Hmm. So Dominator Snipes are going to be "the equivalent" of 3.0 damage scale Blaster Snipes.
Good news... I suspect that Dom snipes are the test case and Blaster snipes will "catch up" if it turns out to be a good change after it's been live for a month or two. Or maybe Blaster snipes will catch up next patch.
These are my guesses. I have no evidence for them.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
It's funny because a lot of Dominators took the snipe just to mule an IO set for Permadom. I wonder just how much damage they will do after the base damage boost Dominators are getting in the future. I might have to include blazing bolt on my new Earth/Fire dom.
I still wish they would do something about the lengthy time the power takes to animate.
[ QUOTE ]
It's funny because a lot of Dominators took the snipe just to mule an IO set for Permadom. I wonder just how much damage they will do after the base damage boost Dominators are getting in the future. I might have to include blazing bolt on my new Earth/Fire dom.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, their damage mod is going up from 0.65 to 0.95 and the snipes are going from 2.76 to 3.56. If my math is correct (don't have my useful links here), then the increase in damage would be around 90%, all told, so about twice more out of domination. I wish I could check Iakona's power numbers charts to give you an actual damage points change.
[ QUOTE ]
I still wish they would do something about the lengthy time the power takes to animate.
[/ QUOTE ]
If the powers do THIS much damage, I can live with the animation time. It's worth it. Ain't been a power of this magnitude on a high-damage AT before, with the possible exception of Greater Fire Sword.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. So Dominator Snipes are going to be "the equivalent" of 3.0 damage scale Blaster Snipes.
[/ QUOTE ]
In other words, Snipes stronger than those of the "damage kings" 
[ QUOTE ]
Good news... I suspect that Dom snipes are the test case and Blaster snipes will "catch up" if it turns out to be a good change after it's been live for a month or two. Or maybe Blaster snipes will catch up next patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a very good way of looking at it. Really, if that works out for Doms, and the changes I see being made to them are about as far away from conventional balance as I've seen yet so I hope they do, that might spell an increase for Blasters, as well. I remember how Dual Blades was announced to be the set to test if extracting recharge out of power animations was viable and meaningful, and a few months later other sets began to receive the same treatment.
Personally, I still have a few issues with Blasters even after all the positive changes, and I strongly suspect a change to make Snipes as powerful as I feel they should be would fix most, if not all of them. I don't want to get into the specific, but to say that a Snipe which makes such a big deal about itself really SHOULD hit like a train
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
After seeing what was done to psychic shockwave I am really not sure I want the kind of tradeoff that comes with this buff.
Do you really want a higher damage blazing bolt if it means blaze gets nerfed
I'm pretty sure blaze isn't getting modified. Castle is rebalancing the /Psi set for Dominators and possible /NRG if I've been keeping up properly.
Let's not bring that here. Psychic Shockwave has been in the mouths of people for years same as Smoke Grenade once was. That's all I'm going to say about it.
As far as Blaze goes, I know Castle has his eye on it. If it gets slowed down, I won't be one bit surprised, as everyone will alternately agree either that it's REALLY GREAT or that it seems faster than an attack of this scale should be. I happen to be from the latter group, but then I also feel that Bitter Ice Blast is too fast and Bitter Freeze Ray too slow.
None of which should have to come to play, however. I don't believe a tradeoff is in order for upping Snipe performance. Sure, either a cost or a recharge increase would be in order, but I'm personally fine with that. Fickle as snipes are, I'd rather they carried more punch for when I DID get to use them, rather than being usable very often when the OPPORTUNITY to use them isn't always there. Plus, it's a snipe. It SHOULD make me shout "Boom! Headshot!" every time I fire it
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I already shout Boom! Headshot! but this'll make it so I do it more often. Here's to hoping Blaster snipes get the same treatment as Dominator snipes!
I think the focus is Dominators. I think Blasters are still considered overpowered (of course I feel they are underpowered usually, especially the snipes).
