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I'm quite aware of how GREAT my life is compared to, say, a KING a few hundred years ago.
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Plus, compared to that king, plenty of people in this thread are super modest and non-materialistic money worshipers! Plenty, or None? YOU BE THE JUDGE! 
Okay, unfair, this IS The Market forum.
Players who didn't have money "back in the day" were just newbs that didn't sell drops to the correct stores. Your FIRST toon was a little poor pre-30's but after that I recall VERY vividly making enough to easily re-slot SO's constantly. I used to street sweep in Founders Falls selling drops to the stores and could easily SO out with green SO's constantly.
The devs DID tweak the drop rates and sale values once and that did make it a bit harder but after you had that first 50 all you had to do was twink a lousy 100,000 to 1,000,000 over and that character was set for life.
What I like about the market is now it lets you move to a new server and not have to go through that growing pain. Too bad I already went through it on every server before it existed. 
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Players who didn't have money "back in the day" were just newbs that didn't sell drops to the correct stores.
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No, it was everybody without a level 50 sugar daddy to kit them out.
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Your FIRST toon was a little poor pre-30's but after that I recall VERY vividly making enough to easily re-slot SO's constantly.
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This was not my experience, or the experience of any of my friends.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
[ QUOTE ]
Your personal observations don't sync with mine. My characters have never been richer. I've played long enough to remember how difficult it was for the average player to just buy their first set of SOs. My first level 50, played with at least a few DOs well into her late 20s, and that was fairly common.
Every character I have now can afford a full set of DOs at 12, a full set of SOs at 22 and upgrade to new SOs every 5 levels. However, I don't even bother with SOs anymore because I usually slot level 25 IOs at 22 and never look back, only replacing them when I get sets.
How can the average, casual player complain about being poor?!? 
The game, even without the market, is literally awash with money. One rare salvage drop can easily yield you 1M, which is plenty for your first two sets of SOs. An average player will get multiples (dozens?) of rare drops in the course of getting to 50.
I know of a player who still prefer slotting SOs, and won't get IOs except for the -kb IOs. He sells every recipe he gets for 100 inf, never bothering to craft or optimize on price. Every character he plays has more influence/infamy than he ever needs.
[/ QUOTE ]
And your experiences don't tally with mine at all. In the reasonably early days, if you were level 10 and broke, as there was no Ouroboros, you simply pimped the fortune teller. 50s who missed the fortune teller mission and wanted the atlas medallion had plenty of spare cash, nothing to spend it on, and no other way of getting the badge, so getting 1-10M for letting them on your fortune teller mission was easy, and funded your DO/SOs, particularly if more than one 50 wanted in.
I think part of the reason people consider themselves broke is that they are trying builds that were not particularly fun before IOs. How many pre IO spines/darks did you see ? certainly the numbers exploded post I9. Some of these builds can be done fairly cheaply with IOs, but if you don't do TFs or farm tickets (I do TFs so is not an issue for me) one numinas or miracle unique can easily be more spare cash than you have when you hit 50 without doing anything extravagant on the way.
The second part of feeling broke is that you can no longer do what you used to do with patience on the market. In I13, I created a toon on another server with an almost identical build to one I made in I9/10. The cost was certainly a factor of 4 higher and maybe more than that. Why ? well my best guess is that useful but not uber mid 30s recipes that you used to be able to leave a bid for 20K in for and would get in a week or so, are now being flipped more so you rarely see them for <200K (but there are lots of crafted enhs at 1M+).
Unless I get lucky with drops, I tend to hit 50 with a build full of non top of the line set bonuses, a couple of merit purchased shinies and about 50M in cash. I craft/sell drops that are worth selling and have a reasonable handle on how to maximise cash from my drops without actively marketeering.
To me, what I am able to achieve is reasonably balanced, I haven't made the effort to farm/marketeer to get the ludicrous amounts of inf required to purple out a toon these days, but I still get something much more functional and fun than I did on SOs.
I cripple my own inf generation somewhat by preferring to level toons up than play my 36 (non PLd) 50s and also preferring to play in teams when I can thus minimising drops. I also refuse to farm.
I've just started doing some active marketeering, and am making plenty of inf both sides for any non purple/PVP IOs I could want, but getting into serious purple territory will take me a while.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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[ QUOTE ]
Your personal observations don't sync with mine. My characters have never been richer. I've played long enough to remember how difficult it was for the average player to just buy their first set of SOs. My first level 50, played with at least a few DOs well into her late 20s, and that was fairly common.
