What super hero only helps others?
By
BadJuJu,
Posted on: 2009-06-13 04:16 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Alot is based off of balancing a MMO game. In this game it was desired to promote a teaming structure where everyone could feel they filled an important valued role.
Unfortunately to make a game like this work many comic world aspects can get lost or screwed up. Like movement suppression. Imagine everytime the Flash threw a punch he lost all his super speed for 30 seconds or whatever or Ironman in flight running from 2 missiles, he shoots one down and is reduced to hover speed .. booooomm looks like the other missile caught him, darn that move suppression we loose more heroes that way. 
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I am curious, can anyone name one super hero who has virtually no powers of their own to help themselves but great powers to help others? I mean if a super hero can make other people immune to mind control
, shouldn't they also be immune to mind control? The same with fire resistance and cold resistance?
I am just curious where the devs came up with this concept and what super hero/heroine that they based it off of. 
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Been racking my brains tryng to come up with one and can't not in comic world OR in this game. You build your hero villian as you want and can choose to not get your self buffs, but no AT or powersets bar any hero or villian from self buffing powers. Just got up and wasn't thinking clearly.
Also there is no power that any set has to make another "Immune" to cold or mind control as far as I know.. only buff ressistance
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You build your hero villian as you want and can choose to not get your self buffs, but no AT or powersets bar any hero or villian from self buffing powers.
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I'd imagine the OP is talking about certain powersets such as /Thermal where you can buff and shield your teammates but are unable to do the same to yourself.
This makes certain sets extremely unattractive to soloers. I have a Fire/Therm corruptor, and of the first 5* powers in his secondary exactly ONE of them, the tier 1, is usable if I'm not in a team due to the "Cannot Target Self" rule.
*I can't speak for the latter 4 powers, as I've yet to level up that far.
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You build your hero villian as you want and can choose to not get your self buffs, but no AT or powersets bar any hero or villian from self buffing powers.
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I'd imagine the OP is talking about certain powersets such as /Thermal where you can buff and shield your teammates but are unable to do the same to yourself.
This makes certain sets extremely unattractive to soloers. I have a Fire/Therm corruptor, and of the first 5* powers in his secondary exactly ONE of them, the tier 1, is usable if I'm not in a team due to the "Cannot Target Self" rule.
*I can't speak for the latter 4 powers, as I've yet to level up that far.
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Thermal gets to use Warmth, Heat Exhaustion, and Melt Armor while solo.
The rest of the set consists of a single-target ranged heal (Cauterize), single-target +tohit +dam buff (Forge), single-target mez protection (Thaw), two single-target shields (Fire and Plasma), and a teammate rez (Power of the Phoenix).
Regarding the number of powers you can use while solo, it's tied with Empathy for the worst set at 3. Empathy gets Healing, Recovery, and Regeneration Aura.
On-topic, I really can't think of anyone that can shield others and not themselves, but a lot of things would have to be changed for balance reasons to allow it.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I'm kinda curious as to what character in this game you can create who is like that...
I mean -sure-. You can -choose- to only take one power from a non-buffing set as, say, a Defender. But you've still got attacks available to you.
So this character from comics with virtually no attacks at all is irrelevant.
-Rachel-
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I'm kinda curious as to what character in this game you can create who is like that...
I mean -sure-. You can -choose- to only take one power from a non-buffing set as, say, a Defender. But you've still got attacks available to you.
So this character from comics with virtually no attacks at all is irrelevant.
-Rachel-
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A MM who takes none of their attacks; they don't have "personal" power since their pets are doing all the damage.
I think the OP was referring to Controllers (the "pure team support" AT, if you read all the hyperbole in the Defender forums), but the controls don't exactly work that way.
It's still a build decision as opposed to a game-enforced limitation, though.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Siolfir I really can't think of anyone that can shield others and not themselves, but a lot of things would have to be changed for balance reasons to allow it.
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For the given support toon, probably the best workaround would be to slot invention sets that provide (say) the type of defence bonuses that make sense for your toon.
