6 1.848 8 7.25 10.42 55.52 14.15 30.08 108.22 36.77 40.65
Volt.Sent. 44.5 1.320 2.5 0 11.65 33.71 44.5 22.71 65.72 86.74 23.3
Ball Lightning 63.8 1.320 16 15.18 3.68 48.33 4.20 11.38 94.22 10.92 16.53
Short Circuit 56.3 3.168 20 15.6 2.43 17.77 3.61 7.23 34.64 9.38 10.08
Energy Blast
Power Bolt 62.6 1.188 4 5.2 12.07 52.69 12.04 34 102.72 31.28 44.91
Power Blast 102.6 1.848 8 8.53 10.42 55.52 12.03 30.08 108.22 31.25 40.65
Power Burst 132.6 2.244 10 10.4 10.83 59.09 12.75 31.34 115.19 33.13 42.47
Energy Torrent 60.1 1.320 12 11.86 4.51 45.53 5.07 13.75 88.75 13.17 19.64
Explosive Blast 56.3 1.848 16 15.2 3.15 30.47 3.70 9.58 59.39 9.62 13.65
Fire Blast
Flares 63.2 1.188 2.18 3.69 18.76 53.2 17.13 49.35 103.7 44.5 61.36
Fire Blast 92.6 1.848 4 5.2 15.83 50.11 17.81 42.48 97.68 46.27 53.71
Blaze 188.9 1.188 10 10.4 16.88 159.01 18.16 51.21 309.95 47.2 72.82
Fireball 78.8 1.188 16 15.18 4.58 66.33 5.19 14.23 129.3 13.49 20.77
Rain of Fire 126.8 2.244 60 26 2.04 56.51 4.88 6.46 110.15 12.67 9.66
Fire Breath 109.8 2.904 16 15.2 5.81 37.81 7.22 17.11 73.7 18.77 23.6
Ice Blast
Ice Bolt 62.6 1.188 4 5.2 12.07 52.69 12.04 34 102.72 31.28 44.91
Ice Blast 102.6 1.848 8 8.53 10.42 55.52 12.03 30.08 108.22 31.25 40.65
B.I.B. 142.6 1.320 12 13 10.71 108.03 10.97 32.61 210.58 28.5 46.6
B.F.R. 82.6 2.64 20 15.2 3.65 31.29 5.43 10.99 60.99 14.12 15.53
Frost Breath 87.6 2.904 16 15.18 4.63 30.17 5.77 13.65 58.8 14.99 18.83
Ice Storm 118.3 2.244 60 15.6 1.9 52.72 7.58 6.03 102.76 19.7 9.02
Psychic Blast
Psionic Dart 62.6 1.188 4 5.2 12.07 52.69 12.04 34 102.72 31.28 44.91
Mental Blast 102.6 1.848 8 8.53 10.42 55.52 12.03 30.08 108.22 31.25 40.65
TK Blast 122.6 1.188 10 10.2 10.96 103.2 12.02 33.24 201.17 31.23 47.26
Will Domination 77.6 1.320 20 10.2 3.64 58.79 7.61 11.35 114.6 19.77 16.65
Psionic Tornado 55.7 2.508 20 18.52 2.47 22.21 3.01 7.48 43.29 7.81 10.6
Sonic Attack
Shriek 52.6 1.188 3 4.37 12.56 44.28 12.04 34.31 86.31 31.28 44.05
Scream 91.19 1.848 6 6.86 11.62 49.35 13.29 32.62 96.19 34.54 42.93
Shout 132.6 3.036 11 11 9.45 43.68 12.05 26.82 85.14 31.32 35.66
Howl 50.7 2.508 10 10.19 4.05 20.22 4.98 11.61 39.41 12.93 15.58
Shockwave 40 2.376 8 11.9 3.86 16.84 3.36 10.86 32.82 8.73 14.35
Siren's Song 31.3 2.244 20 15.6 1.41 13.95 2.01 4.28 27.19 5.21 6.11
SECONDARIES
Electricy Manip.
