You said it yourself, - Self Heals.
Might not sound like much, but in the early game You'll really notice the difference when you run into a large mob.
Of course, thats the early game, where Willpower still has low numbers, but in the later game Willpower pulls ahead.
Regen is better at absorbing big damage spikes, and since less of it is tied up in S/L resist it's somewhat better about exotic damage. It doesn't care what the damage is (except for psionic during Moment Of Glory).
*/Regen has lower baseline performance but much better peak performance (and more ways to achieve this peak) whereas */wp just has good baseline performance and not much variation.
A skilled */regen player will pretty much always survive longer than an unskilled */regen. A skilled */wp is going to survive about the same time as an unskilled */wp. An unskilled */wp will generally survive longer than an unskilled */regen. A skilled */regen will survive about as long, if not longer, than an equally skilled */wp. Of course, this assumes that the primaries for all of them are the same and that the budget for the builds is roughly similar.
editted to correct for a typo
i really want to make a /regen (as /WP seems very FotM), i just didn't want to perma-gimp myself in the long run.
There are no bad scrapper powersets, primary or secondary, and no bad scrapper powerset combinations.
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@Starflier
As a /regen I enjoy the fact that survival does require some tactics and planning on when to use the various tools.
/WP to me is as dull as ditchwater. Toggle on and away you go.
(Its the same reason my /SR sits unplayed at 50 in favour of my /regen)
Its probably the same reason that my first level 50 tank is fire/ my highest brute is /fire, and the 2nd highest brute is /dark
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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There are no bad scrapper powersets, primary or secondary, and no bad scrapper powerset combinations.
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Except */Dark.
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There are no bad scrapper powersets, primary or secondary, and no bad scrapper powerset combinations.
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Except */Dark.
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Amazing how you can be so wrong... */Dark is actually remarkably powerful.
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Amazing how you can be so wrong... */Dark is actually remarkably powerful.
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QFT. Im actually inclined to place dark above /SR when you add IOs to the mix.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
A well-built, heavily-IO'ed /dark with Tough and that +end proc in dark regeneration is crazy good.
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A skilled */regen player will pretty much always survive longer than an unskilled */regen. A skilled */wp is going to survive about the same time as an unskilled */regen. An unskilled */wp will generally survive longer than an unskilled */regen. A skilled */regen will survive about as long, if not longer, than an equally skilled */wp. Of course, this assumes that the primaries for all of them are the same and that the budget for the builds is roughly similar.
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That logic went wrong somewhere.
And I've personally never been outlasted by a anything/regen, but that's just me, I'm a crazy kat/wp.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
To me its all going to depend on what you are fighting. For avs and such it might be better for the sets with resists or defense because regeneration or click heals might not be fast enough to handle the insane damage. Now if you see critters with hella debuffs then this is were regen can pull ahead quite a bit. As for as dark I only seen them perform well in the end game during the ITF final mission. Any other time they get slaughtered by avs if there is no tanker to hold aggro. I remember going to test server to test out one of the stalker changes. We got a group together for the LRSF. This was when stalker AS could lop off 9% of AV hit points at a time. Eventhough the av didnt last 10 seconds pretty every time it was either the dark armor or regen that got killed first. While the defense sets didnt.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
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Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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That logic went wrong somewhere.
And I've personally never been outlasted by a anything/regen, but that's just me, I'm a crazy kat/wp.
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You've obviously never played with a crazy good, equally well built Kat/Regen. I routinely outlast Dark/WP by a long margin, even when they're built to the brim like myself.
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That logic went wrong somewhere.
And I've personally never been outlasted by a anything/regen, but that's just me, I'm a crazy kat/wp.
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You've obviously never played with a crazy good, equally well built Kat/Regen. I routinely outlast Dark/WP by a long margin, even when they're built to the brim like myself.
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Those two lines are referring to different things. Reread what you wrote, it literally doesn't make sense.
On the other note, Werner's on a different server :-p Where else am I going to find an equally comparable Kat/Regen? I guess no katana/regens are on my level then...
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
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That logic went wrong somewhere.
And I've personally never been outlasted by a anything/regen, but that's just me, I'm a crazy kat/wp.
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You've obviously never played with a crazy good, equally well built Kat/Regen. I routinely outlast Dark/WP by a long margin, even when they're built to the brim like myself.
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I'm not saying Regneration is a weak secondary, but I don't think it's for everybody.
I've played BS/Regen, BS/WP and BS/DA. Both my BS/DA and BS/WP got to 50 not issues and had tons of fun. My BS/Regen is still stuck at level 37 because after player her for an hour I have to log off in disgust.
I've played DM/Regen, DM/DA and DM/WP. DM/DA is obviously my favorite. I tried force myself to play my DM/Regen to 50, but by the time I got to level 46 it became about as enjoyable as dental surgery. I'm loving my DM/WP (level 44) and find her infinately more survivable than my DM/Regen.
At this point, I've just decided Regeneration simply isn't for me. Presently, I can't imagine what would ever possess me to role another one. That doesn't make it a bad set, it's simply not compatable for my playstyle.
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Those two lines are referring to different things. Reread what you wrote, it literally doesn't make sense.
