Disapointed with how players are using the MA?
By
adgramaine,
Posted on: 2009-06-04 09:17 in Mission Architect
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Come on people give credit where its due. I do not believe farms should be banned but rate them what they should be. A map full of nothing but minion only, Lt only or Boss only mobs with absolutely no story should not get a 4 star rating.
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Here's where people's goals for the MA break down. What you've stated above is an opinion, not a fact. It may be a very common opinion, but it's still not all-inclusive.
The hard truth is that not everyone plays games like this for the story. They play it for "fun", and what aspects of a game are fun is wildly subjective. There are people who think that blowing through a large outdoor map of mobs is a better time than a well-crafted story with cool-looking custom mobs, and they'll rate it as such.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
And we have another one.....*sigh*
You know what your problem is? Your problem is that you're even comparing arc ratings. If you're writing for the sake of writing a good story, you should be interested in the work you're doing and not in it gaining mass appreciation. I think it's already well established that the masses appreciate easily digestible material the less mental effort required, the better.
Don't blame people for looking after their own interests and focusing on what's fun for them, simply do the same for yourself.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I'd like to take this opportunity to throw this little tidbit out once again.
It is my opinion that the Devs are going to change the custom critter creator in a way that a person will only be able to choose custom critter powersets that are currently available to players making an original character.
So when a person picks Dual Blades as the primary, they'll be forced to choose the secondary that current players are limited to when selecting DB as the primary.
They may change the costume creator in a manner that will cycle through the appearances of the minions, lts and bosses BUT the 3 different costumes will be created in conjunction with the powersets you've chosen.
As a result the only way a person will be able to create a single, unique boss is to set that particular critter at the EB or AV level.
As AE sits now it is the perception by some that the majority of AE participants are only interested in Boss-only missions. If the Devs alter AE in the manner I described then all critters, stock and custom, would offer the same gains in xp and inf., give or take.
Now to address the issue that any particular person's story isn't getting as much exposure as they would prefer....be realistic pls.
There are probably over FIFTY THOUSAND stories available through AE. The best way to get your story known is to start your own AE teams and run through your missions.
People most likely aren't going to just stumble upon a specific story in AE. Need I remind you there are THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of stories for people to chose from.
If you want your stories to get more plays and ratings you have to take the initiative and lead AE teams using your stories. If you're not satisfied with the number of plays & ratings after a month of leading teams..then guess what..you're just going to have to keep on leading AE teams using your stories as long as it takes.
Okay.
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So when a person picks Dual Blades as the primary, they'll be forced to choose the secondary that current players are limited to when selecting DB as the primary.
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The day when custom critters with DualBlades/Devices, or MindControl/DarkMiasma combinations would no longer be possible, would be a very black day for MA in my book. I would then have to re-evaluate my opinion of the MA and justifying spending time with it crafting stories would (for me) become even more difficult given all the other vast options for entertainment, in or out of CoX.
I truly hope you're wrong in your assessment.
The other part of your post where you recommend to the OP to form teams and play their own AE missions... that I totally agree with. It does seem quite selfish to me, but indeed it's a valid and effective way to attract attention to your own stories.
It'd be much more tolerated if the Team Leader were willing to round-robin story-arcs among the team members starting with the Team Leader (naturally) and going through everyone elses' arcs.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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As AE sits now it is the perception by some that the majority of AE participants are only interested in Boss-only missions. If the Devs alter AE in the manner I described then all critters, stock and custom, would offer the same gains in xp and inf., give or take.
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There's no indication that the devs are going to do what you describe. Indeed, there are plenty of indiciations pretty much in the other direction. They are adding more power selection variety, not less.
And even if they did what you're suggesting with the primary/secondary combinations, it wouldn't result in what you're suggesting it would.
In short, this all seems silly.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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As AE sits now it is the perception by some that the majority of AE participants are only interested in Boss-only missions. If the Devs alter AE in the manner I described then all critters, stock and custom, would offer the same gains in xp and inf., give or take.
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There's no indication that the devs are going to do what you describe. Indeed, there are plenty of indiciations pretty much in the other direction. They are adding more power selection variety, not less.
And even if they did what you're suggesting with the primary/secondary combinations, it wouldn't result in what you're suggesting it would.
In short, this all seems silly.
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I agree. His assumptions about having strict limits on costume choices being made, also seems pretty silly. It would take away most of the fun some of us get in creating custom characters at all. I don't know where he's getting the idea that the devs would make the MA so completely dumbed down, but I can only guess that it's strictly from his own out of tune 'spidey senses'. Certainly not from reading anything here on the forums. At least, not that I've seen, anywhere.
