Just look at the Ancillary Pools for Tankers, which tend to have ranged attacks in them.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Ya, that was the original plan, but those are only available after L40, which is a looooongg time to wait. I just thought this would be an idea that would work right from the get go, and would still be appropriately balanced.
I mean, if I'm making a character based on Iron Man (as an example), I'm going to want him to be like Iron Man now, not 8 months from now.
Then I would suggest you try an energy/energy blaster. Iron Man tends to let his repulsors do most of his talking anyway.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
If you want a ranged/melee character with shields, roll a Kheldian.
My fire tank works the hell out of fireball and fire blast.
I'm against it.
Melee archetypes are just that.
Tankers are constantly trying to get more attack powers. If tankers want more damage or ranged attacks, they should team with archetypes that supply those powers.
Even if ranged damage is capped to what tanker damage does now, that doesn't balance the fact that it would be ranged. It would have to cost much more endurance and do far less damage than what a tanker would normally do in order to balance out the advantage of having ranged attacks and superior ranged defense (which all tankers have).
I understand that you would like to mini-max the benefits of ranged damage with the ability to hover-snipe in complete armored-safety, but I see this to be over-kill and believe it would cause a great imbalance in the game.
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I'm curious to know what people would think if Tankers had access to ranged attacks?
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He can also one-shot a hazard spawn without IOs, so I don't really feel his offense is lacking. Certainly not so much that he needs a blast set.
Just to be clear, I'm not looking for an I-Win button. There are just some character concepts that can't be fully realized with the current limits on characters. I'm not looking for higher damage, as I say, this might even reduce overall damage output.
Blasters are very squishy. I happen to like characters with staying power, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'd just like to be able to make a character that's hard (instead of squishy), but can attack with blasts. Again, I'm sure I'm not the only one. If the damage is in the same range as usual for a Tanker, what reason is there to deny this?
A Kheldian might work, but your concept is decided for you, and the AT is not available to many players (including me).
You say melee toons are supposed to be melee toons, I say who says? I mean, damage is damage. It makes no difference whether it's from a distance or up close. Also consider there are Tanker and Scrapper sets that have ranged attacks, this would just give them MORE ranged attacks at the cost of some melee attacks.
You say I'm trying to get more attack powers, when whay I'm after is more versatility. Variety is the spice of life! Ranged damage is typically less than melee damage, so I would expect Tankers with Energy Assault (for example) to do less damage with the ranged powers in the set than they would with the melee powers in the set. Melee would still be the preferred mode of attack, you would just have the option of attacking from further out.
Hovering in armored safety is not as likely as you make out, I think. First, range is not the defense people make it out to be, especially at higher level. Ask any Blaster. Second, melee attacks in a set would still be preferred over range because of the superior damage of melee powers. Finally, you'd be giving up a fluid attack chain of melee attacks to gain the versatility of ranged attacks.
A fire tank gets Fireball and Fire Blast? I didn't know that, unless you're talking about Ancillary pools. If so, I reiterate that those come rather exremely late in the character's career. I'm thinking of a way to make it possible to make characters in conception right from the get-go.
I'll also clarify, I'm not trying to actually make Iron Man. I'm trying to make Ultimo. Back when I made the Ultimo comics, he was an armored hero and his powers included energy blasts (similar to Iron Man, but different in other ways). There's currently no way to make a tough hero with blasts of any kind. Only Blasters and Defenders get blasts, and they're very squishy, which is out of the concept, and my preferred playstyle (ie. being the tough guy). I'm just looking for a way to allow this kind of character to be realized.
The Dominator sets seem to be in the ballpark of normal Tanker damage (according to Mids'), so I thought that these sets might be perfect for this. Of course, it might be necessary to work Taunt in there somewhere, perhaps in place of the usual Snipe power?
Yeah but footstomping a bunch of level 5 trolls in The Hollows when you are level 50 is hardly amazart~!