Every character I have now can afford a full set of DOs at 12, a full set of SOs at 22 and upgrade to new SOs every 5 levels. However, I don't even bother with SOs anymore because I usually slot level 25 IOs at 22 and never look back, only replacing them when I get sets.
How can the average, casual player complain about being poor?!? The game, even without the market, is literally awash with money. One rare salvage drop can easily yield you 1M, which is plenty for your first two sets of SOs. An average player will get multiples (dozens?) of rare drops in the course of getting to 50.
I know of a player who still prefer slotting SOs, and won't get IOs except for the -kb IOs. He sells every recipe he gets for 100 inf, never bothering to craft or optimize on price. Every character he plays has more influence/infamy than he ever needs.
[/ QUOTE ]
And your experiences don't tally with mine at all. In the reasonably early days, if you were level 10 and broke, as there was no Ouroboros, you simply pimped the fortune teller. 50s who missed the fortune teller mission and wanted the atlas medallion had plenty of spare cash, nothing to spend it on, and no other way of getting the badge, so getting 1-10M for letting them on your fortune teller mission was easy, and funded your DO/SOs, particularly if more than one 50 wanted in.
I think part of the reason people consider themselves broke is that they are trying builds that were not particularly fun before IOs. How many pre IO spines/darks did you see ? certainly the numbers exploded post I9. Some of these builds can be done fairly cheaply with IOs, but if you don't do TFs or farm tickets (I do TFs so is not an issue for me) one numinas or miracle unique can easily be more spare cash than you have when you hit 50 without doing anything extravagant on the way.
The second part of feeling broke is that you can no longer do what you used to do with patience on the market. In I13, I created a toon on another server with an almost identical build to one I made in I9/10. The cost was certainly a factor of 4 higher and maybe more than that. Why ? well my best guess is that useful but not uber mid 30s recipes that you used to be able to leave a bid for 20K in for and would get in a week or so, are now being flipped more so you rarely see them for <200K (but there are lots of crafted enhs at 1M+).
Unless I get lucky with drops, I tend to hit 50 with a build full of non top of the line set bonuses, a couple of merit purchased shinies and about 50M in cash. I craft/sell drops that are worth selling and have a reasonable handle on how to maximise cash from my drops without actively marketeering.
To me, what I am able to achieve is reasonably balanced, I haven't made the effort to farm/marketeer to get the ludicrous amounts of inf required to purple out a toon these days, but I still get something much more functional and fun than I did on SOs.
I cripple my own inf generation somewhat by preferring to level toons up than play my 36 (non PLd) 50s and also preferring to play in teams when I can thus minimising drops. I also refuse to farm.
I've just started doing some active marketeering, and am making plenty of inf both sides for any non purple/PVP IOs I could want, but getting into serious purple territory will take me a while.
[/ QUOTE ]
This post is an amazing combination of having no idea what you're talking about and arriving at reasonable conclusions. Honestly, I can't figure out how you've managed to mesh the two together.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
[ QUOTE ]
This post is an amazing combination of having no idea what you're talking about and arriving at reasonable conclusions. Honestly, I can't figure out how you've managed to mesh the two together.
[/ QUOTE ]
And that's wonderfully constructive, how about telling me which are which and possibly we can get somewhere.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
I'll take a whack at Iltat's contention, since I just read it and was baffled, too.
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In the reasonably early days, if you were level 10 and broke, as there was no Ouroboros, you simply pimped the fortune teller.
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True, but unreasonable. First, many of us don't have the wherewithall to hunt down those 50s. Plus, while all that is happening, leveling could be happening instead. Plus, in the end, I never felt good about taking the tip the couple times I managed to find a 50.
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I think part of the reason people consider themselves broke is that they are trying builds that were not particularly fun before IOs....Some of these builds can be done fairly cheaply with IOs, but if you don't do TFs or farm tickets...one numinas or miracle unique can easily be more spare cash than you have when you hit 50 without doing anything extravagant on the way.
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Unreasonable. You left out far easier Option #3: learn to play the market. Place bids, collect loot, walk away and play. Eventually, you can just buy the Miracle after someone else did the heavy lifting.
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The second part of feeling broke is that you can no longer do what you used to do with patience on the market.
