theres that word again grinding
[ QUOTE ]
Promoted farming? how?
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you not read the post? Did you get to "It promoted farming"...and then stop reading?
Do X 500 times for a Badge leads to 500 mission arcs of doing X 100 times per arc so people can 'farm' the badge in an extremely short amount of time. Thus, having these MA Badges as they were, promoted farming not in the Devs eyes, or else they wouldn't have made them, but in the players' eyes who need everything new, now.
Now, I have nothing against 'farm' missions. The problem is that the 'farmers' didn't get together and say "Here is the mission for X, here is the mission for Y." Instead, each 'farmer' made their own arc and threw it out there to the masses. Then they spammed each and every chat channel with their farms. It was bound to be noticed. Just like Dreck. Just like Warwolves. Just like Katie. Just like leveling from 1-50 in 8 hours. If they were smart, they would have organized themselves, kept quiet, and kept the clutter out of the MA. But they weren't and they got slapped. Too bad, so sad.
Edited for snarkiness. Apologies.
-= idspispopd =-
[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]
Well there was also the fact that the missions tended to last a day before they were removed by the GMs and they made badges for getting rated on missions.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
There are many sorts of people.
Some people say, "Hey, I got X. I'm happy."
Others say, "I have X and you don't. I'm happy."
I personally don't want the latter sort of person to be happy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally I'm unhappy that at best ouyr greatest accomplishments have probably already been done by someone else and are completely generic. Whats the point of even trying to excel if theres no reward for putting in the extra effort?
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
In the other thread Synapse said
". . . they were unobtainable by a large portion of our players, . . . "
SO WHAT ??? Honestly do all badges HAVE to be attainable by most players, in MA?
They certainly are not in the other badge categories. My blaster will never get Empath. Why should MA be different ??
The point of getting a BADGE is that it is difficult and rare !!!
Some Badges (not all) should NOT be attainable by MOST players.
What are your thoughts ?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd also like to point out (as this thread degenerates into various tangents) that the quoted piece may be getting taken out of context.
The actual line comes from Synapse's summary of badge changes.
In the detailed examination of changes, the only time Synapse talks about "fairness" is in relation to Chosen One and Hall Of Famer.
So what we have is a quote that *one* factor in *some* of the badge decisions was about fairness. That doesn't mean every badge has to be "equal" in some sense, it's simply a realization of why those few badges were a bad design.
Not everyone has to have every badge. But everyone needs to have the same opportunity for every badge, and Chosen One and Hall Of Famer did not present that. THAT is what Synapse's quote refers to, it doesn't refer to something like removing PVP badges because someone may personally suck at PVP.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are many sorts of people.
Some people say, "Hey, I got X. I'm happy."
Others say, "I have X and you don't. I'm happy."
I personally don't want the latter sort of person to be happy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats every bit as bad as the person who is happy because you can't have something he has.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but that's cancelled out by all the cookies wanting Ulli to be happy.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So defeat badges are grinding? Then all of the defeat badges should be removed? I dont think there was anything wrong with most AE badges but some needed to be changed or removed but not as many as they are doing. Does everyone not want to work for anything anymore want everything handed to them?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes they are lowering the bar so that everyone can wear a badge. Making the meaning behind the badge valueless.
Why remove the badge to rescue 50 hostages? That takes some time but certainly a lot less time and energy than killing 200 toxic tarantulas. They are making MA badges meaningless because everyone will have all of them. Most players dont badge so trying to find and kill 200 toxic tarantulas isn't important, but MA is super popular so all of a sudden those badges must be very very easy to get so everyone playing MA will have them.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're one of the 'I have X, you don't: I'm happy' people then.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So defeat badges are grinding? Then all of the defeat badges should be removed? I dont think there was anything wrong with most AE badges but some needed to be changed or removed but not as many as they are doing. Does everyone not want to work for anything anymore want everything handed to them?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes they are lowering the bar so that everyone can wear a badge. Making the meaning behind the badge valueless.