For a speedster, perhaps slotting Sprint and Swift would be a reasonable compromise, since these wouldn't be suppressed.
-Johnny
There's actually a lot of characters in the comics that are purely support characters. The problem is those characters aren't very fun to read about, and they aren't all that fun in a fight (kind of like a pure-healer build )
Luckily with this game, everyone has access to "attack" and "defense" powers. Though sometimes it's hard to tell if a power is an "attack" or "defense" power And some powers that look like "attacks" are actually your "defense". If that makes any sense...
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I am curious, can anyone name one super hero who has virtually no powers of their own to help themselves but great powers to help others? I mean if a super hero can make other people immune to mind control, shouldn't they also be immune to mind control? The same with fire resistance and cold resistance?
I am just curious where the devs came up with this concept and what super hero/heroine that they based it off of.
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There's that Japanese guy in Heroes - not the time-traveling one, but his friend. In the previous season, he got red electric stuff on his hands that made it so when he touched somebody else it amplified their powers.
Blue Lantern Corps members can't fight are are essentially empaths for Green Lanterns. I think all they can pretty much do for themselves is the standard flight and limited protective aura all lanterns get.
In comic continuity, Night Nurse springs to mind. In Marvel, she is the superheroes underground triage nurse.
Blue Lanterns in DC are a relatively new example.
These characters exist, but they don't ever have their own titles, for obvious reasons.
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Blue Lantern Corps members can't fight are are essentially empaths for Green Lanterns. I think all they can pretty much do for themselves is the standard flight and limited protective aura all lanterns get.
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Ah yes, i've been sort of avoiding the "Skittles in Space" event. How is that anyway?
Some powersets have a limited number of powers usable on your self, but every AT has at least one set that benefits them solo. There are quite a few comic characters who have powers that mostly just benefit others. They tend not to be the main characters for somewhat obvious reasons. 
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
From the Wildcards series of books: Damsel. Just a regular girl, but if she felt a strong enough attraction for a guy, she could give them super powers, or greatly increase powers if the guy already had some.
There is also Chance...the teen girl from Marvel comics who can double-or-nothing other people's powers. She was affiliated with Sunspot from New Mutants once when he ran away and formed a rag-tag group...can't remember their names.
Anyway. I honestly hate sets that have little self-benefit. I'm a practical player...sure I love some of the stuff in thermal radiation...but there will be times I want to play alone...that effectively guts a large number of my powers in a solo situation.
I have always thought that maybe the powers which are only usable on others should trigger some other kind of benefit for the user...of course I just avoid empathy, thermal and cold domination. That solves that right there. If I'm not killing something...there is no point to this game.
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You build your hero villian as you want and can choose to not get your self buffs, but no AT or powersets bar any hero or villian from self buffing powers.
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I'd imagine the OP is talking about certain powersets such as /Thermal where you can buff and shield your teammates but are unable to do the same to yourself.
This makes certain sets extremely unattractive to soloers. I have a Fire/Therm corruptor, and of the first 5* powers in his secondary exactly ONE of them, the tier 1, is usable if I'm not in a team due to the "Cannot Target Self" rule.
*I can't speak for the latter 4 powers, as I've yet to level up that far.
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I love sets like that. They allow you to get your buffs from pool powers much earlier when you make the solo build as you have so many less "must have" powers. Sure you have to build to lvl 6 to start em and won't see many till mid teens but can't think of any Super hero that didn't work towards their powers. Maybe you could say Thor or Isis but an arguement could be made they spent years as archeoligists or whatever before finding the magic item, and even then the powers they began with were less then what they eventually became.
And of course as you truly become a hero you have access to the epic powers. I know it takes a while to get there but even Superman had to spend years living under our yellow sun before devolping his "Super" powers. In an early 80s SM comic I remember a flashback series where Ms. Kent admit that only real sign he wasn't human was the fact he never got a cold. If you think about it, this can also be said: Not very many super heroes in the comic world ever could buff others same as self. Few exceptions like invis girl of FF.. but we have that. (shields) And Green lantern.. but think he also would fall more under defender then blaster and we can makesomething close to him. I can't ever think of a time or even suggested possiblity that the Torch could engulf someone in his flames and instead of roasting them grant them his buffs. Or Spiderman goin hey man, wanna borrow my Elusive buff from my SR set?