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I did, and it makes perfect sense. The entire point is that */regen is a highly skill responsive set. */WP isn't. */WP performs pretty much the same whether you're incredibly good with it or mediocre. */Regen generates incredible gaps in performance depending on whether you've got the skills and timing to back it up or not. There isn't any logical flaw in the original statement.
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I've played BS/Regen, BS/WP and BS/DA. Both my BS/DA and BS/WP got to 50 not issues and had tons of fun. My BS/Regen is still stuck at level 37 because after player her for an hour I have to log off in disgust.
[/ QUOTE ] This is pretty much how it happens for me too. Dying multiple times to bosses I know the other sets could easily handle is where I have a rough time with this set. It just doesnt seem fair or right at times. I have tried much of the different build advice but the end results keep being the same. Many people here keep saying regen is so much better over all but thats just 90 seconds of time provided you dont get 2 shotted anyways. Playing on teams I have yet to see a regen outlast a WP scrapper with common IOs outside of them using instant healing.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Dont make me level and kat/regen to kick your butt Mojo...
I'm just crazy enough to do it, and I need a scrapper project after getting to that prestige milestone on Cat.
I'm thinking my dark/regen will be it though, fast effective and a very fun RP concept.
Oor maybe I'll try to earn enough to buy the softcapped defence build I just drafted out for Cat as my 2nd build. That's scarily expensive.
Desmodos:
It really is a matter of style and taste. You obviously dont find regen for you. The whole time I was levelling Kittenwhoorg (claws/SR) I felt naked to spike damage. There was no back-up heal. If I went red it was win, die or disengage. Sure there were extras I could have taken like aid-self, to help that but the bottom line but /SR and /WP for me are just not fun for me.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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That logic went wrong somewhere.
And I've personally never been outlasted by a anything/regen, but that's just me, I'm a crazy kat/wp.
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You've obviously never played with a crazy good, equally well built Kat/Regen. I routinely outlast Dark/WP by a long margin, even when they're built to the brim like myself.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying Regneration is a weak secondary, but I don't think it's for everybody.
I've played BS/Regen, BS/WP and BS/DA. Both my BS/DA and BS/WP got to 50 not issues and had tons of fun. My BS/Regen is still stuck at level 37 because after player her for an hour I have to log off in disgust.
I've played DM/Regen, DM/DA and DM/WP. DM/DA is obviously my favorite. I tried force myself to play my DM/Regen to 50, but by the time I got to level 46 it became about as enjoyable as dental surgery. I'm loving my DM/WP (level 44) and find her infinately more survivable than my DM/Regen.
At this point, I've just decided Regeneration simply isn't for me. Presently, I can't imagine what would ever possess me to role another one. That doesn't make it a bad set, it's simply not compatable for my playstyle.
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From a basic SO/generic IO slotting, I can possibly see how skilled /Regen might be better than a skilled /WP. Possibly. I'm not to sure on it though.
Add IO's to the mix, I think a skilled /WP is going to out survive an equally skilled /Regen.
I base this alot of this on ITF runs mind you.
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I base this alot of this on ITF runs mind you.
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Which disproportionately favors */WP because it's got def debuff resistance and significantly higher levels of lethal resist.
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I base this alot of this on ITF runs mind you.
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Which disproportionately favors */WP because it's got def debuff resistance and significantly higher levels of lethal resist.
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What?
Why should lethal resitance make a difference? Isn't Regnerations mitigation indescrimante?
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Ok I reread it and _Mojo_ is right and here is why.
first you say
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A skilled */wp is going to survive about the same time as an unskilled */regen.
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So A good /WP is as good a and bad /Regen then you say.
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An unskilled */wp will generally survive longer than an unskilled */regen.
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so and bad /WP will survive more then and Bad /Regen, but a good /WP will live just as long?
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A skilled */regen will survive about as long, if not longer, than an equally skilled */wp.
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so a good regen will be just as good but if not better then a good willpower.
what doesn't make sense is you just said that a a
good Willpower player=Bad regen player
Bad Willpower player >Bad regen player
Good Willpower player=or< Good regen Player
How does a good willpwer player live just as long as a bad regen player when a Bad willpower player will live longer that is why it doesn't make sense.
What I think you mean to say was a skilled */wp is going to survive about the same time as an unskilled */Wp.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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I base this alot of this on ITF runs mind you.
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Which disproportionately favors */WP because it's got def debuff resistance and significantly higher levels of lethal resist.
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What?
Why should letha resitance make a difference? Isn't Regnerations mitigation indescrimante?
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*/Regen's mitigation is indiscriminate (or, less so than normal), but */wp's isn't, which means that it gets more effect from some types than others. That's like saying that */invuln is king of the secondaries but only using s/l damage to determine it. The big difference in performance on the ITF though is */regen's lack of debuff resistance (/shakefist at Castle).
Regin is, but it is about the best case scenario for the willpower.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
i was going to make a /regen scrapper and i was looking at the numbers and i guess i am confused as why regen exists after /WP?
are self-heals comparable to the other stuff that /WP gets??
they both seem to have equal hp regen (until you stand near 2+ enemies with Rise to the Challenge on), and /WP has def and resist, although more toggles.
/regen just seems to have self-heals and a better tier 9?
other then concept reasons, where does /regen shine over /WP?