The big reason for MM pet customization is for thematic reasons. For example, my namesake, General Lewisite (Mercs/Poison -- great for bosses and pvp, not so great on the chaff minions) has a theme with poisons, toxins and chemical weapons in general. He looks the part except for the truly bizarre poison animations (spitting?? please.) I'd be happy if I could change some of the animations as far as the personal attacks go for a few trees...
... as for the pets, I'd like them in some dark green or grey camo, evil looking gas masks, better helmets (seriously, no cool army uses metal helmets anymore, and I've robbed enough banks to buy my troops better stuff) and the like. It would look very fly. Really, there is no need in my mind to change the skeleton or the frame if you will. I just want to change the outfits they are wearing to fit the rest of the theme. And no randomly generated appearance business anymore, each guy has a specific name -- he's a specific guy -- so he shouldn't appear as a random guy.
Yes, this topic comes up a lot, thats because people who like MM's want it a lot. The big argument I always heard against it was we needed power customization first. Ok, well, there it is. We are not in this patch (which was annoying) but time constrains and such, alright. Well, power customization is here so lets finally get our pet customization which we've been asking for since we first got MM's.
I have to say it, if they ever get around to giving mastermind players the ability to change the look of their pets, I may never use the original costume I made for (The Unholy) Rot That Walks. I would constantly keep her in the costume that looks the most like Zoey from Left 4 Dead and have her undead summoning powers call forth Louis, Bill, and Francis as zombies dressed to resemble those characters as well, since they are already named as such.
Not sure what I'd be able to do for the Grave Knights named Smoker and Boomer....or the Lich, but the main joke would be there.
Can too have undead robots, just don't buy undercoating or rustproofing when your at the dealership.
Full customisation may be impossiblish, how about a few pre-set variations instead?
If the good guy gets the girl, it's rated PG;
If the bad guy gets the girl, it's rated R;
And if everybody gets the girl, it's rated X
- Kirk Douglas
What if they simply allowed us to swap out the models with other, similar models?
For example, I might be allowed to replace the Mercs with Arachnos Wolf Spiders, or 5th Columnists or something.
They're already making it possible to swap animations on some power sets. I don't see this being all that different.
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
What if they simply allowed us to swap out the models with other, similar models?
For example, I might be allowed to replace the Mercs with Arachnos Wolf Spiders, or 5th Columnists or something. They're already making it possible to swap animations on some power sets. I don't see this being all that different. |
This is similar to what I was thinking. For each MM primary, there is at least one group that fits their style.
Bots - Malta
Ninjas- Tsoo
Mercs - 5th Column
Thugs - Family
Necromancy - (The name eludes me but) The undead in Dark Astoria.
As for the upcoming demons, CoT has more than enough demon models for it.
And of course this was just a list of examples. I'm not sure how much work it would take to implement something like this, but it would be a decent start for MMs and customization.
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Right. The actual powers and abilities wouldn't be the same as the groups in question, bu they would LOOK different.
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Originally Posted by Cawshun
This is similar to what I was thinking. For each MM primary, there is at least one group that fits their style.
Bots - Malta Ninjas- Tsoo Mercs - 5th Column Thugs - Family Necromancy - (The name eludes me but) The undead in Dark Astoria. As for the upcoming demons, CoT has more than enough demon models for it. And of course this was just a list of examples. I'm not sure how much work it would take to implement something like this, but it would be a decent start for MMs and customization. |
We cant have customizable pets, i wouldnt be able to make anything else then masterminds 
You mean Banished Pantheon?
I like the idea of swapping out for existing factions, would seem less cookie cutter than it is now.
If the good guy gets the girl, it's rated PG;
If the bad guy gets the girl, it's rated R;
And if everybody gets the girl, it's rated X
- Kirk Douglas
Probably been mentioned before, but Clowns and Carnies for pets. Mmmmmm.
Wonder if there'll be a way to play an NPC mob like in hazard zones or something. Be a freak in TV.
