Love/Hate Thing


Ad Astra

 

Posted

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Which type of boss are you referring to?

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Any boss (below AV) that lands a mezz on me will contiune to get hammered with 3 of my better attacks until he drops or I'm free. If things really stack up, of course I'll eat a Break Free...but not nearly as quickly / often as I would have to without Defiance.


 

Posted

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Are you talking about Old Defiance here?

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Very probably - the concept where dropping health increases damage output is what I was
referring to... I think it taught a lot of blasters a very unwise approach to tactics and
aggro management, and I think it lead to a lot of (foolish/needless) faceplanting for
quite some time.

During that time, I totally detuned the word "defiance" from my consciousness.

Blastering was (and is still) about:
* Be careful what/how you aggro things
* Kill whatever you do aggro quickly and efficiently

Failure in either of those points is a (well deserved tbh) hospital trip.

If Defiance 2.0 has gotten rid of the initial idiotic approach for something useful, then
that's all to the good, but it still doesn't change the two fundamental rules listed above.

Sorry for any confusion caused to due poor clarity of communication on my part.


Regards,
4


PS> It still comes down to "Blasters aren't broken" (imho)

PPS> I don't get hit with Mezzes much... First, because I have an E3 Blaster with 3 holds,
so those guys get locked down quickly, and 2nd, because I play solo, so I don't often
get into fights I didn't start myself - which means I kill the dangerous targets first...


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For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.

 

Posted

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When you solo, of course you have to rely more on tactics than firepower when dealing with challenging content. I missed the part where that was a bad thing. Where would be the fun in blowing up everything in your path with minimal risk of eating dirt? Beats me.

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Solo. And I never said I had anything against using tactics. The thing is that I have to use so many "evasive manoeuvres" that you rarely get the kind of time you need to... Well, be a Blaster. Sure, trampling through stuff in sleep mode is boring, but I'd still like to have the opportunity to let rip and be EFFECTIVE from time to time, rather than be dead. It's like having a super-fast sports car and living on a small tropical island without roads. Fat load of good that does you.

I pick Blasters because they're so powerful - easily the most powerful in the game in terms of raw output. Yet I have to either NOT be powerful, or bring other people along, thus defeating the point of being powerful in the first place. If I'll have other people do my content for my, why bother? Sure, I'll take teams when I can, but not being able to look after myself REALLY bugs me.

And the other thing is, as I mentioned before, that while my Scrappers have a lot of emergency response powers that can allow them to survive those extra ambushes or that double spawn, a Blaster has barely enough to handle what he's looking at, and more enemies - specifically when they're scripted to come - make things either bad bad BAD, or outright impossible. It's the disparity between ATs that bugs me more than anything else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

I agree Bruise, take a look at any other MMO out there, and you will realize that the "blaster/mage" role, has some sort of mitigation for lost life points. WoW gives the mage a shield and a bubble, also a teleport. Followed by stuns. Hunters/Rangers, are given either a pet, or "feigning/ playing possum". Priests/Clerics, in some MMO's are given pets, shields, bubbles, and or self rez.

When coming into CoH I felt the blaster was a bit lacking in the defense department. They come with no survival powers and 0 resists. No trick up their sleeves and no bubbles. One has to either IO up, or wait till 41-45 ish to get a bubble. Obviously very late and very optional at this point. Defiance was the trick, but it got nerfed into an entirely different power and ignored.

In my opinion, I learned that making a "mage" class fun is providing it a way to escape any situation said mage puts himself in. Be it either bubble, or shield. Nothing's perfect but, as far as blasters go in CoH, they pretty much would get obliterated by any other mage in any other MMO. The problem is the secondary effects of Blaster AT's in CoH, Ice doesn't slow down targets as effectively as it would in say WoW. And Psionics doesn't confuse or hold long enough to make a difference.

In a sense if Scrappers are the cheap and very bulky offspring of Rogues, then blasters are the sluggish malnourished peasants of mages. I don't see any great things happening for blasters any time soon.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

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but I'd still like to have the opportunity to let rip and be EFFECTIVE from time to time, rather than be dead.