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Dubya T. Eff, Lyndon Baynes Johnson barbeque? Patience and some kind of starting cash (as in 1 influence) and you can do anything you want. I'm on every server, both factions, and some very wierd builds here and there. Patience has worked for everything. Plus this bit doesn't square well with your fine last paragraph.
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Unless I get lucky with drops, I tend to hit 50 with a build full of non top of the line set bonuses, a couple of merit purchased shinies and about 50M in cash. I craft/sell drops that are worth selling and have a reasonable handle on how to maximise cash from my drops without actively marketeering.
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Solution to the "problem" is at the end of the paragraph. You're not the first to post something like that, and you won't be the last. Vive le market forum. 
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I cripple my own inf generation somewhat by preferring to level toons up than play my 36 (non PLd) 50s and also preferring to play in teams when I can thus minimising drops. I also refuse to farm.
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Not as baffling as LBJ's BBQ above, but...unusual, like a Bjork outfit. Any of my broke characters (and I don't have many of those anymore) can start increasing their bankroll simply by playing. It focuses attention on what they need, I can get some severe lowball bids in on things (both to use and to flip), and get set to complete most of their build by level 30. With that done, influence coming in from 31-50 is gravy. No crippling at all. Just not enough time to play all 80+ characters. And the occasional lucky drop helps, too. Team vs. solo play connundrum is a known issue, though.
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I've just started doing some active marketeering, and am making plenty of inf both sides for any non purple/PVP IOs I could want, but getting into serious purple territory will take me a while.
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Best thing in the post. In fact, just keeping that last paragraph would have served you well. Great observation of a work-in-progress, as with many things involving the market.
President of the Arbiter Sands fan club. We will never forget.
An Etruscan Snood will nevermore be free
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In the reasonably early days, if you were level 10 and broke, as there was no Ouroboros, you simply pimped the fortune teller. 50s who missed the fortune teller mission and wanted the atlas medallion had plenty of spare cash, nothing to spend it on, and no other way of getting the badge, so getting 1-10M for letting them on your fortune teller mission was easy, and funded your DO/SOs, particularly if more than one 50 wanted in.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you took the right contact, were the right level when you ran it, recognized what it was, and advertised it appropriately during a high traffic time. All of these things would occur only if you already knew what Fortune Teller was, which would require having played way past that point. This, in turn, makes it no different than depending on a high-level toon to fund your low-level toons. Thus, this was mentioned earlier in the thread as a practice that doesn't have to occur any longer, pointing out that low-level toons get richer faster without the support of a higher-level toon. That negates your story because you actually support the new system over the old by way of that story.
[ QUOTE ]
I think part of the reason people consider themselves broke is that they are trying builds that were not particularly fun before IOs. How many pre IO spines/darks did you see ? certainly the numbers exploded post I9. Some of these builds can be done fairly cheaply with IOs, but if you don't do TFs or farm tickets (I do TFs so is not an issue for me) one numinas or miracle unique can easily be more spare cash than you have when you hit 50 without doing anything extravagant on the way.
[/ QUOTE ]
One doesn't need a Miracle or Num in order to have enough set bonuses to make a Spines/Dark playable. It's not a matter of people playing tougher sets, it's a matter of people seeing rare things they want that are expensive and not recognizing the difference between need and want. They want to have everything that is expensive, whether it's needed or not. This is the issue. It doesn't matter if the character naturally has end issues or not, people want the expensive shinies.
[ QUOTE ]
The second part of feeling broke is that you can no longer do what you used to do with patience on the market. In I13, I created a toon on another server with an almost identical build to one I made in I9/10. The cost was certainly a factor of 4 higher and maybe more than that. Why ? well my best guess is that useful but not uber mid 30s recipes that you used to be able to leave a bid for 20K in for and would get in a week or so, are now being flipped more so you rarely see them for <200K (but there are lots of crafted enhs at 1M+).
[/ QUOTE ]
This is you scapegoating flippers. No flippers are making money off semi-useful recipes in the mid-30s that barely clear 500K profit. That's not a dependable enough supply to consistently work, more profit than that can be made almost anywhere on the market, and there's not high enough demand to make that scheme pan out. Flippers are going to flip the things that generate the most profit for their time, and that market set would be a joke when examined from that viewpoint. High prices directly correlate to people wanting to buy things now. You can blame those individuals for higher prices, not flippers/crafters who, by definition, want to keep the price of ingredients (such as recipes) down to maximize their profit.
