[ QUOTE ]
Everyone talks about Heat Loss as some amazing debuff (okay, it is). Please also remember that it essentially gives you and most of your team infinite end. 90 sec up, around 30 sec down, it's as good or better than RA and recharges way faster (360 base vs 500). Granted, it's easier to say "Gather for RA" than explain to your team how HL works and where they should position themselves...
[/ QUOTE ]
no one who has played a cold uses Heat Loss for it's debuff effects, it's all about the +recov/+end. This is why I scoff at any comment made by people who try and use it as a 2nd -Res aoe, it's never going to be practical for such a purpose unless they drastically change the recharge. Which they'll never do because the buff portion is too damn good.
[ QUOTE ]
Which they'll never do because the buff portion is too damn good.
[/ QUOTE ]
Does Heat Loss buff anything besides recovery? Because if all we're talking about is infinite endurance for the entire team, Kinetics already provides that with Transference (and to a lesser extent with Speed Boost). If infinite endurance is too good, Transference needs to be nerfed a whole lot.
Personally, I figure they don't think infinite endurance is too good, so I think they should bring the recharge down by a minute or so. Either that or make it like Fulcrum Shift with regard to recharge and duration, but lower the target cap.
Bye, everybody!
*Champion*
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but detention field is a bad power no matter how you use it since burning the mob down immediately or ignoring it in Nemesis Lt. case, is always going to be a better, faster, and safer option and it doesn't require any power choice or slots to make it work. As for keeping stuff away from towers and the reactor, AoE damage and -Res debuffs do that job perfectly fine and more efficiently.
[/ QUOTE ]
For such a "bad" power, it's funny how I've never gotten a complaint about its use on multiple STF/ITF & other TF runs. It may be a very situational power, but that does not make it "bad".
It seems overly obvious to me, in every one of these threads that comes up, that you have a chip on your shoulder about FF. Seems to me, the best argument that FF is a perfectly good set, is how vehemently defensive you get when it is compared to Cold.
Fact is, they are two different sets, with different purposes. FF will always be the "King of mitigation", and Cold has mediocre defense, with some nice debuffs.
Trying to "prove" one is better than the other just smacks of kindergarten playground pettiness.
[ QUOTE ]
Fact is, they are two different sets, with different purposes. FF will always be the "King of mitigation", and Cold has mediocre defense, with some nice debuffs.
Trying to "prove" one is better than the other just smacks of kindergarten playground pettiness.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mediocre defense? Ice Shields and FF bubbles provide the EXACT same defense, the only difference lies in Fog and dispersion which is only 7-8%. However Cold brings also brings a lot of Fire/Cold/Energy/Slow resistance, tons of -recharge/-spd, capped +recovery, and an auto-hit rain power that does knockdown, -Res, -Def, and Slows and can double stack on top of itself fairly easily. That's not even mentioning the usefulness of the -Special and -dmg in Benumb on hard targets.
Let's put it this way, there is only one power I would consider skippable on team build for Cold dom and that's Frostwork. FF has 4 totally skippable powers in Detention Field, Repulsion Field, PFF, and Force bubble, none of those being REGULARLY useful like 8/9 of Cold powers are.
As I said, it's to each person's taste what they like and what they dislike. In my opinion, the only difference between the two is Cold focuses on debuffing while FF offers crowd control. That's about it. It's up to play style and what the person wants out of the set to be able to say which they want. That said, all powersets in my opinion are this way. I personally love Storm, but enjoy several of the different power sets of both primary and secondary. I've even played multiple of power sets combined with different secondaries. Storm/Dark plays different from Storm/Sonic which plays differently from my Fire/Storm Corruptor, and so on. It allows me to play the same general feel, with very different ways of going about things.
That's the good point of City of Heroes, there's not really a set that is better than the other. They play differently from each other. Sure, Thermal and Empathy and Pain Domination look very similar to each other at face value, but they are quite different. Force Fields is different from Cold, which is different from Sonic. Sure, there's similarities, but they each play differently, and when paired with various secondaries, continue to alter what they are good at.