I remember from pre-Enhancement Diversification CoH, I'd wind up fully slotted Zapp with Aim and Build-Up and drop a Tank Swiper to 25% HPs. Now that was a sniper attack. Some players would go, "what was that?"
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
[ QUOTE ]
....
As far as Blaze goes, I know Castle has his eye on it. If it gets slowed down, I won't be one bit surprised, as everyone will alternately agree either that it's REALLY GREAT or that it seems faster than an attack of this scale should be. I happen to be from the latter group, but then I also feel that Bitter Ice Blast is too fast and Bitter Freeze Ray too slow.
....
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh I hope not. I think all the ATs should have a Blaze-like power. It hits hard, it executes quickly, and the animation is fluid and very appropriate. Every set should have at least one power that executes that nicely. I hope they don't go back to Statesman-type thinking and nerf it. Even when they extended the range, it's still significantly shorter than the other blasts and requires you to move into a much closer range than the rest of the set requires.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
[ QUOTE ]
Let's not bring that here. Psychic Shockwave has been in the mouths of people for years same as Smoke Grenade once was. That's all I'm going to say about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well its things like that why I am always leary about a set getting help. Its kind of like the government helping. /dev still underperforms every other secondary in terms of speed and damage output on teams. /psi which was the brass ring for dominators is looking like it will be very ho hum.
I'd like to have better snipes but not at the expense of seeing Ice rebalanced, fire looked at or arch and assault rifle being readjusted.
Just take a look at MA the last time I checked the customs were running approximately 10% more hp than regular critters. This was very nasty for blasters soloing spawns
[ QUOTE ]
Oh I hope not. I think all the ATs should have a Blaze-like power. It hits hard, it executes quickly, and the animation is fluid and very appropriate. Every set should have at least one power that executes that nicely. I hope they don't go back to Statesman-type thinking and nerf it. Even when they extended the range, it's still significantly shorter than the other blasts and requires you to move into a much closer range than the rest of the set requires.
[/ QUOTE ]
Skirting the quote - here's the beef I have with Blasters and the reason I want Snipes improved. People are ecstatic over Blaster "hard-hitters" in their primaries, yet these supposed hard-hitters hit at a VERY low scale damage when compared to just about any other damage dealer's "big stuff." Blaze and Power Burst hit at 2.2 scale damage and Bitter Ice Blast hits at a little above that. Yet at the same time, Head Splitter hits at 2.6, Greater Fire Sword at 3.44, Knockout Blow at 3.56 and Energy Transfer at 4.5. OK, so some of these aren't available to high-mod ATs, but Scrappers have the same damage mod on their primary as Blasters have on theirs - 1.125. Yet consistently, Scrappers get bigger attacks for less cost and less situational unavailability than Blasters - the supposed damage kings.
Snipes are the only thing that Blasters have that can match Scrapper damage, nukes notwithstanding, and snipes are either too weak or too fickle to use. A Scrapper can pump out a Head Splitter after Head Splotter for marginally less damage and marginally more recharge, but do so as soon as the power recharges at no danger of wasted endurance and no need to find "the right moment." Oh, sure, one can argue that you still have to position to catch more than one person, but the power's cost and recharge are balanced around it being single-target, so even if a single target is all you hit, you're STILL better off than a Blaster, whose only free Sniper shot is at the beginning of the fight. A Scrapper has free shots at Head Splitter pretty much as long as he is alive, because a Head Splitter cannot be stopped.
Snipes come with a whole cartload of niggling, grating limitations in tow, yet what they do doesn't measure up to the stunts you have to pull to use it. Not at its current damage mod. I HATE fickle powers, lemme tell ya, but if my Snipe did 3.56 scale damage, I would shut the hell up, grin and bear it, because THAT kind of damage coming out of a Blaster's primary damage mod would be WORTH IT, and then some. Maybe it would make me feel truly powerful and truly awesome in a whole new way. And at the end of the day, isn't that what it's all about?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
So how's this put snipes' DPA in comparison to the rest of the ST attacks in the sets?