As far as getting people to play your arcs, teaming for the purpose of playing your arcs (and the round robin thing) is a very good idea. If I could team without risking being mapserved many times in a mission, I would definitely consider doing that. My best alternative has been to post my missions in the Mission Architect Stories & Lore section of the forum. There are many good threads there that give tips for getting your arc played and for getting/giving reviews. It has helped me to get mine recognized. It's a slow process for sure, because there are so many thousands of arcs out there to be played (just look at the ID#s and remember that each one is/was an arc), but it does help. It also helps to, occasionally, send a broadcast message as an advertisement for your arcs like the SGs do for members. 
No AV/EBs Deal with The Devil's Pawn-207266 Slash DeMento and the Stolen Weapons-100045 Meet the Demon Spawn-151099 Feedback
One thing I'd say Vicar is that you shouldn't have taken your other arc down. Sure, there's a lot of disposable stuff in the MA. At the same time, it's better to stick it out and promote your arc on the forums or amongst some story based SGs.
I think the issue with the MA for many folks is that they want validation on their arc in the form of plays and stars. Unfortunately with such a giant glut of stuff to choose from, this can be a tough job. It's like building a website and expecting people to find it. So not only is it hard to stand out, you also have folks who play it to level quickly, or to find a super challenging arc, those who like the story, etc, etc. With all those differing playstyles, one should not expect too much unless they are going above and beyond to promote it.
I suggest building arcs for your own enjoyment and whatever happens after is just icing on the cake. 
Arc 185502: Who Killed Snow Globe? a mini mystery Put together the clues to solve the case!
Arc 22832: And Hell Hath No Fury (extreme)
Will you be the key to the Knives of Artemis' survival? or the instrument of their destruction?
Thank you all for being polite and courteous in your responses to my suggestion.
The basic idea behind my suggestion is to no longer allow players to create custom minions, custom lieutenants or custom bosses.
I suggest only being able to select primary and secondary power sets, designing costumes for minions, lts and bosses....then have the game generate the mobs within the map as the game normally does.
So no more Boss-only missions but instead mobs consisting of the power sets you've selected with the established minion-lt-boss per mob ratios as they normally occur.
The whole point of MA is to give players the ability to create custom critters and stories to use them in. Some people try to balance their custom groups to be similar in make-up to standard enemies, and set up the missions to have a decent story based on those characters.
Other people seem to just want to make custom mega-powered critters that are used in ways to kill the player as fast as possible, or when they finally make it to the maxed out EB/AV boss in the final showdown. They seem to think it's funny to hear people complain about getting killed in less than 2 minutes by playing their 'uber' mission. You can't expect there to not be a lot of idiots out there that will do stuff like that.
Then, there are the people that really don't care about story, anyway. All they want to make is a slugfest arc filled with hi-xp critters for whatever reason. They don't look for stories in any mission they play so all they're building is a mission as a reason to beat the crap out of a gazillion critters.
Personally, I've tried to make my custom critters in a way that will make them somewhat challenging, but still beatable by a wide range of people playing the missions. I also like to write a fun story that players can usually solo fairly easily. There are a lot of mission creators out there that are doing the same types of arcs that I am. They are creating a well rounded story with some very interesting custom characters.
If you spend some time reading the Stories & Lore section of the forum, you will be able to find whatever type of mission you're looking to find. There are some excellent writers and missions out there. It just takes a little digging through the dirt to find the gold.
No AV/EBs Deal with The Devil's Pawn-207266 Slash DeMento and the Stolen Weapons-100045 Meet the Demon Spawn-151099 Feedback
First of all it's not so much that I am looking for validation that I made a good arc. I simply do not see the point in putting effort into making someone that no one is going to enjoy.
It's not often I can even form a team interested in doing other people's arcs let alone my own.
As far as my taking my arc down. Well no one was playing it so I was going to do some work on it and change the name in the hopes that would draw attention. However after making a farm map with a retarded name and it getting recognition where my quality map didnt. . . . well that kind of put me off of the idea of actualy making a decent arc.
*readies fire extinguisher*
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the ratings system sucks. Everyone knows this. A single ratings system just doesn't make sense given that people want very different things from missions.
Put "SFMA" in your arc description (Story focused mission arc) and people looking for stories will find it - although maybe not as many as you would like.
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You know what your problem is? Your problem is that you're even comparing arc ratings. If you're writing for the sake of writing a good story, you should be interested in the work you're doing and not in it gaining mass appreciation. I think it's already well established that the masses appreciate easily digestible material the less mental effort required, the better.
Don't blame people for looking after their own interests and focusing on what's fun for them, simply do the same for yourself.
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Hey like others have said, if they put out an arc they don't mind if someone sends them feeback saying Boss X was too hard/easy. You have lots of typos. The missions seem repetative, any kind of comment would be welcome.
However many people simply click the 4 star option and move on. Ive ran into numerous people who have admitted to that. Im not saying everyone does it but alot do do it.
