Mastermind Pet Customization


008Zulu

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
That doesn't follow... and isn't what I said. Fire is fire. Ice is ice. A character can do whatever it wants. And that is my subjective opinion. Besides, since when does clothing, in this game, impact powers?

What I did say, and what I do mean, is that possessing the Thugs set, for example, should not allow you to create Robots or Zombies or Bunnies (actual bunnies)... because those things are not Thugs. A character can do whatever he wants with his character and his concept, but a thing is a thing is a thing. A rock does not get called a telephone, because, well, it's a ROCK!
A bunny that holds you up at gun point is still a thug...lol


Classic Dungeon Crawl Arc ID: 2232-"A satirical look at your average dungeon"
Down the Rabbit Hole Arc IDs: 24346 24397-"Rescue a little girl from an insidious dream invader."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangler View Post
I'd just be happy if they let us recolour the current models. The real kicker is that you can already recolour them in the AE editor.
This would make me perfectly happy. I wonder how hard it'd be to implement for players, though. It probably works in a vastly different manner, somehow, otherwise we'd already have it.


 

Posted

The easiest way I can think of doing this is making preset models for each pet, maybe two or three more, that's adjustable in power customization. Much like how you can change Footstomp from looking like a stomp to a punch to the ground.

What I REALLY want to see though is COLOUR customization. Really, the new models can be set to the back burner if needed, but I want to be able to make all my thugs wear purple for example, so that they're flashing their 'colours'.

I'm sure if the devs hear about it they'll get to it when they can. They must have a laundry list of stuff to do already.


 

Posted

I just want to post what I'd like to do with the only MM I have. I have a Ninja MM and I'd just really like to be able to design my ninja henchmen with the given robe/martial arts costume pieces that have been added since MM's first came out. I dont want to make them women to be a pimp, I dont want to make them 3 feet tall...I just want to make each one look unique enough so that my henchmen dont look like twins, and dont look like your Ninja Henchmen. That is my one problem with this very unique powerset...if I'm a ninja MM and you are a Ninja MM, the suspension of disbelief is shatterd when your henchmen look exactly like mine.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingCanadian View Post
I just want to post what I'd like to do with the only MM I have. I have a Ninja MM and I'd just really like to be able to design my ninja henchmen with the given robe/martial arts costume pieces that have been added since MM's first came out. I dont want to make them women to be a pimp, I dont want to make them 3 feet tall...I just want to make each one look unique enough so that my henchmen dont look like twins, and dont look like your Ninja Henchmen. That is my one problem with this very unique powerset...if I'm a ninja MM and you are a Ninja MM, the suspension of disbelief is shatterd when your henchmen look exactly like mine.
Yeah. I totally agree on that. I'd like to customize them just so they're unique. Giving them silly names doesn't quite do it for me.

The worst part is, the basic motiff design is something you don't even need a professional artist for. Players could do it in AE, or using the costume designer. I wish they'd hold a contest for it or something, because I'm sure a lot of players would contribute to it, and it would save a lot of effort for devs. (Except then they'd have to judge the contest....so maybe it doesn't balance out?)

As for pimping concerns.... maybe they could just set it so that only female MM characters can have female pets?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA View Post
As for pimping concerns.... maybe they could just set it so that only female MM characters can have female pets?
Or realise that "pimping concerns" are stupid and get over it?


 

Posted

Or just understand that since MMs have been introduced, weve asked for this and theyve said no.

This is not a new suggestion, heck, this is brought up at least 30 times in a 30 day span. The Devs have said no, and probably will keep saying no.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin_Wilson View Post
Or just understand that since MMs have been introduced, weve asked for this and theyve said no.

This is not a new suggestion, heck, this is brought up at least 30 times in a 30 day span. The Devs have said no, and probably will keep saying no.
That used to be their response to power customisation too.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
That used to be their response to power customisation too.
No, the Devs said they would look into it though it only took them 3 years.

Seriously, Weve asked for DPs for years and the original power set has been in the game since the release; ie, Malta and Skulls, which Id say 99% of us would have been happy with, but they had to go all "special" and make it pretty, which again, took 3 years.

Dont hold your breath for this. Those of us who have been here since day 1 have given up on it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin_Wilson View Post
This is not a new suggestion, heck, this is brought up at least 30 times in a 30 day span. The Devs have said no, and probably will keep saying no.
Last I heard, they gave a definite no comment. They did say that it would require different tech than normal Power Customization.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. They know we want it, and MMs going blueside increases they chance that they'll try due to more players using MMs. They've never said that it's just plain impossible as far as I know, so I see no reason to assume that it'll never happen.


Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingCanadian View Post
I just want to post what I'd like to do with the only MM I have. I have a Ninja MM and I'd just really like to be able to design my ninja henchmen with the given robe/martial arts costume pieces that have been added since MM's first came out. I dont want to make them women to be a pimp, I dont want to make them 3 feet tall...I just want to make each one look unique enough so that my henchmen dont look like twins, and dont look like your Ninja Henchmen. That is my one problem with this very unique powerset...if I'm a ninja MM and you are a Ninja MM, the suspension of disbelief is shatterd when your henchmen look exactly like mine.
FightingCanadian, I do understand your point. And I agree that henchman customization would be great. I doubt we'll ever get it though. and for your ninja...