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You mean you can't "let it rip" and be effective as a Blaster from time to time? Either you are overstating your point or you just don't know how use your Blaster effectively.

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I pick Blasters because they're so powerful - easily the most powerful in the game in terms of raw output. Yet I have to either NOT be powerful, or bring other people along, thus defeating the point of being powerful in the first place. If I'll have other people do my content for my, why bother? Sure, I'll take teams when I can, but not being able to look after myself REALLY bugs me.

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Are you aware of the fact that many players (myself included) regularly solo Invincilble level content with their Blasters? What exactly are you having trouble doing? Isn't it possible that it is your build or approach that impeades you and not the AT itself?


 

Posted

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In my opinion, I learned that making a "mage" class fun is providing it a way to escape any situation said mage puts himself in. Be it either bubble, or shield. Nothing's perfect but, as far as blasters go in CoH, they pretty much would get obliterated by any other mage in any other MMO. The problem is the secondary effects of Blaster AT's in CoH, Ice doesn't slow down targets as effectively as it would in say WoW. And Psionics doesn't confuse or hold long enough to make a difference.

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Oh please put away that fantasy MMO comparison. I came to CoH from the Guild Wars / WoW camp and fell in love the Blaster immediately. LOL - give me a "caster" that can solo the hardest game content over a wand waving backliner any day.


 

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My personal observation after 3+ years and playing every AT with a very wide array of powersets is that blasters are the ONLY AT that can struggle at what they are designed to do without outside help

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Use of the word struggle is widely overstating it.


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Yes, they can be built to do extaordinary things and yes insps help a lot but that only makes it difficult to pinpoint what changes would not screw up the balance

If we have reached the point where a character HAS to be IO'd then let's just say that and forget all this, but across the board what other AT has to ? (besides Doms, and that's changing)

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I only just - since I14 - IO'd my namesake character and blaster. He's been running on SOs for years. I just never felt the need or the 'struggle' to change him. I came into some cash and decided to spruce him up is all.


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I ask again- is it my imagination that blasters faceplant more than any other AT?

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No its probably not your imagination. It is probably true with you playing them. Now, I don't mean that to be snarky. Every AT plays different and not everyone's play style is suited to all ATs. You should see me struggle with my MMs.

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There seems to be a majority of agreement

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Sorry, I must not be reading the same thread. Or at a minimum my play experience generates completely different results.

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1) inspirations ftw

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True on all ATs, really. so this is specious at best.

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2) build with IOs

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I already point out that isn't necessary.

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3) lower your difficulty

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My lead blaster runs at a higher level than several other ATs/characters in my stable. Even when he was on SOs.

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So where do we go from here?

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No where. And that's about as positive as I can be.


City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.

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Posted

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Oh please put away that fantasy MMO comparison. I came to CoH from the Guild Wars / WoW camp and fell in love the Blaster immediately. LOL - give me a "caster" that can solo the hardest game content over a wand waving backliner any day.

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The point of the topic is to use evidence and compare, thats how the Devs make games. They see something so they decide to make it better using pre existing knowledge or genre's. Why am I explaining this?, are you that in need of an e-arguement?, grow up kiddo. And yeah you can solo AV's with IO sets a shivan pet and tons of purps. It comes off very underpowered when I put it in those terms doesnt it?. If your going to post "I can solo AV's" atleast point out why, don't make it seem like you can get on CoH and solo everything out the gate.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

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The point of the topic is to use evidence and compare, thats how the Devs make games. They see something so they decide to make it better using pre existing knowledge or genre's. Why am I explaining this?, are you that in need of an e-arguement?, grow up kiddo. And yeah you can solo AV's with IO sets a shivan pet and tons of purps. It comes off very underpowered when I put it in those terms doesnt it?. If your going to post "I can solo AV's" atleast point out why, don't make it seem like you can get on CoH and solo everything out the gate.

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First off, I don't use Shivans. But I do use every other advantage the game offers - with zero shame.

