Single Powersets?
A game with one attack would be kinda boring.
I'm not talking about one attack, LISAR (happy birthday btw) I said a single POWERSET. Much like Jubilee and Cyclops only have one power they constantly manipulate, why is it that we dont have an option to only pick one powerSET? Of course, don't ignore the previously stated reasons that I'm aware of.
[ QUOTE ]
So, I've been racking my brain over this the last couple of days or so, especially with the increased discussion of other Super hero based MMO's on the rise...
How is it that we cannot choose only one power set? I mean, for example, some heroes only have ONE power they manipulate and grow. For example, Cyclops only has his laser beam. Jubilee only has her flash bomb things, Rogue only has that power absorbtion (which yes can lead to OTHER powers, but not permanently).
I know we have the option of getting two power sets, and most people enjoy that... and I could be told to pick any secondary powerset I want and ignore the hell out of my secondary... but why should I? I was just curious on other peoples opinions on the matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
The premise is that you become better with your powers and discover new ways to use them as you gain experience.
Say you have an energy/energy blaster. The more you use your powers, the more you learn about them and develop new ways to use energy. The same with other power sets that are supposed to have synergy: elect/elect, elect/storm, etc.
Now, if you chose powers like energy/devices, you have to use your imagination to come up with a way to explain why they work together. One example is the backstory for a a kin/electric defender I have. His kin powers come from a science accident. His electric powers come from a suit that absorbs static electricity from the air and releases it upon command. His origin is basically science and technology.
Cause you would be gimping yourself.
I understand that... but then why give us the option of have a plant/ice (or fire or whatever) toon, etc. It was just something I was thinking about and wondering if there was another logical reason beyond ignoring your secondary.
And LISAR, thats what I mean. Why should we be gimped if we chose not to take a secondary or use it? There are plenty of Super heroes with one power who are not gimped... Nightcrawler and the Flash spring to mind.
[ QUOTE ]
I understand that... but then why give us the option of have a plant/ice (or fire or whatever) toon, etc. It was just something I was thinking about and wondering if there was another logical reason beyond ignoring your secondary.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought I answered that. Are you looking for an RP reason or a game design reason?
The RP reason can be whatever you like. Maybe your plant/ice character is a mutant who has the power to control plants and their genius scientist parents/sibling/spouse created an ice manipulation backpack for them to use.
The game design reason is that it's much more interesting to have two choices for powers. Mixing and matching means more variety and more fun.
Nightcrawler wouldn't do so well against someone who had a secondary (he has what...a domination attack set and TP?)
And yet Nightcrawler, Jubilee, Cyclops, Flash, etc have proven themselves time and time again capable without the use of a secondary power. Granted I could just use a secondary, ignore it, and then move on with my life, but I still dont think it answers the question as to why. Perhaps this argument is fruitless.
Even many single powerset comic characters effectively have multiple sets. In many cases they have training/talents that effectively give the equivalent of Martial Arts, Willpower or Super Reflexes or at least a powerset that combines elements of all of them.
Also, many comic characters have additional abilities that don't directly fit into the game's mechanics. For example, Cyclops has the quite literally superhuman ability to almost instantly calculate the trajectories and ricochet patterns of all projectiles, not just his eye beams. This can be useful for any sort of ranged attack or evasion.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
It's interesting that the examples listed so far are all X-Men. Marvels mutants tend to only have one powerset. Many other heroes have two. Batman is MA/devices. Captain America is MA/shield. Superman is SS/Invuln. Spiderman is MA/SR.
Of course, comic book hero MA is not the MA we have in this game, but that's another thread entirely.
That's because they are written that way.
The Flash does have a secondary in our world...Super Reflexes.
He has S.R. and uses a punchy set we lack and has SS for a travel power as well as hasten.
[ QUOTE ]
Nightcrawler wouldn't do so well against someone who had a secondary (he has what...a domination attack set and TP?)