A Cold Dom/Psi Blast Defender is going to shoot for capitalizing on the -recharge, which a Cold Dom/Dark Defender is capitalizing on the opponent's chance to miss by upping the team's defense and lowering the enemy's accuracy. A FF/Dark has the same ideology of what to capitalize on, however, they will move into controlling the battlefield versus debuffing the enemies. It's all different play styles and everyone is not only jaded by their preferences, but also by the power set combination they make. A FF/Archery Defender is going to have a drastic different ideology from a FF/Sonic and so forth.
If the question is which on is straight up better, they've been balanced. If one doesn't believe they are so, take it up with the devs. Some will shine greater solo or small teams while others will be greater for eight man invincible. Personal play style and play capabilities go a long way. I've got my Emp/Psi defender, who's been complimented several times over various things, but always when compared to my Storm/Dark, everyone who's seen both believes I do better with my Storm/Dark. I enjoy playing him more than my Empath, but that's my personal tastes. If I want to buff and heal with some crowd control to help myself out, I go with my Empath. If I want to debuff and cause organized chaos, I chose my Storm/Dark.
People's views are also jaded by others who've seen others play the set. However, since this is a defender forum, my guess is pretty much everyone here is a defender player. Sure, some people are just naturally bad or dislike a power set and thus don't shine with it in comparison to the rest. Each one offers their own pros and cons, it's up to the individual to chose which they believe is better, not arguing over technicalities of the power sets to see which one may or may not be a bit better mechanically.
If you're playing any game, imo, and only going for the numbers, you're doing something wrong. Play the game for fun, that's what it's there for and play the power sets you enjoy.
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
[ QUOTE ]
As I said, it's to each person's taste what they like and what they dislike. In my opinion, the only difference between the two is Cold focuses on debuffing while FF offers crowd control.
[/ QUOTE ]
Really, FF doesn't offer CC any more than Cold does, which is to say a small amount. KB, repelling, locking out works about as well as slows, knockdowns and end drain for most practical purposes, and neither set are going to send controllers to the unemployment line any time soon, excepting that w/the added defense both provide, you might not need any real CC.
FF offers more concentrated buffs. Cold offers more variety of buffs and debuffs. Neither are "controlling" sets any more than any other AT in the game (my blasters control by killing too).
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
[ QUOTE ]
If you're playing any game, imo, and only going for the numbers, you're doing something wrong. Play the game for fun, that's what it's there for and play the power sets you enjoy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry but the numbers matter a lot. There are reasons why you almost never saw Ice Armor tanks until its mechanics were fixed, same goes for Trick Arrow and Dark Miasma.
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but detention field is a bad power no matter how you use it since burning the mob down immediately or ignoring it in Nemesis Lt. case, is always going to be a better, faster, and safer option and it doesn't require any power choice or slots to make it work. As for keeping stuff away from towers and the reactor, AoE damage and -Res debuffs do that job perfectly fine and more efficiently.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol. You can't even comprehend why the power is used on the Towers.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which they'll never do because the buff portion is too damn good.
[/ QUOTE ]
Does Heat Loss buff anything besides recovery? Because if all we're talking about is infinite endurance for the entire team, Kinetics already provides that with Transference (and to a lesser extent with Speed Boost). If infinite endurance is too good, Transference needs to be nerfed a whole lot.
Personally, I figure they don't think infinite endurance is too good, so I think they should bring the recharge down by a minute or so. Either that or make it like Fulcrum Shift with regard to recharge and duration, but lower the target cap.