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Unless I get lucky with drops, I tend to hit 50 with a build full of non top of the line set bonuses, a couple of merit purchased shinies and about 50M in cash. I craft/sell drops that are worth selling and have a reasonable handle on how to maximise cash from my drops without actively marketeering.
[/ QUOTE ]
This shows that you're not solid with the numbers (since buying is cheaper than merit-purchasing) yet still make plenty by the time you ding 50, which was what the original poster claimed didn't happen. Thus, you've made a valid observation based on faulty reasoning.
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To me, what I am able to achieve is reasonably balanced, I haven't made the effort to farm/marketeer to get the ludicrous amounts of inf required to purple out a toon these days, but I still get something much more functional and fun than I did on SOs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Another valid observation.
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I cripple my own inf generation somewhat by preferring to level toons up than play my 36 (non PLd) 50s and also preferring to play in teams when I can thus minimising drops. I also refuse to farm.
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Borderline valid. In reality, playing toons up exposes those toons to drops all along the way that are not available to 50s, many of which are extremely valuable for that exact reason. Farming is unnecessary if one enjoys TFs, as merits can lead to large inf infusions, and odds are you're more motivated to play on a regular basis by leveling toons up as opposed to getting burned out on 50s. This, in the long run, helps your inf generation because you play more overall. So, basically, short-term, you do cripple your inf per kill by playing lower level toons, but your tortoise still competes in the neverending race.
[ QUOTE ]
I've just started doing some active marketeering, and am making plenty of inf both sides for any non purple/PVP IOs I could want, but getting into serious purple territory will take me a while.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you're marketeering intelligently, it will happen much faster than you think.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
Crafting alone can yield quite a bit of influence even at low levels. Certainly more than you usually need (unless you want to slot IO sets from 1-50).
I've played the crafting game (up until recently when the salvage market went into the toilet as people stopped playing missions and started playing AE), and as long as you're willing to be patient, you can easily crack 1 mil at lvl 6. Granted, you won't be running missions, but by the time you do, you may have all your slots filled with basic IOs, some of which you crafted yourself.
Now, granted, I've never brought a toon past lvl 35 (Hi, I'm Solo, and I'm an altaholic), but even so, I have plenty of friends who have lvl 50s, and who know how to play the market.
What's really interesting is that AE is having a SERIOUS effect on the market. With the shortage of lowbie salvage, and the fact that even high level stuff needs lowbie salvage, the market is getting all kinds of screwed up (mostly because people haven't figured out they can just play Ouroboros missions). I'm sure that this will impact the lowbies' ability to make money, at least until the market re-stabilizes or the devs do something to make salvage drop in AE missions (ha!).
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Crafting alone can yield quite a bit of influence even at low levels. Certainly more than you usually need (unless you want to slot IO sets from 1-50).
[/ QUOTE ]
With zero marketeering, I was able to begin slotting set IOs on my most recent project, a DB/Regen, at Level 17. He currently has over 100 million inf and is fully slotted with set IOs (solid ones for +Recov including some Miracle pieces). He's Level 38. He has still yet to do any marketeering.
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I've played the crafting game (up until recently when the salvage market went into the toilet as people stopped playing missions and started playing AE), and as long as you're willing to be patient, you can easily crack 1 mil at lvl 6. Granted, you won't be running missions, but by the time you do, you may have all your slots filled with basic IOs, some of which you crafted yourself.
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You can't get IOs at Level 6. You don't need 1 mil at Level 6. You'll have plenty by 12, when you can start to benefit more.
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Now, granted, I've never brought a toon past lvl 35 (Hi, I'm Solo, and I'm an altaholic), but even so, I have plenty of friends who have lvl 50s, and who know how to play the market.
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Hi, Solo. I'll bet you get a lot of good drops.
[ QUOTE ]
What's really interesting is that AE is having a SERIOUS effect on the market. With the shortage of lowbie salvage, and the fact that even high level stuff needs lowbie salvage, the market is getting all kinds of screwed up (mostly because people haven't figured out they can just play Ouroboros missions). I'm sure that this will impact the lowbies' ability to make money, at least until the market re-stabilizes or the devs do something to make salvage drop in AE missions (ha!).
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're saying lowbies are making more money now than ever? That's what's screwed up?
