It's just you. Against properly-equipped players it's still "lolfly."
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I don't think fly has gotten any more popular in PvP. Although it's always been popular for me, I have it on all my PvP toons, but my tanker.
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It's just you. Against properly-equipped players it's still "lolfly."
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lolMacskull.
idk... i was on a random villian on virtue and there was a WHOLE team of flyers..... made me wish i had IOed the toon out and had a decent build on it... it was sad really
Sorry but you don't have the right to LOL anyone with comments like these.
LOL The_Reactor at his/her (whatever it is) best. Read and behold the almighty intellect and wisdom.
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Hmmm...I still play the exact same toons I've always played in pvp: my nrg/nrg blaster, my MA/SR scrapper, my rad/rad defender, my human only PB, my empath/psi defender, my nrg/dev blaster, my fire/nrg tanker, and I just added an ice/storm controller (without hurricane) to the mix.
I remember the old pvp and how unbalanced it was. The toggle dropping and the unresistable damage. I remember how devastating the old ET was, and it was unfairly overpowered. I remember the old 40 foot range on spines and how everyone would be knocked out of the sky in old pvp (that was soooooooooooooo lame). I remember holds being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. I remember how unresistable assassin strike and the unresistable blaster damage was. I remember how fallout on my defender was uber, how I messed up 2 MMs, 3 brutes, and 4 stalkers with it (and the Vangaurd Medal FTW!!!) one time, because it was a debuff, hold, huge damage AND was unresistable. I remember how the widows were unhittable, did damage with which most people didn't have any resistance, and how overpowered they were.
I played through all of this stuff. I remember the times I would get killed over and over and over, by the same three powers on an enemy, and I could still tell the player had no skill, but they thought they were the bomb. I remember the players that I could tell did have skill, and they would be good tough to fight regardless of whether they had a FoTM build or a 'off flavor' build. They were still good; they understood tactics and how move in and out of combat. They didn't always win, but they didn't lose a lot either.
I also remember something that players like the above guy don't realize or won't accept. When a player on one toon has to do a huge number of things to get a win when another toon simply has to push 3 buttons, that's broken. Toggle-based builds are viable in PvP. In old PvP, players kept toggles to a minimum, because players want to attack and defend themselves against each other NOT attack and defend their power tray. I got killed a lot, I never won more than I lost, but I also refuse to make a spines/regen or an ice/em tanker for pvp, not because I don't want to pvp with them, it's simply taste: I like playing flying characters and with old pvp, I still played flying toons, and I suffered with them. But that's what I wanted to play. And a spiner or ice tank or ice blaster doesn't interest me...I repeat, it just ain't my cup of tea. The players that play them builds love 'em, well, I love my flying scrapper thank you very much.
Villain Epic ATs are wonderful. The devs did a great job of making them very good. Unfortunately in the old PvP, the hero ATs really stunk in PvP, unless they had an empathy defender with them. The entire heroside was totally dependent on having empaths. Once the empaths left the zone, the heroes were at a marked disadvantage, this too was broken.
I laughed at all the players that complained about ED and the GDN; because I knew way back then, the devs had something coming that was wonderful: IOs. And now I laugh at the pvp whiners; the devs actually do know what they are doing. PvP is fair now. The players that are complaining are simply the players that had an unfair advantage in pvp, not because they were better (they were definitely NOT better) at pvp, it was simply they got a 'built in' advantage just because they chose certain powers with which to pvp. Players like me, that build their character according to their 'character conception' rather than always taking phase shift, because it allows escape, and always taking hybernate, for the same reason, or taking the sharks pool, just because its 'the pvp thing to do', play a 'notch down' in power because we want to play our characters in pvp the way we want to play, not because we have to have the same sets all the 'clone' pvp players use.
So, in conclusion, if you make a FoTM, more power too you. But expect players, especially champions pen and paper players, to take your statements with a grain of salt. Because when I see a FoTM in pvp with a toon name that has nothing to do with comic books built just like every other FoTM, I know you aren't very good. Or when a player makes a toon whose name is intended to insult other players, you wouldn't last 15 minutes in my champions campaign, you got nothin'. So the players that are complaining that new pvp is horrible...good for you, there are a lot of other things in the game to do. Have fun.
But there are players out there that love their characters and love pvp. And those players want to play. They don't care if they win or lose, but they do want a fair fight and know that the outcome is not predetermined before the first shot is even fired. And if you try to put words in my mouth, or flame me for what I'm saying, I'll laugh at you for that too. I know what my toons can do and win or lose I also can tell if another player is any good. Just like Seraph said in the Matrix: "You can never trully know someone, until you fight them."
Hehehehe...This guy has got a good read on PvP, unlike the whiners in the "Can we fix PvP" thread. Hey Ares, I'd like to put a toon in your SG as well: global - @galactor.
IOing out your toon for pvp is expensive, BUT a player can PvP just fine with SOs and do quite well if you team with a buffer or two. Nothing equals out IO set disparities better than a good buff or two. Then, while teamed with a buffer, when you get a pvp IO drop or two you can sell em for big bucks and use the funds to fully IO out your pvp toon. Good luck and have fun. PvP is a blast...it's what I do with my toons mostly, I love it so much.
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A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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Hehehehe...This guy has got a good read on PvP, unlike the whiners in the "Can we fix PvP" thread. Hey Ares, I'd like to put a toon in your SG as well: global - @galactor.
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I agree with you on the PVP issue My Blaster is the same as he was the day he hit 50 with exception of the IO Sets. I like to play him the way i built him. I PVP occaisionally. Win some lose some. I think the cry babies wanting PVP fixed mean that they want an UBER power set that can destroy anything. I think that if the devs nerfed ICE/ICE blasters to the point they could defeat anything in PVP today tomorrow every hard core PVP'er would have an ICE/ICE Blaster. It cheapens the fun for the majority( and yes I said MAJORITY) who would like to PVP or just be able to go into RV for badges without haveing someone PONE you over and over. At least now they are strating to think twice. There are a few things that are still broken but slowly and surely they are getting fixed. 
PVP should be about skill just as much as it is about POWER. And it should be on an even footing. Having single BROKEN Powers and Broken untouchable Defenses that any NOOB can exploit is not PVP. Sorry!
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It's just you. Against properly-equipped players it's still "lolfly."
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Fly can be "teh fuN" though lol 
i think devs hired ppl like cynic and reactor....<_<
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PVP should be about skill just as much as it is about POWER. And it should be on an even footing. Having single BROKEN Powers and Broken untouchable Defenses that any NOOB can exploit is not PVP. Sorry!
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Sorry, but if you think PvP prei13 was all about broken powers/untouchable defense before - then you clearly have a severe lack of understanding of the old system.
PvP in i12 was rock/paper/scissors in 1v1 situations. If I had a controller, I could beat a tank, but I could be beat by a stalker or blaster. If I was a stalker or blaster, I could be beat by a tank/scrapper.
Why in the world would any sane person assume that you should be able to beat every single AT you come across, when their main mitigation goes right through a hole you have. If I am paper, why in the world would I assume that I could beat a match? If I was a match, Why in the world should I assume that I could beat a bucket of water?
If I was in a zone 2v1, Why in the world would I assume that I should bea ble to survive when, even in PvE, I might not be able to survive a spawn set for 2 people? Why do people assume that 8 person ballanced team should not appear immortal to people who are disorganized and solo?
In PvE, if you can't solo an 8 person spawn'd mission - what do you do? You can either quit the mission or....wait for it...Get a team!
MMO's are about Teaming. PvP used to be about teaming. Now PvP is based on a set of rules that discourages teaming. Sure you can put 5 blasters on a team and say "Hey! Look at us! We're teaming!" But that's not a team. Even comic book super teams have balance to them. The X-men team of Cyclops/storm/beast/jean/wolverine/emma is a balanced team.
PvP 1.0 had more viable archetypes and builds than PvP 2.0. This is fact. You can argue that certain builds were unplayable in PvP 1.0, and there were some. Brutes had a severe disadvantage, as did Claws scrappers - but they weren't unplayable. The only AT's that can even argue that they were unplayable in PvP 1.0 were kheldians. With the new changes to PvP. Almost any toon that requires offensive toggles is damn near unplayable. Its very frustrating having to retoggle hurricane or Rad debuffs every 10 seconds. And since anything can mez you, and no ammount of teamwork can save you from that - you are forced to spend 30% of your combat time re-toggling something that other AT's don't have to worry about.
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If I was a match, Why in the world should I assume that I could beat a bucket of water?
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If it's a plastic bucket, and you were a flying, jumping, or speeding match, you could melt parts of the bucket so that it leaks.
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If I was a match, Why in the world should I assume that I could beat a bucket of water?
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If it's a plastic bucket, and you were a flying, jumping, or speeding match, you could melt parts of the bucket so that it leaks.
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Or if the matched jumped out of the way before the water hit it? Im glad someone mentioned something like that. I would attribute that to the skill of the player playing the 'match' against the lack of skill from the 'bucket of water' Can the match win in equal conditions? Absolutely not. but if the person is very good at playing his match, he would appear to absolutely destroy the paper and even take out a bucket of water.
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I would attribute that to the skill of the player playing the 'match' against the lack of skill from the 'bucket of water' Can the match win in equal conditions? Absolutely not.
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Nice comparisons. But skill is exactly what i was talking about and this will be my last post on the subject because I have found two truths to be FACT in CoX. and that is that "1:Hard core PVP'ers are always right. and 2: They will argue until their dieing breath." I PVP and I enjoy it but its not my mainstay. I dont farm or Run TF's solely for the purpose of Furthering the existence of my PVP toons. The examples are great but the cant win in exact conditions..I agree.
But there will be and NEVER be exact conditions!
2 toons with an identicle build are still not exact. The reason being is that you have 2 different controllers at their helm! So one Fire/Ice blaster may rely on a fireball where as the other may be trying to move in to hit freezing touch etc.
Just to clarify the skill even further lets go back in time to console. Take street fighter for example. everyone has access to the same fighters and same AT's there is not a person on any type of character or AT including the boss that cannot be defeated by any in the game. One person can master all of the AT's and fares well. The next person struggles with the same toon in a match. Why? Skill of the player and mastering abilities. And yes Teaming is superior. it's more fun and lends to much more randomness.
But as for not being able to win in exact conditions we may never know becasue that will never happen as long as there are different controllers at the helm of the toons.
And as for the broken powers and defenses they need to go, to make it equal across the board.
And one more question?
If they are not being exploited to any degree why the whining at the Status equalization and why do hard core PVP'ers take certain powers (that everyone knows are broken still) as opposed to playing their toons the way they prefer or would if they werent confined to certain powersets and defenses becasue it's a PVP toon? Better yet.. Why is there a need for a distinction? (Becasue this works better than that in PVP) than in PVE And this power stinks in PVE but is broken in PVP.
I don't know about flight being more popular, but I don't like what the devs did to teleport in PvP. SS, SJ, and flight all have somewhat limited use during combat situations, but the teleport power is completely unavailable. That's effed-up. I think poeple should still be able to use TP, but it would be a much more limited range...like maybe 10-20 yards instead of 100. That way there is at least a little mobility (like there is with the other movement powers), but the suppression is still in place.
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I don't know about flight being more popular, but I don't like what the devs did to teleport in PvP. SS, SJ, and flight all have somewhat limited use during combat situations, but the teleport power is completely unavailable. That's effed-up. I think poeple should still be able to use TP, but it would be a much more limited range...like maybe 10-20 yards instead of 100. That way there is at least a little mobility (like there is with the other movement powers), but the suppression is still in place.
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iirc Castle said he would have like to do this but was unable to, there is no 'tp range' stat that can be modified by suppression, as far as I know, the game's mechanics wont allow it.
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iirc Castle said he would have like to do this but was unable to, there is no 'tp range' stat that can be modified by suppression, as far as I know, the game's mechanics wont allow it.
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I don't see why. They can scale range for blasters using both enh and (in the opposite direction) reducing it w/whirlwind. What's so different about TP? I'm sure there's some esoteric reason having to do with how the power itself is is programmed, but isn't that what the devs are for? Aren't they supposed to fidure out how to fix that?
I believe it's because the -range modifier works on the range of all powers. So if they were to shorten the range of TP, it'd shorten the range of every ranged power you have.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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Sorry but you don't have the right to LOL anyone with comments like these.
LOL The_Reactor at his/her (whatever it is) best. Read and behold the almighty intellect and wisdom.
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Hmmm...I still play the exact same toons I've always played in pvp: my nrg/nrg blaster, my MA/SR scrapper, my rad/rad defender, my human only PB, my empath/psi defender, my nrg/dev blaster, my fire/nrg tanker, and I just added an ice/storm controller (without hurricane) to the mix.
I remember the old pvp and how unbalanced it was. The toggle dropping and the unresistable damage. I remember how devastating the old ET was, and it was unfairly overpowered. I remember the old 40 foot range on spines and how everyone would be knocked out of the sky in old pvp (that was soooooooooooooo lame). I remember holds being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. I remember how unresistable assassin strike and the unresistable blaster damage was. I remember how fallout on my defender was uber, how I messed up 2 MMs, 3 brutes, and 4 stalkers with it (and the Vangaurd Medal FTW!!!) one time, because it was a debuff, hold, huge damage AND was unresistable. I remember how the widows were unhittable, did damage with which most people didn't have any resistance, and how overpowered they were.
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That is an epic post and it's given me a lot to think about. I've been down on I14 PvP lately, maybe I shouldn't be.
Elusivity is broken, though. 
The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
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Is it just me, or has Flight become really popular all of a sudden? More popular than Super Speed, Super Jump and Teleport?
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It's just you, and the fact that currently some of the more effective toons prefer to use Fly vs. SJ, namely Ranged attack builds like Corr/Def/Blaster/Doms. All the rest still use SJ as the main backed up with a Flightpack temp.
"It is that balance, the ground between EB and AV, where the PvP struggle should exist. Where a 1v1 becomes a struggle of equals, and 1vMany gives the benefit to the 1."
Freedom: Fireocity, Electro Imp, Gotya
Infinity: Meteor Storm, Mutai Kid, General Bot, Da Smasher
When I see a flying toon on my blaster its really easy. Position yourself midway between flier and ground. Activate boost range, then snowstorm. This is the part where you kill them. Shriek scream shiek STUN and SHOUT right before they hit the ground. They are mezzed so they cannot avoid the ground impact and they will die with they hit the ground or they will be near dead.
However, when i see fliers on my stalker I cry.
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I don't know about flight being more popular, but I don't like what the devs did to teleport in PvP. SS, SJ, and flight all have somewhat limited use during combat situations, but the teleport power is completely unavailable. That's effed-up. I think poeple should still be able to use TP, but it would be a much more limited range...like maybe 10-20 yards instead of 100. That way there is at least a little mobility (like there is with the other movement powers), but the suppression is still in place.
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iirc Castle said he would have like to do this but was unable to, there is no 'tp range' stat that can be modified by suppression, as far as I know, the game's mechanics wont allow it.
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It could be done by granting a short range tp temp power that is only active while suppression is up.
Normal TP is grayed out during suppression. Short range tp is grayed out during non-suppression
They just choose not to and hide behind game mechanics.
If Castle got really interested in more than a few mins worth of work, he could probably make it so that it would even work under the same power button rather than two separate powers. This I'm not sure of though .
But making it two powers would be no different than how people switch between cj and sj.
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I don't know about flight being more popular, but I don't like what the devs did to teleport in PvP. SS, SJ, and flight all have somewhat limited use during combat situations, but the teleport power is completely unavailable. That's effed-up. I think poeple should still be able to use TP, but it would be a much more limited range...like maybe 10-20 yards instead of 100. That way there is at least a little mobility (like there is with the other movement powers), but the suppression is still in place.
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iirc Castle said he would have like to do this but was unable to, there is no 'tp range' stat that can be modified by suppression, as far as I know, the game's mechanics wont allow it.
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It could be done by granting a short range tp temp power that is only active while suppression is up.
Normal TP is grayed out during suppression. Short range tp is grayed out during non-suppression
They just choose not to and hide behind game mechanics.
If Castle got really interested in more than a few mins worth of work, he could probably make it so that it would even work under the same power button rather than two separate powers. This I'm not sure of though .
But making it two powers would be no different than how people switch between cj and sj.
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If Castle got this to work under the same power button, and it didn't change colors or anything then it would be great, we wouldn't even realize that the button links to two powers depending on the situation. I don't know if it's doable and it might end up being more trouble than it's worth, he probably has tons of work to do getting Going Rogue out in the first place.
I'd hate it if it were two separate powers, having them each in different slots would be very confusing in the middle of a fight while you're being gangraped. I could imagine I'd mix them up all the time and end up getting killed almost as much as if the change wasn't there at all. Personally, I never swap between cj and sj... and just from casual observation in zones I don't think anyone else does either, am I missing something here?
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I don't know about flight being more popular, but I don't like what the devs did to teleport in PvP. SS, SJ, and flight all have somewhat limited use during combat situations, but the teleport power is completely unavailable. That's effed-up. I think poeple should still be able to use TP, but it would be a much more limited range...like maybe 10-20 yards instead of 100. That way there is at least a little mobility (like there is with the other movement powers), but the suppression is still in place.
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iirc Castle said he would have like to do this but was unable to, there is no 'tp range' stat that can be modified by suppression, as far as I know, the game's mechanics wont allow it.
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It could be done by granting a short range tp temp power that is only active while suppression is up.
Normal TP is grayed out during suppression. Short range tp is grayed out during non-suppression
They just choose not to and hide behind game mechanics.
If Castle got really interested in more than a few mins worth of work, he could probably make it so that it would even work under the same power button rather than two separate powers. This I'm not sure of though .
But making it two powers would be no different than how people switch between cj and sj.
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If Castle got this to work under the same power button, and it didn't change colors or anything then it would be great, we wouldn't even realize that the button links to two powers depending on the situation. I don't know if it's doable and it might end up being more trouble than it's worth, he probably has tons of work to do getting Going Rogue out in the first place.
I'd hate it if it were two separate powers, having them each in different slots would be very confusing in the middle of a fight while you're being gangraped. I could imagine I'd mix them up all the time and end up getting killed almost as much as if the change wasn't there at all. Personally, I never swap between cj and sj... and just from casual observation in zones I don't think anyone else does either, am I missing something here?
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People don't switch much anymore, but everyone did under i12 unless they had Inertial Reduc on them.
Having it as two powers would be a very small issue (and greatly preferable to not having ANY option available).
Crap I haven't used TP in some time, but:
I bind teleport to R, when outside of combat (ie suppression) I use R to move around
I bind combat teleport to T, when in combat (ie suppression) I use T to move around
That's the same way I have cj and sj set up (I used to have both powers bound to the same key, but didn't like it).
IMO having an option available, even one that requires a bit of work, is much preferable to having nothing available.
Then again, when Castle was wreaking TP I brought up that maybe a "fix" that involves graying out powers isn't a "fix" at all.
*IF he could make it work on the same power it would be ideal because it would be seamless transition between suppression and non-suppression. I personally have little faith in his capabilities though and trust him to take the path of least resistance. Two powers would be a bit cumbersome at the point suppression kicks in and expires, but not to the point where you'd lose anymore time than it takes to shift a finger from one key to another.
Is it just me, or has Flight become really popular all of a sudden? More popular than Super Speed, Super Jump and Teleport?