Also if those who want a farm map take the 5 mins it takes to put some kind of story to it it would not bother me. I have seen a few that were blatant farm maps that I gave a decent rating because the creator took a couple mins to flesh out an amusing story as to why you were killing the mobs.
So yes I will return to my origional statement that I like the MA but am disapointed with playerbase.
Also you said to put it up on the forums. That sounds like the kind of thing someone who was desparate for validation would do.
There are enough flame posts over various topics. I do not need to deal with the forumites and lore hounds ripping apart a story because I might have got a bit of the timeline off by a month or so.
*readies fire extinguisher*
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<QR>
the ratings system sucks. Everyone knows this. A single ratings system just doesn't make sense given that people want very different things from missions.
Put "SFMA" in your arc description (Story focused mission arc) and people looking for stories will find it - although maybe not as many as you would like.
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Thanks, I think I will try that. Im not looking for mass numbers. I could care less about tickets. Loot in this game has no meaning to me. It's not needed for pve and I m not about to bother with it for pvp when it gets changed every 2 to 4 months.
*readies fire extinguisher*
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The day when custom critters with DualBlades/Devices, or MindControl/DarkMiasma combinations would no longer be possible, would be a very black day for MA in my book. I would then have to re-evaluate my opinion of the MA and justifying spending time with it crafting stories would (for me) become even more difficult given all the other vast options for entertainment, in or out of CoX.
I truly hope you're wrong in your assessment.
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/signed
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The basic idea behind my suggestion is to no longer allow players to create custom minions, custom lieutenants or custom bosses.
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Which would pretty much kill MA, I think.
When Positron went over some of the numbers early on, if I recall correctly, over 70% of the missions created featured custom critters?
That's a lot of users to tick off.
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I suggest only being able to select primary and secondary power sets, designing costumes for minions, lts and bosses....then have the game generate the mobs within the map as the game normally does.
So no more Boss-only missions but instead mobs consisting of the power sets you've selected with the established minion-lt-boss per mob ratios as they normally occur.
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Forcing a custom group to be comprised of a minion, a lieutenant, and a boss is perhaps the least problematic aspect of your suggestion (if I understand it correctly). But it still would create issues.
Custom critters take up a lot of file space. Forcing people to add critters they don't need will negatively impact the story content of MA.
For example, I've an arc published now that'd be broken if I had to add two mobs (a lieutenant and a boss) to a group. By adding those mobs, not only would the concept of the group and the mission be undermined, the file size would go well over 100%. I wouldn't be able to make up the difference, without watering down the other group in the arc. Overall, the arc would be pretty much ruined.
Not to mention the fact that creating more challenging content should be an option for those who want to do it, right? I mean, that's part of the draw? If someone wants to make a group comprised solely of bosses to fight, why shouldn't they be able to do that?
If the devs have a problem with X behavior, they should police X behavior. Trying to fight it by hobbling the system itself isn't going to work, and it's just going to drive away the people who're using it legitimately.
You can do some tweaks to the system, to make it less attractive to those who'd abuse it, but when the tweaks start significantly restricting creativity, you're undermining the reason you introduced the system in the first place. At that point, you've gone too far.
I think your suggestion goes too far.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
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Come on people give credit where its due.
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People will give credit where they think credit is due, not where you think credit is due.
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I do not believe farms should be banned but rate them what they should be.
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No one is obligated to adopt your criteria for rating arcs. Everyone has their own criteria. Sure, sometimes that criteria is quite silly... but it's theirs and they're entitled to it.
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A map full of nothing but minion only, Lt only or Boss only mobs with absolutely no story should not get a 4 star rating.
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In your opinion. And that's about as far as that goes.
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Thats all I really ask is people start voting for what the story is, not for if it levels you the fastest.
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I vote according to how much fun I had. I've given high votes to some real awful arcs. Because they were so bad, they were funny. I laughed. A lot. That gets stars from me. Even if the author didn't intend to make something comedic.
I'm sorry, but I'm not changing how I vote into how you vote. You can rate using whatever standards you want. So can I. So can everyone else. That's how it works.
Besides, the ratings system is pants... utterly useless. Better to just circumvent it by using tags. That way, even if you only get a handful of plays, at least you know that those people were looking for what you were offering, which makes their participation all the more meaningful, doesn't it?
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
To emphasize this point: Early on in MA's release I found a map that was obviously meant to be an in-joke for an SG. It featured characters named after what I believe were the SG members and it was basically a challenge map with nothing but AV fights. There was no story to speak of.
But the fights were remarkably well-balanced. You had allies to help you and the fights escalated in difficulty as you went through, with a really brutal finale against an SS/Regen AV with a *mumble*/pain ally and one other. I managed to solo it on Relentless with a character that wasn't built for AV soloing.