[/ QUOTE ]
Nightcrawler had teleporting, martial arts, super reflexes, stealth, mastery of swordsmanship and other stuff i can't recall offhand. Haven't read X-Men in many years, so i have no idea what he does now.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
So if anything we need more power sets to be like comic books.
[ QUOTE ]
And yet Nightcrawler, Jubilee, Cyclops, Flash, etc have proven themselves time and time again capable without the use of a secondary power. Granted I could just use a secondary, ignore it, and then move on with my life, but I still dont think it answers the question as to why. Perhaps this argument is fruitless.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or perhaps you're more or less ignoring the answers people are giving you.
All of the characters you mention do have a single power - but manipulate them in different ways. My elec/elec blaster has effectively a single power set, and the primary way he uses that power is as blasts, the secondary way he uses that power is as control or melee.
Flash has one "powerset" - but he uses it as travel, control, melee, blasts (when he spins his arma fast and buffets evildoes with windblasts), etc.
Jubilee has one "powerset" and primarily uses it as blasts, but also uses is secondarily as control and I believe sometimes melee.
Nightcrawler - melee/super-reflexes with teleportation as an ancillary power (which he chooses to use as a primary)
The only one in your list that really has only one "powerset" is Cyclops... maybe with leadership power pool.
I think you're looking for a different answer than what is being provided, though.
Larry Jablonski
Infinity Server
Arc Name: Old Folks Home
Arc ID: 261041
Synopsis: The Octogenician can control minds, but only of people over 80. He's taken an old folks home hostage. Beat up old folks screaming about the good ol' days to defeat the Octogenician!
[ QUOTE ]
How is it that we cannot choose only one power set? I mean, for example, some heroes only have ONE power they manipulate and grow. For example, Cyclops only has his laser beam. Jubilee only has her flash bomb things, Rogue only has that power absorbtion (which yes can lead to OTHER powers, but not permanently).
[/ QUOTE ]
works in fiction, not so well in an MMO environment.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
You're not choosing very good examples here. Nightcrawler is a clear case of Martial Arts or Dual Blades (sometimes Triple Blades, if he's tail-fencing) plus Super Reflexes. It may be more about acrobatic training than mutant properties, but he's definitely pushed his evasiveness beyond any reasonable human expectation. Sprinkle liberally with the Teleport Pool, and various possibilities from Concealment, Fitness, Fighting and Leaping and you've got a complete character. If the game included screwy looking three-fingered ninja turtle hands and feet with giant heel-thumbs, he'd be a lead contender in the copyright violation lineup.
Likewise with the Flash. He's using enough different close combat tricks that it qualifies as a whole Fast Melee set, plus Super Reflexes and Super Speed. Cyclops has enough close combat training and unexpected eye-blast tricks to put together a Blaster Manipulation set, add in the entire Leadership pool, and call it done. Or even make an expanded Team Strategy support set and turn him into a Defender. Jubilee has used her powers to make energy-charged melee strikes on numerous occasions, rather than flinging the energy. Thus an Energy/Energy Blaster, and still nowhere near the list of people I'd ever want to team with.
Anyway, you can't choose just one powerset because the game isn't balanced that way, and sometimes video games have to sacrifice flexibility for balance and playability. Feel free to ignore yor primary or secondary set though, leaving the default power unslotted and removing it from your tray entirely. Plenty of Defenders do this already. They don't get invited to my teams... but they must get invited to someone's since I can't imagine them soloing with just Brawl and their Origin Temp...
@Eisenzahn
GW2 - Melchior.2135
AIM - Euroclydon23
Email - scorpany@yahoo.com or <sameasmyAIM>@aol.com (for the sheer novelty of an almost 20 year old email address that hasn't been overwhelmed by spambots yet)
[ QUOTE ]
And yet Nightcrawler, Jubilee, Cyclops, Flash, etc have proven themselves time and time again capable without the use of a secondary power. Granted I could just use a secondary, ignore it, and then move on with my life, but I still dont think it answers the question as to why. Perhaps this argument is fruitless.
