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In reality all badges can encourage farming. Ouro badges can encourage farming a mission arc can be played multiple times to get all the badges for that one level range. If someone wants a badge or badges they cant get it the way they want then? They have to do it the way the Dev's want them too?
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If you insist on framing the situation in those terms, then you can get them any way you want. But the devs make whichever ones they want.
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In the other thread Synapse said
". . . they were unobtainable by a large portion of our players, . . . "
SO WHAT ??? Honestly do all badges HAVE to be attainable by most players, in MA?
They certainly are not in the other badge categories. My blaster will never get Empath. Why should MA be different ??
The point of getting a BADGE is that it is difficult and rare !!!
Some Badges (not all) should NOT be attainable by MOST players.
What are your thoughts ?
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That was stated as being only one of many reasons why some badges were removed. The entire quote with the ellipses filled in is:
"This is because they encouraged farming, because they encouraged aberrant behavior by doing one thing over and over again, they were unobtainable by a large portion of our players, or earning them was completely out of a player's hands and in the hands of other players."
He doesn't explicitly state that all badges must be attainable by most players.
Also, "obtainable" means different things to different people. The ski jump badges are obtainable by everyone in theory, although they are not obtainable by everyone in practice.
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I know. That's exactly my point and the reason why I started a new thread. I want to know what other players think about this statement.
To me the some badges should NOT be obtainable by most players [characters], ie my example ' . . . my blaster will never get empath'.
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In reality all badges can encourage farming. Ouro badges can encourage farming a mission arc can be played multiple times to get all the badges for that one level range. If someone wants a badge or badges they cant get it the way they want then? They have to do it the way the Dev's want them too?
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If you insist on framing the situation in those terms, then you can get them any way you want. But the devs make whichever ones they want.
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I spent many many hours getting these badges it was not my fault the Dev's are so out of touch with the player base to fail to see what was going to happen when they released this issue. We shouldnt have to pay the price. There is no reason to remove these badges at all it will not change the way people play AE.
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My suggestion:
Master of X Task/Strike force, for each and every T/SF, but mix up the challanges required in each case, os they are not all no temps/no defeats.
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I could definitely get behind this.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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There are many sorts of people.
Some people say, "Hey, I got X. I'm happy."
Others say, "I have X and you don't. I'm happy."
I personally don't want the latter sort of person to be happy.
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Don't forget, "You have X and I don't. I won't be happy until I have it too, you don't have it either."
And, here we are.
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Actually I think you used a comma instead of an "or".
On the other hand I think there is a fourth group that said "I want reasonable badge requirements. Who cares if farmers burn themselves out sooner?"
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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because they encouraged aberrant behavior
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Like merits causing people to farm task forces? Or only run contact missions until they complete the merit-giving arc(s)?
Or the ticket cap encouraging people to not complete missions?
And if said badges actually "encouraged' this behavior, they've got a lotta 'splainin' to do about how they're going to fix all the older badges that "encouraged" the exact same behavior.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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And if said badges actually "encouraged' this behavior, they've got a lotta 'splainin' to do about how they're going to fix all the older badges that "encouraged" the exact same behavior.
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Synapse already did: he said "not gonna, at this time."
The argument that a corrective action is invalid specifically because it doesn't address issues its not targetted to address is not an especially strong one. This is the "what about this" rule.
Personally, I think the change is a bit too severe. However, whether it addresses other issues is irrelevant.
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<QR>
My thoughts are around what game to play now.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
The argument isn't "the devs should leave this stuff in" or "the devs should take this stuff out".
The argument is "the devs are being inconsistent" and their "reasoning" comes off as severely disjointed.
Now the devs don't owe us a huge, involved "World Summit" discussion on this. But some clarity would really be nicer than these "RAWR" sound bites.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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My thoughts are around what game to play now.
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I hear Progress Quest is pretty fun. See ya!
As for Badges, I think that 95% of all Badges should be attainable by all players, but not all characters (See Healing Badges as an example). There should be 5% that are either extremely difficult (Master of) or near impossible (Bug Hunter). Of the 95%, 10% of those should take a good amount of work (Illusionists, WW/BM).
Personally, for the MA Badges, I would only have one 'event' count per Arc and then lower then number needed. So "Rescue 10 people" would turn into "Rescue people from 10 different Arcs."
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[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]
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What we're badges originally intended for?
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Personally, I see Badges as a record of what each character has done. Kind of giving a snapshot of their personality and past experiences. I have hopes that eventually, the context sensitive dialogue system will evolve into a system so that characters and storys can behave differently to characters depending on which badges the character has.
