Smite is weak? Wha...?
-Hesh
38 FF/Sonic Def
35 Ill/Storm
35 DM/Regen
1 pan of fresh brownies/gallon of milk
Whats realy nice is Shadow Maul and Sands of Mu together in the chain. I just did it on strikebuster badge mish and caught 6 Dock workers in the mayhem...Aaaaaahhhhh the beauty of all those orange numbers
I hate all this terrorist business. I used to love the days when you could look at an unattended bag on a train or bus and think to yourself.... I'm going to take that.
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Smite is weak? Wha...?
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It's not so much weak, as it's small attack. Moderate damage, if I remember correctly. It's fast-recharging, of course, which makes up for it, but what I noticed the most was how much harder the set hit up-front, at which Smite isn't actually that good. Syphon Life is, off memory, around 50% stronger.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Smite is weak? Wha...?
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It's not so much weak, as it's small attack. Moderate damage, if I remember correctly. It's fast-recharging, of course, which makes up for it, but what I noticed the most was how much harder the set hit up-front, at which Smite isn't actually that good. Syphon Life is, off memory, around 50% stronger.
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Siphon Life has a base damage scale of 2.058. Smite has a base damage scale of 1.386. Siphon Life does 48.48% more damage than Smite does. However (and a big however), Siphon Life animates in 2.112 seconds, and Smite animates in 1.188 seconds. Siphon Life takes 77.77% longer to animate, demonstrating that it's actually worse for dealing damage over the long run.
Either way, the I13 improvements definitely made DM/* a much more entertaining set to play. Siphon Life is actually useful, and you don't have to wait 10 seconds for Midnight Grasp to actually kill something. The extension of melee range hasn't really changed Shadow Maul much for me, but that's mainly because I was already getting 5 targets every time I used it.
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Siphon Life has a base damage scale of 2.058. Smite has a base damage scale of 1.386. Siphon Life does 48.48% more damage than Smite does. However (and a big however), Siphon Life animates in 2.112 seconds, and Smite animates in 1.188 seconds. Siphon Life takes 77.77% longer to animate, demonstrating that it's actually worse for dealing damage over the long run.
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Damage over the long run wasn't really what I was interested in, however, as that's very hard to "see." Statistically speaking, and maybe if I'd specifically looked for it I would have seen it, Smite might be better. After all, people were making "buzzsaw" builds with nothing but Smite and Shadow Punch. DPS isn't something that makes me go "WOW!" though. Flicking my wrist and seeing a full-health enemy go down to a sliver of health with a power I'd regarded as crappy, however, leaves a lasting impression.
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Either way, the I13 improvements definitely made DM/* a much more entertaining set to play. Siphon Life is actually useful, and you don't have to wait 10 seconds for Midnight Grasp to actually kill something. The extension of melee range hasn't really changed Shadow Maul much for me, but that's mainly because I was already getting 5 targets every time I used it.
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The changes have helped SO MUCH, I will agree. I'm not a fan of DPS, as even if a set is effective overall, it's boring to watch. And that's exactly what Dark Melee used to be - an effective set that was, sadly, very boring to sit and pound on things with. Now, a flick of the wrist, a wave of the hand, a swing of the arm and STUFF DROPS DEAD! What more could a man ask for? 
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Siphon life is indeed sweet, but smite was and still is the set-defining attack.
Dark Melee is also great on a stalker. MG from hidden is a one shot on a minion. Siphon Life is an awesome spot for the Kinetic Combat KD proc. You do that bicep curl and it appears to lift enemy right off the ground and drop him on his behind. That is power.
-Largo
Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian
Welcome to the dark side 
But yes, Dark Melee is much improved. I liked it before, but it did seem to have steep learning curve for very subtle workings. Today it's easier to see what Dark Melee is actually doing.
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Holy moly I just got Midnight Grasp and unenhanced does already a lot of damage lol.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
<3 DM
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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<3 DM
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Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
I've been playing a DM/SD lately. Fully saturated Soul Drain + Shield Charge is just too awesome.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
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<3 DM
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QFT.
With over 180 levels in DM, I was kind of an addict before the changes. After? Well, I'll get around to my goal of 50s in all the other ATs some year. There is always another DM idea to distract me.
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I've been playing a DM/SD lately. Fully saturated Soul Drain + Shield Charge is just too awesome.
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Yes that *is* really awesome. You can self cap yourself for damage on shield charge that way. (I am pretty sure its cap is lower) even reach over the cap for it. But have no fear. For the next 27 seconds you still have that massive damage boost to melt bosses with.
My DM/SD has made me less than thrilled about about so many of my other Melee Toons.
The damage on my Elec/EA stalker feels pathetic to anemic even with hide and crits. Survivability isn't even in the same league. The survivability of my soft capped Spines/SR with aid self feels low compared to 2200 HP Shield defense monster with tough and slotted resists in True Grit and Deflection.
Just about the *only* thing the build doesn't have is 10-16 target AoE's outside of shield charge. (which is already pretty wicked) But I plan on making an alt of it into a SD/SS/Pyre to take care of that.
But on the OP's topic. DM is amazing now, even with shadow Maul + shield charge I do "Okay" for AoE damage If I'm solo.
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<3 DM
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This
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I concur.
Got any sample builds?
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Got any sample builds?