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
[ QUOTE ]
So how's this put snipes' DPA in comparison to the rest of the ST attacks in the sets?
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean currently? Other than Blazing Bolt, which gets bonus DOT damage, the snipes all have lower DPA than any other blaster primary blasts. Blazing Bolt is in the lowish end of the range.
Sam's proposed increase would put the others at about where Blazing Bolt is now, relatively. Blazing Bolt would be about in the middle of the pack, assuming it kept the bonus damage.
One thing I've always thought is odd, and I think if nothing else is changed, it should be. With that much time to cast, you'd think they'd at least get the Defiance bonus to match. But they don't. The Defiance Bonus is based on the actual cast time, which doesn't include the 3 second interrupt period.
So Sniper Blast, for example, gets just a 8.78% Defiance bonus, based on its 1.67 second cast time. If it was based on the total cast time including the interrupt (4.67 sec), it'd get a 28.58% bonus. That would at least help them be a little more useful. If you used it at the beginning of the fight, your subsequent attacks would start out stronger.
I do think the snipes could use a little .... something. I still use them on some characters, they're a good solo fight starter, but they could use something.
You know, the current level of Snipe damage, which is to say DPA, isn't all *that* bad. Adjusted for Arcanatime, most snipes do about 70~75% damage of T1 or 2 blasts, and about the same DPE as well. Considering their range and front loaded appeal, and the availability of some seriously cheap snipe sets out there, I'm not so sure it really needs that much love. Then again, I only have a snipe in one of my dual builds on just one of my blasters, so who am I to argue?
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
I've always thought Snipes are useless. I rarely see Dominator uses Snipe. They took Snipe just for the +recharge bonus.
I like the new change on Snipe and it won't surprise me if this treatment is spread around those who have Snipe.
My Dark Blast Corr took Snipe and I use it whenever I want to entertain myself. I get much better damage with just Dark Blast + Gloom and repeat.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
[ QUOTE ]
You know, the current level of Snipe damage, which is to say DPA, isn't all *that* bad. Adjusted for Arcanatime, most snipes do about 70~75% damage of T1 or 2 blasts, and about the same DPE as well. Considering their range and front loaded appeal, and the availability of some seriously cheap snipe sets out there, I'm not so sure it really needs that much love. Then again, I only have a snipe in one of my dual builds on just one of my blasters, so who am I to argue?
[/ QUOTE ]
My problem with Snipe is that a lot of time, the damage is wasted because the target is already dead because it takes 4s. You really have to pick a nice target to shoot Snipe (or pull). In that case, I might as well just cycle Tier 1 and 2 or 3 (Bitter Ice Blast / Blaze)
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I really don't think DPA or DPS applies to Snipes very well. I mean, you can calculate it, yes, but for actual practice to reflect statistical average, one would have to cycle a Snipe as soon as it recharges. Given that it's interruptible and cannot be used just haphazardly whenever a Blaster fancies and that, given its long activation time, many opt for faster, slightly less damaging powers instead, it has been my experience that Snipes spend a LOT of time recharged and waiting to be used. From my own experience, that's AT LEAST twice as long as they actually take to recharge, and that's without speeding them up in any way. Add that to the fact that their DPA really IS lower than one would expect, I don't believe an increase is that far out of order.
There's actually another interesting phenomenon. The longer a power takes to recharge, the more likely it is that its actual use will reflect predicted DPA numbers, because it will spend less time waiting, relative to its cycle length. What's more, people tend to be more likely to use these powers, as they are relatively cheap in animation time vs. recharge time, bringing them closer to their predicted numbers.