I do realise that is not the view of everyone, of course, just my perspective.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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My thoughts are around what game to play now.
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I hear Progress Quest is pretty fun. See ya!
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You (and others like you) can keep using those same silly responses whenever someone posts something like this, but that does not change the fact that there is a not insignificant number of players that are being driven in this direction. They may not have made the actual decision yet to "jump ship", but that doesn't change the fact that some folks are actively looking for a replacement, or at least considering the possibility.
Anyone who thinks they are all the "OMG! Teh evil devs nerfed mah Rikti farmz!" players is being naive.
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The argument is "the devs are being inconsistent" and their "reasoning" comes off as severely disjointed.
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Synapse is saying they are specifically looking at MA badges, and changing their goals for all future badges. There's nothing specifically "inconsistent" with making the calculated decision not to revisit badges introduced prior to the MA.
Besides, this is an unavoidable accusation for the devs. If they address past issues, they are accused of not grandfathering the past and focusing on the future. If they don't address past issues they are accused of treating things inconsistently. In fact, Synapse gets a gold star for managing to trigger *both* accusations simultaneously. That's comparable to the scene in the West Wing where Bartlet says "I've got to hand it to you guys, you've pulled off a political first. You've managed to win me the support of the Christian Right and the Cheech and Chong Fan Club in the same day."
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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The argument is "the devs are being inconsistent" and their "reasoning" comes off as severely disjointed.
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Synapse is saying they are specifically looking at MA badges, and changing their goals for all future badges. There's nothing specifically "inconsistent" with making the calculated decision not to revisit badges introduced prior to the MA.
Besides, this is an unavoidable accusation for the devs. If they address past issues, they are accused of not grandfathering the past and focusing on the future. If they don't address past issues they are accused of treating things inconsistently. In fact, Synapse gets a gold star for managing to trigger *both* accusations simultaneously. That's comparable to the scene in the West Wing where Bartlet says "I've got to hand it to you guys, you've pulled off a political first. You've managed to win me the support of the Christian Right and the Cheech and Chong Fan Club in the same day."
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But do they really have to remove these badges. why cant they let us keep them and change them later. It is not like they havent done that before.
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But do they really have to remove these badges. why cant they let us keep them and change them later. It is not like they havent done that before.
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I think the idea is they want to add in more non-count badges, and remove some of the "Defeat X" badges that are already in the game. They don't want a select few people that would very likely include egregious exploiters in their ranks to parade around badges that are no longer available in game.
If you're actually suggesting that certain "Defeat X" badges be transformed into the as-yet-unnamed completely-not-a-defeat-X badge ... are you serious?
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But do they really have to remove these badges. why cant they let us keep them and change them later. It is not like they havent done that before.
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I think the idea is they want to add in more non-count badges, and remove some of the "Defeat X" badges that are already in the game. They don't want a select few people that would very likely include egregious exploiters in their ranks to parade around badges that are no longer available in game.
If you're actually suggesting that certain "Defeat X" badges be transformed into the as-yet-unnamed completely-not-a-defeat-X badge ... are you serious?
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Thats all fine but why not decide when it was on test to do this why wait. Oh all these badges we dont like anymore so we are gonna remove them eventhough you spen X amount of time getting them.
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But do they really have to remove these badges. why cant they let us keep them and change them later. It is not like they havent done that before.
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I think the idea is they want to add in more non-count badges, and remove some of the "Defeat X" badges that are already in the game. They don't want a select few people that would very likely include egregious exploiters in their ranks to parade around badges that are no longer available in game.
If you're actually suggesting that certain "Defeat X" badges be transformed into the as-yet-unnamed completely-not-a-defeat-X badge ... are you serious?
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Thats all fine but why not decide when it was on test to do this why wait. Oh all these badges we dont like anymore so we are gonna remove them eventhough you spen X amount of time getting them.
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I don't think they know what TEST is. Even Synapse being a player as he said, I would assume he and the rest of the team thoroughly tested this [censored] before they release it live, but did they? Were the Rikti planted there to get people hooked on 'farming'? because they obviously didn't test every aspect of this issue and every worst case scenario. Hey Synapse, I hope you get nerfed to an intern.
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because they obviously didn't test every aspect of this issue and every worst case scenario.
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Um, duh?
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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My thoughts are around what game to play now.
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I hear Progress Quest is pretty fun. See ya!