EverQuest toyed with the idea of letting people choose to play a level 1-4 yard trash monster roaming newbie areas. I think it got rolled out briefly, but then it disappeared for some reason.
Never did figure out why.
I'm still waiting for a "wild" server where stuff like this is available with live, or at least more viciouis invasions, which are not killed off by guards or BM aura. Throw monkey wrenches into the daily lives of people going to grind in AE by invading the AE area and "taking it" until kicked out.
My bet is such a server would be overflowing with players, rather than people avoiding them.
"Hey! You knocked generic cola all over your precious D20 books!"
ED: Now I know how Nancy Kerrigan felt: "Why...?!? Why...?!?"
I love playing bot MM's. I hate the way the bots look. Pet customization would interest more people in the MM AT. I'm all for it. It doesn't have to be done right away, but as long as this gets accomplished while I'm still playing (hopefully fairly soon) I'll be happy.
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While I certainly understand some of the reasons posted for this not coming to fruition, that doesn't stop me from wanting this either. In fact, I'll stack a nice HUGE vote, parallel to yours, in the Suggestions Pile that maybe the devs could implement someday.|
Originally Posted by GUGuardianEX
I don't know who else would, but I put in a HUGE vote for the ability to customize the appearance of our pets. Make each pet cost a token if you must, but let us do it PLEASE!
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd LOVE to be able to customize my pets. Most of my MMs are concept and I have my pets doing all sorts of thing, each with its own identity. Maybe I put too much into this, but I KNOW I'm not the only one. So, I request and put in a HUGE vote for customizing (even if only partially) our mastermind pets. |
Being able to customize the appearances, utilizing existing textures, would be wonderful. Imagine how much more this would add to a game system that already boasts the most customizable character creator out there?
Thanks for posting this.
I'd like to see some reason why this cannot happen. The 'reskinning requires reanimation' argument just sounds like nonsense, if it's true I'd like a link to a dev post confirming it; were that argument actually valid then every single possible combination of player hero/villain cosmetic and powerset would represent a new animation set under the same logic.
I can see that perhaps the game is currently treating pets not as an entity but as a power and that there'd be some fiddling around to be done if the pets are going to have any kind of persistent cosmetic look like players have because, in their current state, they only exist in the game for as long as they're active. However, even this argument seems flawed because the naming system for pets doesn't reset every time I recast my pets.
I've done a bit of sleuthing and I can't find any dev post discussing the problems with customizable pets. Admittedly my search-fu is hella poor, but I'd really appreciate a link.
I am opposed to offering full customization of pets. I think that pets should look like what they are supposed to look like. Giving full customization, in my mind, would be like allowing a Fire Blaster to make his fire look like a bow and arrow. A thug is a thug is a thug, and so it goes for zombies and such.
Now, PARTIAL customization I am all about, because the designs would be predetermined, or part of a selection set. Just giving us the ability to set a given pet to always spawn as a given model would be cool. I could make my "twin" Enforcers always look the same.
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I disagree with you. By the same logic we shouldn't have full customizability for our own characters since it makes no sense for certain powers to be wielded by a certain hero/villain in your subjective opinion e.g. if an Ice/Ice dom was dressed as a fire wielder with the fire design all over him/her.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
I am opposed to offering full customization of pets. I think that pets should look like what they are supposed to look like. Giving full customization, in my mind, would be like allowing a Fire Blaster to make his fire look like a bow and arrow. A thug is a thug is a thug, and so it goes for zombies and such.
Now, PARTIAL customization I am all about, because the designs would be predetermined, or part of a selection set. Just giving us the ability to set a given pet to always spawn as a given model would be cool. I could make my "twin" Enforcers always look the same. |
Furthermore, part of the greatness of CoX is the inventiveness of some of the player base. Sure there's some people who just hit random or go with a preset, but there's others who create some really cool and unique stuff and I don't see why it should be any different with pets.
