[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why some people claim that certain things can't ever be seen as good. A common complaint I see is the concept of a Necromancer mastermind doing good deeds but who is to say that all necromancers are evil or cannot be redeemed? What if the person is a scientist who has managed to learn the secret of bringing the dead back to life? This same scientist has decided to dedicate his research to reviving the dead in order to combat crime.
[/ QUOTE ]
Typically the -act- of raising the dead is considered evil. And if he's bringing people back to life: Why is he forcing them to help him, rather than letting them return to their grieving families? If he's -NOT- bringing them back to life and is in fact using zombies: He shows no respect for the dead, or their families. Again, generally considered an evil or at least extremely RUDE Act.
Like reaching into Grandma's casket at a funerl, stuffing your hand in a hole you cut into her back, and using her as a ventriloquist's puppet.
[ QUOTE ]
His view of the death is that the person who used to inhabit the body are long gone and now the corpse can be used in order to protect those who are still living. Changing the story around, you can even use the same concept with a magical character. In reality it's the same concept as a demon summoner forcing demons to fight against their own kind.
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference is the Demons don't have loved ones still mourning the loss of Grandma.
[ QUOTE ]
At the same time I hear a lot about how Kheldians would never do evil but this simply isn't true either. A Warshade can feel the allure of his past crimes calling back to him and slowly end up reverting back to his Nictus ways. Afterall, he was once a nictus before so becoming one again isn't an impossibility. At the same time, in the story, they mention that there's over zealous peace bringers that REFUSE to accept the Warshades. The only reason they do so is because their leader manages to keep them under control. Because he has faith in their cause but what's to say a Peacebringer doesn't rebel? That he can't see it not being a ploy and that Warshades are one of the greatest threats?
[/ QUOTE ]
110% agreed. Nictus are evil Kheldians who've modified their essence. Nothing wrong with an Evil Nictus. As for Kheldians: If a human can be evil, why not a squid?
[ QUOTE ]
What if his prejudice pushes him into feeling betrayed, that everyone is being used, and seeing the Paragon heroes that trust the Warshades as the ones who are wrong? A peacebringer who has become much like the witch hunters of old and even going as far as to side with the Rogue Island Villains in order to fight against the Nictus threat. Believing that what it's doing is best for humanity as a whole?
[/ QUOTE ]
All perfectly logical and acceptable reasons.
[ QUOTE ]
No matter what any of the ATS can be used for good or evil. So many of you are thinking in terms of black and white. These aren't the only possible scenarios but are simply examples. As for the Kheldian bit (because I see this one the most), remember that Nictus were once Peacebringers. Peacebringers can go corrupt and aren't infallible beings.
Thugs mastermind? Remember, with the right amount of cash and maybe some manipulation you can pay most people to do anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. But a Zombie Mastermind is still dragging people out of their graves to fight for him. An evil act, even if his -intent- is good. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. And each evil act is another step towards damnation.
So while I agree with all of your other points (Money for Thugs? Why can't they just be a gang of hero-wannabes fighting crime with the help of a low-grade hero as their leader?) I have to, respectfully, disagree with the Zombie Mastermind being accepted as a good person. Demons are pure evil, generally speaking, so manipulation into redeeming acts could be perceived as good. Making Grandma do 'The Robot', however, cannot be viewed as a 'good' thing, in many people's opinions.
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
The difference is the Demons don't have loved ones still mourning the loss of Grandma.
[/ QUOTE ] Like how a certain hero tires to stomp on people for defeating Lillith?
[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. But a Zombie Mastermind is still dragging people out of their graves to fight for him. An evil act, even if his -intent- is good. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. And each evil act is another step towards damnation.
[/ QUOTE ]I think this is a rather moot point when we have people sucking the soul of others with their Dark powers to stop purse snatching.
[ QUOTE ]
Typically the -act- of raising the dead is considered evil.
[/ QUOTE ]
What if it's not forced? What if the Necromancer asks the nice spirit if he wants to come help? Sort of like a voodoo witch: "Hear me, oh spirits of darkness! ... That's the guy. *point*"
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
That's actually something that's -always- upset me. Take a look at these powers...