Electric Fence 62.6 1.320 4 7.8 11.77 47.42 8.03 32.79 92.44 20.85 42.88
Lightning Field 9.45 1.000 1 0.78 4.73 9.45 12.12 9.21 18.42 31.48 9.45
Charged Brawl 109 0.924 10 10.2 9.98 117.97 10.69 30.68 229.95 27.77 44.27
Havok Punch 144.6 1.584 14 13.5 9.28 91.29 10.71 28.22 177.95 27.83 40.26
Thunder Strike 165.7 3.432 20 18.5 7.07 48.28 8.96 20.92 94.11 23.27 28.99
Shocking Grasp 100.1 1.188 15 18.2 6.18 84.26 5.50 19.15 164.25 14.29 27.85
Energy Manip.
Power Thrust 44.5 1.188 6 6.86 6.19 37.46 6.49 18.11 73.02 16.86 24.8
Energy Punch 109 0.924 10 10.2 9.98 117.97 10.69 19.45 229.95 27.77 44.27
Bone Smasher 144.6 1.584 14 13.5 9.28 91.29 10.71 28.22 177.95 27.83 40.26
Total Focus 198 3.432 20 18.5 8.45 57.69 10.70 25 112.46 27.81 34.64
Stun 13.9 1.98 20 10.2 0.63 7.02 1.36 1.94 13.68 3.54 2.79
Fire Manip.
Ring of Fire 96.3 1.32 6 7.8 13.16 72.95 12.35 38.14 142.21 32.08 51.77
Fire Sword 131.2 1.584 10 10.2 11.33 82.83 12.86 33.71 161.46 33.42 46.99
Combustion 83.4 3.168 15 13 4.59 26.33 6.42 13.36 51.32 16.67 18.19
F.S.C 99.5 2.904 20 18.5 4.34 34.26 5.38 13.01 66.79 13.98 18.25
Blazing Aura 11.1 1 1 0.78 5.55 11.1 14.23 10.82 21.64 36.98 11.1
Burn 170.2 2.244 25 5.2 6.25 75.85 32.73 19.23 147.85 85.05 27.8
Hot Feet 13.9 1 1 1.04 6.95 13.9 13.37 13.55 27.1 34.73 13.9
Ice Manip.
Chilblain 62.6 1.32 4 7.8 11.77 47.42 8.03 32.79 92.44 20.85 42.88
Frozen Fists 91.2 1.584 8 8.53 9.52 57.58 10.69 27.84 112.23 27.78 38.13
Ice Sword 109 1.584 10 10.2 9.41 68.81 10.69 28.01 134.14 27.77 39.04
Freezing Touch 63.4 1.188 10 10.2 5.67 53.37 6.22 17.19 104.03 16.15 24.44
Mental Manip.
Subdual 62.6 1.848 4 8.53 10.7 33.87 7.34 28.72 66.03 19.07 36.31
Mind Probe 91.2 1.32 8 8.53 9.79 69.09 10.69 29.04 134.68 27.78 40.35
TK Thrust 44.5 2.244 6 6.86 5.4 19.83 6.49 14.84 38.66 16.86 19.16
Psychic Scream 65.1 2.904 12 11.9 4.37 22.42 5.47 12.56 43.7 14.21 16.9
W.o.C. 7.51 1 1 0.13 3.76 7.51 57.77 7.32 14.64 150.11 7.51
P.Shockwave 68.8 2.112 20 10.2 3.11 32.58 6.75 9.5 63.5 17.53 13.61
i did dps mostly for a few powers (voltaic sentinel and the damage auras), the rest is just for kinda...putting it out there.
And sorry if it looked weird to some comps, both charts look EXACTLY the same on my comp..
[ QUOTE ]
[u]ARCHERY[u]
SO: 106.55
SO+HASTEN: 115.85
IO: 114.54
[/ QUOTE ]
You got those numbers wrong. I just checked your numbers for Archery with SOs without Hasten. It's supposed to be 118.49.
Because the length of the attack string is 8.502 and none of the attacks take less than .978 seconds to activate (the difference between the length of the attack string and the duration of any individual Defiance buff after the animation of the attack concludes), every attack in that attack string gets the same benefit of each attack in the attack string: 12.1 + 6.6 + 11 + 6.6 + 3.2 = 39.5%
Baseline SO slotting is 94.93%. Total +dam is then 134.43% for a total +dam modifier of 234.43%.
Blazing Arrow>Snap>Aimed>Snap>Fistful = 379.07 + 124.01 + 193.64 + 124.01 + 133.39 = 954.12 damage.