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
[ QUOTE ]
What's really interesting is that AE is having a SERIOUS effect on the market. With the shortage of lowbie salvage, and the fact that even high level stuff needs lowbie salvage, the market is getting all kinds of screwed up (mostly because people haven't figured out they can just play Ouroboros missions). I'm sure that this will impact the lowbies' ability to make money, at least until the market re-stabilizes or the devs do something to make salvage drop in AE missions (ha!).
[/ QUOTE ]
uh wha?
how does expensive low level salvage "screw up" the ability of low level characters to make inf?
I'm confused.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
[ QUOTE ]
With zero marketeering, I was able to begin slotting set IOs on my most recent project, a DB/Regen, at Level 17. He currently has over 100 million inf and is fully slotted with set IOs (solid ones for +Recov including some Miracle pieces). He's Level 38. He has still yet to do any marketeering.
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Yeah, I'm not even talking marketeering in the sense of "I'll wait for the price to spike.....NOW!" or anything like that. And your'e right that a lot of IO sets are pretty inexpensive (although some ingredients remain high priced).
[ QUOTE ]
You can't get IOs at Level 6. You don't need 1 mil at Level 6. You'll have plenty by 12, when you can start to benefit more.
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Well, my point was more that you can make a bunch of cash early on and be slotting IOs (not sets, just regular IOs) ASAP if you just craft and sell stuff.
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Hi, Solo. I'll bet you get a lot of good drops.
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Actually, yeah, I do. And some especially lucky ones have allowed several toons to really cash in.
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So you're saying lowbies are making more money now than ever? That's what's screwed up?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, what's screwed up is the price structure, and it's going to get worse until more lowbie salvage starts entering the market. Lowbies can make a bunch of cash right now (that is if there are any lowbies left....), but they won't be able to buy anything for a while. In the past few days, I've seen Luck Charms spike from their usual 50K cost to 100K. I've seen Runes, which usually hovered around 5-10K spike to 100K.
What's happening is that high level toons who want to craft IO set pieces need some lowbie salvage to do so. These guys look at 100K as money to burn, so they don't think twice when they want that (spiritual essence/alchemical gold/runebound armor/whatever) RIGHT NOW.
There was a point yesterday when there were LITERALLY 20 total runes on the market at once, and something like 1700 bids for them.
Anyway, what I'm seeing is this:
1.) It looks like lowbies either don't exist, are all busy running AE farm missions, or are hoarding what salvage they get. Total salvage numbers are way low for certain things, especially lowbie salvage (and especially lowbie ARCANE salvage).
2.) The prices for what's there have, naturally, climbed considerably. None of this is a bad thing, but it's going to take a while for the market to sort itself out and for more salvage to make its way into the market. That or the market will die out for a while as everyone goes off to Ouroboros to get salvage (or lowbies start slooooowly playing through missions and getting new salvage).
3.) If you have lowbie toons, and are willing to wait a bit, now is the time to do the following: (A) turn off XP gain, (B) start running missions vs. the circle of thorns, (C) sell ALL your lowbie stuff all the time.
4.) if you have mid-to-high level toons who don't want to spend 100K on a single piece of lowbie salvage, go run flashback missions or join a lowbie taskforce (I'll bet you'd get TONS of stuff from the Posi TF).
Just my observations. That said, it's still not hard to make a bunch of cash if you're willing to take the time to do so.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's really interesting is that AE is having a SERIOUS effect on the market. With the shortage of lowbie salvage, and the fact that even high level stuff needs lowbie salvage, the market is getting all kinds of screwed up (mostly because people haven't figured out they can just play Ouroboros missions). I'm sure that this will impact the lowbies' ability to make money, at least until the market re-stabilizes or the devs do something to make salvage drop in AE missions (ha!).
[/ QUOTE ]
uh wha?
how does expensive low level salvage "screw up" the ability of low level characters to make inf?
I'm confused.
[/ QUOTE ]
It can affect things two ways:
1.) It makes it harder for lowbies who want to craft to buy components (if they haven't gotten drops that work).
2.) It means they have to keep selling salvage which may or may not earn them as much as they'd get if they were crafting.
Now, if salvage prices spike to a point where the parts of an enhancement outprice the enhancement itself, lowbies will do fine. But it could also mean that they have a more tedious road ahead of them, depending on how their server's market is playing out.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that this will impact the lowbies' ability to make money, at least until the market re-stabilizes or the devs do something to make salvage drop in AE missions (ha!).