[/ QUOTE ]
Comic writer: "I need to be able to do X, Y, Z."
*writes it into the story, writes around the abilities, making it a strength or weakness as needed.* - witness the "Superman's got to have a new weakness this issue - I know, plaid Kryptonite!" and the steady stream of powers that got added to him from when he was introduced ("Forget leaping, we'll just make him fly") and taken away.
MMOs are not continually guided action by action by a writing staff, or a game master. What would, frankly, gimp you in a game is workable in a comic book. Plus, really, "one power" sets? Use matching primary/secondaries to simulate it.
You want someone who has one power - but even those who have "just one" ability vary its use for the situation. In game? Let's take Energy/Energy - you use a little bit when needed (tier 1 attack,) concentrate and unleash a longer range blast (snipe,) use a wider wave of the power (torrent,) or just let it all fly (nova.) You can direct it to another body part and use it in melee (pretty much all of the secondary.)
Use your imagination.
Cyclops, Jubilee, and the rest have Willpower. Use that.
[ QUOTE ]
And yet Nightcrawler, Jubilee, Cyclops, Flash, etc have proven themselves time and time again capable without the use of a secondary power.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because they also have the power of plot, the same one that allows Batman to beat Superman.
I'm not talking about sets that have one power, and thats it. Not "you get one tier 1 attack that can be leveled up to tier 9 after 50 levels". I mean one power set, like just picking elec blaster abilities, and thats it. Thats where a lot of people seem to be getting confused.
And willpower isnt available to all different arch types.
I was just curious to see what everyone else thought about the idea, and clearly the majority are not in favor. Thanks for voicing your opinions though guys and gals.
[ QUOTE ]
And yet Nightcrawler, Jubilee, Cyclops, Flash, etc have proven themselves time and time again capable without the use of a secondary power. Granted I could just use a secondary, ignore it, and then move on with my life, but I still dont think it answers the question as to why. Perhaps this argument is fruitless.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just pick a secondary that matches your primary, silly.
Fire/Fire Blaster would work. Ice/Ice Corrupter or defender would work. Electric/Electric Brute would work. Dark.Dark Scrapper or Stalker would work. Shield/War Mace Tanker would work.
Etc etc.
The devs have made secondaries that line up with our primaries for this very reason. So that you can make a character who has one power, or a character with two or more types of abilites.
Because games aren't comics. Games have to consider things like advancement, balance, team utility, etc.
[ QUOTE ]
Because games aren't comics. Games have to consider things like advancement, balance, team utility, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
This. The way this game works =/ comics. In the comics, Cyclops can get away with only having his optic blasts. But in CoX, how far do you honestly think you could get with *only* X-Ray Beam/Laser Beam Eyes in your repertoire?
That being said, maybe Cyke is the one who needs more powers, instead of having player characters use less.
Storm Summoning is great because it makes you better than everyone else in the game. - Camma
Knockback is mitigation. It won't be removed just because meleers ***** and moan. - Chaos Creator
Cyclops doesn't have X-ray beam or Laser Beam Eyes. He has the Energy Blast set, only it comes out of his eyes instead of his hands 'cause he can be more angsty about it that way.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
So, I've been racking my brain over this the last couple of days or so, especially with the increased discussion of other Super hero based MMO's on the rise...
How is it that we cannot choose only one power set? I mean, for example, some heroes only have ONE power they manipulate and grow. For example, Cyclops only has his laser beam. Jubilee only has her flash bomb things, Rogue only has that power absorbtion (which yes can lead to OTHER powers, but not permanently).
I know we have the option of getting two power sets, and most people enjoy that... and I could be told to pick any secondary powerset I want and ignore the hell out of my secondary... but why should I? I was just curious on other peoples opinions on the matter.