CoX, Computer Virus and the safety of my computer

If this game gave viruses to computers, the developers would have been sued and the game would have been shut down.

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As in, you're more likely to win the lottery, get struck by lightning, and find your long-lost half sister in the same day before it happens randomly like that.

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Unless you are hooking up to the college's Dorm network.

>.>

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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

Because *somebody* has to post it...

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060513

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"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."

I'd imagine that your ex(?) has heard horror stories about WoW users getting viruses and key-loggers.

Whe s/he needs to understand is that those stories happen because people are A) downloading cheating programs or B) downloading add-ons that make the game do special stuff like post your auctions and change the way your screen is organized. The person gets malware installed along with, or instead of, the software they expected to get.

The key thing to understand is that it required that someone knowingly go out to the internet, download a program that modified the game in some fashion (or falsely claimed to modify it), and then run that program. It is NOT something that just happens by virtue of running the game client software.

You can play City of Heroes or WoW or any other brand-name online game as much as you want and be perfectly safe by simply never trying to download and run any "third party" programs designed to modify the game.

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The only problem vis-a-vis virii and MMOs that I have found so far was the patch downloader for one specific BIG name MMO. It seemed that each time a patch was necessary, my main box would end up with some new (and usually the same) critters malwaring around. BUT that was because the patching was being done outside of the game engine, and I have never had anything attach itself to my PC because of CoX. And I run with only the router firewall enabled (no Windows or 3rd party firewalls).

[/ QUOTE ]If you mean the one I think you mean (the 800-pound gorilla, if you will), I know exactly what you mean. I installed the trial for that one, and because of the way the patching process works, it completely baked my computer. Corrupted a couple Windows files, and I had to reinstall my computer from scratch.

CoX? No problems whatsoever.

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Apostrophe guidelines.

No to throw credentials around, but I'm an information security professional (I know, I know "you must be a devil with the ladies"), and, while nothing is 100% risk free, I'd say that CoX is about as risk free as you can get. The forums actually would present more, although still very limited, risk than the game itself.

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Heck don't visit the FOX new site. That site game my hubby a virus that took him 2 days to get rid of. It blocked sites that had ways to get rid of it. Thankfully we have 4 computers to use.

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Pinnacle-Pale Spectre 50 Kat/Regen/Dark Scrapper
Spectre of the Gun 50 Thugs/Dark/Soul Mastery MM
MA Story Spectre of the Gun's Search" ID #352424
Spectral Darque 50 Dark/Dark Scrapper

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No to throw credentials around, but I'm an information security professional (I know, I know "you must be a devil with the ladies"), and, while nothing is 100% risk free, I'd say that CoX is about as risk free as you can get. The forums actually would present more, although still very limited, risk than the game itself.

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Are you saying you're giving me a virus right now!!??

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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

I do find it funny that my anti-virus program, Kaspersky, keeps complaining that CoH is showing "key logger"-like behavior when I'm playing... although it does mark it as "low risk".

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Okay, is there the POSSIBLITY that you could get a system compromised SOLELY from playing CoH?

In short? YES.

Is it LIKELY?

In short? NO.

First, a machine belonging to someone at Pagagon would have to be compromised.

Second, it'd have to be compromised in such a way that the attacker could use it to "leapfrog" to a machine used to alter the code used for the game.

Third, the attacker would have to come in, bypassing network security restrictions, at a given time when the compromised person was in a position to make the "work" machines vulnerable.

Fourth, they'd have to modify the game code in such a way as to be non-obvious and to completely miss cursory code checks and bypass automated scanning of the code, without breaking something horrendously.

Fifth, this code would have to get by Q&A before being implemented in a patch.

Sixth, likely this code would be run across a system with a virus scanner on it without tripping the virus scan.

Seventh, the code would then be propagated by the updater to everyone, which, depending on AV solution used, could immediately begin throwing virus notices.

Eighth, it would then touch off another round of Q&A and getting AV vendors involved, to determine that it's a false positive.

There's probably several more steps involved. But I'm kinda muzzy-headed right now and the generic things I've outlined so far should give you an idea of what you're dealing with.

There's no such thing as "risk free". Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something.

HOWEVER, the likelihood of acquiring a virus through the game is so low as to be virtually nonexistant.

The worst you're likely to see is the aforementioned "false positive", where an AV scanner mistakenly identifies harmless code as a threat. This has happened once or twice in the last year. Usually, at worst, it takes a couple days for the AV vendors to figure out that their product is at fault and correct it.

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Unless some one hacks the game and include a virus in the auto updated... And the developers completely miss it. And it goes through the test servers and no one notices anything, then it goes live and the virus is downloaded through the update....

You know, I was going to right out this thing of , if such and such events happen then it could, theoretically be possible. But as I write this, thinking the the number of things that would have to happen for a virus to get packed into that game.. No it's not possible.

Also don't donwload unknown materials from the boards and youll be fine.

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"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker

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Macs are not magically immune to viruses.

[/ QUOTE ]I can't quote this hard enough. It's really annoyed me with the recent PC vs. Mac ads where someone asks for a virus-free computer and are given no option but the Mac. Grah! Mac does not mean virus free! PC does not mean virus-ridden! >



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If said person is running Mac OS X, then he's as safe as one could get from viruses. Its probably THE most secure OS out there.

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Because *somebody* has to post it...

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060513

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This is why I hate CAD:

/B^U Words words words words stupid joke words words words joke explained for the idiots words words words not funny stuff here words words words /B^U

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

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Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage

Security through obscurity isn't security. It's wishful thinking.

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Security through obscurity isn't security. It's wishful thinking.

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It's not obscurity that makes a Mac less vulnerable to viruses. It's the fact that it uses a completely different kind of base system for computing that PC written viruses cannot navigate through.