Lastly, it is not the case that 'a thug is a thug is a thug'. There are many, many different criminal organisations in the real world and the thugs set really only caters to an unorganized rabble. For instance, I cannot make a mafia themed mastermind because the thugs just don't look anything like Sicilian mafioso.
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The closest I can find, are comments made in reference to Granite Armor: Here and Here. What, you may ask, does Granite Armor have to do with Mastermind Pets? Well, as you know, the Mastermind pets are pre-defined NPCs, in fact each pet is actually several NPC (one regular, one with Tier 1 upgrade, one with Tier 2 upgrade, and one with both Tier 1 and Tier 2)... each of these is called by the game when appropriate (which is probably the problem with MM pets "losing" upgrades when they zone, or appearing as just unowned NPCs ).|
Originally Posted by Atonement_EU
I'd like to see some reason why this cannot happen. The 'reskinning requires reanimation' argument just sounds like nonsense, if it's true I'd like a link to a dev post confirming it; were that argument actually valid then every single possible combination of player hero/villain cosmetic and powerset would represent a new animation set under the same logic.
I can see that perhaps the game is currently treating pets not as an entity but as a power and that there'd be some fiddling around to be done if the pets are going to have any kind of persistent cosmetic look like players have because, in their current state, they only exist in the game for as long as they're active. However, even this argument seems flawed because the naming system for pets doesn't reset every time I recast my pets. I've done a bit of sleuthing and I can't find any dev post discussing the problems with customizable pets. Admittedly my search-fu is hella poor, but I'd really appreciate a link. |
So, the relation here, is that the game would have to somehow be able to call a dynamic model each time a Matermind Pet power was used (or a MM pet zoned)... and as stated in BAB's post re: Granite, that is simply not supported. The game calls a given NPC and only that NPC. How hard that is to change, I have no idea, but that is how it works at present. Sorry that I couldn't find anything better than that, and I will try to locate a dev post describing how a mastermind pet is called, so that that too, has an official source.
Edit: I looked and looked and simply could NOT find the comment I remember describing MM Pets as NPCs... grrr.
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That doesn't follow... and isn't what I said. Fire is fire. Ice is ice. A character can do whatever it wants. And that is my subjective opinion. Besides, since when does clothing, in this game, impact powers?|
Originally Posted by Atonement_EU
I disagree with you. By the same logic we shouldn't have full customizability for our own characters since it makes no sense for certain powers to be wielded by a certain hero/villain in your subjective opinion e.g. if an Ice/Ice dom was dressed as a fire wielder with the fire design all over him/her.
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What I did say, and what I do mean, is that possessing the Thugs set, for example, should not allow you to create Robots or Zombies or Bunnies (actual bunnies)... because those things are not Thugs. A character can do whatever he wants with his character and his concept, but a thing is a thing is a thing. A rock does not get called a telephone, because, well, it's a ROCK!
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| Furthermore, part of the greatness of CoX is the inventiveness of some of the player base. Sure there's some people who just hit random or go with a preset, but there's others who create some really cool and unique stuff and I don't see why it should be any different with pets. |
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| Lastly, it is not the case that 'a thug is a thug is a thug'. There are many, many different criminal organisations in the real world and the thugs set really only caters to an unorganized rabble. For instance, I cannot make a mafia themed mastermind because the thugs just don't look anything like Sicilian mafioso. |
However.....
There is one alternative that I WOULD support. Getting rid of ALL of the Mastermind pets, and simply having a Primary called "Pets" and the whole thing is customizable... what the upgrades are, what the Level 18 power is and how the Pets look... all the way down to name, if you want. That way, the player is in charge of what the concept is. Forcing a concept onto something that isn't that thing, is wrong to me.
(And of course there would be Ninja, Robot, Thugs, etc. themes that would give that set the exact look of one of the existing sets, for the purists out there...)