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You (and others like you) can keep using those same silly responses whenever someone posts something like this, but that does not change the fact that there is a not insignificant number of players that are being driven in this direction. They may not have made the actual decision yet to "jump ship", but that doesn't change the fact that some folks are actively looking for a replacement, or at least considering the possibility.
Anyone who thinks they are all the "OMG! Teh evil devs nerfed mah Rikti farmz!" players is being naive.
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It also doesn't change the fact that a lot of people are posting knee-jerk, overreactions to this similar to the one I posted earlier in the week when I said that my perception of one player greifing me on a badge mission would prevent me from ever inviting others to a badge mission team again. It won't, but that's how I felt at that moment, and I later realized it was silly, as I assume some players will realize their posts about quitting the game over the removal of some meaningless badges that didn't exist six weeks ago are.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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So defeat badges are grinding? Then all of the defeat badges should be removed? I dont think there was anything wrong with most AE badges but some needed to be changed or removed but not as many as they are doing. Does everyone not want to work for anything anymore want everything handed to them?
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Yes they are lowering the bar so that everyone can wear a badge. Making the meaning behind the badge valueless.
Why remove the badge to rescue 50 hostages? That takes some time but certainly a lot less time and energy than killing 200 toxic tarantulas. They are making MA badges meaningless because everyone will have all of them. Most players dont badge so trying to find and kill 200 toxic tarantulas isn't important, but MA is super popular so all of a sudden those badges must be very very easy to get so everyone playing MA will have them.
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Because unlike those 200 Toxic Tarantulas (which is an absurd number anyway), you could just make an MA arc with dozens of hostages in each mission and have the badge by the end. It's not like it was worth anything to begin with and just encouraged farming.
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What we're badges originally intended for?
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Personally, I see Badges as a record of what each character has done. Kind of giving a snapshot of their personality and past experiences. I have hopes that eventually, the context sensitive dialogue system will evolve into a system so that characters and storys can behave differently to characters depending on which badges the character has.
I do realise that is not the view of everyone, of course, just my perspective.
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That's how I see them and it's why I like to check the badges that players possess when looking at their info.
I find it funny that this game is so pro-communist (I am not sure what else to call it socialist maybe?). Everyone has to be the same, everything has to be "fair"
If someone wants to put more effort into something to achieve more than average, not only will that person be prevented from doing it, but he will be penalized.
If you work smarter and harder at something, you will get more rewards. That is how things work in the real world. I know it's not "fair". But seriously suck it up.
If you don't want to work for badges, then go without. Is it fair that others who "farmed" the badges have them and you don't? Yes. Yes it is. nothing stopped you from doing it too. If you don't like doing whatever it is to get something then go without.
But do not condemn those of us who want to go through the effort t of getting them
Thanks.
Edit: My main is a blaster and I do have empath.
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My thoughts are around what game to play now.
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I hear Progress Quest is pretty fun. See ya!
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You (and others like you) can keep using those same silly responses whenever someone posts something like this, but that does not change the fact that there is a not insignificant number of players that are being driven in this direction. They may not have made the actual decision yet to "jump ship", but that doesn't change the fact that some folks are actively looking for a replacement, or at least considering the possibility.
Anyone who thinks they are all the "OMG! Teh evil devs nerfed mah Rikti farmz!" players is being naive.
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1) I made my less-than-witty comment to a poster that added nothing to this conversation.
2) I then followed it up by posting my thoughts on the issue.
3) You also added nothing to this conversation. Congratulations!
I'm not usually one to post comments like the above. I just found it humorous enough that a person is willing to leave a game over a badge being removed that I guess I just felt compelled to drop the Progress Quest line. Yeah, the PQ links are probably getting old, but it is a long running MMO. 
Personally, I'm glad they are removing the Badges. It promoted farming to a degree that affected the Architect negatively. It probably wouldn't have been bad if there was only one or two differnt farm missions per badge, but there were hundreds, if not thousands. If the Devs wanted players to farm badges, don't you think they would have allowed the Kill Badges to count in the MA? It needed to be addressed and this is, imo, the best way to address it. However, if you read my post in Synapse's thread, I requested that they keep a list of the badge names so they can be used in the future as many of them are actually really, really good badge titles (Pressed the Red Button, The One, etc).
-= idspispopd =-
[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]
Promoted farming? how?
In reality all badges can encourage farming. Ouro badges can encourage farming a mission arc can be played multiple times to get all the badges for that one level range. If someone wants a badge or badges they cant get it the way they want then? They have to do it the way the Dev's want them too?