Howling Twilight
Activating this power channels the power of the Netherworld to weaken your foes, in an attempt to revive all nearby fallen allies. You must stand near your defeated allies to revive them, then select a foe. The selected foe and all nearby foes will be Slowed, Disoriented, and drained of some life. Revived allies will have full Hit Points and Endurance and will suffer no ill effects and are left protected from XP Debt for 20 seconds
Twilight Grasp
You channel Negative Energy from the Netherworld through yourself to a targeted foe. Twilight Grasp drains the power from that target and slowly transfers it to you and all nearby allies. The targeted foe's chance to hit and damage are reduced, while you and your nearby allies are healed.
Despite the description, the healing is instantaneous, not gradual. Furthermore, the description doesn't mention that this power also debuffs its target's health Regeneration rate.
The Mastermind version of Twilight Grasp has half the healing radius of the others.
Siphon Life
You tap the power of the Netherworld and create a life transferring conduit between a foe and yourself. This will transfer Hit Points from your enemy to yourself. Foes siphoned in this manner have their chance to hit reduced.
Dark Regeneration
You can tap the dark essence of the Netherworld to drain a small amount of life from all enemies nearby, thus healing yourself. The more foes affected, the more you will be healed.
None of them say ANYTHING about sucking soul... Untill you get to these three.
Soul Transfer
Should you fall in battle, you can perform a Soul Transfer, sucking the life force of all foes around you to bring yourself back from the brink of death. The more foes nearby, the more life is restored to you. Drained foes are left Disoriented. The dark effects of this Soul Transfer will actually leave you invulnerable for a brief time, and protected from XP Debt for 20 seconds. There must be at least one foe nearby to fuel the transfer and revive yourself.
Soul Drain
Using this power, you can drain the essence of all nearby foes' souls, thus increasing your own strength. Each affected foe will lose some Hit Points and add to your Damage and chance to hit.
Dark Consumption
The dark power of the Netherworld allows you to tap the essence of your foe's soul and transfer it to yourself. This will drain the Hit Points of your enemy and add to your Endurance.
And those right there are the reasons I can't bring myself to take a Dark/Dark scrapper hero -seriously-.
Killing is a horrible and deplorable act for a hero to commit. You're ending someone's life. It creates pain in the form of remorse (Typically) for the hero, pain for the victim's family, and a total lack of feeling in the Victim.
But tampering with and damaging someone's eternal aspect is a -far- more heinous act. As it damages them eternally.
-Rachel-
If the zombies are mindless he can be using raising the dead as a necessary evil in order to fight crime and corruption. While it's true that he could be using a loved father's corpse to fight this crime and while that could stress out/upset certain people it could also save people's lives. This, to me, sounds like the concept of the expansion. The line isn't as clear as it used to be, another dimension is trying to conquer our own, and should we deny the help of someone who's willing to risk his own life to protect our world just because he uses a morally questionable practice?
Remember, in our own reality there's people who don't believe that animals have souls, that they don't have true emotions, and roll their eyes at those who go out of their way to protect them but at the same time will help their fellow man. A necromancer can view the same towards a corpse. That it's an empty shell, that it can be used for justice, and that it's illogical for people to persecute him for simply using his own talents to save the lives of others.
Again, you have to look at the individual. While many people may not be able to accept his practice, if he uses corpses to fight evil and take some of the most dangerous people off the streets their will be those who will overlook his talents. Or maybe the person doesn't require any fame at all? Maybe he doesn't mind that others refuse to see what he's doing as good but does it anyway because he feels he's doing the right thing? You may be unable to accept it but it doesn't change the side he's fighting for.
Of course.. such a man can end up viewing everyone as shells, becoming arrogant and seeing himself as a god, etc. Corruption which would lead him back to being a villain.
*Edit* I see where you're coming from but at the same time it can be a necessary sacrifice to protect the lives/existance of others. Of course, the Dark line of powers are the ones that could more pull towards someone to the path of complete darkness. I also suspect that you'll see more Dark oriented characters going bad when Rogue starts which would actually make sense from a roleplaying standpoint.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Typically the -act- of raising the dead is considered evil.
[/ QUOTE ]
What if it's not forced? What if the Necromancer asks the nice spirit if he wants to come help? Sort of like a voodoo witch: "Hear me, oh spirits of darkness! ... That's the guy. *point*"
[/ QUOTE ]
Generally acceptable, I think? Pointing spirits of vengeance towards a criminal, that they might handle it. Yes. That could be considered a good act.