I also believe that if you do not take advantage of the legit perks the game offers, you're just foolishly cheating yourself.

Take every legal advantage you need and win: That's how I play in every game.


 

Posted

Quick pop quiz. What do Anti-matter, neuron, bobcat, shadowhunter, chimera, nightstar, siege, infernal, battle maiden, and maliase all have in common?

Every last one of them has been soloed in EB form by my ice/dev now. With the help of 4 reds and 2 to 4 purples.

The only one that defeated me was shadowhunter the second time cause he got a heal off and i wasted too much time after popping my insps. Though nightstar came close, i did need four greens for her. The rest? Total complete jokes.

Which blaster has been killed by ambush adds only three times in her entire career?

my ice/dev again, two times being malta. The third during an AE mission, 8 person team, and an ambush mid AV fight. The malta ones were a zeus fight in the daedlus arc solo, the other the end of project world wide red on the kronos map when the ambush ported on my head in a 4 person team. The Rikti EB in the RWZ nearly did, but after a quick retreat and a couple purples + greens I finished him and them off.

Sorry if I delve into snark again here, but come on, let's drop this woe is blasters we can't do a thing crap. So we can't solo an EB or an AV, umm so what? When was the last time you saw a troller do it since the purple triangles were added? When was the last time you saw a tank do it without reds and/or blues to offset the fact that otherwise the fight will take the next 72 hours? When was the last time a scrapper did it without a little extra boost to heal from a nuke or a little extra damage?

The fact that blaster can't solo AV = blaster somehow broken is a quantum leap of logic I can't follow. And the same goes for using Insps = blaster broken. Hello, we have them for a reason. And I see zero problem or zero shame in popping 4 reds and 2 purples to drop every one of those EB's. I fight with any means I can to win, and I dare you to point out any other AT player that doesn't feel the same way.

Tactics? Somehow blasters need to have a monopoly on that too? Leeroy charge in scrappers are the kind of scrappers I hate, more so the kind that just randomly attack rather then go for the boss, or have aoe attacks but no idea how to bunch up mobs for them. Tanks who have attacks that scatter before the troller lays an aoe hold, or go after that one mob and loses sight of the others are tanks I hate. Trollers who keep laying down immobs when you have a tank or blaster using knockdowns as mitigation are trollers I hate. Same for ones who can't manage their pets. Defenders who can't keep enough situational awareness to drop a debuff or heal at the right time, or ones who think it's just their job to sit back, put up bubbles then do nothing are defenders I hate. Add to that list ones who think they are blasters with buffs.

Somehow me using my holds and mitigation is taking away from my blasting? Samuel I respect your posts and your opinions, but this time you are way off base. If that was the case then we wouldn't need the entire devices set for one, a majority of the ice secondary, hotfeet, need I go on?

Not being able to use my powers to their fullest? I use nearly two full toolbars of powers pretty much full time. Adding munitions means i almost need a third. And the only time, ONLY time I couldn't pull off a fight that a scrapper or tank could have was a duel zeus titan freak tank combo. (again I blame malta here, and the fact I was too stubborn to take the slider back to heroic) The fake nemesis and devoured boss though? Heh, no contest.

Blasters are not broken just as scrappers are not easy mode (Pre IH nerf regen scrappers aside =p) I've leveled this one to 48 now with a hefty hunk of IO's, but my old 50 ar/eng? Still totally SO'ed and got there pre inventions and I9 with barely a faceplant. The only thing stopping any blaster from using their powers to the fullest is a lack of tactics, build knowledge, or imagination, not busted game mechanics and AT disparity, that's total bunk.


 

Posted

I agree with many of your points.

But please don't ever accept this as fact:
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So we can't solo an EB or an AV, umm so what

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Now that's total bunk. Blasters can and do solo AVs.


 

Posted

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I agree with many of your points.

But please don't ever accept this as fact:
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So we can't solo an EB or an AV, umm so what

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Now that's total bunk. Blasters can and do solo AVs.