In light of the above, I actually think that a change to make Sniper Blast have BETTER DPA than is expected of it will give the power some needed "oomph," but because it's not very likely to reach this predicted better DPA, still keep it balanced. I would not, however, mind seeing a recharge increase to preserve DPA. As Blasts are hard to pull off and tend to be situational, concentrating more of the attack into fewer shots is going to help it both get better ACTUAL DPA, as well as make it more exciting to play with, at least from where I'm looking.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
[ QUOTE ]
....
As far as Blaze goes, I know Castle has his eye on it. If it gets slowed down, I won't be one bit surprised, as everyone will alternately agree either that it's REALLY GREAT or that it seems faster than an attack of this scale should be. I happen to be from the latter group, but then I also feel that Bitter Ice Blast is too fast and Bitter Freeze Ray too slow.
....
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, slowing down blaze would decrease performance in PvE, but in PvP that would increase the damage done, so the devs have to moderate that. I can guarantee it won't take 3 seconds to get blaze off even if they increase the time
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't think DPA or DPS applies to Snipes very well. I mean, you can calculate it, yes, but for actual practice to reflect statistical average, one would have to cycle a Snipe as soon as it recharges. Given that it's interruptible and cannot be used just haphazardly whenever a Blaster fancies and that, given its long activation time, many opt for faster, slightly less damaging powers instead, it has been my experience that Snipes spend a LOT of time recharged and waiting to be used. From my own experience, that's AT LEAST twice as long as they actually take to recharge, and that's without speeding them up in any way. Add that to the fact that their DPA really IS lower than one would expect, I don't believe an increase is that far out of order.
There's actually another interesting phenomenon. The longer a power takes to recharge, the more likely it is that its actual use will reflect predicted DPA numbers, because it will spend less time waiting, relative to its cycle length. What's more, people tend to be more likely to use these powers, as they are relatively cheap in animation time vs. recharge time, bringing them closer to their predicted numbers.
In light of the above, I actually think that a change to make Sniper Blast have BETTER DPA than is expected of it will give the power some needed "oomph," but because it's not very likely to reach this predicted better DPA, still keep it balanced. I would not, however, mind seeing a recharge increase to preserve DPA. As Blasts are hard to pull off and tend to be situational, concentrating more of the attack into fewer shots is going to help it both get better ACTUAL DPA, as well as make it more exciting to play with, at least from where I'm looking.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the dev may be playing it safe to see how Dominator performs with Snipes and they can use those data to see if it makes sense to port them to Blaster/Corr/Defender. I think it's highly possible.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
The numbers Im seeing show this as a decrease in dps over time instead of an increase.
Example:
Sniper Blast: Increased this powers damage scale from 2.76 to 3.56, increased its recharge from 12 seconds to 20 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 14.4 to 18.51.
Old scale 2.76/12rech=.23/sec
New Scale 3.56/20rech=.178/sec
Shots/min Old: 60seconds/12sec rech=5
Shots/min New: 60sec/20 sec rech=3
So youre doing LESS damage over the SAME amount of time for MORE endurance. All snipes would be better served by removing 2 of the 3 accuracy checks they go through for a power that is supposedly going to be more accurate due to the time it takes to make the shot. Missing 2 shots in 5 with %96 to-hit and %1.93 accuracy is ample evidence of this.
This is yet another stealth nerf like Domination received.
Pinnacle: Sgt. Major - L50 ARDevicesElec Blaster ,Sgt. Medic - L50 IllusionEmpathy Controller, PootyButt - L50 DarkDP Defender Skunk
Virtue: Rockford Pennington - L50 StoneSS Tank, L50 WPSS Tank, L40 ElecDM Tank, L37 DADM Tank, L50 EmpRad Def, Zoom Jr - L50 FireDev Blaster
[ QUOTE ]
The numbers Im seeing show this as a decrease in dps over time instead of an increase.
Example:
Sniper Blast: Increased this powers damage scale from 2.76 to 3.56, increased its recharge from 12 seconds to 20 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 14.4 to 18.51.
