The engine can support it if it was implemented like the Grav Controller power.
Unfortunately us Tankers don't even get that 
And it'd look horrible. We've already got SS ripping chunks of ground out of the earth and the ground having no lasting damage done, the chunk not looking like the ground it came from. Where would the cars and poles come from? "I'll just pull this Buick from my pocket and toss it at ya."
Hurl's the closest we're gonna get.
I think it'd be better then what we currently have.
Also Hurl makes sense for Stone Melee .... I think Inv should be pulling Buick's and bath tubs from our butts and throwing them, yes. 
Too bad Inv isn't an attack set!
[ QUOTE ]
Too bad Inv isn't an attack set!
[/ QUOTE ]
Just wondering how long it would take you to point it out Pedantic Man.
[ QUOTE ]
The engine can support it if it was implemented like the Grav Controller power.
[/ QUOTE ]The reason they're not 'implemented' the same way is because at no point does the player model of the Gravity controller interact with the projectile. Because Hurl involves picking the object up and throwing it, the player model has to include the object in question before it leaves the player and becomes a projectile. In essence, the reason why Gravity gets to do it is because their animation is distant, and remote, and has no impact.
[ QUOTE ]
And it'd look horrible. We've already got SS ripping chunks of ground out of the earth and the ground having no lasting damage done, the chunk not looking like the ground it came from. Where would the cars and poles come from? "I'll just pull this Buick from my pocket and toss it at ya."
[/ QUOTE ]
The fun of hurling all the same junk as a Gravity Controller would overcome the incongruity.
I'd just have the character put their hands up in the air and have the object suddenly appear in them, then get chucked. Where did the object come from? Sometimes it would make sense (like a forklift in the warehouse map), sometimes it wouldn't (like a pool table in the middle of a forest), but it would always be fun.
Yeah, it'd be fun. Just pointing out that it's something the devs wouldn't do.
Opinion is mixed on that, for just the reasons pointed out.
I wonder if there would be a way to have the power only access appropriate items? I mean, I'm no programmer (last time I did any programming, BASIC was the language of choice...), but surely some sort of "if map=warehouse then itemlist=warehouse objects" sort of mechanism could be made to work?
I mean, grabbing and lifting objects would be ideal, but barring that, perhaps the heaving appropriate objects can overcome the sudden materialization of them.
Meh. In the end, I don't mind Hurl as it is, except that the chunk of rock is too small. I mean, it looks like a patio stone. I swear I could lift it myself (no chucking, though).
What you describe there would be very much possible in theory, ie have maps tagged with appropriate objects that can be picked up from the ground. It would take a fair amount of work, and is the kind of thing games developers avoid once a system is up and running.
It would still often look wrong - pulling a pool table out of the floor in a casino or a forklift out of a warehouse floor wouldnt look right in the way that pulling a boulder out of the floor in a cave does.
So its a lot of work for a mediocre result. If you look at how the sinlge player game Freedom Force did it, ie you interact with pre-existing props, you get a much more satisfying result, but scaling that up to a MMO is another matter entirely, where you have to synch up which props have been thrown and where. Propel currently can show up as throwing different objects for different teammates since the type of object isnt sunched across the network. Thats fine for now, because the type of object is just cosmetic.
That all said, Champions looks like it has throwable interactive obejcts. We shall see.
It's always amazed me that the game didn't include this from the beginning. There are a few things that make me scratch my head. I mean, this is a staple of the comic book genre. People are always grabbing things, being knocked through things and so on. The other big one is customizable powers. I mean, they went to considerable length to let us customize our characters appearance, but then locked us in on our powers. Why one and not the other? As I say, I would have made sure to do both, it seems obvious to me...
[ QUOTE ]
It's always amazed me that the game didn't include this from the beginning.
[/ QUOTE ]Amazing that one power in a secondary, that's a minor mechanical type for an archetype with heaps of secondaries, doesn't have more work put into it than whole sets?
Strange.
No, it's amazing that an iconic powerset such as Super Strength was almost an afterthought on the part of the devs from the begining. Hell, it was a few months in live before KO blow did any damage. Punch that doesn't look like any kind of punch I've ever seen. Haymaker that looks nothing like a haymaker.