[/ QUOTE ]For me the turn off to this set was 2 things. One is the lack of self protection powers (sorry but arctic fog doesnt cut it against smashing lethal damage) and the stupidly long recharge on the really good powers. To me there is no reason why heat loss, benumb, heat exauhation, and melt armor need to have those stupidly long recharge. To me it seems like they did it because they were afraid it would pwn too much in pvp or something. The single target debuffs should recharge fast enough so that they are perma on at least 2 targets before slotting recharge. And the aoe debuffs should be on par with fulcrum shift. I agree with you on that infinite endurance shouldnt be an issue at all since kins already do this. I dont see it making us do uber damage even if you put both debuffs on when kins are still going to make the teams do more damage
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you're playing any game, imo, and only going for the numbers, you're doing something wrong. Play the game for fun, that's what it's there for and play the power sets you enjoy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry but the numbers matter a lot. There are reasons why you almost never saw Ice Armor tanks until its mechanics were fixed, same goes for Trick Arrow and Dark Miasma.
[/ QUOTE ]
To you maybe. I could care less about numbers, now I don't even bother with Set IO's and use just commons and SO's.
I play what looks fun, regardless of how powerful or weak it maybe. This game is just not that hard that numbers really matter once a team of 8 is just rolling over everything.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but detention field is a bad power no matter how you use it since burning the mob down immediately or ignoring it in Nemesis Lt. case, is always going to be a better, faster, and safer option and it doesn't require any power choice or slots to make it work. As for keeping stuff away from towers and the reactor, AoE damage and -Res debuffs do that job perfectly fine and more efficiently.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol. You can't even comprehend why the power is used on the Towers.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know exactly why they use it on the towers (Negates the buff) but it doesn't change the fact that the power is utterly useless for the other 99.99% of the game. Can you really say the same thing about Benumb, Infrigidate, Sleet, Heat Loss, and Snow Storm?
[ QUOTE ]
For me the turn off to this set was 2 things. One is the lack of self protection powers (sorry but arctic fog doesnt cut it against smashing lethal damage)
[/ QUOTE ]
Arctic Fog (and Steamy Mist) helps you hit def cap fairly... well, not easily, but easier than w/o, so that takes care of your S/L damage just fine. 
My Cold defender's up to around 40% ranged & 36% AoE def, and not quite done. He really doesn't get hit much any more, if at all.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you're playing any game, imo, and only going for the numbers, you're doing something wrong. Play the game for fun, that's what it's there for and play the power sets you enjoy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry but the numbers matter a lot. There are reasons why you almost never saw Ice Armor tanks until its mechanics were fixed, same goes for Trick Arrow and Dark Miasma.
[/ QUOTE ]
I find it funny that you lack to quote this from my same post.
[ QUOTE ]
If the question is which on is straight up better, they've been balanced. If one doesn't believe they are so, take it up with the devs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because your tastes and thought process is different from people who like or enjoy what powers Force Fields have to offer, doesn't mean it's not balanced. If Cold Domination is just that much more powerful than Force Fields, you should be a person behind the cause of buffing Force Fields.
Regardless of numbers, I enjoy playing both my Cold Dominator and Force Field characters. Have I ever felt nerfed for playing one over the other? No. The numbers might mean a lot to you, but there's a group out there that does. There's also a group that only cares about numbers and trying to squeeze every tiny drop out of everything, even if it's only a bit of numbers. I pay attention to numbers only to figure out exactly what the power does, not comparing it to others of other sets. The last time I thought about doing that, I was very disappointed with Sleet, even though I still didn't look at the numbers.
Anything that is obvious in the lack of effectiveness should be taken up with devs. If you believe Cold Domination is really *that* much more powerful, outside of play styles, then get the devs involved. I'm not exactly happy with the PFF turning off when you click a glowie, that's about it for mechanically speaking what I dislike about FFs. I'd still say it's comparable to all the other power sets and don't particularly want a change.
If you have problems with the powers themselves, then the power isn't for you. Every power has its use, but it's not always the most useful for every situation. Its up to the player to decide how much they want to use it and how. Repulsion Field plus Force Bubble will be able to help score away enemies in pvp, especially stalkers. Detention field can hold enemies in pvp that would otherwise 2-3 shot you or bosses that easily mez you. Just because you believe a power is useless and the numbers seem like it, doesn't mean it actually is.