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That's good enough, it's a shame, but it's pretty much what I expected. I guess it handles naming outside the power on some form of higher level.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
The closest I can find, are comments made in reference to Granite Armor: Here and Here. What, you may ask, does Granite Armor have to do with Mastermind Pets? Well, as you know, the Mastermind pets are pre-defined NPCs, in fact each pet is actually several NPC (one regular, one with Tier 1 upgrade, one with Tier 2 upgrade, and one with both Tier 1 and Tier 2)... each of these is called by the game when appropriate (which is probably the problem with MM pets "losing" upgrades when they zone, or appearing as just unowned NPCs ).
So, the relation here, is that the game would have to somehow be able to call a dynamic model each time a Matermind Pet power was used (or a MM pet zoned)... and as stated in BAB's post re: Granite, that is simply not supported. The game calls a given NPC and only that NPC. How hard that is to change, I have no idea, but that is how it works at present. Sorry that I couldn't find anything better than that, and I will try to locate a dev post describing how a mastermind pet is called, so that that too, has an official source. Edit: I looked and looked and simply could NOT find the comment I remember describing MM Pets as NPCs... grrr. |
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
That doesn't follow... and isn't what I said. Fire is fire. Ice is ice. A character can do whatever it wants. And that is my subjective opinion. Besides, since when does clothing, in this game, impact powers?
What I did say, and what I do mean, is that possessing the Thugs set, for example, should not allow you to create Robots or Zombies or Bunnies (actual bunnies)... because those things are not Thugs. A character can do whatever he wants with his character and his concept, but a thing is a thing is a thing. A rock does not get called a telephone, because, well, it's a ROCK! |
Furthermore, I don't see what relevance the appearance of an entity has to its actuality: If I had a rock in real life and I perfectly 'dressed' it as a telephone so as to make it indistinguishable from a telephone and then named it 'telephone', this doesn't make it a telephone and bears no relation to its true being, but no contradiction appears; it hasn't actually become a telephone, it's not doing anything that a telephone does, it's just become a telephone's likeness.
By the same token, were I to dress my thug as a bunny rabbit and call him 'Bunny Rabbit', no conceptual paradox follows; he's not actually a bunny rabbit, he's a renamed thug dressed as a bunny rabbit. Even within the logic of the City of Villains universe all I, as the mastermind, have done is instructed him to dress a certain way and started calling him by a different name. Sure, on the surface it makes little since, but we've got a bunch of very creative people out there and I'm sure any number of our ardent roleplayers could easily come up with a back-story for this scenario.
If I'm still missing your point then let me know.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
However.....
There is one alternative that I WOULD support. Getting rid of ALL of the Mastermind pets, and simply having a Primary called "Pets" and the whole thing is customizable... what the upgrades are, what the Level 18 power is and how the Pets look... all the way down to name, if you want. That way, the player is in charge of what the concept is. Forcing a concept onto something that isn't that thing, is wrong to me. (And of course there would be Ninja, Robot, Thugs, etc. themes that would give that set the exact look of one of the existing sets, for the purists out there...) |
I guess we could have it so that a certain number of attacks are chosen for the pets i.e. we could pick if our pet got Dual Wield or Divine Avalanche etc, but this re-opens your theme continuity problem; a pet with both Dual Wield pistols and a Divine Avalanche katana is just odd. Not to mention that, if our presumptions about how pets' animations work are correct, this would require a brand new NPC for every possible combination which would become exponentially unmanageable.
No that is my point entirely. Although... why would you go through the trouble of making a rock become "indistinguishable" from a telephone, but by you own admission, actually have done nothing at all (because it is still a rock)?
And I am glad you brought up concept. Because, if your PC was Bugs and you chose Thugs... then a cadre of rabbits would make sense. My objection with customization does not lie with those folks, but with the ones you mentioned earlier "who just hit random" and are okay with that. If a player has a concept, then I am fine... but it must be there. Hence, why I oppose a change within the current framework. Because a Thug, by definition, is not a rabbit, nor is a robot a zombie, etc.
