It wouldn't kill anything, those pesky farmers are a flexible lot. They would find a way.
However, I personally do think that the idea has merit - only if it's "ingame" time, not "real world time" because of how often one might forget to log onto a character. Though - I'd lose my Tyrant missions, I have had two on my fifties for ... well over a year now lol. But I haven't actually *run* them yet.
I think maybe a change to 'after mission started'. I'm not against that kind of change, though I don't see it really being necessary since the devs have already got plenty of ways to curb in-game farming where as they have had to get a little more dramatic with the AE stuff.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
It should be "In-Game" time.
I'm not a fan of this suggestion, I will run the TV Missions myself. Got different ones saved on different 50's.
If the Devs want to crack down on Farming, this is a feasible way to do it In-Game, to support their efforts in MA.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
You can farm radio missions by using fill ... I've done it ...
Edit:
And no to the suggestion btw
You can increase the output of any mission using Fills. That isn't Farming.
I have a secondary account and log in a toon to fill in Cimeroro, and that's fun! But it isn't Farming.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
[ QUOTE ]
You can increase the output of any mission using Fills. That isn't Farming.
I have a secondary account and log in a toon to fill in Cimeroro, and that's fun! But it isn't Farming.
[/ QUOTE ]
Some would argue otherwise. I agree with you if it's fun. But your rewards are still increased.
but increased rewards does not always mean farming.
To me, filling has generally only meant 'making more difficult', not necessarily 'repeating the mission over and over'. I mean, I don't often fill but I have in the past, and if it were more seriously farming, why didn't they ask *again* when they had reset the mission? (obvious answer is obvious, that they found another person, but still).
Filling =/= farming, farming =/= powerleveling, exploits =/= any of those either. Farming is not bad in and of itself, and is easily done even by accident. Heck, filling might even just mean, "I want to get a 5 person worth out of this 4 person team because I'm too lazy to up my diff level" 
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
[ QUOTE ]
Set a time limit on how long a Mission can remain in a players Mission Tray.
This will work for the G-Ville TV Missions, and Most every other Farm Mission in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe a time limit could be imposed after a player has entered the mission. I think the intention is just to avoid people from repeating them. For people that grab a mission and let it sit there without doing it, I think they are fine.
Other possible methods are to prohibit players from reseting missions. (I remember some people said that reseting is useful for bugged mission. If a mission is bugged, the "correct" way is to drop the mission through the contact). Ideally, if the server can save the progress of a mission, then players won't be able to repeat missions as well. Once the mobs are defeated, they are gone.
[ QUOTE ]
You can farm radio missions by using fill
[/ QUOTE ]
People use the trick of zoning to always get mobs like freaks and councils. I think blocking this trick will at least reduce the feeling of farming.
[ QUOTE ]
After all the Flame Wars that have gone on concerning Mission Architect and Farming, it is clear that the player base is devided concerning Farming.
I am a casual Farmer, myself. I get bored easy, so I can't Farm effectively. After about 3 runs of the same Mish I got to go do something else, lol.
The Devs have made alot of changes to the MA concerning Farming.
I would like to give them a suggestion to Kill Farming In-Game. Here it is;
Set a time limit on how long a Mission can remain in a players Mission Tray.
This will work for the G-Ville TV Missions, and Most every other Farm Mission in the game.
Now, before someone says this wont work in AE, I will remind you that I said Kill Farming In-Game, not AE which they are already addressing.
Devs, you should realize that if you read this and do it you will chase off a big portion of your income. The percentage of your playerbase that are active Farmers.
But this would Kill Farming.
[/ QUOTE ]
The devs are not against farming, they are against people taking advantage of exploits. Please don't try to put words into their mouths.
Oh and /unsigned to the idea.
If they did do this I hope the timer wouldn't start till a mission was reset. This way if the missions bugs out you have 12 hours in game to retry it. If the mission is fine you have 12 hours to farm it ^_^.
And how would this address MA farms, which can be completed, reselected, and restarted, with no need to "reset" like you would with a traditional farm?
Sorry, but no, it wouldn't kill farming.
Nothing will. Even if you make it impossible to farm missions, there will still be the option of street sweeping. Especially in hazard zones.
@Roderick
[ QUOTE ]
But this would Kill Farming.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it wouldn't. It wouldn't even slow it down very much. Anyone who wants to farm is going to find a way. Hell, I've already found a way to get around your proposed change. Ouroboros.