As I said, they are balanced. The only thing that changes is play style and the like. I don't believe the numbers speak to being one powerset better than the other. Rather, I believe it to be speaking to that powers of different power sets are different. Sleet isn't Freezing Rain, Heal Other isn't Cauterize, and the shields buff differently. I see no reason to poke the devs that Force Fields is being outshined by Cold Domination or the like. You're welcome to believe differently than me, but when the question of Cold or FF, they are equal but different. I don't want the lines between all the power sets to blur. Not every power set need a heal, every power set doesn't need a target area AoE -res, and not every set need a shield. Equal but different.
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
No point in arguing over this with someone that thinks that Sleet and Freezing Rain are different when they 100% identical in all aspects except their name.
[ QUOTE ]
I know exactly why they use it on the towers (Negates the buff) but it doesn't change the fact that the power is utterly useless for the other 99.99% of the game. Can you really say the same thing about Benumb, Infrigidate, Sleet, Heat Loss, and Snow Storm?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not particularly interested in your silly game but I'll play along. It amuses me. [Warning: Not for those with the inability to logically disassemble another person's point, particularly when the author of said point is simply satirizing one fanatic's nature by introducing another fanatical argument.]
Snow Storm:
On a fast team, toggle debuffs are meaningless as everything is dead by the time the power finishes animating. Against AVs, meaninglessly small debuff. So I guess it helps subpar teams? The power isn't useless, just not as useful in some situations.
Heat Loss:
Every been on a team with a particular vicious Brute? How about one with every base covered and no weaknesses? Yeah. They actually make using Fulcrum Shift hard because they kill everything but Bosses in their first two hits...and the Bosses are gone in follow-up. Without the FS buffs. Heat Loss has the exact same mechanic in play. The power isn't always necessary but it's very nice to have.
Benumb:
-Regen is largely meaningless in any setting. Particularly when it's ST and on a long timer. If your team needs the -Regen, it's either poor in general or playing beyond its means. Unless you're fighting a long-duration target, Benumb's other debuffs are extremely pointless except for particularly fragile meatshield situations as nothing else hits hard enough to justify the power's long recharge. On top of that, most enemies that would justify the power's use tend to resist the same damage they deal, reducing its strength just by association, ignoring what purple patch AND resistance does to it. The power isn't useless but it can help provide that extra edge when it's needed.
Infrigidate:
-DEF is pointless past the early levels. Even then, it's questionable through proper slotting (doesn't mean IOs, just knowing what to slot and how to slot it in which powers) and Beginner's Luck effects. Fire damage is surprisingly uncommon. The same ST debuff problems from Benumb persist with Infrigidate where the debuffs are not really an efficient use of endurance because of their miniscule effect. Better when your team is low in level and questionable efficiency as the team gets higher in level. It's an okay power, it just happens to not age very well for a Tier 1.
Sleet:
Again we come back to the "fast team". It unleashes some potent debuffing for 30 seconds. But what's the point when the team is already gone and done with the spawn? Unless your team is inherently on the weaker end, the debuff isn't applying to enough of the spawns, enough of the time, that are being attacked to justify waiting for it. Great power but when your team hits the critical mass point, it's just not fast enough or passive enough to justify while you're rolling along.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know exactly why they use it on the towers (Negates the buff) but it doesn't change the fact that the power is utterly useless for the other 99.99% of the game. Can you really say the same thing about Benumb, Infrigidate, Sleet, Heat Loss, and Snow Storm?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not particularly interested in your silly game but I'll play along. It amuses me. [Warning: Not for those with the inability to logically disassemble another person's point, particularly when the author of said point is simply satirizing one fanatic's nature by introducing another fanatical argument.]
Snow Storm:
On a fast team, toggle debuffs are meaningless as everything is dead by the time the power finishes animating. Against AVs, meaninglessly small debuff. So I guess it helps subpar teams? The power isn't useless, just not as useful in some situations.
Heat Loss:
Every been on a team with a particular vicious Brute? How about one with every base covered and no weaknesses? Yeah. They actually make using Fulcrum Shift hard because they kill everything but Bosses in their first two hits...and the Bosses are gone in follow-up. Without the FS buffs. Heat Loss has the exact same mechanic in play. The power isn't always necessary but it's very nice to have.