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EBs are a joke 99% of the time for my fire/ice/force blaster. Sure, I have to use Geas/Eye of the Magus/Force of Nature, but those are in-game mechanics designed for players to use in extreme situations. AVs are something I haven't quite tackled, but I can't imagine I'm that far off from soloing at least 1 of them.

that being said, I also agree with many of your points DragonKat.


 

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Now that's total bunk. Blasters can and do solo AVs.

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AVs I can't speak about, but EBs are actually EASIER to solo than regular content by virtue of their rarity. I can always carry four purples and two or four reds and obliterate pretty much any EB, and have done so with the greatest of ease. All the Praetorians, the Kronos Titan, the Clockwork King, Babbage, Vanessa DeVore, Nemesis a few times, Nosferatu, the list goes on. Elite bosses are easy because for them you can prepare. I'm not sure about you, but I at least can't bring the same preparation down to bear on every bloody Zeus Titan when a Malta mission decides to spawn a dozen of 'em, lest I leave to buy inspirations at least half a dozen times.

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Take every legal advantage you need and win: That's how I play in every game.

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Bill Z Bubba said it best a long time ago. Yes, it's true that Blasters can become a lot better with all the benefits of Inventions and inspirations. But then so can Scrappers, and they can get a LOT better for it, into the territory of outright broken.

This isn't a question of absolute performance. It's a question of relative performance. And the fact of the matter is that a Scrapper, a Brute or a Mastermind can take a horrible build, play like an idiot and STILL achieve performance that rivals that of a Blaster with a very careful, expensive build and played absolutely expertly. This is the AT disparity that ruins my fun with Blasters - the knowledge that I could be playing another AT and demolishing the enemies that make my Blaster quake in his boots, and do so with the greatest of ease.

When I play a Scrapper, I am filled with confidence. When I play a Blaster, I am filled with caution. That right there shouldn't be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

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I can always carry four purples and two or four reds and obliterate pretty much any EB

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Not even necessary. Eye of the Magus + Aim + BU is enough to drop any EB, with little trouble.

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but I at least can't bring the same preparation down to bear on every bloody Zeus Titan when a Malta mission decides to spawn a dozen of 'em, lest I leave to buy inspirations at least half a dozen times

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Are you having trouble soloing one ZCT or more than one at once?

For one ZCT you should not need any Inspritions (assuming you have a decent attack chain). For more than one at once, you will likely need to sneak in a green or blue (if you decide to nuke the tin heaps).

Oh, and there is nothing cooler than hearing that crashing sound when they drop.

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When I play a Scrapper, I am filled with confidence. When I play a Blaster, I am filled with caution.

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When I play a Blaster I am filled with confidence. To each his own, I guess.


 

Posted

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For one ZCT you should not need any Inspritions (assuming you have a decent attack chain).

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What build are you assuming? Because I'm assuming one as "expensive" as that of my Scrappers, which is essentially SOs or Common Inventions. With that, not needing inspirations for a Zeus is a rarity, though if I'm VERY lucky, I could manage it. Missile Swarms that take 3/4 of my health away, Quad Plasma Barrages that take at least half my health away and at least 30% damage resistance to everything, more to Smashing and Lethal doesn't exactly lend itself easy killing.

More than one at a time is, for my Blasters at least, flatly impossible. A Scrapper with a build the same cost, on the other hand, wouldn't have much trouble besides needing to use an extra power or two that usually go unused because they aren't needed.

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When I play a Blaster I am filled with confidence. To each his own, I guess.

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Would that I could, but when one slip-up, one little mistake, one errant boss shot or one awkward side step into a neighbouring spawn means certain death, how could I? When I play a Scrapper, I need to take on something SERIOUSLY bad to even be in meaningful danger, and that's if I'm so much as awake. On my Blaster, I have to dig pretty deep to find something I'm NOT in severe danger against, and that usually means taking on stuff below my level.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

You just want it to be "apples to apples" and have issues with the way the Blaster AT was designed. I'll leave you alone. But first, let me refer to the game manual (LOL remember that thing?):

The Blaster is an offensive juggernaut. This hero can deal a ton of damage from either a distance or up-close, but he must be careful because he's somewhat fragile compared to other heroes. The Blaster can't stand toe to toe with most opponents for long. His best defense is a great offense!