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I have one, but it's likely a build most people wouldn't like anyway. No Stamina and no Set Inventions and all that, which ought to make it uninteresting to most.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm at work and can't give exact numbers, but a few things to keep in mind when relating the power levels of smite and siphon life:
1. Siphon Life provides a heal (duh)
2. Siphon Life is all negative energy damage! Since it is much less resisted than smashing, this puts it a little closer to shadow punch's dps, I would assume.
Since it hadn't been mentioned, I thought it would be of use to a few people browsing the forums
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<3 DM
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This
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I concur.
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Yes, and DM is sweet for stalkers, too.
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Touch of Fear and Dark Consumption haven't changed, but they were good enough even before.
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The power is good for what it does, but every time I use Dark Consumption or Consume I feel cheated knowing someone out there has Power Sink, Energy Drain, or Energy Absorption.
And Heaven help you if you want to do some consumption if you are not a Scrapper. The recharge of all the drains in an Ancillary pool are doubled. So the autohit base-60s drains go to 120s (not bad, even still), but the base-180 drains go to 360s. Ouch. Are the to-hit check and damage really worth it?
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
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damage really worth it?
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After a good Soul Drain I have had mine hit for over 100 pts against +2s. It isnt great damage especially on such a long recharge but the sound and animation rock IMO
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damage really worth it?
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After a good Soul Drain I have had mine hit for over 100 pts against +2s. It isnt great damage especially on such a long recharge but the sound and animation rock IMO
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Agreed on the Sound and Animation. I actually like both the Soul Drain and Dark Consumption (which I put in company with my favorite animation in the game... Katana's Assassin's Blade... that is just sexy). Don't get me wrong, I love the power. I just like the utility of it more than the damage. I applaud those who can get more use of the damage it provides.
Fair enough on the damage part, as well. I have seen some impressive numbers with the power fully buffed (Soul Drain, Against All Odds, Fulcrum Shift... my DM/Shield duoed with my fiancee's Kin/Dark), but to still have it on that sort of timer and to require that sort of buffing for a base-180s power seems meh. On teams where you can get enough recharge, it and Soul Drain can be borderline serviceable for AoE (especially Soul Drain, which is base-120s and a better range).
I am just wondering would base-120 (slottable down to 60) really hurt anyone or throw some chart grossly out of whack? The Ancillary versions would then be 240 (slottable down to 120). I would not mind paying the cost of the other drains for this recharge as well. If there is one good thing about it and Consume, it is that they are extremely cheap.
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
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Are the to-hit check and damage really worth it?
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Personally, I've always felt that the fact that it does damage is balanced by the fact that it has to hit. I personally feel that Castle should have reduced the recharge time when he did the rest of the DM fixes, but, eh, I'm happy with where it is now. That doesn't mean I couldn't be happier though.
I hadn't played Dark Melee in a long time. Not since I5 or thereabout. Still, I remembered it pretty vividly, remembered how weak it was and how much I struggled for damage. Oh, sure, the typically resistant enemies like Freakshow Tanks melted in the face of unresisted dark damage, but by and large the set was weak. Shadow Maul was good, but even Midnight Grasp wasn't all that impressive (that I could notice), Dark Punch and Smite were good but weak, and Syphon Life was a pathetic waste of endurance which neither healed me well nor did much of any damage. On the off chance I could get a good amount of enemies in range of Soul Drain, it was all good, but the cases where this was possible were exceedingly rare.
Cue four years later. I wanted to play my Dark/Dark Scrapper before I think I12, but all the Dark Melee changes made me wait, and then subsequently forget all about it. But I picked him back up yesterday and I was blown away. I mean literally. It felt like a great wind was blowing out of my screen like I was staring into a jet engine. I expected the set to be better, but the transformation was just... AMAZING!
Well, Smite and Dark Punch are still weak, but that's their goal in life, so it's understandable. But Shadow Maul is... A LOT better. Going from 5 to 7 feet cone length means that I'm routinely catching two-three people with it without even looking. Before I couldn't only ever catch two, and even then if one was giving the other a soft hug on the back. Now when I start swinging them fists, it's like "Woah!" Syphon Life also blew me away. I mean seriously. I'd switched this power's slotting from heal to damage some time before, desperately grasping for another damaging attack, and it had fallen flat. No longer so, as Syphon Life now deals almost as much damage as Shadow Maul AND for a fraction of the animation time. It still doesn't heal much, but eh. That's what Dark Regeneration is for.
I was really amazed at Midnight Grasp, however. No longer the asthmatic dotdotdot that never seemed to do anything, a grasp hurts SERIOUSLY BAD. Which is good. In fact, where before I had to essentially pummel everything to death with hit after hit after hit, now I can Grasp -> Syphon -> PunchPunchPunch and actually take a fairly seizable chunk out of bosses just from that. Yikes! Soul Drain also warms my heart. Gone are the days when I wouldn't use it time after time after time because I could catch "barely" three people with it. These days, I use it all the time, even on a single enemy, because it still gives a very serious buff. In fact, I don't sweat not hitting 15 people. The power is good in most situations. And with that serious damage boost that lasts, all the other attacks have gone up in damage, as well.
Touch of Fear and Dark Consumption haven't changed, but they were good enough even before.
I'm strikingly amazed at what has become of Dark Melee now. I'm going to have so much fun with this!