Benumb:
-Regen is largely meaningless in any setting. Particularly when it's ST and on a long timer. If your team needs the -Regen, it's either poor in general or playing beyond its means. Unless you're fighting a long-duration target, Benumb's other debuffs are extremely pointless except for particularly fragile meatshield situations as nothing else hits hard enough to justify the power's long recharge. On top of that, most enemies that would justify the power's use tend to resist the same damage they deal, reducing its strength just by association, ignoring what purple patch AND resistance does to it. The power isn't useless but it can help provide that extra edge when it's needed.
Infrigidate:
-DEF is pointless past the early levels. Even then, it's questionable through proper slotting (doesn't mean IOs, just knowing what to slot and how to slot it in which powers) and Beginner's Luck effects. Fire damage is surprisingly uncommon. The same ST debuff problems from Benumb persist with Infrigidate where the debuffs are not really an efficient use of endurance because of their miniscule effect. Better when your team is low in level and questionable efficiency as the team gets higher in level. It's an okay power, it just happens to not age very well for a Tier 1.
Sleet:
Again we come back to the "fast team". It unleashes some potent debuffing for 30 seconds. But what's the point when the team is already gone and done with the spawn? Unless your team is inherently on the weaker end, the debuff isn't applying to enough of the spawns, enough of the time, that are being attacked to justify waiting for it. Great power but when your team hits the critical mass point, it's just not fast enough or passive enough to justify while you're rolling along.
[/ QUOTE ]Castle should see this so maybe he can finally buff the set by lowering the recharge of the powers.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
No point in arguing over this with someone that thinks that Sleet and Freezing Rain are different when they 100% identical in all aspects except their name.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defender- Storm Summoning (Given numbers)
Activation: 2.3 seconds
Recharge: 1 minute
Endurance Cost: 18.20
Accuracy: 2.0x
Range: 60 ft.
-70% Run Speed for 45 seconds
-50% Recharge for 45 seconds
-2.5 max run speed for 45 seconds
-60% fly speed for 45 seconds
-70% Jump strength for 45 seconds
-70% Jump speed for 45 seconds
-30% run speed for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
-30% strength to recharge for 30 seconds on target after 30 second delay
-30% strength of jump for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
76 ticks of .06 damage over 15 seconds
-35% resistance to all damage for 45 seconds
-30% defense for 30 seconds
5% chance of .5 mag KB for 15 sec.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defender- Storm Summoning (Given numbers @ level 1)
Activation: 2.3 seconds
Recharge: 1 minute
Endurance Cost: 18.20
Accuracy: 2.0x
Range: 60 ft.
-70% Run Speed for 45 seconds
-50% Recharge for 45 seconds
-2.5 max run speed for 45 seconds
-60% fly speed for 45 seconds
-70% Jump strength for 45 seconds
-70% Jump speed for 45 seconds
-30% run speed for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
-30% strength of jump for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
76 ticks of .06 damage over 15 seconds
-35% resistance to all damage for 45 seconds
-30% defense for 30 seconds
5% chance of .5 mag KB for 15 sec.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defender- Cold Domination (Given numbers @ level 1)
Activation: 2.3 seconds
Recharge: 1 minute
Endurance Cost: 18.20
Accuracy: 2.0x
Range: 60 ft.
-50% Run Speed for 45 seconds
-40% Recharge for 45 seconds
-2.5 max run speed for 45 seconds
-40% fly speed for 45 seconds
-50% Jump strength for 45 seconds
-50% Jump speed for 45 seconds
-20% run speed for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
-20% strength of recharge for 30 seconds on target after 30 second delay
-20% jump speed for 30 seconds on target after 30 second delay
-20% strength of jump for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
76 ticks of .06 damage over 15 seconds
-30% resistance to all damage for 45 seconds
-30% defense for 30 seconds
5% chance of .5 mag KB for 15 sec.
[/ QUOTE ]
Numbers are you own worst enemy, huh?