Help make America #1 in Broadband: www.broadband.gov
Take the survey/test (like a Census for Broadband): http://broadband.gov/qualitytest/about/
Right. Super Strength and Invulnerability are the two most common, iconic power sets in the comic book genre, they had to be done right. Personally, I don't think they were.
What I'm saying is that if I were designing a game based on comic books, I'd be sure to make it possible to emulate the action in the comics. CoH only goes so far.
I mean, the first image of a superhero we have is Action Comics #1, with Superman lifting a car and smashing it, right there on the cover; and yet, superheroes in CoH can't do this. Heck, they don't get to lift ANYTHING until rather late in the game, and even then it's only a little chunk of stone.
It just seems strange to me that they wouldn't have ensured this would be better realized.
[ QUOTE ]
No, it's amazing that an iconic powerset such as Super Strength was almost an afterthought on the part of the devs from the begining. Hell, it was a few months in live before KO blow did any damage. Punch that doesn't look like any kind of punch I've ever seen. Haymaker that looks nothing like a haymaker.
[/ QUOTE ]Being one of the most powerful sets in the game = an afterthought?
Right.
The reason people don't cater to please you is because you're exactly the kind of person who will not be pleased by anything they do.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, it's amazing that an iconic powerset such as Super Strength was almost an afterthought on the part of the devs from the begining. Hell, it was a few months in live before KO blow did any damage. Punch that doesn't look like any kind of punch I've ever seen. Haymaker that looks nothing like a haymaker.
[/ QUOTE ]Being one of the most powerful sets in the game = an afterthought?
Right.
The reason people don't cater to please you is because you're exactly the kind of person who will not be pleased by anything they do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Note, SS is now one of the best offensive sets a tank can get. At live it was horrid. Wasn't till KO Blow did damage, and I believe they upped the damage quite a bit on Footstop that it did get to the position it is now. Yes, SS appears to be an afterthought on the Devs in a comic book genra MMO.
Help make America #1 in Broadband: www.broadband.gov
Take the survey/test (like a Census for Broadband): http://broadband.gov/qualitytest/about/
Not really.
Tanks were less damage dealers and more utility back then. If you wanted damage from a tank, you went fire. SS might not have been balanced against other sets/ATs in terms of damage then, but it was far from an afterthought.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
Not really.
Tanks were less damage dealers and more utility back then. If you wanted damage from a tank, you went fire. SS might not have been balanced against other sets/ATs in terms of damage then, but it was far from an afterthought.
[/ QUOTE ]
And it didn't matter what secondary you took because you burn patched everything on the map to death.
Dirges
As usual though, this isn't about performance, it's about presentation.
[ QUOTE ]
As usual though, this isn't about performance, it's about presentation.
[/ QUOTE ]Yes, and you want a presentation that will look stupid to people who aren't you, and will require a lot of work to implement, probably as much work as an individual powerset, and still, will look stupid. Lots of incentive to do it there. Especially given how unloved and unpopular Super Strength is.
No, I want a presentation that would look like what we see in the comics. I never said it should be changed, I said I'd have made it right in the first place.
That said, I'd bet that no one would complain if the set was totally changed around, as long as it's effectiveness wasn't hurt. As it is, the only thing someone suggested was that Hurl have a different look. Not a big deal, if you ask me.
Well, you've got every right to strike out on your own and gather a crack team of programmers, designers, artists, and support staff to make your own superhero MMO so that you can "make it right in the first place," but considering the tech of the time, I certainly don't think the devs did a bad job with the power FX (for their design ideologies, I'd give a different mark). It's certainly not something worth investigating without a large amount invested into somehow making a brand new engine work without losing a large portion of the player base, while on a manageable budget.
[ QUOTE ]
I'd have made it right in the first place.
[/ QUOTE ]Very easy to say that, isn't it?
Well, I'm not saying they did it badly, I'm just saying I'd have done it differently; I'd have been sure not to release the game until it more closely resembled the comic books.
That would mean allowing people to fight while airborne without gasping for breath. That would mean making super strength able to do things like lifting objects that are heavy. That would mean giving the heroes more to do than just hit things. I could go on and on.
By no means do I mean to say it would be easy, even with today's technology, let alone the technology available at that time. I'm just saying my priorities would have been different.
[ QUOTE ]
And many of us wish we could grab cars and telephone poles and smack things with them. Too bad the engine can't support it.
[/ QUOTE ]
At least you realise that. Unlike someone else who haunts these Tanker forums....