Sure, one could dissect that general description and spin it however they like. But from the day I installed the game, I knew what to expect from rolling a Blaster and have found the manual's introduction to be fairly accurate. Hence, you'll find no surprise or frustration here - just lots of ways to skin the cat.


 

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ot even necessary. Eye of the Magus + Aim + BU is enough to drop any EB, with little trouble.

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Eye is an incredible pain to get. I find it less trouble to buy IOs and purple out a build than to find enough people that want to afk farm summoned illusionists.

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Are you having trouble soloing one ZCT or more than one at once?

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These things do not spawn by themselves


 

Posted

Defiance 2.0 fixed all of my problems with my blaster. I can fight any enemy group, I can always stay out of range, and I can keep firing, even when I'm mezzed. My blaster doesn't stop until they die, and in many ways, they are becoming stronger than my brute.


 

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Dragonkat: when you say [ QUOTE ]
When was the last time a scrapper did it without a little extra boost to heal from a nuke or a little extra damage?

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Careful with that rhetoric; someone could lose an eye. I b'lieve there are people on the Scrapper forums who have beaten two AV's AT ONCE with no nukes and no insps.

Scrappers love that stuff.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

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Sorry if I delve into snark again here, but come on, let's drop this woe is blasters we can't do a thing crap. So we can't solo an EB or an AV, umm so what? When was the last time you saw a troller do it since the purple triangles were added? When was the last time you saw a tank do it without reds and/or blues to offset the fact that otherwise the fight will take the next 72 hours? When was the last time a scrapper did it without a little extra boost to heal from a nuke or a little extra damage?

The fact that blaster can't solo AV = blaster somehow broken is a quantum leap of logic I can't follow. And the same goes for using Insps = blaster broken. Hello, we have them for a reason. And I see zero problem or zero shame in popping 4 reds and 2 purples to drop every one of those EB's. I fight with any means I can to win, and I dare you to point out any other AT player that doesn't feel the same way.

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I don't think we need to bring soloing AVs into this at all. I don't think that's anything to do with what Sam's talking about.

As far as EBs, I've soloed most of them with my energy/energy (although I need Force of Nature for most of them, or forget it.) My MA/Regen has done all of them much more easily.

In my experience, Sam's right about what he's saying: I do have to work harder on my blaster to overcome the same things as my scrapper. I'm talking solo, here, in case that isn't clear.

The scrapper is really ridiculous, honestly. Soloing, I don't even bother to look ahead of me most of the time, just keep barreling through. If I happen to unexpectedly run into a boss or two, or an EB even, it's no big deal. I'll have plenty of time to pop Dull Pain and Instant Healing, maybe an insp or two, and keep on going. On the blaster, I always check ahead of me, because I have to. I'll probably win the fight if I'm prepared, but I do need to be prepared.

Now, to me, that makes scrappers a little boring. I like to play my scrapper for story arcs, because with less care about how it plays, I can concentrate more on the story being told. But the actual combat is a little monotonous. The care I have to take on my blaster makes it more fun in a way.

But that, obviously, is a matter of taste.


 

Posted

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Now that's total bunk. Blasters can and do solo AVs.

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AVs I can't speak about, but EBs are actually EASIER to solo than regular content by virtue of their rarity. I can always carry four purples and two or four reds and obliterate pretty much any EB, and have done so with the greatest of ease. All the Praetorians, the Kronos Titan, the Clockwork King, Babbage, Vanessa DeVore, Nemesis a few times, Nosferatu, the list goes on. Elite bosses are easy because for them you can prepare. I'm not sure about you, but I at least can't bring the same preparation down to bear on every bloody Zeus Titan when a Malta mission decides to spawn a dozen of 'em, lest I leave to buy inspirations at least half a dozen times.