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
[ QUOTE ]
No point in arguing over this with someone that thinks that Sleet and Freezing Rain are different when they 100% identical in all aspects except their name.
[/ QUOTE ]
Defender Sleet is -40% rech and -30% res
Defender FR is -50% rech and -35% res
There's little point in trying to have a debate when one side is interested in winning more than facts.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know exactly why they use it on the towers (Negates the buff) but it doesn't change the fact that the power is utterly useless for the other 99.99% of the game. Can you really say the same thing about Benumb, Infrigidate, Sleet, Heat Loss, and Snow Storm?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not particularly interested in your silly game but I'll play along. It amuses me. [Warning: Not for those with the inability to logically disassemble another person's point, particularly when the author of said point is simply satirizing one fanatic's nature by introducing another fanatical argument.]
Snow Storm:
On a fast team, toggle debuffs are meaningless as everything is dead by the time the power finishes animating. Against AVs, meaninglessly small debuff. So I guess it helps subpar teams? The power isn't useless, just not as useful in some situations.
Heat Loss:
Every been on a team with a particular vicious Brute? How about one with every base covered and no weaknesses? Yeah. They actually make using Fulcrum Shift hard because they kill everything but Bosses in their first two hits...and the Bosses are gone in follow-up. Without the FS buffs. Heat Loss has the exact same mechanic in play. The power isn't always necessary but it's very nice to have.
Benumb:
-Regen is largely meaningless in any setting. Particularly when it's ST and on a long timer. If your team needs the -Regen, it's either poor in general or playing beyond its means. Unless you're fighting a long-duration target, Benumb's other debuffs are extremely pointless except for particularly fragile meatshield situations as nothing else hits hard enough to justify the power's long recharge. On top of that, most enemies that would justify the power's use tend to resist the same damage they deal, reducing its strength just by association, ignoring what purple patch AND resistance does to it. The power isn't useless but it can help provide that extra edge when it's needed.
Infrigidate:
-DEF is pointless past the early levels. Even then, it's questionable through proper slotting (doesn't mean IOs, just knowing what to slot and how to slot it in which powers) and Beginner's Luck effects. Fire damage is surprisingly uncommon. The same ST debuff problems from Benumb persist with Infrigidate where the debuffs are not really an efficient use of endurance because of their miniscule effect. Better when your team is low in level and questionable efficiency as the team gets higher in level. It's an okay power, it just happens to not age very well for a Tier 1.
Sleet:
Again we come back to the "fast team". It unleashes some potent debuffing for 30 seconds. But what's the point when the team is already gone and done with the spawn? Unless your team is inherently on the weaker end, the debuff isn't applying to enough of the spawns, enough of the time, that are being attacked to justify waiting for it. Great power but when your team hits the critical mass point, it's just not fast enough or passive enough to justify while you're rolling along.
[/ QUOTE ]
From my work with cold defenders I agree...
Benumb & Infrig are only good for hard targets in team situations. Bosses do not count as hard targets. Therefore, <1% of the game.
Snowstorm is one of my favorite lowbie powers, but it loses utility at the high end pretty quick. I still pull it out regularly, but no need for it on a good team.
Heat Loss is moderately useful. Things need to stay alive long enough for it to hit, teammates need to be close enough to get the buff, etc.
Sleet's the only ability I throw out every fight as soon as possible, as it is the only ability from the above list that really makes an impact on killing speed in any situation.
[ QUOTE ]
Sleet:
Again we come back to the "fast team". It unleashes some potent debuffing for 30 seconds. But what's the point when the team is already gone and done with the spawn?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is why you slot Sleet (or FR) to recharge in 15-20 sec.
Generally speaking, high end teams really don't need FF level bubbles either tho mez protection is welcome. Then again, I'll take Son bubs & Clarity (and Son Disp) over what FF brings for high DPS teams (also Disruption Field for the lead man (tank, scrapper, blaster, whatever)).
What are you guys arguing about again?