99.99999% of viruses are written on PCs for PCs and therefor can only affect PCs.

Find a hacker anywhere that uses a Mac. I rest my case.

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Security through obscurity isn't security. It's wishful thinking.

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It's not obscurity that makes a Mac less vulnerable to viruses. It's the fact that it uses a completely different kind of base system for computing that PC written viruses cannot navigate through.

99.99999% of viruses are written on PCs for PCs and therefor can only affect PCs.

Find a hacker anywhere that uses a Mac. I rest my case.



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Not only find a hacker that uses a Mac, but find one that's successfully put a virus on OS X. It hasnt been done....yet. There are 0 active viruses currently infecting OS X users.

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I will reiterate one last time; this is not because of any inherent security feature, this is because no one uses them. If the market shares were reversed, there would be no PC viruses.

<and yes, I understand that the OS architectures and permission structures are different and the viruses would not be the same, but this does not change the point.>

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I will reiterate one last time; this is not because of any inherent security feature, this is because no one uses them. If the market shares were reversed, there would be no PC viruses.

<and yes, I understand that the OS architectures and permission structures are different and the viruses would not be the same, but this does not change the point.>

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Obviously many people do use them though, just not malicious hackers who want to mess up people's systems just for the fun of doing it.

I own both a Mac and a PC and also use both types of computers at work. I'm willing to bet the majority of computers used to render graphics for this game are Mac. The majority of CGI movies are made on Macs. Pixar uses Macs exclusively.)

So, just saying that "no one uses them" is quite an overstatement.

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I will reiterate one last time; this is not because of any inherent security feature, this is because no one uses them. If the market shares were reversed, there would be no PC viruses.

<and yes, I understand that the OS architectures and permission structures are different and the viruses would not be the same, but this does not change the point.>

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Obviously many people do use them though, just not malicious hackers who want to mess up people's systems just for the fun of doing it.

I own both a Mac and a PC and also use both types of computers at work. I'm willing to bet the majority of computers used to render graphics for this game are Mac. The majority of CGI movies are made on Macs. Pixar uses Macs exclusively.)

So, just saying that "no one uses them" is quite an overstatement.



[/ QUOTE ]Not really. The fact is, Windows dwarfs the Mac marketshare. Because of that, there are many more computer illiterate (ie: easy targets) using Windows, especially people who will just buy a prefab computer from a store, which aside from notebooks will invariably have Windows installed. With a huge pool of soft targets, the devastation of any individual virus is much larger than if someone tried to write a Mac virus.

I'm no security professional, so I'm not going to debate the inherent security measures of Windows vs. Mac. With so much of the work of hacking being social engineering, computer literate vs. illiterate has more of an effect on computer security than any AV software you can possibly install.

And, while Macs are sometimes sen as the "graphics-generating machines", the truth is that the professional level software used to create those graphics (Adobe graphics suite, Maya, 3DS MAX) are available for all major operating systems, and the only limiting factor is the hardware, not your operating system. And modern Macs have nearly identical hardware to PCs, so the difference is negligible.

And for large-scale 3D productions, it isn't even a single computer which is used to create the animations. The studio will have a render farm to run the long process of rendering the video. For example, Pixar's Render Farm doesn't exactly look like a bunch of Macs, eh?
(I've also seen studios with a program to steal idle processes from computers on the network much like Folding @ Home)

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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

Never heard of a problem, in fact if you do run into a virus, trojan, or any other computer problem as a result of other online activities or otherwise there are lots of helpful people here willing to help you find a solution.

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The problem is, even your terminology isn't correct.

"PC viruses"

A Mac IS a PC. It's a personal computer.
What's more, it's an x86 Personal Computer. Same platform as a "PC".

YES, the OS is a *nix-based OS. That, in and of itself doesn't make it proof against viruses. It makes them proof against viruses targeted towards the Windows OS.

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99.99999% of viruses are written on PCs for PCs and therefor can only affect PCs.

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Again, this is relying on obscurity. Which is NOT "security".

The reason most of the viruses are targeted towards Windows PCs is because it's the most pervasive platform and has been studied extensively. If a virus writer wants maximum propagation, they go after Windows systems. Not because Windows systems are so much horrendously less secure. But simply because success infesting even a small fraction of them will give you a larger work base than you'll get from successfully attacking Macs.

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Find a hacker anywhere that uses a Mac.

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As a white-hat, and one who has had dealings with both grey and black-hat hackers (including putting several in jail), I find this laughable.

Also, "hacker" is not the same thing as a virus author. There are myriad reasons for authoring virus payloads. Only a few of them have anything to do with the hacker subculture.

Also, do a little bit of research. There ARE viruses that propagate on the Mac platform. Several of them have actually been discovered in the wild.

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but find one that's successfully put a virus on OS X.

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Okay

If you insist

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It hasnt been done....yet.

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Please see links?

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There are 0 active viruses currently infecting OS X users.

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This is true, but misleading. Yes, there are zero ACTIVE viruses CURRENTLY infecting OSX users.

Why? Because after infecting a number of users, the OS has been patched to close the loopholes that they used. About the only ones that can't be closed are ones that rely on the social engineering aspect (stupid users).

As such, I stand by my original statement.

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Again, nobody's saying "nobody uses them".

We're simply noting the difference in TOTAL market penetration. The Windows PC has at least 18 times the user base that Macs do.

As such, even a SMALL hit on Windows-based PCs is going to result in a larger number of compromised systems than you'd see in the Mac sphere.

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BayBlast, since your personal attack on me was remove, I assume you either had a change of heart or the devs smacked you.

My original point stands. Simply feeling safe because of smaller market share and different operating system architecture does not mean you ARE safe.

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honestly it will be no more at risk then if they go on line to check their email. End of story.

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