The total duration of the attack string is 8.052 seconds. 954.12/8.052 = 118.49 DPS.
Honestly, Player99, don't take this the wrong way, but, considering all of the math and method errors that you've exhibited through nearly every step of this process, I'm not sure that you should be the one to try and do this.
[ QUOTE ]
This should be a bit better. Some of the numbers are largely useless though and could stand to be trimmed. DPS for an individual attack is pretty much useless as are DPA and DPE values across the other damage types because they'll remain largely constant because they're percent decreases. There's a large amount of pointless data on our friend's spreadsheet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, though he put a lot of work into it, so props to Player99. This is what my spreadsheet shows:
Code:[/color]
Sonic Dam Act Rech End DPE DPA
Shriek 52.56 1 3 4.368 12.03 44.24
Scream 82.6 1.67 6 6.864 12.03 44.70
Howl 50.68 2.33 10 10.192 4.97 20.21
Shockwv 40.04 2.17 8 11.856 3.38 16.85
Shout 132.64 2.67 11 11.024 12.03 45.67
S Song 31.28 2 20 15.6 2.01 13.94
Screech 12.52 1.5 20 10.192 1.23 7.30
D Wail 304.98 1.97 360 20.8 14.66 144.40
I'm showing Sonic because the numbers for Scream were wrong. According to CoD, Scream does 5*8.26 of energy and an equal amount of smashing for a total of 82.6, not 91.6. Other numbers look more or less right (only skimmed over the primaries).
Individual damage, act, end, rech, DPA, DPE are really all I care about. From there, you can do a very good estimation of the various combos of powersets, slotting, IOs, procs, etc. Doing actual, accurate DPS calculations are so painful that I rarely bother--mostly I rely on others like Werner and just do an internal check to confirm that they're right. 95% of the time, your intuitive chain, just based on DPA, tends to be the right one--things only really get tricky w/procs, esp debuff procs.
I also color code them for various effects (stuns, etc) and AoE, but that's too messy to show on the forums. And yes, I know DPA/DPE values for nukes are largely superflous.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Ok, here's the DPS values for the strings as I've calculated them.
Archery
SO: 118.49
SO + Hasten: 138.12
IO: 127.19 (switched to Blazing>Snap>Aimed to account for Defiance issues that don't exist in normal attack chain generation that allowed for better DPS and got 144.13 >.< Defiance drives me batty)
Assault_Rifle
SO: 85.07
SO + Hasten: 101.34
IO: 114.25
Electrical_Blast (assuming 94.93% +dam in VS for 86.72 damage every 3.82 seconds for an extra 22.7 DPS)
SO: 78.24 + 22.7 = 100.94
SO + Hasten: 111.89 + 22.7 = 134.59
IO: 108.01 + 22.7 = 130.71 (yet again, Defiance makes me angry; modified attack string to Charged>Lightning>Charged>Ball yields 123.17 + 22.7 = 145.87 DPS)
Energy_Blast
SO: 110.25
SO + Hasten: 131.0
IO:
Fire_Blast
SO: 137.48
SO + Hasten: 166.13
IO: 182.4
Ice_Blast
SO: 110.37
SO + Hasten: 133.81
IO: 155.26
Psychic_Blast
SO: 113.54
SO + Hasten: 156.1
IO: 163.86
Sonic_Attack (these numbers might be slightly off because Scream is just that annoying and I don't have reliable numbers on after animation duration of the -res, it should be reliably close though)
SO: 144.46
SO + Hasten: 144.2 (I'm pretty sure this one would actually be higher than the SO string)
IO: 166.32
In order of highest to lowest DPS...
SO:
Sonic 144.46
Fire 137.48
Archery 118.49
Psychic 113.54
Ice 110.37
Energy 110.25
Elec 100.94
AR 85.07
SO + Hasten:
Fire 166.13
Psychic 156.1
Sonic 144.2
Archery 138.12
Elec 134.59
Ice 133.81
Energy 131.0
AR 101.34
IO:
Fire 182.4
Sonic 166.32
Psychic 163.86
Ice 155.26
Elec 145.87
Archery 144.13
Energy 137.17
AR 114.25
The interesting thing to not is that Sonic actually does remarkably well considering it's generally considered to have one of the worst DPAs in the game. The big thing that inflates its numbers is the huge internal synergy it's got. Shout looks horrible on paper until you actually start checking out the Defiance and -res benefits, which more than make up for it being a generally sub par attack. Fire is, of course, on top, though takes some decent slotting to get there. AR is on that bottom the entire time, which was expected thanks to a distinct lack of real single target attacks. Elec was in the bottom half every time, even including the Voltaic Sentinel, which, considering that it doesn't have a similar level of AoE damage as the other low ST performers do (Energy is actually substantially better than Elec at AoE).