But using Zombies as they are typically understood to exist in this game (the dead given some semblance of life for the sole purpose of serving their master) is evil. Using a Corpse-puppet is at the very -least- extremely disrespectful to a family.
-Rachel-
Even if the zombie gave consent?
[ QUOTE ]
If the zombies are mindless he can be using raising the dead as a necessary evil in order to fight crime and corruption. While it's true that he could be using a loved father's corpse to fight this crime and while that could stress out/upset certain people it could also save people's lives. This, to me, sounds like the concept of the expansion. The line isn't as clear as it used to be, another dimension is trying to conquer our own, and should we deny the help of someone who's willing to risk his own life to protect our world just because he uses a morally questionable practice?
Remember, in our own reality there's people who don't believe that animals have souls, that they don't have true emotions, and roll their eyes at those who go out of their way to protect them but at the same time will help their fellow man. A necromancer can view the same towards a corpse. That it's an empty shell, that it can be used for justice, and that it's illogical for people to persecute him for simply using his own talents to save the lives of others.
Again, you have to look at the individual. While many people may not be able to accept his practice, if he uses corpses to fight evil and take some of the most dangerous people off the streets their will be those who will overlook his talents. Or maybe the person doesn't require any fame at all? Maybe he doesn't mind that others refuse to see what he's doing as good but does it anyway because he feels he's doing the right thing? You may be unable to accept it but it doesn't change the side he's fighting for.
Of course.. such a man can end up viewing everyone as shells, becoming arrogant and seeing himself as a god, etc. Corruption which would lead him back to being a villain.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well how does the general populace view his act, is the question. Does the general public of Paragon consider zombies to be evil (Vahzilok, Banished Pantheon, Halloween Zombies) or do they view them as tools to be used?
If it's the former, then a Hero Zombie Mastermind would likely have his license suspended or revoked based on public outcry. If he continues heroing he could be arrested.
If the latter is true, however, then zombies would likely do most of our menial labor. From digging ditches to fetching water and building materials.
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
Even if the zombie gave consent?
[/ QUOTE ]
A Zombie cannot give consent if it's a zombie based on the game's definition thereof. Since it's a mindless puppet being used by the Mastermind.
If the Zombie -were- to give consent it would be solely due to the Necromancer -forcing- it to say so.
-Rachel-
Now you want to give our job to the Zombicans!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Typically the -act- of raising the dead is considered evil.
[/ QUOTE ]
What if it's not forced? What if the Necromancer asks the nice spirit if he wants to come help? Sort of like a voodoo witch: "Hear me, oh spirits of darkness! ... That's the guy. *point*"
[/ QUOTE ]
Generally acceptable, I think? Pointing spirits of vengeance towards a criminal, that they might handle it. Yes. That could be considered a good act.
But using Zombies as they are typically understood to exist in this game (the dead given some semblance of life for the sole purpose of serving their master) is evil. Using a Corpse-puppet is at the very -least- extremely disrespectful to a family.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but think of it this way. You revive someone's husband. That same family gets attacked by a crazed criminal. You're the only one there (ironic considering you revived their father). You manage, with your zombie minion, to save the familie's life. Are you worse than the criminal? I don't think so. You saved their life. Maybe the method you did it can't be considered a "pure" act. You could probably cause some emotional trauma in the family as well.
But most importantly you gave them a second chance at a life. If you think in terms of souls/spirits do you really think the soul of the husband is going to think, "That [censored] used my corpse to save my family! He should have let them died. How could he use my body?" No, he did something that the spirit would have wanted. Will the family be upset? Yes, but at the same time he saved them and their daughter. You can claim the man in question isn't entirely in the right but you can't classify him as a villain either.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why some people claim that certain things can't ever be seen as good. A common complaint I see is the concept of a Necromancer mastermind doing good deeds but who is to say that all necromancers are evil or cannot be redeemed? What if the person is a scientist who has managed to learn the secret of bringing the dead back to life? This same scientist has decided to dedicate his research to reviving the dead in order to combat crime.
[/ QUOTE ]
Typically the -act- of raising the dead is considered evil. And if he's bringing people back to life: Why is he forcing them to help him, rather than letting them return to their grieving families? If he's -NOT- bringing them back to life and is in fact using zombies: He shows no respect for the dead, or their families. Again, generally considered an evil or at least extremely RUDE Act.