Yes, your ninja should look so very different then any other ninja. Because a ninjitsu outfit is so unlike any other ninjitsu outfit. Traditionally they should be black (night ops) or white (winter ops). And they should all look different because a ninja's true advantage is that they are indistinguishable from anyone else. The ninja garb we traditionally think of is designed for stealth and keeping one's identity secret after all.

Granted, it's more likely if you saw a real ninja, you'd not know it.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin_Wilson View Post
Or just understand that since MMs have been introduced, weve asked for this and theyve said no.

This is not a new suggestion, heck, this is brought up at least 30 times in a 30 day span. The Devs have said no, and probably will keep saying no.
It's funny, the devs are master showmen/women. I asked about rumors of an electric control set on the Controllers forum about a month ago, and Castle came on and semi-authoritatively said there would be no Electric Control set. You can well imagine I was ecstatic when I found out that there will be one in GR.

So, sure. They'll probably keep saying no. It doesn't mean they won't do it. It just means they don't want to be held to doing it and/or it's down on their list of priorities below a few other things they consider more important.

However: after the amazing art they put into DS, I don't see customization happening anytime soon. Those demons are customized way beyond costume selection options, so making more demon looks would probably be a lot more work than just going into a AE and changing their hoofs, or horns.


 

Posted

Part of this whole thing seems to be the way the game references NPC's...It makes me wonder if/when they get a way to customize NPC models used for players in granite armor/kheldian forms the same might allow mastermind pet changes.

That said, I cannot see them making 'fully customized' pets using the character costume options. That would involve the game referencing hundreds of seperate models per minion...the devs already mentioned that some of the limits for things like hammi raids and such involved how much strain 50 masterminds would put on the system. 50 masterminds with around 6 fully customized pets would equate to the same thing as 350 players.

The NPC model approach simplifies this, as the game doesn't have to see head option X, head detail1 Y, head detail 2 B, hair style L, chest F, Shoulder D, Chest detail M, Glove R, Belt A, Pants V, Boots K, Back G...the game just has to do "Zombie F." I think the compromise would be akin to weapon model customization...different NPC models, perhaps with a selectable primary/secondary color. So just as you can choose between a nemesis gun, a council gun, or several other gun models for assault rifle, your zombie mastermind could choose between a traditional zombie, a skeleton, or a civilian zombie model.

If they allowed any customization further than that, they might allow for NPC recoloring like we see in the mission architect for traditional NPC models. (Where you select a model, like a carnie, color them black and white, change skin tone, but you cannot alter the model itself.)


 

Posted

Okay, let's work this out. Let's say you want to have different looks for each of your henchmen. You're Thugs, to make this simple. You want each of your three Thugs, both Enforcers, and your Bruiser to have a unique look with character level detail.

That's six costumes right off the bat.

Now remember that with Mastermind powers, when you upgrade a henchman using Equip Thugs and Upgrade Equipment (or whatever), their look changes. Some added on bit of armor or aura or other do-dad. That's actually a separate costume from the original, that just looks the same with the upgrades added to it. There are two upgrade powers per set, which means you have to add three more costumes for each henchman: one for with only the first upgrade, one for with only the second upgrade, and one for with both.

So six henchmen need four costumes apiece, for a total of twenty four unique costumes for each mastermind costume.

Now remember that each costume slot on a character is able to have differently customized powers. Presumably then your henchmen would fall into this category, so each costume slot would allow you to choose unique looks for your little horde.

At twenty four unique costumes for each of five slots, that becomes one hundred and twenty costumes, plus the five for the character themselves to make it one hundred and twenty five, per mastermind. (we won't even discuss customizing the thugs in Gang War)

125, people, ain't nothing to sneeze at.

One hundred and twenty five costumes. Even if I'm wrong about how the henchman upgrade costumes work, it still ends up being a rather good sized number.


You want to know the secret of the world? It's this: Save it, and it'll repay you, every second of every day.
@Dr. Reverend - My DeviantArt Gallery
Crow Call - Gods of the Golden Age

 

Posted

If you're curious..you can fool around with a sort of "customization" for MM pets in AE. You can change the colors of various pets costumes and body parts. If we get customization thats my guess on what it will look..sort of an extension of power customization.

What I'd love to see is the ability to purchase NPC skins for pets. Sort of like the Halloween costumes. These could be sold as "Packs" in the NC store. For example you could purchase a pack to make your Zombes look like Vahzilok or Thugs like "Family". Heck even customize your Mercs to look like Arachnos or Longbow. I bet people would pay $$ for that especially with GR and side switching coming up soon.


My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi

 

Posted

My curiousity is if it would take much additional programing to give the option to just switch the basic frame from the male to the female model, leaving everything else the same?

Personally, I think the devs are afraid of seeing large numbers of girl gangs running around loose, lol


 

Posted

if they can't set up pet customization, what about adding in a little more variety? perhaps carnie or circus minions, or perhaps mutated deformed minions. that would have been nice on the mutation booster. perhaps just an alternate version of each of the existing minions? i don't know how many times i've heard somebody say they wished there were clown minions.



p.s.
this is my first time posting in the forums, so i hope i don't come off as sounding trollish.