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[u]ARCHERY[u]
SO: 106.55
SO+HASTEN: 115.85
IO: 114.54
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You got those numbers wrong. I just checked your numbers for Archery with SOs without Hasten. It's supposed to be 118.49.
Because the length of the attack string is 8.502 and none of the attacks take less than .978 seconds to activate (the difference between the length of the attack string and the duration of any individual Defiance buff after the animation of the attack concludes), every attack in that attack string gets the same benefit of each attack in the attack string: 12.1 + 6.6 + 11 + 6.6 + 3.2 = 39.5%
Baseline SO slotting is 94.93%. Total +dam is then 134.43% for a total +dam modifier of 234.43%.
Blazing Arrow>Snap>Aimed>Snap>Fistful = 379.07 + 124.01 + 193.64 + 124.01 + 133.39 = 954.12 damage.
The total duration of the attack string is 8.052 seconds. 954.12/8.052 = 118.49 DPS.
Honestly, Player99, don't take this the wrong way, but, considering all of the math and method errors that you've exhibited through nearly every step of this process, I'm not sure that you should be the one to try and do this.
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dude, the chain you gave me was blaze-snap-aim-snap for teh SO+ hasten... there was no Fistfull
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Archery:
SO - Blazing>Snap>Aimed>Snap>Fistful>Wait(.528 secs)
SO w/ Hasten - Blazing>Snap>Aimed>Snap
IO - Blazing>Snap>Fist>Wait(.396 secs)
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Code:[/color]
315.2 1.980
(+.121)
108.9 1.188
(+.121+.066)
176.46 1.848
(+.121+.066+.11)
118.16 1.188
712 dam, 6.204 sec. 115.85 dps
The end dam buff is: +29.7 from defiance...
This is my fist time ever trying to do Data for stuff like this, Im bound to make a mistake or two, but dont go calling me out for something i technically DIDNT mess up
..did you change the strings you posted without telling us or something?
Surprising that Elec gets better than Ice w/Hasten, but falls back w/IOs. W/VS as a constant, I Would've thought higher recharges would increase Ice's advantage almost linearly w/a faster charging BiB. I guess Elec catches up, but as you get rid of that wait period, Ice goes back up. Of course, w/o VS, elec falls pretty flat.
I thought AR would do better than that since Buckshot is a decent 3rd attack, even for ST purposes, and you have Ignite too. Not horribly surprising that they're last though.
Son is very surprising, but even that's still deceptive, because Son lacks good burst potential, so while it'll do well in AV fights, if you're fighting a bunch of minions, Son still sucks. Still, combined w/the excellent mitigation, Son's definitely one of the better sets, IMO.
And again, this all falls apart w/a single attack from your secondary. My thinking is that Ice would benefit a ton from getting rid of that almost 1s gap in its SO+Hasten chain.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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The end dam buff is: +29.7 from defiance...
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You have to calculate the +dam for Defiance for each attack individually. You can't just generate an average value and apply it to them all.
I didnt umbral, each attack i did this:
base dam*(1.9493+defiance)
next attack: dam *(1.9493+def+def from last attack)
and so on...
did you not look at how i did it from the chart? All i was saying is the +dma you get from that string, like YOU did in your post "correcting" me
@dave_p:
Your chart unfortunatley has 2 flaws:
Scream is higher damage because it's -res takes effect DURING the attack (1 dot is normal, then the rest are buffed)
Your activation times dont account for server lag
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Scream is higher damage because it's -res takes effect DURING the attack (1 dot is normal, then the rest are buffed)
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Ah, this is something I've overlooked. Thanks for the heads up. That explains why Son does better than I anticipated. Umbral's right--Scream sucks (to calculate).