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Anyway. I honestly hate sets that have little self-benefit. I'm a practical player...sure I love some of the stuff in thermal radiation...but there will be times I want to play alone...that effectively guts a large number of my powers in a solo situation.
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It shouldn't now that they made it so easy to change between builds. My thermal solo build rocks as could pickup and stack many pool powers that other chars just don't have room for as they want/need most every power in their set. It's really quite amazing the amount of soloablity a therm gains when being able to stack the tough/weave/CJ/hover/leadership pools/Acro/etc stuff.
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You build your hero villian as you want and can choose to not get your self buffs, but no AT or powersets bar any hero or villian from self buffing powers.
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I'd imagine the OP is talking about certain powersets such as /Thermal where you can buff and shield your teammates but are unable to do the same to yourself.
This makes certain sets extremely unattractive to soloers. I have a Fire/Therm corruptor, and of the first 5* powers in his secondary exactly ONE of them, the tier 1, is usable if I'm not in a team due to the "Cannot Target Self" rule.
*I can't speak for the latter 4 powers, as I've yet to level up that far.
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And this is why you use dual builds. (And in many cases it's part of why I *like* the sets, now.)
Team build - heavy on the secondary, some offense.
Solo build - LOTS of room to play.
For instance, my Dark/Thermal Corruptor was fun, but irritating me a bit before dual builds. There were powers I wanted, either because I just *wanted* them or for concept, and powers I felt I had to have for teaming (shields, rez, etc.) This made it a somewhat weaker, though generally survivable, soloer.
With dual builds? The team build is somewhat weak on offense (and no, not "one attack with full secondary," she does have several attacks,) and heavy on the secondary. The solo build? Almost a full primary, the Presence pool (for the concept - needed the fears, and they're rather fun to use) and almost nothing from the secondary.
It's not quite that easy with some powersets, of course - I think very little is skippable for either build in Radiation emission, for instance - but for others, it's great.
Yes, when I go back to my Fire/Therm (powerset choice dictated by concept, as usual) I'll definately be doing a second build. Although I do team, I just don't feel comfortable with any character who can't solo at a reasonable level.
Of course I'll have to remind myself to switch builds when I do accept a team invite. I'd hate to be one of those characters who inexplicably doesn't bring their support powers to the team
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I am curious, can anyone name one super hero who has virtually no powers of their own to help themselves but great powers to help others? I mean if a super hero can make other people immune to mind control, shouldn't they also be immune to mind control? The same with fire resistance and cold resistance?
I am just curious where the devs came up with this concept and what super hero/heroine that they based it off of.
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There's that Japanese guy in Heroes - not the time-traveling one, but his friend. In the previous season, he got red electric stuff on his hands that made it so when he touched somebody else it amplified their powers.
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You know, I thought about him, but technically he doesn't fit. He's a hero from a TV series and not a TV show like Batman & Robin that was based on a herp from the comic world.
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I am curious, can anyone name one super hero who has virtually no powers of their own to help themselves but great powers to help others? I mean if a super hero can make other people immune to mind control, shouldn't they also be immune to mind control? The same with fire resistance and cold resistance?
I am just curious where the devs came up with this concept and what super hero/heroine that they based it off of.
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There's that Japanese guy in Heroes - not the time-traveling one, but his friend. In the previous season, he got red electric stuff on his hands that made it so when he touched somebody else it amplified their powers.
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You know, I thought about him, but technically he doesn't fit. He's a hero from a TV series and not a TV show like Batman & Robin that was based on a herp from the comic world.
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Also...as of last season...he can use it to blast with
I remember there was a gal way back when Magneto had Asteroid M that incresed all the powers of her team, which was her Mutant ability, but I can't remember her name.