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Ahh, but that is where you are wrong (I think). If the power were BUILT differently, then it wouldn't need to call a static NPC, it would be able to call the dynamicly created, player designed character (standard code rant applies, but this conclusion is drawn based on the fact that BAB commented that before Power Customization was implimented, it would technically be possible to make all new powers customizable, it's just that old powers were not built with that in mind and were coded as such... I posit that MM Henchmen could work the same way... as would a newly built version of Granite).
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Originally Posted by Atonement_EU
I guess we could have it so that a certain number of attacks are chosen for the pets i.e. we could pick if our pet got Dual Wield or Divine Avalanche etc, but this re-opens your theme continuity problem; a pet with both Dual Wield pistols and a Divine Avalanche katana is just odd. Not to mention that, if our presumptions about how pets' animations work are correct, this would require a brand new NPC for every possible combination which would become exponentially unmanageable.
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Yes yes, this old thread.
I can't really say this enough, all the MM's want customizable minions. Its difficult to make a thematic character without it. So, there ya go. Everyone wants it. Who cares if its a lot of work, do it anyway 
Honestly, you minions can zone with you now, they said that was impossible before too. Its a bit buggy, mind you, but it works when it has too. No reason to change the model skeletons really. Just changing the skins would be a huge improvement.
Technical arguments are going to be irrelevant because 1) You don't know how the code works unless your secretly a dev and 2) code can be changed and hacked to work however it has to. Its just effort.
Hook us up in i18 or something
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Originally Posted by Lewisite
I can't really say this enough, all the MM's want customizable minions.
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Obviously you didn't read the whole thread...
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Yep, I agree with this. Wouldn't mind being able to pick different "flavours" for the pets, so Vash style zombies or ones like the Zombie Apoc lieuts, varying types of Gang members for Thugs or different looks for Robots but I'd be against making the pets what they aren't suppose to be.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
I am opposed to offering full customization of pets. I think that pets should look like what they are supposed to look like. Giving full customization, in my mind, would be like allowing a Fire Blaster to make his fire look like a bow and arrow. A thug is a thug is a thug, and so it goes for zombies and such.
Now, PARTIAL customization I am all about, because the designs would be predetermined, or part of a selection set. Just giving us the ability to set a given pet to always spawn as a given model would be cool. I could make my "twin" Enforcers always look the same. |
I'd just be happy if they let us recolour the current models. The real kicker is that you can already recolour them in the AE editor.
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Submit your MA arc for review & my arcs thread
I would like if there were just a number of motiffs that you could pick from for each MM set, just like how you customize weapons by choosing a weapon off of a list. The devs should hold a contest. That would be awesome. Maybe an AE where you design custom critters to correspond with each power?
Some motiffs I'd really like to see:
Thugs:
Family - (Mobsters in suits)
Biker Chicks - (Something about tough women in black leather....)
Clowns - (Just seems so appropriate)
Bankers - (Cause they're the real criminals)
Zombies:
Ghost Pirates - (Who say "yar" all the time.)
Vahzilok-ish Creatures - (Maybe with their brains exposed in glass.)
Vampires - (Or other "sophisticated" undead)
Ninjas:
Yakuza - (With tatooes and stuff, like the Tsoo)
Wannabees - (Inner city kids in Karate outfits)
Japanese Mythology - (Tengu Goblins, ... stuff like that...)
Mercenaries:
Uniformed Henchmen - (Like in tights - it would be great)
Terrorists -
"Storm Troopers" - (Like in Storm Trooper-esq body armor)
If I had half a chance, I'd do the art myself just to have it in the game, and I bet a lot of other people feel the same way. Which is why it would be rad to have a contest or something.
i would love for there to just be a "custom minion" powerset that would allow you to pick a Ranged powerset and either pick an existing minion type or make your own and pick those minions powersets