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Your activation times dont account for server lag
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If by "server lag", you're talking about Arcanatime (which has nothing to do w/lag, but clock cycles), it's baked into the DPA equations, which don't show up here and caused someone else on the blaster forum to accused me of doing poor division (which means Excel can't divide correctly, I guess, cuz I'll be damned if I'm doing all these calculations manually).
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
you sure the activation times account for server lag?
because I may as well go back and alter all my act times back to normal from server time...
I'm not sure what you're referring to as server lag. If you're actually talking about actual lag on the server side, it can be nominally removed by always having the next attack queued. If you're talking about "lag" as most ppl in-game phrase it, it's a combination of many things that can't possibly be quantified on a single spreadsheet.
If (most likely) you're talking about what we refer to as "Arcana Time", that has nothing to do with lag, and everything to do with the fact that the animations run on a 132msec clock cycle, and that an attack that activates in 1 sec and another that activates in 1.1 sec both in fact activate at 1.118 (which is to say the next power fires either 1.118 or 1.25 (don't think anyone's 100% sure about this one yet) sec after the current attack) and has no real difference. That's not lag--that's just how the software is designed.
If you want to list the Arcanatime values in your table like you're doing, that's up to you. I've found it easier to maintain my charts by listing actual stated act times and just adjusting for it in the DPA calculation. Just personal preference--either way, some ppl will be confused.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
yeah, its arcana time, i just call it server lag due to how the server has to "tick", creating the "lag"
BTW, how does Dreadful Wail work? Its debuff has a 0.5 sec delay, and comes in 4 waves timed 0.5 secs apart. Does that mean waves 2, 3 & 4 are affected, or just waves 3 & 4? I guess I could test this in-game, but am lazy. Either way, I'll have to revise my calcs for Son blasters & defenders.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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dude, the chain you gave me was blaze-snap-aim-snap for teh SO+ hasten... there was no Fistfull
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I posted that you got the numbers specifically wrong for SOs without Hasten because that's the first that I checked.
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..did you change the strings you posted without telling us or something?
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No, I didn't and the only attack strings that I did change, I mentioned rather specifically in my post for their DPS (the protocol I use only values DPA, which makes delayed damage mechanics like Defiance and Sonic's -res a bit difficult to quantify accurately).
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I didnt umbral, each attack i did this:
base dam*(1.9493+defiance)
next attack: dam *(1.9493+def+def from last attack)
and so on...
did you not look at how i did it from the chart? All i was saying is the +dma you get from that string, like YOU did in your post "correcting" me
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Did you calculate for a single instance of the attack string or did you calculate for the full cycle? Remember that Defiance won't cut off just because you started your attack chain over. The first power in the attack string should have the Defiance +dam from the powers at the end of the attack string factored in. Once you get through 7 seconds of your attack chain, you're going to be stacking a rather significant benefit. This is the primary reason why it takes so much more time for me to calculate Blaster DPS as opposed to any other AT: calculating the full contribution of Defiance is a horrible biyatch to do.
at teh same time, every 7.5 sec you lose defiance
the blaze-snap-aim-snap-fist-pause as you mentioned for the string also takes up 7.98 sec...
Thanks for telling me this late you need to backtrack and find out the average defiance for the string before adding defiance btw...
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Also, I added VS to the elec chain, all I did was figure out how many time VS would fire *on the target* during the chain, then added it to the damage
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That's not actually the appropriate method for adding VSs damage. It's simply better to outright calculate VSs DPS and add it afterwards. Think of it this way, if VS fired once every 4 seconds for 40 damage and the attack string you were adding it to required 5 seconds, you would be adding 80 damage to the 5 second attack string for a benefit of 16 DPS when the VS was only adding 10 DPS. The only time when that method would actually be appropriate is if the attack string is perfectly sync'd with VS's rate of attack.
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yeah, thats how I did it with my personal chain.
But, for this I thought it would be more accurate...
Went back and just added the DPS Sparky does:
SO: 98.3 (93.33 before)
SO+HASTEN: 124 (115.89)
IO: 125.4 (120.32 before)
Nothing changes much in the placings I listed before-hand, except Elec is essentially .3 off of Energy in the SO rank..
So, Umbral, when will you be posting the Attack chain calculator? (im willing to do the secondaries...)