[ QUOTE ]
Take every legal advantage you need and win: That's how I play in every game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill Z Bubba said it best a long time ago. Yes, it's true that Blasters can become a lot better with all the benefits of Inventions and inspirations. But then so can Scrappers, and they can get a LOT better for it, into the territory of outright broken.

This isn't a question of absolute performance. It's a question of relative performance. And the fact of the matter is that a Scrapper, a Brute or a Mastermind can take a horrible build, play like an idiot and STILL achieve performance that rivals that of a Blaster with a very careful, expensive build and played absolutely expertly. This is the AT disparity that ruins my fun with Blasters - the knowledge that I could be playing another AT and demolishing the enemies that make my Blaster quake in his boots, and do so with the greatest of ease.

When I play a Scrapper, I am filled with confidence. When I play a Blaster, I am filled with caution. That right there shouldn't be.

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You're filled with caution because there's an element of challenge. If anything, you just pointed out the problem with tanks and scrappers and masterminds..... there's little challenge and little incentive and it involves just hitting three or four attack buttons over and over until you win. Masterminds don't even need to do that. Just walk up to the boss and stand there. Yeah, it's fun to an extent, but there's little strategy involved, if any at all.

The point is that you feel caution because there's a chance you'll fail. If you don't feel caution with another character, it means that character has little to no chance of failing. Is there long-term satisfaction in playing a character like that?

Some people would say yes, and I would support them. Good for you! Play that character and have a great time! That, in no way, diminishes other characters who do have a chance of loosing though as they offer a different playstyle that's just as rewarding for other people who do like to feel a little danger.

I remember when ambushes were totally out of whack. There was a chance you'd get 10 to 20 +1 or +2 mobs coming at you. I was in Peregrine once and a stream of Malta kept coming at me. Because I didn't know they were coming and was moving, they weren't in one group but came in a stream. My blaster had to work like crazy to keep up with them, as every time I took one down, another one or two would jump over the fence. After about 15 of them, a few managed to get me. It would never have happened on my scrapper or tank. Likewise, I never would have had such a great time on my scrapper or tank.


Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break

The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens

 

Posted

It's not about whether a blaster can solo AVs or TFs
That is not indicative of the blaster's overall career

It is about the disparity between ATs

Sure, if you like how it feels to ride the rollercoaster of risk vs reward, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is- your opinion

The blaster description was written a long time ago and a lot of things have changed since then, but my opinion is that if described as an offensive juggernaut, why is my damage not double or triple other ATs? (not that I'm asking for more damage)
For what is given up in survivability, there is no corresponding factor of outright superiority which lets the blaster pull much farther ahead of a scrapper or brute

Now, the Dominator description states that with each attack one gets closer to the true sadistic nature etc..
But with so many achieving perma domination that doesn't hold true
Many felt that without permadom the AT was lacking when compared to others, hence the changes- to bring it in line with the overall feel of the AT vs others

Once a blaster reaches epic pools, many of the problems have been solved and yes, they feel quit powerful, capable of feats to turn other ATs green
But there is still that element of having to play more careful than any other AT

So let's talk about what a blaster feels like from the teens untill they reach 40

Overall, not solo vs team or good team vs bad team, but in a truly balanced situation in which all ATs should be on a level playing field


 

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why is my damage not double or triple other ATs?

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Please don't ever design my game.


 

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why is my damage not double or triple other ATs?

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So all you really want is to 1-shot even-con minions with Energy Torrent, alone, without Build Up or Aim. Where's the sarcasm font? I think I might need it for this.

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He seems to be saying that if blasters are going to be so weak elsewhere they need their damage increased otherwise give them better mitigation tools.

Just a note blasters aren't actually the damage kings, they are the ranged and aoe damage kings. So yes for an AT to give up so much for damage it should either have it or have more available mitigation.

A small built in ranged defense of about 6% or so not unlike a SOA's CTD, and or access to primary tier 3 or secondary tier 2 while mezzed would go along way towards actual balance.