Why remove the badge to rescue 50 hostages? That takes some time but certainly a lot less time and energy than killing 200 toxic tarantulas. They are making MA badges meaningless because everyone will have all of them. Most players dont badge so trying to find and kill 200 toxic tarantulas isn't important, but MA is super popular so all of a sudden those badges must be very very easy to get so everyone playing MA will have them.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're one of the 'I have X, you don't: I'm happy' people then.
Eco.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't it be so much nicer if all the world were the same ?
Number 12 looks just like you
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Promoted farming? how?
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you not read the post? Did you get to "It promoted farming"...and then stop reading?
Do X 500 times for a Badge leads to 500 mission arcs of doing X 100 times per arc so people can 'farm' the badge in an extremely short amount of time. Thus, having these MA Badges as they were, promoted farming not in the Devs eyes, or else they wouldn't have made them, but in the players' eyes who need everything new, now.
Now, I have nothing against 'farm' missions. The problem is that the 'farmers' didn't get together and say "Here is the mission for X, here is the mission for Y." Instead, each 'farmer' made their own arc and threw it out there to the masses. Then they spammed each and every chat channel with their farms. It was bound to be noticed. Just like Dreck. Just like Warwolves. Just like Katie. Just like leveling from 1-50 in 8 hours. If they were smart, they would have organized themselves, kept quiet, and kept the clutter out of the MA. But they weren't and they got slapped. Too bad, so sad.
Edited for snarkiness. Apologies.
[/ QUOTE ]
But they knew about the farm missions in test and what did they do allow it to continue. They released the issue with knowing all this and yet we are the ones to lose stuff we earned?
[ QUOTE ]
Well there was also the fact that the missions tended to last a day before they were removed by the GMs and they made badges for getting rated on missions.
[/ QUOTE ]
The first part is due to the fact that the player base was complaining about the number of farms. It was actually quite difficult to find a non-farm mission unless you came to the forums (at least, it was for me). If they kept the number of farm missions to <5% of all MArcs, and kept it out of broadcast, then I highly doubt we would be in the situation we are in today.
As for the second part, I will concede that that was probably a bad move on the side of the Devs. However, during beta there were not as many people making a mission just so people could 5-star it. On the flip, there were no people in beta that became a 1-star bandit. So, while it was the player base that turned it into what it was, the Devs should have seen that just from the behavior of the forums.
-= idspispopd =-
[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]
I'd like to add that I read into both Positron's and Synapse's posts that their intent to address these badges is specific to the Mission Architect. I do not mean to say they they won't carry this practice forward in future (non-MA) badges, but they are specifically stating that they do not want the Mission Architect to be about grinding. They seem to be intent on getting to a state where people to play it because it's compelling on its own merits, not because they have to run 5000 missions to get an array of badges.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Uber, I also assumed this. Unfortunately, lots of people see a thread called 'the devs plans for Custard' and their response is 'whats this about cabbage, then?
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
As a badger myself, and one with The Chosen One for Dev's Choice, I support these changes. Just putting that in here.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So defeat badges are grinding? Then all of the defeat badges should be removed? I dont think there was anything wrong with most AE badges but some needed to be changed or removed but not as many as they are doing. Does everyone not want to work for anything anymore want everything handed to them?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes they are lowering the bar so that everyone can wear a badge. Making the meaning behind the badge valueless.
Why remove the badge to rescue 50 hostages? That takes some time but certainly a lot less time and energy than killing 200 toxic tarantulas. They are making MA badges meaningless because everyone will have all of them. Most players dont badge so trying to find and kill 200 toxic tarantulas isn't important, but MA is super popular so all of a sudden those badges must be very very easy to get so everyone playing MA will have them.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're one of the 'I have X, you don't: I'm happy' people then.
Eco.