"I mean, damage is damage. It makes no difference whether it's from a distance or up close" your quote
Go say this in the PVP forums. And ya range equals alot of survivability, melee attacks often do much more damage the ranged attacks for PVE characters.
Ever hear of hover blasters well they ARE doing that for the good of their health.
If not using Kheldian (which has shields, blasts and melee attacks in the normal power set), I think the way I'd make an armored suit character would be a Blaster with Energy Blasts and Energy Manipulation. From the power pools you'd get the Fighting Pool for Tough and Weave, which increases your ability to survive. Hover also adds a bit of defense, which stacks well with Weave, if you're choosing Flight as your travel power. And Combat Jumping if you're going for Leaping (which will also give you Acrobatics so you can resist knockback). And when you get the APP's in the 40s, you have access to Force Mastery, which gives you Personal Force Field, Temp Invulnerability and Force of Nature. Overall it's not ideal, but it isn't completely bad either.
I originally made Ultimo that way, as a Blaster with the pools and powers as you describe. However, I like Tankers because of their survivability. THAT is how I envisioned Ultimo, survivable. He doesn't have to do gobs of damage, but he needs to have blasts to be in conception. Unfortunately, no kind of Blaster can begin to match the survivability of any kind of Tanker.
But that's my particular situation.
You don't think anyone else would like to have this available?
Again, I'm not seeing any real reason NOT to allow this. I often wonder the same thing about other power sets. I mean, why not have a Super Reflexes Tanker? Why not have a Super Strength Scrapper?
Obviously, you couldn't give Tankers access to thinkgs like Mind Control, but damage is damage. Really, why not open all the damage sets to all the damage classes (that is, all the blast and melee power sets open to Tankers, Scrappers, Defenders and Blasters).
That there's resistance to the idea suggests I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing what.
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"I mean, damage is damage. It makes no difference whether it's from a distance or up close" your quote
Go say this in the PVP forums. And ya range equals alot of survivability, melee attacks often do much more damage the ranged attacks for PVE characters.
Ever hear of hover blasters well they ARE doing that for the good of their health.
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This is only true because there are characters bound to only melee attacks. If the melee classes had access to some ranged attacks, hover blasters would have far less safety from Brutes and Tankers.
Cool concept, but as has been said, what you are after already exists in the game, you just have to go get it. It's the nature of MMOs; you have goals to work towards. It is unrealistic to ask the devs to bend over backwards and make something just especially for you, basically it's not going to happen, you have to work with what you have. It's a cool concept, but you are asking for something that will never be as the game currently stands (standard archetype that is a ranged tank from level 1).
The way I see it, your options are:
1. Make a Tanker and level him up to 41 to pick up your Epic powers. Leveling is faster than ever before thanks to the AE, just get in a good group and it won't take an unreasonable amount of time to get there. I noticed your post in the Defender forums and you said you solo exclusively (if I remember correctly). Again, this goes back to being realistic about what to expect out of a MMO. In this particular one, leveling goes 10x faster in a group, generally speaking.
2. Get a character to 50 and roll a Peacebringer. You say the "concept is already decided for you" but that is not necessarily true. You can be a Peacebringer in game terms only and write your story however you see fit.
3. Wait until Champions Online comes out September 1st. You'll be able to do exactly the character you want in this game because there are no archetypes, you can pick any powers you want from a long list in any combination. In particular there was a very nice video on the Power Armor framework released recently, just do a search for it. I won't post a link because I don't want to ruffle any feathers here by showing off a game that will clearly compete with this one for subscribers.
I believe Blasters also get some resistance powers in their Epic pools, so that's a 4th option I guess, they'll still be squishy though.
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I originally made Ultimo that way, as a Blaster with the pools and powers as you describe. However, I like Tankers because of their survivability. THAT is how I envisioned Ultimo, survivable. He doesn't have to do gobs of damage, but he needs to have blasts to be in conception. Unfortunately, no kind of Blaster can begin to match the survivability of any kind of Tanker.
But that's my particular situation.