What this change would do is make the game less accessible to players who constantly cycle through alts and players who have shorter or less frequent log-in periods. It could also be construed as a "punishment" by some players, in the same manner that day job powers have been.
There are two really simple things that could be done to all but kill AE farming (powerleveling at least, which seems to be the real issue.)
1) Remove the auto-SK from the AE, or force everyone to auto-SK to the same level. Powerleveling is currently easy because the AE can be used to mass "bridge" seven people at the same time.
2) Diminishing returns on MA rewards. This won't be popular, but if daily DR starts kicking in after two arcs and reduces rewards to zero by the end of (say) four arcs, that would kill the kind of egregious farming that seems to be what the devs take issue with.
It seems to me that one or both of these solutions would be really easy to implement; I don't understand why it hasn't been done.
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
/unsigned to all these suggestions.
I like farming, leave me alone.
[ QUOTE ]
There are two really simple things that could be done to all but kill AE farming (powerleveling at least, which seems to be the real issue.)
1) Remove the auto-SK from the AE, or force everyone to auto-SK to the same level. Powerleveling is currently easy because the AE can be used to mass "bridge" seven people at the same time.
[/ QUOTE ]
This.
I don't think anyone really cares if veteran players and PvPers want to farm/PL within their own groups with their perma-46s. If newbies have to go back to finding 5mil Inf for a run on Lib TV or an AE boss farm or whatever that will end the current craze.
how about you all left the farmers be and not worry about them and play the game your way...if the devs did add timers on how long mishes can stay on a toon i would leave this game farming and helping freinds lvl is only reason i still play so you kill farming i am done with coh/v....and i am sure others would be too...everyone plays this game their way if you dont want to farm DONT if you do....stop listening to all the people down on farming and farm away enjoy the game people farm doesnt hurt anyone
<qr>
My OP stated that I'm not talking about the AE, and using it to Farm. I'm talking about Farming Normal Game Missions.
Setting a limit to how many time a regular game Mish can be repeated would work too.
I do not use Filling to Farm Missions by repeating them. I use Filling to up the Spawn count, and make the Challenge increase. I'm not too lazy to up the Diff Setting, it's kinda hard to up it to Challenge Rating 6 when it don't exist.
I also stated in my OP that this suggestion would reduce the playerbase. That is because alot of players would quit the game.
I'm saying that if they are going to attack Farming in the AE, they need to do so outside AE as well. Or, better yet, leave Farmers alone. Right now there is a Double Standard, you can Farm the Game Missions, but don't you dare Farm AE. If rules are created to stop it in one, rules should exist to stop it in both.
As for putting "Word's in the Dev's mouths". If I knew how to link to a recent Posi Interview I read, I would do so. But, he clearly stated that he was against Farming, and was always looking for ways to reduce it. He was talking about the overall game, not the AE.
My intention in starting this thread was to introduce an idea a friend of mine had. He doesn't use the Forums, and asked me if I would suggest it.
My hope is that folks will help refine this suggestion, or offer other constructive ideas to decrease In-Game Farming.
It was not my intention to start another Farming Flame War, but that seems to happen whenever someone uses the word Farm.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
I don't feel there is a double standard. Farming Lib TV or the hero side equivalent is far less prevalent than the epidemic of AE farms, and also requires a more specialised team set up. It's also not right in your face the first time you zone into Atlas Park or Mercy, which is, I suspect, a significant part of why this is being considered a problem.
Given these differences I don't think that what needs to be done to 'fix' AE is necessarily required for regular missions.
How to kill farming?
To paraphrase Shakespeare, "First kill all the farmers."
I'm not advocating that, but that is the only solution. If they successfully did that the game would be a very empty place.
My personal opinion is they should concentrate on creating beautiful, exciting, fast paced, challenging, and well written content. Stuff like the Imperious Task Force. That does more to direct people away from farming and towards content than any punitive measure they could take and without chasing away paying customers.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
[ QUOTE ]
enjoy the game people farm doesn't hurt anyone
[/ QUOTE ]
This actually is not entirely true.
Before they implemented the XP Curve Smoothing they datamined to see how long people stayed at each level and averaged it out. PL farmers running with bridges lowered the average time people were staying at levels in the mid 30's. Therefore, when they finally did the XP curve smoothing we got less than we would have if the PL farmers did not exist.