[/ QUOTE ]
For me at least, its more of a "I have x that few people have because I did something to earn it"
This sort of change is basically being told to my face "don't bother trying to excel and put your best arc ideas to digital paper and work tirelessly to make them as perfect as possible. after all, just get 20 buddies to 5star you and you have all the authoring badges"
Its a nice change if you're a badger or don't care at all about recognition. Its a morale killer if you actually liked being able to be proud of your accomplishments.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to add that I read into both Positron's and Synapse's posts that their intent to address these badges is specific to the Mission Architect. I do not mean to say they they won't carry this practice forward in future (non-MA) badges, but they are specifically stating that they do not want the Mission Architect to be about grinding. They seem to be intent on getting to a state where people to play it because it's compelling on its own merits, not because they have to run 5000 missions to get an array of badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Emphasis Mine:
good luck to them on that because I dont see it happening. The primary activity there is still inf/ticket farming
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So defeat badges are grinding? Then all of the defeat badges should be removed? I dont think there was anything wrong with most AE badges but some needed to be changed or removed but not as many as they are doing. Does everyone not want to work for anything anymore want everything handed to them?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes they are lowering the bar so that everyone can wear a badge. Making the meaning behind the badge valueless.
Why remove the badge to rescue 50 hostages? That takes some time but certainly a lot less time and energy than killing 200 toxic tarantulas. They are making MA badges meaningless because everyone will have all of them. Most players dont badge so trying to find and kill 200 toxic tarantulas isn't important, but MA is super popular so all of a sudden those badges must be very very easy to get so everyone playing MA will have them.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're one of the 'I have X, you don't: I'm happy' people then.
Eco.
[/ QUOTE ]
For me at least, its more of a "I have x that few people have because I did something to earn it"
This sort of change is basically being told to my face "don't bother trying to excel and put your best arc ideas to digital paper and work tirelessly to make them as perfect as possible. after all, just get 20 buddies to 5star you and you have all the authoring badges"
Its a nice change if you're a badger or don't care at all about recognition. Its a morale killer if you actually liked being able to be proud of your accomplishments.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you need a reward to be proud? I am plenty proud of my Arc, regardless of how many people play it, or if I ever get any variety of recognition for it.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So defeat badges are grinding? Then all of the defeat badges should be removed? I dont think there was anything wrong with most AE badges but some needed to be changed or removed but not as many as they are doing. Does everyone not want to work for anything anymore want everything handed to them?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes they are lowering the bar so that everyone can wear a badge. Making the meaning behind the badge valueless.
Why remove the badge to rescue 50 hostages? That takes some time but certainly a lot less time and energy than killing 200 toxic tarantulas. They are making MA badges meaningless because everyone will have all of them. Most players dont badge so trying to find and kill 200 toxic tarantulas isn't important, but MA is super popular so all of a sudden those badges must be very very easy to get so everyone playing MA will have them.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're one of the 'I have X, you don't: I'm happy' people then.
Eco.
[/ QUOTE ]
For me at least, its more of a "I have x that few people have because I did something to earn it"
This sort of change is basically being told to my face "don't bother trying to excel and put your best arc ideas to digital paper and work tirelessly to make them as perfect as possible. after all, just get 20 buddies to 5star you and you have all the authoring badges"
Its a nice change if you're a badger or don't care at all about recognition. Its a morale killer if you actually liked being able to be proud of your accomplishments.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you need a reward to be proud? I am plenty proud of my Arc, regardless of how many people play it, or if I ever get any variety of recognition for it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Amazing how many people are saintly on message boards and how few are in real life.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So defeat badges are grinding? Then all of the defeat badges should be removed? I dont think there was anything wrong with most AE badges but some needed to be changed or removed but not as many as they are doing. Does everyone not want to work for anything anymore want everything handed to them?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes they are lowering the bar so that everyone can wear a badge. Making the meaning behind the badge valueless.
Why remove the badge to rescue 50 hostages? That takes some time but certainly a lot less time and energy than killing 200 toxic tarantulas. They are making MA badges meaningless because everyone will have all of them. Most players dont badge so trying to find and kill 200 toxic tarantulas isn't important, but MA is super popular so all of a sudden those badges must be very very easy to get so everyone playing MA will have them.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're one of the 'I have X, you don't: I'm happy' people then.
Eco.
[/ QUOTE ]
For me at least, its more of a "I have x that few people have because I did something to earn it"
This sort of change is basically being told to my face "don't bother trying to excel and put your best arc ideas to digital paper and work tirelessly to make them as perfect as possible. after all, just get 20 buddies to 5star you and you have all the authoring badges"
Its a nice change if you're a badger or don't care at all about recognition. Its a morale killer if you actually liked being able to be proud of your accomplishments.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you need a reward to be proud? I am plenty proud of my Arc, regardless of how many people play it, or if I ever get any variety of recognition for it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm proud of my arc, sure. 426 votes and rising and 4 stars? I'm amazed its done that well.
But frankly, I liked being able to wear my badges I earned proudly. it let me see in a tangble form without checking the AE terminal or my PMs that someone out there liked my writing style.
Now it feels like I'm being victimized and unfairly discrminated simply to appease beefcake and friends. As well as to punish the few who used the system to get badges superfast. Now i know what the farmers felt like when Posi made his hissyfit over the exploiters.
And like another fan said, not everyone is as saintly as you. Some of us DO enjoy the occasional ego boost or reward not everyone else gets. Not to mention, in the real world, working hard tends to get you rewarded. Apparently the Lord recluse philosophy reigns in CoH world.
I think the best way to summarize my feelings is out of a disney movie. "And when everybody's super, nobody will be"
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
I'm proud of my arc, sure. 426 votes and rising and 4 stars? I'm amazed its done that well.
But frankly, I liked being able to wear my badges I earned proudly. it let me see in a tangble form without checking the AE terminal or my PMs that someone out there liked my writing style.
[/ QUOTE ]
but why a badge?
how about starting a suggestion thread about gold above-name titles for your reward? or a popup window that lets you see your ratings from anywhere? or another permanent temp costume power? or a dashboard bobblehead sitting atop your powers tray to make you feel rewarded? or a special costume piece? or ask again for power color customization and request it be tied to architect writing capability? or anything else. Why does it have to be a badge when other options could also satisfy your desire for a more visible, any-location indictor?
Now, the converse of that, of course, is asking why is it a problem being a badge? Well, that's been covered repeatedly since Chosen One was announced: because a significant number of people have an issue with it. Kind of how a significant number of people would have an issue if the reward for your writing capability was an accolade power that buffed your damage. It'd be a poor reward choice, people would have issues with giving out extra power arbitrarily. Sure, those permanent costume powers arent' exactly obtainable by everyone, but you don't get nearly as much fuss over them as you have with Chosen One - and the art of good GM'ing is knowing how to please all your players in a balanced manner.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm proud of my arc, sure. 426 votes and rising and 4 stars? I'm amazed its done that well.
But frankly, I liked being able to wear my badges I earned proudly. it let me see in a tangble form without checking the AE terminal or my PMs that someone out there liked my writing style.
[/ QUOTE ]
but why a badge?
how about starting a suggestion thread about gold above-name titles for your reward? or a popup window that lets you see your ratings from anywhere? or another permanent temp costume power? or a dashboard bobblehead sitting atop your powers tray to make you feel rewarded? or a special costume piece? or ask again for power color customization and request it be tied to architect writing capability? or anything else. Why does it have to be a badge when other options could also satisfy your desire for a more visible, any-location indictor?
Now, the converse of that, of course, is asking why is it a problem being a badge? Well, that's been covered repeatedly since Chosen One was announced: because a significant number of people have an issue with it. Kind of how a significant number of people would have an issue if the reward for your writing capability was an accolade power that buffed your damage. It'd be a poor reward choice, people would have issues with giving out extra power arbitrarily. Sure, those permanent costume powers arent' exactly obtainable by everyone, but you don't get nearly as much fuss over them as you have with Chosen One - and the art of good GM'ing is knowing how to please all your players in a balanced manner.
[/ QUOTE ]
because you know as well as I do that a gold title or special power would get just as many screaming angry "me too's"
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
because you know as well as I do that a gold title or special power would get just as many screaming angry "me too's"
[/ QUOTE ]
As I already stated in my post, I cite the permanent costume powers as an example of a non-equal distribution of a bonus that doesn't have nearly the problems Bug Hunter has had. I feel a non-badge reward (on top of the "hey, look, my name is on the Dev Choice arc" reward in itself) would not have as much fuss.
Can you point me to a thread about the anniversary gold titles being unfair? If there is, is it as bad as what's in Positron's thread about I14 badges that started the Chosen One debate immediately?
Is there *any* example of another type of reward that the game gives that has had the amount of complaining that Chosen One or Bug Hunter get? Even the horribly unpredictable drop distribution of Purples isn't much of a serious problem.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
because you know as well as I do that a gold title or special power would get just as many screaming angry "me too's"
[/ QUOTE ]
As I already stated in my post, I cite the permanent costume powers as an example of a non-equal distribution of a bonus that doesn't have nearly the problems Bug Hunter has had. I feel a non-badge reward (on top of the "hey, look, my name is on the Dev Choice arc" reward in itself) would not have as much fuss.
Can you point me to a thread about the anniversary gold titles being unfair? If there is, is it as bad as what's in Positron's thread about I14 badges that started the Chosen One debate immediately?
Is there *any* example of another type of reward that the game gives that has had the amount of complaining that Chosen One or Bug Hunter get? Even the horribly unpredictable drop distribution of Purples isn't much of a serious problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
Theyre more known because theres a lot more people who know of badges than even know the costume powers exist
As for the purple drop rate..you apparently dont read the market forum much. almost every week we get a thread where someone whines about how unfair it is that "greedy profit [censored] bastards raise prices on the markets so average players cant ever get IOs or purples. plz nerf it devs".
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
because you know as well as I do that a gold title or special power would get just as many screaming angry "me too's"
[/ QUOTE ]
As I already stated in my post, I cite the permanent costume powers as an example of a non-equal distribution of a bonus that doesn't have nearly the problems Bug Hunter has had. I feel a non-badge reward (on top of the "hey, look, my name is on the Dev Choice arc" reward in itself) would not have as much fuss.
Can you point me to a thread about the anniversary gold titles being unfair? If there is, is it as bad as what's in Positron's thread about I14 badges that started the Chosen One debate immediately?
Is there *any* example of another type of reward that the game gives that has had the amount of complaining that Chosen One or Bug Hunter get? Even the horribly unpredictable drop distribution of Purples isn't much of a serious problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
Theyre more known because theres a lot more people who know of badges than even know the costume powers exist
As for the purple drop rate..you apparently dont read the market forum much. almost every week we get a thread where someone whines about how unfair it is that "greedy profit [censored] bastards raise prices on the markets so average players cant ever get IOs or purples. plz nerf it devs".
[/ QUOTE ]
The purple drop rate is probably the single biggest issue, and its one I wish they would nerf by upping it. No way something that enjoyable will happen though.
[ QUOTE ]
The purple drop rate is probably the single biggest issue, and its one I wish they would nerf by upping it. No way something that enjoyable will happen though.
[/ QUOTE ]
I for one move to have the purple drop rate become a 0% chance... but I am in the minority, I guess. Purples and IOs have fueled much of the greed in this game that has gone about breaking other aspects of this game. Can you say Merits? They wouldn't exist if people hadn't exploited TFs the way that they did (and still do) just to get a reward.
Because people wanted to get it over with so they could go back to grinding 2 billion inf?
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World