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically, salavage do "drop" in AE missions, since people can trade tickets in for all sorts of salvage. Personally, rare salvage from tickets has been extremely helpful, but that's besides the point.
Anyways, the lack of certain salvages in certain ranges are because AE players willingly choose to get recipes from their tickets instead. Theoretically, there would be a price point in which getting salvage from tickets would be more profitable than recipes, but never ever underestimate the laziness (or is it stupidity?) of the playerbase.
[ QUOTE ]
No, what's screwed up is the price structure, and it's going to get worse until more lowbie salvage starts entering the market. Lowbies can make a bunch of cash right now (that is if there are any lowbies left....), but they won't be able to buy anything for a while. In the past few days, I've seen Luck Charms spike from their usual 50K cost to 100K. I've seen Runes, which usually hovered around 5-10K spike to 100K.
What's happening is that high level toons who want to craft IO set pieces need some lowbie salvage to do so. These guys look at 100K as money to burn, so they don't think twice when they want that (spiritual essence/alchemical gold/runebound armor/whatever) RIGHT NOW.
There was a point yesterday when there were LITERALLY 20 total runes on the market at once, and something like 1700 bids for them.
Anyway, what I'm seeing is this:
1.) It looks like lowbies either don't exist, are all busy running AE farm missions, or are hoarding what salvage they get. Total salvage numbers are way low for certain things, especially lowbie salvage (and especially lowbie ARCANE salvage).
2.) The prices for what's there have, naturally, climbed considerably. None of this is a bad thing, but it's going to take a while for the market to sort itself out and for more salvage to make its way into the market. That or the market will die out for a while as everyone goes off to Ouroboros to get salvage (or lowbies start slooooowly playing through missions and getting new salvage).
3.) If you have lowbie toons, and are willing to wait a bit, now is the time to do the following: (A) turn off XP gain, (B) start running missions vs. the circle of thorns, (C) sell ALL your lowbie stuff all the time.
4.) if you have mid-to-high level toons who don't want to spend 100K on a single piece of lowbie salvage, go run flashback missions or join a lowbie taskforce (I'll bet you'd get TONS of stuff from the Posi TF).
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you're thinking it all the way through.
As a lowbie, your playtime will require you to wait before you can buy more enhancements. You simply don't have slots to put them in. This waiting is when you can make lots of money AND get what you want for cheap.
You mention the Rune price. In 2 days, it will drop back down. Hell, there will probably be sales at regular price over the next 2 days. In the meantime, you'll be trying to level. So, if you know you'll need a Rune when you ding 17, just put the bid in at the regular price and walk away.
Highbies inflate prices temporarily on common items. Not permanently. Thus, you can make extra money by selling your goods (since highbies are inflating their price) and save money by just leaving bids up because you don't need the item right now. No need to turn off XP. Just think ahead one level. When you're at 16, put your bids in for 20s. By the time you hit 17, they will have filled.
It's not going to take awhile for salvage to make its way to the market. Spikes are always accompanied by lowball offers being filled. Just be the lowballer for the stuff you're going to need.
For example:
Last 5:
Rune
60000
50000
51111
15000
21000
Symbol
20000
16000
15000
15000
50
Alchemical Gold
7500
60000
50000
50000
55000
Ancient Bone
5000
5000
40000
40000
51111
Data Drive
5000
12000
10000
5000
111
Inert Gas
25000
50001
25000
5000
5000
All these people saved money. All it took was a modicum of patience. When people complain that prices are too high, almost invariably, it's because they're not patient. That's the only thing required for lowbies to have excess cash while still slotting out with set IOs.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
[ QUOTE ]
Now, if salvage prices spike to a point where the parts of an enhancement outprice the enhancement itself, lowbies will do fine. But it could also mean that they have a more tedious road ahead of them, depending on how their server's market is playing out.
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It has always been the case that a patient buyer can get crafted common IOs for less than the price of the components, thanks to badgers. When Luck Charms were going for 70-100K, I used to buy Acc IOs which were crafted with Luck Charms for 17K, typically getting 5-10 of them per night. I would often sell them the next day for 200-350K, but kept them when I could use them. That's the power of the market earning you inf while you sleep.
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
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It can affect things two ways:
1.) It makes it harder for lowbies who want to craft to buy components (if they haven't gotten drops that work).
