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Ehh, whatever. Knockback is at worst a minor irritation under certain circumstances, and I say that as a dedicated scrapper player. When a blaster or defender knocks an enemy away, why would I chase it down? Someone else is obviously trying to kill that mob, I will find another one. Also, a mob flying through the air and having to get up and run back is a mob that isn't chewing on someone. I respect knockback as a way for otherwise underdefended ATs to get some much-needed survivability.
It'd be different if mobs linked in this game like they do in others, where an aggro mob running through a different spawn picked up that new spawn too, but it isn't like that. What happens is usually someone knocks a mob back into the next spawn, and someone else fires and AoE or runs in to finish it off, thus aggroing the next spawn. As a scrapper, this is not a detriment to me, it's a bonus!
I tend not to play with NRG toons. But that is my choice. KB is annoying at best for me. Yes even my blaster would rather the power balance points your attack have that go into KB go into other more useful effects. As a scrapper, i find playing "run after the last guy into the next group before the blasters/trollers have recovered" is an annoying game. I don't need them to live, but i know they want some fun too. On my blaster, playing "run after <that guy> into the middle of all the enemy ranged AOE's" to be equally annoying. KB for me has always been a game of chasing MOBs when i could be killing more. Now don't get me wrong.... a well placed gale, or and knock down power is more than welcome, its the over abundance that NRG brings i find to be too much. Then again I am a team player, and I want everyone to get some kills, not just the scrappers.
If your blaster is playing "run after that guy into the middle of an enemy" I would definitely pick a different powerset.
some people will complain about anything. That kin was probably sucking at their own job and wanted to harass you since they were probably picked on before. I love my energy blaster and as long as i keep the tank happy and blast um towards him and not away usually mishes go fine.
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I've played my nrg blaster for awhile now. And never had a knockback complaint until today. I did the usual thing, hovered above while using aoe's, if I knocked a single target out of the pack I'd kill it. A kin on the team complained the whole mission until I nova'd a pack at about half health, and even though they all died they freaked out about scattering and quit.
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The kin you were teaming with sucked, don't play with them any more. KB whiners are wienies...they aren't even good to play with on a PuG.
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The other annoying part about KB is that not everyone pays attention and you'll get a mob that gets KBed near another pack and someone runs over to kill it, grabs the other pack and then all hell breaks loose.
[/ QUOTE ] I love it when that happens. I find chaos enjoyable.
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Yep, that's what I call fun times. A herd and steamroll destroy team gets boring quick. Guess I've been here long enough that I'm never in a race to get to 50 anymore. A team being "perfectly efficient" so I get the best xp/min possible is the last concern I have.
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A little chaos is fun every once in awhile, but if it happens multiple times and causes issues, then it gets annoying.
How did we stay on topic for 6 pages? 
Scrapperlock in the blaster forums!
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
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Scrapperlock in the blaster forums!
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We stayed on topic? I'm sure we deviated from the primary target at least once. I know I was guilty of doing so.
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...
Conversely, on the Controlled KB front, I've played with Sonic/ Defenders who were excellent about using Shockwave to knock spawns into a wall or corner to pile them up, PB's who were careful to NOT use Solar Flare in the middle of large spawns, and Herdicane'ers/Repulsion Field'ers who did a great job of piling mobs up together.
So:
Uncontrolled KB==suckage.
Controlled KB == good times
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This.
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I've played my nrg blaster for awhile now. And never had a knockback complaint until today. I did the usual thing, hovered above while using aoe's, if I knocked a single target out of the pack I'd kill it. A kin on the team complained the whole mission until I nova'd a pack at about half health, and even though they all died they freaked out about scattering and quit.
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The kin you were teaming with sucked, don't play with them any more. KB whiners are wienies...they aren't even good to play with on a PuG.
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You should take into account that kin's powers like transfernce, transfusion and FS, have different mechanics than regular damage powers. While hit check works the same way for both - at the beginning of power activation, transfer of heals, endurance and damage buffs happens when power goes off. If during of activation time target(s) was/were blown away, then power is still going to hit target, but transfer won't happen.
Didn't expect this many responses, heh, I stopped checking the thread. But yeah, there really wasn't much for me to do to stop the knockback anymore. It was an outdoor mission, I was hovering directly above them and waiting about five seconds, hitting BU+aim and bombing all of the enemies from above with my two aoe's.
I love my knockback on most teams, because I usually take odd teams to task forces and stuff. My friend and I usually split up when grouping together and solo different parts of the mission. Without it I would probably be dead a lot more than I am now, never expected to run into a person who literally wanted me to not attack though. heh.
Speaking as a KB-wanting blaster, I've already given up on using any form of KB attack and even gave up leveling my ene/ene blaster because of all the complaints (some of which already reach well beyond the profanity filter).
Take for example when a troller is about to get hit by an LT and I KB him away, only to find out a scrapper is about to save the same troller's hide in the process...
...and then I get the negative responses?
I would REALLY like to toss back some of the insults I've gotten over my choice of powersets back at you. You people know who you are...