Old scale 2.76/12rech=.23/sec
New Scale 3.56/20rech=.178/sec
Shots/min Old: 60seconds/12sec rech=5
Shots/min New: 60sec/20 sec rech=3
So youre doing LESS damage over the SAME amount of time for MORE endurance. All snipes would be better served by removing 2 of the 3 accuracy checks they go through for a power that is supposedly going to be more accurate due to the time it takes to make the shot. Missing 2 shots in 5 with %96 to-hit and %1.93 accuracy is ample evidence of this.
This is yet another stealth nerf like Domination received.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that Snipe can't be used like a regular attack where you can cycle it whenever it's up. I can care less about the recharge increase because if I am using Snipe, I either use it to open the battle or to finish a runner off. I want BIG damage ONCE. That is what Snipe is good for.
Snipe is never intended to be used like Semi-Auto Assault Rifle where you just waste bullets left and right. Snipe is a hard-hitting, deadly shot which is what this new buff is for.
I like the new change. I may just use Snipe more now. If I want good DPS attack Chain, I don't need to include Snipe. The old Snipe is not even good at finishing off runners.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I totally agree with you here, Samuel.
Upping the damage on snipes at the cost of recharge would be great. As they stand, they dont even drop a even-con lieutenant with Aim and Build Up. That's just wrong.
The change to dom snipes just further supports that the intended changes are to make doms focus on solo performance.
Team doms open up with control. Snipe could one shot AV's and that wouldn't change for them 
Snipes just have no place for dominators, the buff to them doesn't change that.
Now for blasters it is a great idea to make them more useful. However, they must be very attractive rather than just moderately attractive, which if given the dom treatment, is all they would be.
Now, I generally don't go to the AT forums unless I have a specific reason (my builds really suck
), and most of what I've said in this forum has been about Snipes and how much I think they're too expensive for what they do. That's old news by now, and I still remember all the arguments. Believe me, I wouldn't be reviving an old thing like that if there wasn't at least SOMEWHAT of a reason for it.
So I was looking through the patch notes to Test today, and I spotted the Dominator changes. "Now or *never," says Castle, and I've always felt earlier is better than later, so it's all good. But then I run across a few interesting bits and pieces.
[ QUOTE ]
Sniper Blast: Increased this powers damage scale from 2.76 to 3.56, increased its recharge from 12 seconds to 20 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 14.4 to 18.51.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Zapp: Increased this powers damage scale from 2.76 to 3.56, increased its recharge from 12 seconds to 20 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 14.4 to 18.51.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Blazing Bolt: Increased this powers direct damage component damage scale from 2.12 to 3.56, increased its recharge from 12 seconds to 20 seconds and its endurance cost from 14.4 to 18.5.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Psionic Lance: Increased this powers damage scale from 2.76 to 3.56, increased its recharge from 12 to 20 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 14.4 to 18.51.
[/ QUOTE ]
Notice the pattern there? All of the various snipes of the various Assault sets that have them are getting boosted from their standard Blaster damage scale of 2.76 (approximately that of Cleave), to what seems to be the "upper cap" on reasonable attack damage of 3.56 scale (that of Knockout Blow and Total Focus, to name a few).
And
That's
GREAT!
For Dominators, that is. And it's not like their ranged damage mod is weak, either - they have 0.95 to Blasters' 1.125. Blaster Snipes, in the meantime, remain the same as they always have been, which... Kind of bugs me a little. I've always said Snipes needed a little something more, something to make the Blaster go "I want to use this!" rather than the struggle it is to actually remember we have them. I've discussed speeding them up, removing the interrupt duration, giving them critical hits or what have you, but probably THE biggest thing that I've wanted to see done to them was THIS. Exactly this. If a snipe will cost a lot, be slow and be interruptible, then it had better well do truly extreme damage. Well, 3.56 is the DEFINITION of Extreme damage, and I would very, very much like to see that happen to Blasters, as well. That right there would probably DOUBLE my enjoyment of the AT in one, single move.