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
[ QUOTE ]
What are you guys arguing about again?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's something about how 2 powersets that perform different jobs...are performing different jobs, I dunno Dave
Turbo_Ski, you said this on the previous page:
[ QUOTE ]
Mediocre defense? Ice Shields and FF bubbles provide the EXACT same defense, the only difference lies in Fog and dispersion which is only 7-8%. However Cold brings also [a collection of good effects.]
[/ QUOTE ]
The other day I said "my thinking has been warped by spending so much time near the softcap." It's true. I just started trying to solo an AV on a nin/nin stalker.
The only difference between 45% and 37.5% Defense is TWO AND A HALF TIMES AS MANY HITS LANDING.
You're probably fine with 37.5% typed Defense for the entire team, and no positional. But there IS a difference.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I can't get into FF. I had one in the mid 30s that could softcap people, but it was SO boring compared to other sets. I deleted the toon in favor of others and don't regret a thing.
I could see having more fun with a bot/ff mm though.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
I can't get into FF. I had one in the mid 30s that could softcap people, but it was SO boring compared to other sets. I deleted the toon in favor of others and don't regret a thing.
I could see having more fun with a bot/ff mm though.
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More fun with a bot/ff MM? I consider MMs to be tops for more boring AT personally, I feel like I'm not doing anything at all.
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Not true. A number of custom critters have access to Build-Up, Aim, Targeting Drone, and other methods of giving significant to-hit buffs. Some also mad significant defense debuffs that can't be avoided, like Radiation toggles. In normal foes, you have a few mobs with higher to-hit values (such as Vanguard), loads of defense debuffs that can cascade that soft-capped defense (almost every enemy group, Romans in particular), auto-hit defense debuffs (Crey Radiologists, Scirroco, etc.), massive to-hit buffs (most notably stacked Vengeance Nemesis), non-positional attacks (Mind Control), non-typed attacks (not sure any exist outside of Hami and things that are supposed to hit you anyway, like burning building explosions), and, the rarest but biggest threat, auto-hit attacks (Rommy's Pet Mire Nictus). There's other threats to high defenses too, like Streak Breaker, but I doubt I can remember them all off the top of my head. In those instances, that's where Cold throws around its slows and end drains and FF knocks enemies on their back, stuns them, and keeps them at bay. Which method is better is a subject for debate that I don't feel like getting into.
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It really sounds like you haven't played both sets at all. Cold doesn't get it's mitigation from End Draining, it gets it from the combined efforts of Slows, +Def, +Res, -Res, -Def, knockdown, and proper use of benumb's -Dmg/-Special debuff.
When faced with an exotic variety of abilities the set with the most variety in buffs/debuffs is superior. For example, -Def debuffs cascading is negated by -Recharge debuffs, same goes for enemy toHit buffs. Another example is a FF vs Cold comparison against high Defense targets, FF has absolutely nothing increase chance to Tohit, however Cold has numerous -Def debuffs.
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As for the four specifically mentioned powers I quoted, the latter four are good for herding and controlling mob positioning and useful for keeping the not-softcapped FF Defender alive. They also have other, less seen uses such as covering someone using Rest, keeping foes away from the Terra Volta Reactor Core, keeping repair men away from Lord Recluse's towers, and things of that nature. Detention Field is the trickier power to use properly, but it's great for taking out support/annoying enemies from the fight, like Sky Raider Force Field Generators, Tsoo Sorcerers, and etc. Or taking out Nemesis LTs so they don't die first and buff the entire spawn. Or for dealing with foes that like murdering defense-based protection, like that auto-hit Nictus (and stopping the healing Nictus for that matter). Whether Detention Field lasts too long or not depends on both the team and the particular fight. Though, if you're steamrolling, you're not going to need most of your powers anyway regardless of what powerset you're playing.
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Sorry but detention field is a bad power no matter how you use it since burning the mob down immediately or ignoring it in Nemesis Lt. case, is always going to be a better, faster, and safer option and it doesn't require any power choice or slots to make it work. As for keeping stuff away from towers and the reactor, AoE damage and -Res debuffs do that job perfectly fine and more efficiently.