 

Posted

Wow. Necro'd threads ftw!

As long as this is back on the first page, I'd like to agree with the (probably) 50+ people who said they only want the ability to use NPC skins on their pets.

Give us 3 options. Per set. Easy as.. well, I have no idea. But it eliminates the coding for custom costumes and colors and genders and animations. NPCs already have all of that.

Here's some very quick ideas, which I'm sure have been posted somewhere in this thread.

Mercs
Basic (as is)
Longbow
Malta

Thugs
Basic (as is)
Freakshow
Hellions (or Skuls or Outcasts... you get it)

Bots
Basic (as is)
The steampunk guys (drawing a blank on the name)
Clockwork

Undead
Basic (as is)
Vasil...Vasilo... Vasilo.. however you spell it
And there's one set of undead that run around on blue side in the teens. I always forget to take note of the enemy group, but every time I see them, I think to myself "DANG! If my zombies looked like that - with the army helmets and stuff - that would be awesome!"

Ninjas
Basic (as is)
Honestly... I have no idea.

Demons
Basic (as is)
The demons...
Imps

Wow, that is a very incomplete list. Sorry


But, more to the point, every one of those NPC models already has the animations needed for the attacks current minions get. Most also have minor costume variations within the set, that would allow for the "upgrades" to be placed on them similar to how they are now.


 

Posted

Eh, some of those would be annoying to work with (I.E. Most freakshow don't have normal arms and would have trouble with dual pistol animations) I was thinking more...

Mercs
Base
Malta
Longbow
Arachnos Wolf Spiders
PPD SWAT

Thugs
Base
Hellions
Skulls
Trolls
PPD (Regular, not SWAT)

Undead
Base
Vasilok
Banished Pantheon
CoT
And maybe zombies from the halloween event

Ninja
Base
Tsoo
Knives of Artemis

Bots
Base
Clockwork
Nemesis Robots
Praetorian Clockwork

Demons
Base
CoT/Infernal Demons


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend View Post
Okay, let's work this out. Let's say you want to have different looks for each of your henchmen. You're Thugs, to make this simple. You want each of your three Thugs, both Enforcers, and your Bruiser to have a unique look with character level detail.

That's six costumes right off the bat.
Not a problem yet...

Quote:
Now remember that with Mastermind powers, when you upgrade a henchman using Equip Thugs and Upgrade Equipment (or whatever), their look changes. Some added on bit of armor or aura or other do-dad. That's actually a separate costume from the original, that just looks the same with the upgrades added to it. There are two upgrade powers per set, which means you have to add three more costumes for each henchman: one for with only the first upgrade, one for with only the second upgrade, and one for with both.

So six henchmen need four costumes apiece, for a total of twenty four unique costumes for each mastermind costume.
This is an easy fix, just have the henchmen spawn with your customized appearance. The little do-dads are just for appearances sake anyway. If they are just basic spawned, then they just don't use the powers -- so your customized robot might have a rocket array, it doesn't doesn't have ammo for it until you upgrade it. Non-issue..

Quote:
Now remember that each costume slot on a character is able to have differently customized powers. Presumably then your henchmen would fall into this category, so each costume slot would allow you to choose unique looks for your little horde.

At twenty four unique costumes for each of five slots, that becomes one hundred and twenty costumes, plus the five for the character themselves to make it one hundred and twenty five, per mastermind. (we won't even discuss customizing the thugs in Gang War)

125, people, ain't nothing to sneeze at.

One hundred and twenty five costumes. Even if I'm wrong about how the henchman upgrade costumes work, it still ends up being a rather good sized number.
Time to upgrade your pentium 125 records is not a lot. I own a company that builds databases (among other things) and I can tell you that the size of this information is just not the problem. Its the work involved -- which I expect NCSoft to do anyway since we all want it and ask for it everyday -- but the size or amount of the records isn't a problem for modern computers. Any modern database can handle millions and millions of records, building one that can handle billions isn't a huge task, its not the 1995 anymore.

I honestly have no idea what kind of computer hardware or operating systems or software that NCSoft uses -- but most systems these days are farm-type designs and you can just add more to them. Diskspace works the same way, you have storage area networks with pools. Just add more. Its magic! Seriously though, its actually incredibly cool.

Back to the point -- think of it this way, look at your character as it is. He has records for his health, endurance, possibly more than a thousand badges (Boolean values each), infamy, experience, a record of how many of each type of mob slain in the game, what parts of the maps you've explored, chances are there are already thousands of records per character. Since we would probably skip the upgrade appearance changes (they are pointless anyway) thats only like 30 more records on an MM's profile. I doubt the system would notice that. Loading the textures in game.. well, again, we have modern computers now. CoX isn't running cutting edge high rez textures and models, it should be fine.

So really, the whole issue is just that its a lot of work to make changes to existing code. When MM Pet customization shows up eventually we'll all be treated to a new wave of pet bugs It'll be worth it ;P