Like reaching into Grandma's casket at a funerl, stuffing your hand in a hole you cut into her back, and using her as a ventriloquist's puppet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Showing a lack of respect for the dead isn't inherently evil. It's perhaps a violation of some of our social mores, but dead people are just sacks of decaying meat. Someone with a certain moral flexibility might well see them as a resource that can be used for a greater good.
While his radical ethical ideas might well make him an outcast, there is no reason such a person could not be an anti-hero, and it's the anti-hero that Going Rogue seems perfect for capturing the spirit of.
My own necro/storm isn't a bad guy. He's actually very much a gentleman and quite charming. He's even compassionate and cares deeply about the plight of the ordinary people with more than a little sense of Noblesse Oblige. He is, however, largely amoral (which is not the same as immoral, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorality) and therefore does not feel constrained by normative ethics.
When Going Rogue comes out, he may well be a candidate for changing sides (quite possibly more than once).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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Dead people aren't decaying meat if you prep them for BBQ.
[ QUOTE ]
Well how does the general populace view his act, is the question. Does the general public of Paragon consider zombies to be evil (Vahzilok, Banished Pantheon, Halloween Zombies) or do they view them as tools to be used?
If it's the former, then a Hero Zombie Mastermind would likely have his license suspended or revoked based on public outcry. If he continues heroing he could be arrested.
If the latter is true, however, then zombies would likely do most of our menial labor. From digging ditches to fetching water and building materials.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
I like this post here but allow me to explain. I think you're right that the Hero in question would have his license revoked in normal situations. Possibly even arrested but that's the reason why you can't be a heroic mastermind but with the coming of the expansion we've learned that Praetoria is trying to expand into our own world. Right now people don't have time for discrimination. If a man who can revive the dead is willing to fight for our future, our universe, and our lives they're not going to revoke his license just because some people don't like how he's doing it.
Realize that in the expansion it's not under normal situations. If someone is using something that's morally questionable for good then he's still using it for good. The other side has a super powered army ready to march down into our world.
My zombie MM is a resurrected corpse himself and only wants vengeance on the person who... did certain unspeakable acts to his body after death. His whole background revolves around him getting together some of his buddies to return the favor.
Now granted, he's not really hero material. But couldn't a Necromancy Mastermind who WAS a zombie leading other like-minded zombies feasibly be a hero?
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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[ QUOTE ]
Dead people aren't decaying meat if you prep them for BBQ.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is inappropriate.
This isn't the cooking forum.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why some people claim that certain things can't ever be seen as good. A common complaint I see is the concept of a Necromancer mastermind doing good deeds but who is to say that all necromancers are evil or cannot be redeemed? What if the person is a scientist who has managed to learn the secret of bringing the dead back to life? This same scientist has decided to dedicate his research to reviving the dead in order to combat crime.
[/ QUOTE ]
Typically the -act- of raising the dead is considered evil. And if he's bringing people back to life: Why is he forcing them to help him, rather than letting them return to their grieving families? If he's -NOT- bringing them back to life and is in fact using zombies: He shows no respect for the dead, or their families. Again, generally considered an evil or at least extremely RUDE Act.
Like reaching into Grandma's casket at a funerl, stuffing your hand in a hole you cut into her back, and using her as a ventriloquist's puppet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Showing a lack of respect for the dead isn't inherently evil. It's perhaps a violation of some of our social mores, but dead people are just sacks of decaying meat. Someone with a certain moral flexibility might well see them as a resource that can be used for a greater good.
While his radical ethical ideas might well make him an outcast, there is no reason such a person could not be an anti-hero, and it's the anti-hero that Going Rogue seems perfect for capturing the spirit of.
My own necro/storm isn't a bad guy. He's actually very much a gentleman and quite charming. He's even compassionate and cares deeply about the plight of the ordinary people with more than a little sense of Noblesse Oblige. He is, however, largely amoral (which is not the same as immoral, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorality) and therefore does not feel constrained by normative ethics.
When Going Rogue comes out, he may well be a candidate for changing sides (quite possibly more than once).
[/ QUOTE ]
That's all fine and dandy, well and good. But in this alternate version of reality social mores are what shapes acceptable behavior.
If the public doesn't like Zombies (And I think it's clear they're not a HUGE fan of mindless undead running around) then having mindless undead puppets puts you in the same boat as Vahzilok and other villains in the minds and hearts of the people.