I gave it 5 stars based on how much fun I had completing it.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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When Positron went over some of the numbers early on, if I recall correctly, over 70% of the missions created featured custom critters?
That's a lot of users to tick off.
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It's pretty well known that the demand for custom critters is one of the major reasons why MA was delayed for so long and pushed out of issue 13 and into an issue of it's own.
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Forcing a custom group to be comprised of a minion, a lieutenant, and a boss is perhaps the least problematic aspect of your suggestion (if I understand it correctly). But it still would create issues.
Custom critters take up a lot of file space. Forcing people to add critters they don't need will negatively impact the story content of MA.
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What if the MA was smart enough to spawn minion, lt or boss versions of a single creature based on difficulty if the required positions did not already have creatures? So no masses of boss level enemies unless the challenge level requires it.
It would help fight the farm issues and save file space.
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Come on people give credit where its due. I do not believe farms should be banned but rate them what they should be. A map full of nothing but minion only, Lt only or Boss only mobs with absolutely no story should not get a 4 star rating.
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If it is a good farm it deserves a good rating...
In fact a farm w/ story deserves a lower rating lol as it can cut down on the efficiency of farming.
A farm with a whack of easy to kill mobs that have full or even higher than normal xp, toss a helper npc or two in there... Sounds like a 4 star farm to me 
I am disappointed people keep telling me that I should only play there MA arcs because they spent so much time making up a story.
I have not read one scrap of the stories there is no draw for me there sorry if I want a story I will go read a book. I mean I have read hundreds of books and if I want a good story I freakin go read a book. When I log on to the game I want to beat up on stuff get my new shinny and move on that is fun to me.
Sorry your idea of a good arc does not even come into my realm of what I would rate as fun.
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Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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I am disappointed people keep telling me that I should only play there MA arcs because they spent so much time making up a story.
I have not read one scrap of the stories there is no draw for me there sorry if I want a story I will go read a book. I mean I have read hundreds of books and if I want a good story I freakin go read a book. When I log on to the game I want to beat up on stuff get my new shinny and move on that is fun to me.
Sorry your idea of a good arc does not even come into my realm of what I would rate as fun.
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qft, most players just want to punch things in the face. If they wan't massive depth it is available in far better places.
but punchasizing things in the face? this is a pretty good place for that.
I've seen alot of feedback about the MA ranging from its amazing to its complete BS.
For me I believe that the MA is a good thing that has been trashed by the lazy masses.
I do not object to farms in the slightest. I do not blame all of the games troubles on the farmers. I blame it on those people who constantly spam lf ae team. However when you send a tell they are only interseted in an ae farm. It gets a little ridiculous when you join an SG and team with a group of 50's from that SG and not a single one of them has a vet badge. Not even the 3 month one. I have been trying to help this group learn how to play, however at times it does try my patience because if they had played up at least part of the way they might know how to play their toons.
I also find it a bit disgruntling from a writing point of view. I had a few arcs done that I thought were good. However I could never get any outside input (other than my friends who tried it and they might be biased as well) because almost no one seems to be doing the arcs.
One of my friends and myself actually made a really good task force like story arc. I thought it was a blast. I even went so far as to recruit a few teams to do his arc because I know he was a bit saddened by the fact no one was playing it. I was hoping that if a few people would play it word of mouth might spread. . . . but it hasnt.
They all rated his arc well, I even specificly told them not to blindly rated it but to rate it as they felt it deserved it recived all 4 and 5 stars. It currently sits at 4 stars or at least it did. If you wish to check it out its called For the love of Silver, I do not recall the ID though he may have taken it down by now I do not know.
I had hoped that this might get it the recognition it needs however it hasnt. Because I have noticed that many farm maps get rankings of 4 stars. I know one that has upwards of 600 votes and has a 4 star ranking. The guy didnt even bother to put in ANY kind of story. Yet it has a 4 star rating from hundreds of people.
This has actually made me do an experiment. I ripped off the idea of that particular farm, made some minor alterations put it up and ran a couple lowbies through it and told them the arc id. . . . . I started getting votes
So my own arc that I had spent hours on writing and trying to come up with interesting things to do. The arc that I spend several thousand tickets on just so I could unlock everything. Is was sitting at 14 votes and a 4 star rating after being up for weeks. I have since pulled the arc down since I see no reason to beat my head against a brick wall.
The arc that I spent about 5 to 10 mins on after a single evening had 30 votes. . . . and a 4 star rating.
Come on people give credit where its due. I do not believe farms should be banned but rate them what they should be. A map full of nothing but minion only, Lt only or Boss only mobs with absolutely no story should not get a 4 star rating.
Thats all I really ask is people start voting for what the story is, not for if it levels you the fastest.
*readies fire extinguisher*