You don't think anyone else would like to have this available?
Again, I'm not seeing any real reason NOT to allow this. I often wonder the same thing about other power sets. I mean, why not have a Super Reflexes Tanker? Why not have a Super Strength Scrapper?
Obviously, you couldn't give Tankers access to thinkgs like Mind Control, but damage is damage. Really, why not open all the damage sets to all the damage classes (that is, all the blast and melee power sets open to Tankers, Scrappers, Defenders and Blasters).
That there's resistance to the idea suggests I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing what.
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Ranged attacks tend to be antithetical to "tanking". Tanking here being my own definition of diving into mobs and flailing away.
Most (if not all) tank types out of the comics tend to be melee based with maybe one signature ranged attacked (Thor and his hammer, Hulk throwing debris, Superman and his eye-beams). If you peruse the Tanker secondaries and APPs you will see that by and large these have been duplicated. Hurl Boulder, Flame Breath, Eye Lasers, Fireball, Fireblast, Iceblast, etc ....
If you want to play a character who is *mainly* a ranged fighter, then by that very description you are not playing a Tanker (whether you envision him to be tough or not).
Having said that, you can play a Blaster who is fairly tough (given IOs and APPs).
P.S. - I think Ironman has generally fallen into the category of Blaster or Defender when referenced. I certainly would never call him a Tanker (as compared to the Hulk, Thing, Thor, Superman, Wonderman, Powerman, etc ...). Granted many examples don't have direct analogies to CoH ATs.
Forcefield Defender. Easier to softcap his defense with Defender mods on pool power defenses and with Dispersion bubble. Force Bolt for repulsors, go Energy Blast if you like. Some good status protection from Dispersion Bubble.
Forcefield Defender doesn't do enough damage, you say? I thought this wasn't about doing lots of damage/tankmagery.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Great example.
If I had to narrow it down, I would say Ironman is more of a an invulnerable scrapper with defender-like blasts. Hopefully, they are working on a pistol based scrapper set and with any luck, maybe a laser based one (but that is wishful thinking). I think the best you can hope for is rolling an energy blaster, choosing combat jumping and the fighting pool for the extra defense - and when you actually get up to 41 - choose moar defense!
EDIT:
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Forcefield Defender. Easier to softcap his defense with Defender mods on pool power defenses and with Dispersion bubble. Force Bolt for repulsors, go Energy Blast if you like. Some good status protection from Dispersion Bubble.
Forcefield Defender doesn't do enough damage, you say? I thought this wasn't about doing lots of damage/tankmagery.
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This.
Actually, I've been playing an Iron Man homage on Infinity that's a FF/EB Defender (Technaught, he's in the Techwar arc in my sig), and I'm kind of enjoying it. The problem is he solos like a brick, what with minimal defenses (at this point, anyway) and minimal offense. No, it's not about damage/tankmagery, but it still has to be fun, and playing a solo defender is often like pulling teeth. Plus, he's still very squishy. He's been essentially one-shotted frequently already (granted, by custom bosses). Still, I agree it's as close as I've ever come. Even at that, it would still have been nice to have the choice of a power set that's a mix of melee and ranged attacks.
I agree, Tankers tend to be melee characters, but I see no reason why they have to be. I mean, Tankers have two mandates, get aggro and survive it. Neither task demands melee. I simply thought this would open up more options.
Remember that the other side of this is not about the Iron Man comparison. It's about opening up options for people who like playing Tankers.
There's less threat at range. The immense survivability of Tankers is mostly wasted doing that. Plus, sets like Invulnerability and Willpower would really need to be gutted and changed. Also, try managing aggro on 15 targets at range.
What you're looking for is an Epic AT that hasn't been made yet. A mix of ranged, melee, and survivability. Looking at all EATs, villain and hero, that's exactly what they are. However, they're locked pretty well into specific looks and stories (to a point).