I don't complain if someone KBs a critter away from one of my squishies, just gives me some room to shut down or kill it.
I am a bit less tolerant of KB when on my Tanks (for obvious reasons), but I rarely complain (it generally has to be really bad) since I know from leveling 2 PBs to 50 that the user thereof cannot control WHEN KB will occur unless using certain powers (Tornado, Hurricane, etc.). Generally I will make one request to aim for walls, and will pull mobs to one whenever practical (not all maps allow it) . If you want to punt away a Boss and KB-juggle him, go for it, one less critter for me to worry about out of the pile beating on me.
Where I get irritated is when someone is using a power such as Hurricane or Repel by turning it on and then jumping into the middle of the pile I just accumulated, thereby negating 50% (roughly) of my protection (either via defense, regen, or self-heal) as well as blowing the mobs to the four corners which then requires I round them all up again to keep them from pouncing on the squishies.
Other than that I really don't have issues with KB, although if for some reason I cannot find a wall or corner to pull to it can get ugly if the KB is not aimed wisely.
Gale doesn't help with herding?
I love intelligent uses of knockback, "Corner the group so it's in a pile" "push that straggler back in" etc. and I use my claws/SR scrappers shockwave to buy a dying tank a few moments to get patched up. So anyone who says "GBLURGHGHGHGH I HATE KB HATE HATE HATE" without any context is instantly viewed as dumb in my book.
And I love using it solo just for laughs and chaos.
But it's still annoying to have a slap happy energy blaster or illusion controller's idiotic pets sling high damage ranged enemies outside of their controlled group so they can pick off everyone. but then again... the same could be said about misuse of any powers.
Like rad defenders who run AWAY from the group when low on health to heal themselves selfishly, controllers who just mash their buttons without properly timing things, etc.
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Like rad defenders who run AWAY from the group when low on health to heal themselves selfishly, controllers who just mash their buttons without properly timing things, etc.
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I am fine with defs and blasters stepping out of line of site to heal up......what scares the hell out of me is when the rad leaves on toggle debuffs and watches the anchor run off to aggro the rest of the map.
By all means rest lol
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One of my bigger pet peeves (I have many)
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First problem... way to high strung if you have many pet peeves in a game.
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When I invite someone to a team, it is assumed that that player is competent
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2nd mistake. never assume anything. People from 5 y/o to 95 play this game, new player or 5 year vet, people with great reflexs and those who forget where the keyboard is. Its a big enough job to take of yourself without micromanaging others.
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If I invite a Tanker, I assume that s/he's going to be capable of getting all but a small amount of the aggro and staying alive through it without much help. I don't assume that the Tanker is going to be lacking half of the powers from his primary, have every power in his secondary, and need help surviving being attacked my more than 3 enemies because he wants to be a Scrapper in Tanker's clothing.
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Why not? Doesn't a well seasoned player like yourself know how to highlight a toon, right click, and see the powers selected? Even if a person has the "perfect" min/max build doesn't mean they know how to play; or how to play "your" way.
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If I invite a Scrapper, I assume that s/he's going to capable of dealing damage and not needing much help staying alive. I don't assume that the Scrapper is going to need the constant attention of every support toon on the team just to get out of a group alive.
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Great after reading these last two my I "assume" that if my defender on your team won't have to waste my time buffing/healing the tanks and scrappers leaving me more time to not use my energy blasts.
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If I invite a Blaster, I assume that s/he's going to be able to throw out enough damage to speed the group along. I don't assume that the Blaster will slow down the group's speed because s/he wants to see all of the mobs scattered because it makes him feel more powerful.
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Is it ok to slow down the group with a */Dev blaster setting traps, or are your scrappers in too much of a hurry to allow the Dev Blaster set up time?
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Anyone that has a playstyle that actually inhibits team effectiveness is inhibiting my enjoyment of the game.
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Hey that's why I pay and play for your enjoyment. You can thank me later *wink*.
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When you join a team, there is a certain assumed level of contribution. If you're not going to meet that level of contribution, whether by being a Tanker without a taunt aura or shields, a Scrapper without mez protection, or a support toon that doesn't have or doesn't use those support powers, let me know before I invite you.
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Do you go into a big speech before you start each and every team? If not how am I to know what "level" that "you" assume I have brought to the table? Should I explaign that my toon is poor and I have only SO's and no purples?
Judging from your rant, I guess you don't like concept toons. People taking a power for (shock) because they just want it.
You don't have a right to control others. It seems that the only common problem with all those bad players is that you "assumed" something.
But hey people telling other people how to play their toon is one of my pet peeves. I just assume people aren't [censored].
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Judging from your rant, I guess you don't like concept toons. People taking a power for (shock) because they just want it.
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Actually, I've got no problem with concept toons as long as they're actually effective. If your concept is "useless Tanker" or some variant thereof (because you're not taking any of your shields and want to live without mez protection), that's you're choice, but I'm not obligated to have you on my team.
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You don't have a right to control others. It seems that the only common problem with all those bad players is that you "assumed" something.