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That isn't a "screw up", that's how the game works.
Smart players adapt to the market. Low level salvage through the roof? Time to sell!
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2.) It means they have to keep selling salvage which may or may not earn them as much as they'd get if they were crafting.
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So?
Again, that's how the system works, not a "screw up".
People find niches and those niches dry up all the time. When profits in one niche die off, it's time to find a new one.
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Now, if salvage prices spike to a point where the parts of an enhancement outprice the enhancement itself, lowbies will do fine.
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Lowbies will do fine regardless.
You seem to feel players are owed some level of profit for crafting. News flash- they aren't. It's up to players to be responsive and switch up their schemes when the environment dictates a change.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I don't think you're thinking it all the way through.
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LIES!!
Ok, maybe not.
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As a lowbie, your playtime will require you to wait before you can buy more enhancements. You simply don't have slots to put them in. This waiting is when you can make lots of money AND get what you want for cheap.
You mention the Rune price. In 2 days, it will drop back down. Hell, there will probably be sales at regular price over the next 2 days. In the meantime, you'll be trying to level. So, if you know you'll need a Rune when you ding 17, just put the bid in at the regular price and walk away.
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That's certainly true. and that's how several of my toons made money early on -- crafting stuff they just didn't need or couldn't use, and selling other things they wouldn't get any mileage out of.
I already do the thing where I'll post at a given price and then just walk away and figure it'll end up bought eventually. Sometimes it can take months, though, but usually it ends up worth it.
However, I'm not sure I agree that prices will level out soon. That won't happen unless/until there's an influx of actual salvage. I regularly see lowbie salvage running around 100-150. Some stuff gets backlogged, like computer virii, and you can end up with 700 of something, but generally the range is around 150-300 on average. Lately, that's dropped precipitously. Maybe the devs bought up a bunch of it just to create a drop and get people going back to missions instead of farming. I don't know. But a lot of stuff dropped (in numbers) drastically over the last week.
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Highbies inflate prices temporarily on common items. Not permanently. Thus, you can make extra money by selling your goods (since highbies are inflating their price) and save money by just leaving bids up because you don't need the item right now. No need to turn off XP. Just think ahead one level. When you're at 16, put your bids in for 20s. By the time you hit 17, they will have filled.
It's not going to take awhile for salvage to make its way to the market. Spikes are always accompanied by lowball offers being filled. Just be the lowballer for the stuff you're going to need.
For example:
[snip]
All these people saved money. All it took was a modicum of patience. When people complain that prices are too high, almost invariably, it's because they're not patient. That's the only thing required for lowbies to have excess cash while still slotting out with set IOs.
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Agreed, that patience pays off. I do that frequently when I'm logging out -- put in lowball bids for stuff I'll want, and figure it'll show up when I log back in (or in a day or two).
But what I'm talking about is the fact that there is a LOT less of stuff than there often is, or at least there's been a noticeable shortage over the last week or so. I mean, honestly, 20 pieces of common lowbie salvage up on the market and 1700 something bids for it? THAT's pretty wacky. Great opportunity for lowbies to post stuff -- and those that play the market will hopefully flood it with more (thereby driving prices back down) soon, but the strange thing is that I'm not seeing people doing that.
A lot of my early money was made by playing high-low games. Buy pieces low (brass + inanimate carbon rod), craft a damage enhancement or two, and sell high. When brass and ICRs were selling for, like, 50-100 a piece, and damage recipes were going for around 1000, you made a serious margin even if you sold for only 100K. I took one toon and built up his reserves to about a million doing that, then got a rare drop and sold that for several million more. The first million was all done around level 6, though, when he couldn't use much.
That kind of approach, I think, becomes a lot harder if common salvage goes through the roof. now, if the lowbie is running missions and selling common salvage for good money, that doesn't matter so much, but i think a lot of lowbies are just skipping missions (especially people who have lots of alts and re-roll a lot and are sick of lvls 1-22).
Ah, now I understand what you're talking about. Unfortunately, it seems you suffer from just not having enough market experience to recognize that the entire process will continue to shift. We've had times when Circuit Boards actually ran out, Energy Weapons, Simple Chemicals, and a host of others. It happens. What will fix it is seeing some people start to sell them for high numbers to highbies. That, naturally, brings people back to listing them, and we see it balance out again. In the meantime, lowball bids will continue to fill.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
I've got decent experience with the markets, but I've never seen anything actually run out. Anyway, if things get tight again, I'll just run lowbie missions via Ouroboros with an alt or continue to level up one of my lowbie toons.