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Actually, I've been playing an Iron Man homage on Infinity that's a FF/EB Defender (Technaught, he's in the Techwar arc in my sig), and I'm kind of enjoying it. The problem is he solos like a brick, what with minimal defenses (at this point, anyway) and minimal offense. No, it's not about damage/tankmagery, but it still has to be fun, and playing a solo defender is often like pulling teeth. Plus, he's still very squishy. He's been essentially one-shotted frequently already (granted, by custom bosses). Still, I agree it's as close as I've ever come. Even at that, it would still have been nice to have the choice of a power set that's a mix of melee and ranged attacks.
I agree, Tankers tend to be melee characters, but I see no reason why they have to be. I mean, Tankers have two mandates, get aggro and survive it. Neither task demands melee. I simply thought this would open up more options.
Remember that the other side of this is not about the Iron Man comparison. It's about opening up options for people who like playing Tankers.
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And now we know why Ironman has had the lamest villains to date 
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Plus, he's still very squishy. He's been essentially one-shotted frequently already (granted, by custom bosses).
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Everybody gets creamed by custom bosses. I've seen them carve though a trio of tanks working together -- Granite, Invulnerability, and Willpower. Getting creamed by custom bosses is no standard at all for measuring a character, and the Devs should (and probably will) decisively refuse to regard it as such.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Oh, I'm agreeing with you! There's some serious issues with custom characters of all sorts (Lord Dire, a custom EB, did over 600 damage with one Charged Brawl to my Claws Scrapper at L8! The Scrapper only has a maximum of 574 health! I don't usually use the word "stupid," but I can't think of a better description).
On the other hand, you can't say a Defender is as hardy as a Tanker.
There are many people who just like playing Tankers for their survivability. Even if it means less damage, we like being tough enough to withstand whatever gets tossed our way. However, being limited to only melee powers is very limiting to concepts like mine, that require the combination of toughness and ranged powers.
You may be right, perhaps I'll like Champions Online, lord knows I keep comparing CoH to the old PnP version. Until that comes along though, wouldn't a little more choice be nice?
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However, being limited to only melee powers is very limiting to concepts like mine, that require the combination of toughness and ranged powers.
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Do you even read feedback? As others have posted, you are NOT limited to melee attacks. There are ranged attacks in the Epics and I can think of two Secondaries that both include a ranged attack.
What you want is a Tankmage.
My Energy/Energy/Elc Blaster is a homage to Iron Man. He's plenty tough. Of course there are some irregularities to his concept but since he's a homage in a world where someone elses rules apply, I work with what I'm given. If you haven't tried the Elec pool for Blasters, then you are missing out. Surge of Power is a excellent tool (yes, I know you look like a gremlin) and Charged Armor certainly adds some toughness to your character by giving you resistance to the 3 most popular damage types in this game; smashing, lethal and energy.
I can't wait for CO to be released. Finally we'll stop seeing posts from yourself and J_B about your silly concepts and how CoX can't meet your design goals.
I'm curious to know what people would think if Tankers had access to ranged attacks?
I mean, it seems to me that damage is damage, whether it's from melee or range, so what difference does it make if the tanker has ranged attacks, if you see what I mean?
This comes to mind because I've made a number of NPCs for the MA, and in the case of most of the "tankerish" characters, I've given them the Dominator Assault sets instead of the straight melee or Ranged sets. It helps enormously with certain concept characters (like Iron Man types, who are supposed to be tough, but also have blasts).
Damage output would still be in the usual Tanker range, so I don't see it stepping on the toes of the Blasters any more than they step on Scrappers' toes now.
I anticipate the cries of "TANKMAGE!" but again, damage would still be in the usual Tanker range (lower, in fact, since ranged attacks do less damage in general than melee), and damage is damage, whatever the source.
The only thing I'm not certain of is how it would affect aggro control. That is, for ranged attacks, would the Gauntlet aura happen around the Tanker or the Target?
What do you think? What if they proliferated a few Energy/Electrical/etc. Assault sets over to Tankers (and possibly other melee characters)?