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I may not have the right, as you put it, to control the people on my team, but I do have the right to kick you off of my team because you're less effective than you should be. You're there because I invited you. If you don't like it, don't join my team or go and form your own. If you want to purposefully nerf yourself or play in a manner less than competent, do it on someone else's time. You've got no more right to be on my team than I do of forcing you to act in a certain way though. Interesting, I can enforce my decision moreso than you can.
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But hey people telling other people how to play their toon is one of my pet peeves. I just assume people aren't [censored].
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So it's bad to assume that people are actually competent but it's good to assume that they're whatever got edited out (it could be a number of things but I'm going to assume that it's something concerning rudeness)? I'm willing to give people a certain amount of leeway, especially if they're demonstrably new, but I'm not going to let someone who isn't pulling their own weight because of concept decisions (petless Mastermind, all passive tank) stay on the team and get experience they're not even earning. I'm well within my right as a team leader (and most people would actually agree that I'm even compelled to do so because I'm a team leader) to get you off my team for not doing enough.
Self-nerfed characters rank down there with afk leechers imo, if only being slightly better because they're actually trying.
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One of my bigger pet peeves (I have many)
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First problem... way to high strung if you have many pet peeves in a game.
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When I invite someone to a team, it is assumed that that player is competent
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2nd mistake. never assume anything. People from 5 y/o to 95 play this game, new player or 5 year vet, people with great reflexs and those who forget where the keyboard is. Its a big enough job to take of yourself without micromanaging others.
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If I invite a Tanker, I assume that s/he's going to be capable of getting all but a small amount of the aggro and staying alive through it without much help. I don't assume that the Tanker is going to be lacking half of the powers from his primary, have every power in his secondary, and need help surviving being attacked my more than 3 enemies because he wants to be a Scrapper in Tanker's clothing.
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Why not? Doesn't a well seasoned player like yourself know how to highlight a toon, right click, and see the powers selected? Even if a person has the "perfect" min/max build doesn't mean they know how to play; or how to play "your" way.
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If I invite a Scrapper, I assume that s/he's going to capable of dealing damage and not needing much help staying alive. I don't assume that the Scrapper is going to need the constant attention of every support toon on the team just to get out of a group alive.
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Great after reading these last two my I "assume" that if my defender on your team won't have to waste my time buffing/healing the tanks and scrappers leaving me more time to not use my energy blasts.
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If I invite a Blaster, I assume that s/he's going to be able to throw out enough damage to speed the group along. I don't assume that the Blaster will slow down the group's speed because s/he wants to see all of the mobs scattered because it makes him feel more powerful.
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Is it ok to slow down the group with a */Dev blaster setting traps, or are your scrappers in too much of a hurry to allow the Dev Blaster set up time?
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Anyone that has a playstyle that actually inhibits team effectiveness is inhibiting my enjoyment of the game.
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Hey that's why I pay and play for your enjoyment. You can thank me later *wink*.
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When you join a team, there is a certain assumed level of contribution. If you're not going to meet that level of contribution, whether by being a Tanker without a taunt aura or shields, a Scrapper without mez protection, or a support toon that doesn't have or doesn't use those support powers, let me know before I invite you.
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Do you go into a big speech before you start each and every team? If not how am I to know what "level" that "you" assume I have brought to the table? Should I explaign that my toon is poor and I have only SO's and no purples?
Judging from your rant, I guess you don't like concept toons. People taking a power for (shock) because they just want it.
You don't have a right to control others. It seems that the only common problem with all those bad players is that you "assumed" something.
But hey people telling other people how to play their toon is one of my pet peeves. I just assume people aren't [censored].
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You have every right to gimp yourself all you want, but none to expect others to carry you when you do
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You have every right to gimp yourself all you want, but none to expect others to carry you when you do
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QFT, hit the nail on the head with a sledge.
The main problem is that every other Blaster AT is either stronger than Energy or less annoying, and by less I mean, doesn't knock back mobs with every move. No one is telling you to stay with the team, but to be more EFFECTIVE, and less troublesome, big groups tend to like tight deathballs of mobs. This is why scrappers don't have knockback(MA excluded) and rather knockdown. The devs made a pure solo AT with energy, unfortunately they suited for flashy over useful. Its nice to know you can knock back anything, but that doesn't stop the other blaster AT's from performing just as well.
Wendy you need to use some objectivity, and realize nothing is perfect. Yes you can kill things with Enrg, but its a bit annoying having everything scattered when other AT's focus on Debuff anchors and melee aoe. Of course no one blames the devs in the matter, the whole "devs are gods and infallible" gag, has run its course. They make mistakes, hopefully they see this and make KB, KD.
Secondly, I need to see how alot of you players take on mobs. Because as a lvl 50 Ar/Dev, I NEVER have time to set any mines. And I run on 6-8 man teams. There are two truths in CoX, a huge portion of the populous dislikes Energy blasters and Devices suck. But both are great for Soloing....something the game implements badly.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
Just don't use Torrent or use it to knock stuff into corners. Or you could fire back to the Kins to stop killing everything before your nuke can activate.
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator