Do badges HAVE to be "fair" ??

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The purple drop rate is probably the single biggest issue, and its one I wish they would nerf by upping it. No way something that enjoyable will happen though.

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I for one move to have the purple drop rate become a 0% chance... but I am in the minority, I guess. Purples and IOs have fueled much of the greed in this game that has gone about breaking other aspects of this game. Can you say Merits? They wouldn't exist if people hadn't exploited TFs the way that they did (and still do) just to get a reward.

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Well the people that object to your opinion are being driven out of the game so you may get your wish.

Me, I really wouldn't want claim that I played in the special olympics of MMOGs

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The purple drop rate is probably the single biggest issue, and its one I wish they would nerf by upping it. No way something that enjoyable will happen though.

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I for one move to have the purple drop rate become a 0% chance... but I am in the minority, I guess. Purples and IOs have fueled much of the greed in this game that has gone about breaking other aspects of this game. Can you say Merits? They wouldn't exist if people hadn't exploited TFs the way that they did (and still do) just to get a reward.

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Oh please.

You honestly can say you would be just as likely to run Doc Quarterfield as Katie Hannon given the amount of time to do either, and so would 6-8 other people?

peoiple chainrunning Katies for high reward didnt ruin the KHTF, it was ruined to begin with because the damned thing was always brokenly huge reward for the time spent in comparison to everything else.

if anything, merits made it way easier for the casual nonfarmer to get more shots at rare recipes without having to focus on only doing katies.

Not to mention I hate people who have this holier than thou attitude as though the game was some magical paradise of equalness before IOs and the advente of the market turned the game into a [censored] dystopia where a privileged few sip wine and dine on the innards of innocent children while the poor huddled masses beg for scraps. I was here before then, i assure you, it was not. If anything, the IO system and the market made this game a billion times more newbie friendly. These days all you have to do to afford SOs is dump a few common salvages either gotten via regular missions or the AE, supplement it with a lucky merit roll or two, and unless you wanna start playing the market for money and IO sets, you're set to level 50.

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Not to mention I hate people who have this holier than thou attitude as though the game was some magical paradise of equalness before IOs and the advente of the market turned the game into a [censored] dystopia where a privileged few sip wine and dine on the innards of innocent children while the poor huddled masses beg for scraps. I was here before then, i assure you, it was not. If anything, the IO system and the market made this game a billion times more newbie friendly. These days all you have to do to afford SOs is dump a few common salvages either gotten via regular missions or the AE, supplement it with a lucky merit roll or two, and unless you wanna start playing the market for money and IO sets, you're set to level 50.

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You must be smoking crack if you honestly think this is true.
The market IS what broke this game. I have been playing for 32 months and before IOs I received ZERO emails from RMT total. Total. Now I receive four a day. The market IS what created huge inequalities in the game.

You dont think there are a privileged few with a lot while the masses beg for scraps?? Are you [censored] kidding me?? Go to Recluses Victory and click on some lvl 50s and see the list of set bonuses, they are too long to fit in the window, then go to PI and click on just as many 50s and you will see lists a fraction of the size.

If you honestly believe what I quoted, and I think you dont believe it you are just trying to get a rise out of someone, but if you do believe it, you are really out of touch with reality.

If fair is defined as equal opportunity, then we get minor changes to the MA badge system to level the opportunity playing field.

If fair is defined as equal outcome, they we get more significant changes to the MA badge system.

This changes seems to indicate the Dev's are more inclined to view fair as equal outcomes for all players.

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The market IS what broke this game. I have been playing for 32 months and before IOs I received ZERO emails from RMT total. Total. Now I receive four a day. The market IS what created huge inequalities in the game.

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The market did not break the game. In fact, it was more than likely a huge factor in the long term success of the CoH franchise. MMO players like loot. They like tweaking and making their characters better. Adding a market and the invention system was a necessary step by the dev team.

While this is certainly a limited perspective based on my own playstyle, this game would not have held my attention for more than a couple months were it not for the market & invention system. Most of the people I play with in-game are the same way.

I've skipped most of the debate in this thread, but here's my 2inf:

I always considered badges to be a reward for "grinding" in a casual oriented game. So a casual player could level from 1-50 and probably not even get 100 badges, I'm willing to GRIND to get all the badges I can. The badge is my reward for extra hard work beyond simply playing and leveling. I did find some of the MA badges unfair: the ones where another player (or dev) could affect my badge progress. However, the rest I EARNED by GRINDING in a game that isn't "grindy". With Synapse's post I now believe the devs are simply taking the "hard-work" aspect out of badging to be fair to more casual players. And this will actually kill what keeps me busy between issues.

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Not to mention I hate people who have this holier than thou attitude as though the game was some magical paradise of equalness before IOs and the advente of the market turned the game into a [censored] dystopia where a privileged few sip wine and dine on the innards of innocent children while the poor huddled masses beg for scraps. I was here before then, i assure you, it was not. If anything, the IO system and the market made this game a billion times more newbie friendly. These days all you have to do to afford SOs is dump a few common salvages either gotten via regular missions or the AE, supplement it with a lucky merit roll or two, and unless you wanna start playing the market for money and IO sets, you're set to level 50.

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You must be smoking crack if you honestly think this is true.
The market IS what broke this game. I have been playing for 32 months and before IOs I received ZERO emails from RMT total. Total. Now I receive four a day. The market IS what created huge inequalities in the game.

You dont think there are a privileged few with a lot while the masses beg for scraps?? Are you [censored] kidding me?? Go to Recluses Victory and click on some lvl 50s and see the list of set bonuses, they are too long to fit in the window, then go to PI and click on just as many 50s and you will see lists a fraction of the size.

If you honestly believe what I quoted, and I think you dont believe it you are just trying to get a rise out of someone, but if you do believe it, you are really out of touch with reality.

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1: RMT does not prove the game is broke. RMT are not fun, but theyre easily ignorable.

2: I have a huge list of set bonuses. a lot of my friends do too. We're all hardcore roleplayers. Most of us never farm, and spend most of our spare time soloing, teaming with the SG, or sitting in the SG base typing in local about our day at our make believe school.

3. The market is about as hard to make money on as taking a dump. The only possible way to lose money instead of make it hand over fist is to be one of those morons who needs everything RITE NAO and cant stand the idea of putting in a few lowball bids and sitting on them for a week until they are filled.

I don't farm. I don't pvp. I rarely even play my 50's. I still have at least 6 characters with over 50 million influence and a few hundred million in IO sets.

See, thats the hilarious part to this game. The ONLY way to be part of the poor huddled masses, is to be too damned lazy to use basic logic about the concepts of patience and buying low and selling high.

But I'll be nice and give you a hint. compare the prices of a high demand recipe with its crafted enhancement counterpart in price. Then you'll see this is not a game where money is hard to make. Its a game where theres so much spare cash that the average moron will fling an extra 30 million at you just to not be bothered with crafting.

Not that you'll believe me or listen to me anyway because people like you are always too dense and caught up in your lazy whining for equality because "omg y cant I haz purples for free"

Oh. and furthermore, theres a reason why 50's in RV have more set bonuses than those in PI.

Most people in PI powerlevelled their way to 50.

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Oh. and furthermore, theres a reason why 50's in RV have more set bonuses than those in PI.

Most people in PI powerlevelled their way to 50.

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So did most people in RV. They're just better at it.

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Oh. and furthermore, theres a reason why 50's in RV have more set bonuses than those in PI.

Most people in PI powerlevelled their way to 50.

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So did most people in RV. They're just better at it.

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True. My point in general was simply that a retarded monkey could play the market. Anyone saying there's have and have nots in this game is simply lazy.

i would have thought its more that set bonuses matter to some degree in RV, but the pve game is so easy that they really are not necessary, but thats probably crazy talk.

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i would have thought its more that set bonuses matter to some degree in RV, but the pve game is so easy that they really are not necessary, but thats probably crazy talk.

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Necessary? Maybe not. Fun to have? Heck yeah.

And considering some of the whining on the market forums, some people apparently do think they absolutely NEED a purpled-out Warshade.

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i would have thought its more that set bonuses matter to some degree in RV, but the pve game is so easy that they really are not necessary, but thats probably crazy talk.

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Necessary? Maybe not. Fun to have? Heck yeah.

And considering some of the whining on the market forums, some people apparently do think they absolutely NEED a purpled-out Warshade.

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Nah.. Purpled out Warshades are only for the n00b casual players.

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i would have thought its more that set bonuses matter to some degree in RV, but the pve game is so easy that they really are not necessary, but thats probably crazy talk.

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Necessary? Maybe not. Fun to have? Heck yeah.

And considering some of the whining on the market forums, some people apparently do think they absolutely NEED a purpled-out Warshade.

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Of course. its totally not fair that someone who spent months purpling out a shade can fight even 1% more efficiently than johnny uses only SOs, I can only have fun if I'm the absolute best with no work. >_>

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Not to mention I hate people who have this holier than thou attitude as though the game was some magical paradise of equalness before IOs and the advente of the market turned the game into a [censored] dystopia where a privileged few sip wine and dine on the innards of innocent children while the poor huddled masses beg for scraps. I was here before then, i assure you, it was not. If anything, the IO system and the market made this game a billion times more newbie friendly. These days all you have to do to afford SOs is dump a few common salvages either gotten via regular missions or the AE, supplement it with a lucky merit roll or two, and unless you wanna start playing the market for money and IO sets, you're set to level 50.

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You must be smoking crack if you honestly think this is true.
The market IS what broke this game. I have been playing for 32 months and before IOs I received ZERO emails from RMT total. Total. Now I receive four a day. The market IS what created huge inequalities in the game.

You dont think there are a privileged few with a lot while the masses beg for scraps?? Are you [censored] kidding me?? Go to Recluses Victory and click on some lvl 50s and see the list of set bonuses, they are too long to fit in the window, then go to PI and click on just as many 50s and you will see lists a fraction of the size.

If you honestly believe what I quoted, and I think you dont believe it you are just trying to get a rise out of someone, but if you do believe it, you are really out of touch with reality.

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1: RMT does not prove the game is broke. RMT are not fun, but theyre easily ignorable.

2: I have a huge list of set bonuses. a lot of my friends do too. We're all hardcore roleplayers. Most of us never farm, and spend most of our spare time soloing, teaming with the SG, or sitting in the SG base typing in local about our day at our make believe school.

3. The market is about as hard to make money on as taking a dump. The only possible way to lose money instead of make it hand over fist is to be one of those morons who needs everything RITE NAO and cant stand the idea of putting in a few lowball bids and sitting on them for a week until they are filled.

I don't farm. I don't pvp. I rarely even play my 50's. I still have at least 6 characters with over 50 million influence and a few hundred million in IO sets.

See, thats the hilarious part to this game. The ONLY way to be part of the poor huddled masses, is to be too damned lazy to use basic logic about the concepts of patience and buying low and selling high.

But I'll be nice and give you a hint. compare the prices of a high demand recipe with its crafted enhancement counterpart in price. Then you'll see this is not a game where money is hard to make. Its a game where theres so much spare cash that the average moron will fling an extra 30 million at you just to not be bothered with crafting.

Not that you'll believe me or listen to me anyway because people like you are always too dense and caught up in your lazy whining for equality because "omg y cant I haz purples for free"

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Thank you for agreeing with me. The Devs have not gifted every character with a bunch of purple sets because a tiny minority have begged to get them for free. However, they are going to remove a huge list of badges from people who have taken the time and energy to earn them, because a tiny minority of whinners want them gifted to them. They are leaving in MA badges that take no time or energy to get.

The game is not balanced. As you said very lazy people dont have piles of money. However, now very lazy people can have badges. You and I see eye to eye on this. If you want to take time to learn to win in the market you are rewarded, lazy people are not. I feel the same should apply to badges, and the reason I started this thread, lazy people should not be awarded badges.

If you didn't read the OP and started in the middle somewhere, I do NOT want equality. That was kind of the point.

There is a world of difference between "fairness" and "equality." Everyone has the same opportunities to get purples as I do. This is fair. My opportunities to get an expensive commodity are not limited by how many friends I have, whether I like the same stuff as the Devs, or anything beyond my ability to earn inf. If I have them and you don't, I can tell you exactly how to get them. If you put in the effort I did, you will have them. Fair. The same goes for the "grindy" badges. Obnoxious, poorly thought out, but ultimately fair.

My chances at Dev's Choice and Hall of Fame are entirely dependent on how many friends I have, whether I like the same stuff as the Devs, and luck. In other words, a lot of factors besides my ability to create a good arc. If my arc is as good as yours but a Dev just happens to play yours instead of mine, you get Dev's Choice and I don't. Not fair.

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There is a world of difference between "fairness" and "equality." Everyone has the same opportunities to get purples as I do. This is fair. My opportunities to get an expensive commodity are not limited by how many friends I have, whether I like the same stuff as the Devs, or anything beyond my ability to earn inf. If I have them and you don't, I can tell you exactly how to get them. If you put in the effort I did, you will have them. Fair. The same goes for the "grindy" badges. Obnoxious, poorly thought out, but ultimately fair.

My chances at Dev's Choice and Hall of Fame are entirely dependent on how many friends I have, whether I like the same stuff as the Devs, and luck. In other words, a lot of factors besides my ability to create a good arc. If my arc is as good as yours but a Dev just happens to play yours instead of mine, you get Dev's Choice and I don't. Not fair.

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Agreed. Completely in agreement with you on those two badges. Not the other 87 though.

The other 87 are, ultimately, fair. Except the "play x Hall of Fame" line, as the system currently stands, since other people's actions can keep you from getting them. Some of them are still pretty dumb, namely the higher-end virtual ones.

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My chances at Dev's Choice and Hall of Fame are entirely dependent on how many friends I have, whether I like the same stuff as the Devs, and luck. In other words, a lot of factors besides my ability to create a good arc. If my arc is as good as yours but a Dev just happens to play yours instead of mine, you get Dev's Choice and I don't. Not fair.

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Agreed. Completely in agreement with you on those two badges. Not the other 87 though.

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well, technically, the Recognized line is just as unfair as Hall of Famer. So that's up to 7.
and I could make a case that the Author line is just as bad, unless you can grind your own arc on an alt in order to get those badges - and at that point they're at least "pointless" grindy badges and no one would miss them anyways.

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The other 87 are, ultimately, fair. Except the "play x Hall of Fame" line, as the system currently stands, since other people's actions can keep you from getting them. Some of them are still pretty dumb, namely the higher-end virtual ones.

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we're talking about the Evaluator line.
I think that badge is unfair to the authors, not to the badgers. The added reward for HOF arcs favors running those arcs on the merit of their existing ratings, instead of running any arc on its own merits.
It's a "rich get richer" mentality, and that's a lousy side-effect of the badge, so the badge is a bad design. The same way a badge for kill stealing would be a bad design even if fairly available to anyone.

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I think there is a distinction between badges that can't be got by all players and badges that can't be got by all characters. Not all characters will have all badges, thats fair enough. (if you don't heal you don't get a healing badge). But any player can make a character that heals, so any player can get some healing badges.

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Except for bug hunter (and arguably Dev Choice and HOF), what badge is out there that all players can't get? My MM is doing pretty well on badges, I just respec her as needed for the badge I am aiming for.

Obviously there are anniversary and event badges, COV or COH specific badges, but almost all badges are achievable by everyone. And ESPECIALLY in MA, they are achievable by all. Search through the 10s of thousands of MA arcs till you find one that helps you get a badge, I do hates doing the HOF badges tho.

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The other 87 are, ultimately, fair. Except the "play x Hall of Fame" line, as the system currently stands, since other people's actions can keep you from getting them. Some of them are still pretty dumb, namely the higher-end virtual ones.

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we're talking about the Evaluator line.
I think that badge is unfair to the authors, not to the badgers. The added reward for HOF arcs favors running those arcs on the merit of their existing ratings, instead of running any arc on its own merits.
It's a "rich get richer" mentality, and that's a lousy side-effect of the badge, so the badge is a bad design. The same way a badge for kill stealing would be a bad design even if fairly available to anyone.

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It's also unfair to anyone trying to get it, since ratings griefers can pull an arc out of HoF and prevent you from getting the badge. But you're right, it does encourage people to vote a single arc into HoF NAO, rather than trying multiple arcs in the hopes that there will be many HoFs further down the line.

(on Evaluator)
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It's also unfair to anyone trying to get it, since ratings griefers can pull an arc out of HoF and prevent you from getting the badge.

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Well that's a mechanical flaw. The badge is broken, compounded by some flaws in the very system the badge is trying to be based on (ratings shouldn't be that vulnerable even without a badge involved).
If the badge was functioning as designed, I think the badge would be "fair". However, I would still think the badge would be a very poor design.

I guess what I'm saying is:
something like the griefablity of the Arsonist badge are not the same type of "fairness" that I thought this thread was referencing.

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But you're right, it does encourage people to vote a single arc into HoF NAO, rather than trying multiple arcs in the hopes that there will be many HoFs further down the line.

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What I was trying to express was more the problem of getting your own arc played. If people need to do HOF arcs for a badge, how does a new arc even get voted into the HOF? There's an imbalance of reward towards those that are already HOF, in the form of extra badge progress.
Imagine of HOF arc produced more tickets than non-HOF, would that be fair to authors if people running arcs had a choice of more rewards from established arcs?
I guess a way to sum it up: HOF should be a label on an arc, it should never factor into the system itself.

Now, badge progress for running Devs Choice... that I don't think is imbalanced vs no progress for other arcs. Devs Choice have enough of a difference in reward mechanics that different badge rewards on top of that is either unnoticable, or simply viewed as a trade-off.
(Course, I don't think the system should have a Devs Choice category anywhere near the ticket system. I think Dev Choice missions should be yanked out of the MA list entirely and given to normal contacts.)

Some of the badges criteria are not fair. And I've since given up on them.
Ever since I found out that more scrappers have the empath badge (for healing) than a defender... that threw logic out of the window for me then and there.

Those scrappers got their healing badge from the longbow warden in the arena heal farm. Without doing any healing themselves. So how the heck is this fair eh? They might as well hand out honorary awards to the melee types for other powers that are not in their power sets.

My 2 year old empath defender only got her 4th healing badge recently. And she does not have the pvp rep badges. And she is my main.

My dominator got the first healing badge from using aid other. Aid other dammit. You got any idea how long that took me? Then I found out about the arena farm, and I had a subsequent tantrum. And yes, my dominator (my main villain) also does not have the pvp rep badges.

Until glaringly ludicrous issues like this are sorted out, I don't ever see badges as being fair.

Oh and don't even get me started on all the players who got their pill box and heavy badges prior to those exploits being fixed. >_< along with other retrospective nerfs. This is why I have given up on the badge hunt.