Arcanaville went into that a while ago with all the numbers and such, but I couldn't find it when I searched.
Just because you can't see the harm in something doesn't mean it isn't there.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a rabid Anti-Farmer or anything, I personally don't really care. Just pointing out that there are things farming hurts, whether you choose to recognize it or not.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Farming is also not just done in missions. I have spent countless hours beating up Romans on the wall in Cimerora. I'm sure there are others who go into the hazard zones in CoH and 'farm' the mobs there too. Would all those spawn be removed so people cant farm them?
[ QUOTE ]
Right now there is a Double Standard, you can Farm the Game Missions, but don't you dare Farm AE. If rules are created to stop it in one, rules should exist to stop it in both.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no double standard. There is no attempt to stop farming in general. There is no attempt to stop all farming in the AE. The devs are only trying to stop farming the exploits and reduce some of the motivation for exploitive farming in the AE.
I can create a personal farm mission using custom characters and level from 1 to 50 using it. The devs wouldn't care. Why? Because I would not be using an exploit. I would be leveling fairly slowly, actually, since I wouldn't get the end-of-mission or Patrol XP.
There's no good reason to implement your (sarcastic) suggestion.
[ QUOTE ]
It was not my intention to start another Farming Flame War, but that seems to happen whenever someone uses the word Farm.
[/ QUOTE ]
Incorrect again. The argument starts whenever someone tries to claim the devs are against farming when they have clearly stated that they are only after the people that took advantage of exploits.
[ QUOTE ]
Players that have abused the reward system egregiously may lose benefits they have gained - leading up to and perhaps including losing access to the characters power-leveled in this fashion.
Players who knowingly use an exploit when creating an arc, run the risk of having access to MA suspended, or worse- depending on the severity of the action, their account banned.
[/ QUOTE ]
Stop the fearmongering.
[ QUOTE ]
Set a time limit on how long a Mission can remain in a players Mission Tray.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that it has been pointed out that this is a "timed mission".
The DEVs have said that they have put timers on some missions that were being farmed.
[ QUOTE ]
Now, before someone says this wont work in AE, I will remind you that I said Kill Farming In-Game, not AE which they are already addressing.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm putting timers on my AE missions, but, when it comes down to it, as long as you can play a mission/arc more than once it can be farmed. So technically, you can't stop farming in the AE if a player can repeatedly select the same mission.
There are various levels/degrees of farming. The DEVs are supposed to be working to be putting to the stop the most aggressive and abusive forms of farming that have increased since the MA went live.
When you street fight and the mobs re-spawn, you are technically farming.
But I think we all know what "farming" is, what "farming-like" behavior, and ...yes...I dare say it...what abusive farming is.
[ QUOTE ]
Devs, you should realize that if you read this and do it you will chase off a big portion of your income. The percentage of your playerbase that are active Farmers.
[/ QUOTE ]
What is "big"?
I think it is far less active farmers than you would think.
I also think that if someone joined the game just to be able to abuse it, they weren't joining for good reason.
They also didn't read the EULA. We are to report game exploits.
[ QUOTE ]
But this would Kill Farming.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think farming can be killed in the game. I really think it is impossible.
I do think that the abusive farming/pl'ing can be curbed, be stopped, bemonitored, and be punished.
We are told to report exploits that we see in the game so that they won't be abused.
Players that create exploits intentionally and not only spread the idea that exploits are good but promote other players to exploit the game shouldn't be shocked when they get hit with the +20 40-ton hammer of ultimate smack down.
But I don't think that farming can be entirely stopped.
After all the Flame Wars that have gone on concerning Mission Architect and Farming, it is clear that the player base is devided concerning Farming.
I am a casual Farmer, myself. I get bored easy, so I can't Farm effectively. After about 3 runs of the same Mish I got to go do something else, lol.
The Devs have made alot of changes to the MA concerning Farming.
I would like to give them a suggestion to Kill Farming In-Game. Here it is;
Set a time limit on how long a Mission can remain in a players Mission Tray.
This will work for the G-Ville TV Missions, and Most every other Farm Mission in the game.
Now, before someone says this wont work in AE, I will remind you that I said Kill Farming In-Game, not AE which they are already addressing.
Devs, you should realize that if you read this and do it you will chase off a big portion of your income. The percentage of your playerbase that are active Farmers.
But this would Kill Farming.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow