Newb Q - What's with crafted selling for so much??
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2009-05-19 24:22 in The Market and Inventions
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Well I'm not talking about gathering and crafting though. I'm talking about buying a recipe, all the salvage, assembling and reselling for ENORMOUS profit. Like spending 100k and selling for 2M. It makes no sense to me, but if it works, why not do it I guess.
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Not picking on your observation, but I do want to point out that 1,900,000 influence profit does not really seem ENOURMOUS to me. Since you are from another game (welcome to CoX!) the relative value of currencey here might be a little different.
Many people here (myself included) have made more than 50,000,000 on a single transaction (actually, far,far more than that, but it works for the point I am trying to make).
Considering that an in-demand purple recipe can go for 120,000,000 you would have to do over 65 of those sales to afford 1 in-demand purple. It is entirely possible (and easy) to do those 65 sales, but if you look around you might finda better niche.
The best bet may be to make several of those 1.8million profit transactions as your base-line, and branch out to higher profit activities as you find them.
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Not picking on your observation, but I do want to point out that 1,900,000 influence profit does not really seem ENOURMOUS to me. Since you are from another game (welcome to CoX!) the relative value of currencey here might be a little different.
Many people here (myself included) have made more than 50,000,000 on a single transaction (actually, far,far more than that, but it works for the point I am trying to make).
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It's enormous when you look at it as a 2000% profit. You'd have to have purchased your 50m item for 2.5m to make the same relative profit. Maybe that's possible maybe not, but the margin is ENORMOUS when you look at normal profit margins in a competitive market.
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Considering that an in-demand purple recipe can go for 120,000,000 you would have to do over 65 of those sales to afford 1 in-demand purple. It is entirely possible (and easy) to do those 65 sales, but if you look around you might finda better niche.
The best bet may be to make several of those 1.8million profit transactions as your base-line, and branch out to higher profit activities as you find them.
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Yeah, it's likely I'll end up doing that since inventory limits really nerf my ability to scale up the volume of transactions. Still, this should be enough to get me into a full set of L30 IOs with little effort.
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Is it me or I can I just buy recipes cheap, craft them and repost the crafted items, and make TONS of cash?! I'm used to playing the market on Eve Online where you NEVER see opportunities this obvious. Usually if it looks too good to be true, you forgot to move a decimal. But I really think this looks to be the case here. Am I missing something or are consumers just really stupid in this game?
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Shhhh! Mod8, please erase this thread 
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Actually I didn't create that phrase but it might have been created to describe my attitude. I make my money with patience, ruthless efficiency, statistics and mathematical analysis. I spend my money spontaneously, recklessly and with no regard for its value.
*EDIT* Actually now that I think about it I think I did make that phrase 
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<3
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
I also play EvE online and the crafting there is intense (hello T2/T3 production!), and so is the market. Honestly the market here is crude as hell, no donchian channel info, no history for the last x weeks, no number of sales. It's still serviceable though, and it fits the casual role the game has to a T. It's actually impressive that people get anything done marketwise at all in CoX, what with how crude the tools are. Hats off to you all!
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Now here's a question. Is it worth the money to get the crafter badge so I can summon a crafting table? I noticed that regular old non-set IO's generally sell for a loss, but that may just be the really low-level ones that people craft for the badge and then just dump on the market. Does this turn around at higher levels or will all my crafting towards a badge be at a loss?
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The crafting table is just for convenience. You can memorize any common recipe with just a fraction of the work it takes to earn the crafting table. Memorization means you don't have to purchase the recipe and I believe crafting cost is cut by 50%.
As to whether it's worth it or not, I've seen several folks who have claimed they made tens or hundreds of millions by simply crafting memorized common IOs. It's always struck me as a bit iffy because it's common to have crafters or folks doing respecs dump common IOs on the market below cost.
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During the whole "Meow" maddness I crafted and sold over 2500+ lvl-45 common IO's and earned something like 700 million inf redside, so yes, sometimes at least you can make money crafting commons
-Justice server-50's
RedSide Corrupter-6::Brute-3::Veat-3:: MM-1:: Dom-1
Blueside Tank-1:: Blaster-1::Scrapper-1
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Is it me or I can I just buy recipes cheap, craft them and repost the crafted items, and make TONS of cash?! I'm used to playing the market on Eve Online where you NEVER see opportunities this obvious. Usually if it looks too good to be true, you forgot to move a decimal. But I really think this looks to be the case here. Am I missing something or are consumers just really stupid in this game?
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The fundamental explanation, in my opinion, is a lack of competition. In Eve, from what I hear, economic competition is front and center. In CoH, it's so far off to the side that most people never touch it and a lot of people never even see it.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
Then there are others that think market manipulation is bs. Doesn't feel real heroic to sell something for 100x the actual cost just because you can. As a long tooth I feel sorry for the newbies without disposable. There is nothing worse then leveling and not slotting cause you dread the time it will take away from actually running missions to slot up. I for one applaud your effort and ability to find satisfaction ripping of others to turn a quick buck.
I sure hope rogue addresses this and condemns heroes and rewards villains for such actions. Look what greed has done to our country.
Quietly filling your coffer not because I'm stupid but because I'd much rather spend the night helping my team and others play the game not exploting them...crafting in middle of mission while rest earn you experience sweet idea=kick.
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Then there are others that think market manipulation is bs. Doesn't feel real heroic to sell something for 100x the actual cost just because you can. As a long tooth I feel sorry for the newbies without disposable. There is nothing worse then leveling and not slotting cause you dread the time it will take away from actually running missions to slot up. I for one applaud your effort and ability to find satisfaction ripping of others to turn a quick buck.
I sure hope rogue addresses this and condemns heroes and rewards villains for such actions. Look what greed has done to our country.
Quietly filling your coffer not because I'm stupid but because I'd much rather spend the night helping my team and others play the game not exploting them...crafting in middle of mission while rest earn you experience sweet idea=kick.
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I am sorry that you don't understand how the world works.
*EDIT* I should give an explanation at least.
If prices did not rise in any of these situations on the CoH markets there would be a "shortage". A "shortage" is any price below "Equilibrium Price". A "shortage" is any price below where Supply and Demand meet. A "shortage" is any price where more items are willing and able to be bought than willing and able to be sold. A "shortage" is a price where you are willing to pay the going rate but are sometimes unable to obtain the item.
A shortage causes significant frustration to casual, common, regular, normal, non-super nerdy economically educated people because they CANNOT buy the item at standard prices. Items are sold out. In a shortage prices are supposed to rise.
In other words everyone would NOT be able to have Luck of the Gamblers if they were all priced at 100,000 Influence. They would sell out.
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Then there are others that think market manipulation is bs. Doesn't feel real heroic to sell something for 100x the actual cost just because you can.
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too bad the buyer sets the price.
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As a long tooth I feel sorry for the newbies without disposable.
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newbies have it better now than at any point in the history of the game.
as a 'long tooth' you should realize that.
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There is nothing worse then leveling and not slotting cause you dread the time it will take away from actually running missions to slot up.
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Yep, I really hated that in the old days before non-expiring IOs solved the problem for me.
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I for one applaud your effort and ability to find satisfaction ripping of others to turn a quick buck.
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except that the buyer sets the price.
i guess they're ripping themselves off?
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Quietly filling your coffer not because I'm stupid but because I'd much rather spend the night helping my team and others play the game not exploting them...
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I wouldn't make any bold claims to intelligence if you can't figure out how to make inf AND help your team.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Then there are others that think market manipulation is bs. Doesn't feel real heroic to sell something for 100x the actual cost just because you can. As a long tooth I feel sorry for the newbies without disposable. There is nothing worse then leveling and not slotting cause you dread the time it will take away from actually running missions to slot up. I for one applaud your effort and ability to find satisfaction ripping of others to turn a quick buck.
I sure hope rogue addresses this and condemns heroes and rewards villains for such actions. Look what greed has done to our country.
Quietly filling your coffer not because I'm stupid but because I'd much rather spend the night helping my team and others play the game not exploting them...crafting in middle of mission while rest earn you experience sweet idea=kick.
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I hope you're not responding to me (the OP) with this. There are so many things wrong with it, it's hard to know what to address first.
1 - I'm not manipulating the market. I'm taking advantage of inefficiencies in the market to make money. If people are feeling ripped off, they won't buy my "product" and I'll have to lower my price. Or competition will come in and force me to lower. The fact is though, that if the market is still this inefficient after 5+ years, it's not going to change anytime soon. In fact, the only thing I am gonna do by entering the market is push price MORE towards equilibrium. You should be thanking me for my "greed".
2 - I'm not a hero, I'm a villain...IN A VIDEO GAME. Note that last part.
3 - Running missions in this game is repetitive and boring. Playing the market adds variety and fun and will keep me around longer. Maybe you don't want me around longer, I dunno. But I certainly don't dread time away from running missions.
4 - I'm not ripping anyone off. If people weren't already paying these silly prices for stuff, I wouldn't have started the thread. It's clear that after 5 years, this is how players actually want the market to function or it would have changed by now.
5 - The devs want to keep more players playing so they make more money. If playing the market keeps me around, why would they want to change that in the next expansion? How many people leave the game because they don't want to pay 2M inf for something they could make for 500k but won't just make it themselves??
6 - I'm not even gonna touch the US politics there in the second paragraph.
7 - Who in the world mentioned crafting in the middle of a mission? I want the table so I don't have to run to Cap every time I wanna craft something. Travel time sinks piss me off more than anything else in MMO's. I'm sorry if you think that means I'm "exploting" my fellow players.
Sorry man, maybe you're reading the wrong part of the forum if you don't understand basic economics and hate capitalism.
the only flaw i see in your statements is that the market hasn't been around for 5 yrs. it was introduced in i9 or i10 if i remember correctly.
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the only flaw i see in your statements is that the market hasn't been around for 5 yrs. it was introduced in i9 or i10 if i remember correctly.
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Ah, I did not know that. How long ago was that, anyone know? I will gladly update any of my comments with that in mind if anyone wants to call me out on it.
See, told you I was a newb! 
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the only flaw i see in your statements is that the market hasn't been around for 5 yrs. it was introduced in i9 or i10 if i remember correctly.
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i9 on May 1, 2007. Ah, what a wonderful day that was for me.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Then there are others that think market manipulation is bs. Doesn't feel real heroic to sell something for 100x the actual cost just because you can.
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too bad the buyer sets the price.
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What? Are you certain? I mean I know I listed it for 12,345 and I got 350,000 (less fees) but certainly I forced the buyers to pay that amount according to the perverted view of the market haters.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Then there are others that think market manipulation is bs. Doesn't feel real heroic to sell something for 100x the actual cost just because you can.
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too bad the buyer sets the price.
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What? Are you certain? I mean I know I listed it for 12,345 and I got 350,000 (less fees) but certainly I forced the buyers to pay that amount according to the perverted view of the market haters.
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Nethergoat was half right.
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Then there are others that think market manipulation is bs. Doesn't feel real heroic to sell something for 100x the actual cost just because you can.
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too bad the buyer sets the price.
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What? Are you certain? I mean I know I listed it for 12,345 and I got 350,000 (less fees) but certainly I forced the buyers to pay that amount according to the perverted view of the market haters.
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Nethergoat was half right.
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I think I could have fun with a question like "if a tree falls and no one hears it does it make a sound" by asking:
If an item is listed and no one buys it, was there ever a seller? 
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Man this thread has gotten me juiced about Wentworths! I'm going to make a goal to understand this better and see how I can make some inf. Is it safe to assume that I should start by working the IO common market? Or is it better to work on the SO market instead? (For a beginner)
PS. My view is you're HELPING people have something they WANT and are willing to pay for. I'm not withholding something from them (that'd be the developer who decides the drop rates, right?).
If you're working the market, it's never safe to assume. Do your homework, study the prices and such before diving in to make sure you don't hit your head on the bottom. 
If I were you, I'd start with the guide in Four's sig. I forget his whole name, but he's been in this thread. It says "I've been rich and I've been poor. I prefer rich." with a link in the last "rich". I tried it and that technique still works well.
Build up some moolah and then try the more expensive stuff. FYI tho, I posted this thread after looking at Set IO's, not common. I haven't researched the common market yet so that's one less person for you to compete against if you do that.
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If an item is listed and no one buys it, was there ever a seller?
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Sure! It's UNDER WW/BM's and it's where you hide from the tornado of people who want 'free stuffs NAO!' (it's also where the ebil marketeers meet to plot the next 'screw the heroic' campaign )
-Dragons
"I burn my candle at both ends, it will not last the night. But Ahhh my friends and Ohh my foes it makes a lovely light!"
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As to whether it's worth it or not, I've seen several folks who have claimed they made tens or hundreds of millions by simply crafting memorized common IOs. It's always struck me as a bit iffy because it's common to have crafters or folks doing respecs dump common IOs on the market below cost.
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During the whole "Meow" maddness I crafted and sold over 2500+ lvl-45 common IO's and earned something like 700 million inf redside, so yes, sometimes at least you can make money crafting commons
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I stand corrected! I think my impressions were formed while I was going for the Field Crafter badge. Since I was crafting large numbers of IOs, I was motivated to post them at "sell now" prices so naturally I'd often be up against temporary gluts. Clearly you can make nice margins selling crafted memorized IOs if you're a bit patient.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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the only flaw i see in your statements is that the market hasn't been around for 5 yrs. it was introduced in i9 or i10 if i remember correctly.
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Ah, I did not know that. How long ago was that, anyone know? I will gladly update any of my comments with that in mind if anyone wants to call me out on it.
See, told you I was a newb!
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You may be new but you have a more solid grasp on basic market mechanics than 90% of the players in this game.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
I wouldn't recommend the SO market, the profits tend to come from selling people things they are willing to pay extra for for convenience. They can buy SOs at stores, so they don't need to go to the markets for those. I've sometimes bought SOs when I'm going to do a quick respec just to cash them out (you get full purchase price back on a respec), but only when I can get them for less then stores pay.
My suggestion for fairly safe profits is look at what common IOs and levels are selling well; things like defense, accuracy, damage, etc are good sellers because people need a lot of them. Then look into the guide to getting the crafting badges, and make/sell enough to get the badges on those, which lowers your production cost tremendously. In the process you should be finding out what the lowest "overnight" price you can buy the salvage for is. Then just start cranking them out.
Then, as you start putting together set IO builds, sometimes you'll notice something with wide price variations. That can be a good niche to start working on for the markets.
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Is it safe to assume that I should start by working the IO common market? Or is it better to work on the SO market instead? (For a beginner)
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There's an SO market? I guess there is, but since the upside would be limited by SO vendors, I'd ignore it.
As others have pointed out, the key to making money in this game is patience. Most players want to get their slotting over with right after they level so they gladly buy pre-crafted IOs and get on with the game. To get into marketeering, I suggest finding some recipes that are in common use (hint, if the sales history averages less than one transaction per day, that's not "common use") and put in some lowball bids. Try maybe 70% of the going rate. Then check back once a day. Assuming you have a few bids out you'll see them slowly being fulfilled.
Now you have a recipe you can flip for a profit, but instead craft it. Put it up for sale at maybe 85% of the current average sales price. Again, be patient. Don't be upset if it takes a day or two to sell.
Remember that prices always rise during high demand (weekends, special events like double XP, new issue releases) then fall in the middle of the week. So expect most of your best buys to be midweek and your best sales to happen on weekends.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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Actually I didn't create that phrase but it might have been created to describe my attitude. I make my money with patience, ruthless efficiency, statistics and mathematical analysis. I spend my money spontaneously, recklessly and with no regard for its value.
*EDIT* Actually now that I think about it I think I did make that phrase
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lol - thanks for the chuckle of the day...
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.