I just find it remarkable that stuff that was so plentiful has all bit disappeared. I do still wonder what long-term effect AE farming will have on this, though.
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In the meantime, lowball bids will continue to fill.
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I've been making hay on uncommons, buying at 9k and selling for RIDICULOUS prices, 100k+.
Patience still works, folks.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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But it could also mean that they have a more tedious road ahead of them, depending on how their server's market is playing out.
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The markets are cross server. Were you using the words "server's market" to mean something other than Wentworth's and the Black Market?
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In the meantime, lowball bids will continue to fill.
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I've been making hay on uncommons, buying at 9k and selling for RIDICULOUS prices, 100k+.
Patience still works, folks.
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QFT!
Making money in WW is a piece of cheesecake and the high prices and instability of the market makes it all the more delicious! I started out (hero-side) simply enough with the tutorial insps and ehnancements. I played through a sewer run to get the inf to list my insps. Once they sold I posted some low bids (12K just in case the Goat was bidding on the same item) and then listed them to sell high (100K). People wanted them bad enough that they paid the high price, but could have just as easily bid 13K to beat me out. From that point on it was just a gradual climb to bigger and better things as well as an increased flow of inf.
Sure, there has been a shift in the market since AE, but it hasn't broken the market. Rather, the opportunities for raking in the inf has been made even easier. For the most part I just play the market, but I could just as easily run AE missions for tickets and then buy the salvage from the ticket vendor.
The AE has made making inf easier than ever. If you happen to notice one of those pieces of salvage that is running low on inventory, all you have to do is cash in some tickets and rake in the profits on the low-supply side of the curve.
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And your experiences don't tally with mine at all. In the reasonably early days, if you were level 10 and broke, as there was no Ouroboros, you simply pimped the fortune teller. 50s who missed the fortune teller mission and wanted the atlas medallion had plenty of spare cash, nothing to spend it on, and no other way of getting the badge, so getting 1-10M for letting them on your fortune teller mission was easy, and funded your DO/SOs, particularly if more than one 50 wanted in.
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As been pointed out before, there's no difference between this and getting a transfer from a higher level character. Also, I've been playing before they implemented badges? What ever did you do back then?
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I think part of the reason people consider themselves broke is that they are trying builds that were not particularly fun before IOs. How many pre IO spines/darks did you see ? certainly the numbers exploded post I9. Some of these builds can be done fairly cheaply with IOs, but if you don't do TFs or farm tickets (I do TFs so is not an issue for me) one numinas or miracle unique can easily be more spare cash than you have when you hit 50 without doing anything extravagant on the way.
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You seem to have me mistaken for someone who's whining about being poor. I'm not. My characters have never been richer.
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The second part of feeling broke is that you can no longer do what you used to do with patience on the market. In I13, I created a toon on another server with an almost identical build to one I made in I9/10. The cost was certainly a factor of 4 higher and maybe more than that. Why ? well my best guess is that useful but not uber mid 30s recipes that you used to be able to leave a bid for 20K in for and would get in a week or so, are now being flipped more so you rarely see them for <200K (but there are lots of crafted enhs at 1M+).
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Disagree. But I'll leave you to your delusions.
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Unless I get lucky with drops, I tend to hit 50 with a build full of non top of the line set bonuses, a couple of merit purchased shinies and about 50M in cash. I craft/sell drops that are worth selling and have a reasonable handle on how to maximise cash from my drops without actively marketeering.
To me, what I am able to achieve is reasonably balanced, I haven't made the effort to farm/marketeer to get the ludicrous amounts of inf required to purple out a toon these days, but I still get something much more functional and fun than I did on SOs.
I cripple my own inf generation somewhat by preferring to level toons up than play my 36 (non PLd) 50s and also preferring to play in teams when I can thus minimising drops. I also refuse to farm.
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Disagree again. Most of my 50s finish with hundreds of millions banked without farming.
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Making money in WW is a piece of cheesecake and the high prices and instability of the market is the delicious strawberry topping.
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Fixt due to cheesecake.
President of the Arbiter Sands fan club. We will never forget.
An Etruscan Snood will nevermore be free
Silly ironblade, if he cant have purples nao he's underpowered and thats unfair. *sarcasm*
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