Also in a wierd tangent kind of way there are some Device Villians like The Tinkerer, Fixer, Power Broker (Dr. Malus) and The Leader in Marvel and Tom Thumb in DC that have no physical powers but greatly increased other peoples powers with their Brilliant Minds...I guess they would be like Petless MMs in a weird kind of way, and all but the Tinkerer carried various weapons of their own design at one point or the other.
Oh and don't forget the Ultimate in Hero Support, the Mighty, Stupendous, Titanic Rick Jones...Freind to all persons in tights, and shredded purple pants!
"Now remember, things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is." Josey Wales
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There's actually a lot of characters in the comics that are purely support characters. The problem is those characters aren't very fun to read about, and they aren't all that fun in a fight (kind of like a pure-healer build )
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What interests me about "support" characters in this game is how really lacking they are in actual offense, and I'd wonder about comic characters that also lacked offense. In the "real" world, if I have access to, say, Mind Control, and decided to go out and beat up people of whatever alignment, I also have access to a baseball bat and my shotgun. Or just take up Kickboxing. Heck, Heroes are all licensed, they can carry all manner of swords and guns and no one would say anything.
Obviously the reason I can't have a Mind/Katana/Dual Pistols/Storm character in the game is due to balance issues. But it all falls apart hard when trying to bring that stuff out even into comics. Sure, puny human weapons are worthless against quite a few threats, but against basically regular humans? Please. I don't care how "well-trained" someone is, unless they're evading everything, a bullet will [censored] them up, and exceptions just prove the rule. You have to get into the realm of "protective materials that at this time do not exist" to get around it.
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What interests me about "support" characters in this game is how really lacking they are in actual offense, and I'd wonder about comic characters that also lacked offense. In the "real" world, if I have access to, say, Mind Control, and decided to go out and beat up people of whatever alignment, I also have access to a baseball bat and my shotgun. Or just take up Kickboxing. Heck, Heroes are all licensed, they can carry all manner of swords and guns and no one would say anything.
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The thing is you have access to all those things in the game via Power Pools and Temp Powers...
What gets me is that many people (not aimed at you in particular) say that the support characters are lacking in offense. When you really think about it, support characters have access to just as much offense as your offensive characters like scrappers and tankers (with lower base damage of course).
Emp/Rad Defender 9 attack powers in it's secondary.
Inv/SS Tanker 9 attack powers in it's secondary (counting Taunt).
Inv/Broadsword Scrapper 9 attack powers in it's primary.
Fire/Rad Controller 9 attack powers in it's primary.
And so on...
Heck Blasters are the only AT that are purely offense.
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Heck Blasters are the only AT that are purely offense.
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Heroes
Archetype Melee Range
Blaster 1.000 1.125
Controller 0.550 0.550
Defender 0.550 0.550
Scrapper 1.125 0.500
Tanker 0.800 0.500
Peacebringer 0.850 0.800
Bright Nova N/A 1.200
White Dwarf 1.000 N/A
Warshade 0.850 0.800
Dark Nova N/A 1.200
Black Dwarf 1.000 N/A
Pet 1.000 0.800
Villains
Archetype Melee Range
Corruptor 0.750 0.750
Dominator 0.750 0.650
Mastermind 0.550 0.550
Henchman 1 0.450 0.350
Henchman 2 0.550 0.450
Henchman 3 0.650 0.550
Brute 0.750 0.500
Stalker 1.000 0.600
Arachnos Soldier 1.000 1.000
Arachnos Widow 1.000 1.000
Pet 1.000 0.800
Blaster FTW 
Edit forgot to put in qoute first time 
I am curious, can anyone name one super hero who has virtually no powers of their own to help themselves but great powers to help others? I mean if a super hero can make other people immune to mind control
, shouldn't they also be immune to mind control? The same with fire resistance and cold resistance? 
I am just curious where the devs came up with this concept and what super hero/heroine that they based it off of.