You can throw a thousand and one examples of 'it could be considered good if' and it would still have to be almost universally -accepted- as good before it would make sense from an in-character standpoint.
A Vocal Minority is enough to take a television show off the air, or force an officer to turn his badge in. Since all heroes are licensed by the City Government they're under similar limitations.
Do enough Evil Acts and you're not allowed in Paragon anymore (You become a villain under the new system) If you agree that the act of raising and using corpses is an evil act then you agree that to do so repeatedly will eventually earn you the enmity of Paragon City, and a boot to the Rogue Isles (As per the alignment system set up)
-Rachel-
Plenty of heroes get their powers from 'evil' sources. Don't Spawn and Ghost Rider have demons or something like that to thank for their powers?
The Punisher and Jack Bauer do many questionable things for the sake of good. To them the ends justify the means.
[ QUOTE ]
Realize that in the expansion it's not under normal situations. If someone is using something that's morally questionable for good then he's still using it for good. The other side has a super powered army ready to march down into our world.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the precedent (or slippery slope that Longbow feared all along) has been set through Vanguard accepting heroes and villains both to fight the Rikti. Now with a greater foe to face, expanding their role into Paragon City itself is the next logical step (and indeed another slide down the slippery slope)
Once "normal" circumstances are back, will they then be able to tell those former villains to go home and criminalize them? Or will that genie have been let out of the bottle already?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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[ QUOTE ]
[Z]ombies would likely do most of our menial labor. From digging ditches to fetching water and building materials.
[/ QUOTE ]
Since you and I have already found we share a taste in music, how about movies? Given the subject, I recommend Fido. 
(Also, trailer for Fido)
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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[ QUOTE ]
Plenty of heroes get their powers from 'evil' sources. Don't Spawn and Ghost Rider have demons or something like that to thank for their powers?
The Punisher and Jack Bauer do many questionable things for the sake of good. To them the ends justify the means.
[/ QUOTE ]
Both Spawn and Ghost Rider received their powers from Evil Sources. However the power they wield isn't inherently evil.
A Guy buys a gun from a drug dealer and uses it to make a citizens arrest on a drug dealer. The weapon is neutral, even if the source is evil or wrong.
A Guy buys a gun that fires puppies at 300 feet per second and fires on criminals. The gun in this example is evil, even if the guy he's shooting is evil, too.
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The difference is the Demons don't have loved ones still mourning the loss of Grandma.
[/ QUOTE ] Like how a certain hero tires to stomp on people for defeating Lillith?
[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. But a Zombie Mastermind is still dragging people out of their graves to fight for him. An evil act, even if his -intent- is good. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. And each evil act is another step towards damnation.
[/ QUOTE ]I think this is a rather moot point when we have people sucking the soul of others with their Dark powers to stop purse snatching.
[/ QUOTE ]
I do that every day.
...hey... I give them back when I'm done.
A Necro Mastermind turned hero could excuse himself by saying that he is raising people who have done wrong and are bound to servitude for their atrocities.
He might even be able to say that his zombies are personal ancestors or spirits (think bocor, or witch doctor)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[Z]ombies would likely do most of our menial labor. From digging ditches to fetching water and building materials.
[/ QUOTE ]
Since you and I have already found we share a taste in music, how about movies? Given the subject, I recommend Fido.
(Also, trailer for Fido)
[/ QUOTE ]
... I have -got- to see this movie. O.O
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
If the public doesn't like Zombies (And I think it's clear they're not a HUGE fan of mindless undead running around) then having mindless undead puppets puts you in the same boat as Vahzilok and other villains in the minds and hearts of the people.
You can throw a thousand and one examples of 'it could be considered good if' and it would still have to be almost universally -accepted- as good before it would make sense from an in-character standpoint.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no genre basis for "public opinion dictates hero status". As mentioned, Spawn, Ghost Rider, Damian Hellstrom all get their powers from evil sources. Spider-Man was considered a villain by the public more than once thanks to the machinations of Jonah Jameson and a few unfortunate wrong-place wrong-time situations. Comic books are RIFE with heroes who are considered villains by the public but are STILL heroes. In some of the extreme cases, they're anti-heroes, but they're still the good guy of their book.
There is a strong genre precedent for the anti-hero, whether he has public opinion behind him or not.
And this whole idea that legality should be governed by the whims of the masses is a rather scary one. I would hate to live in a world where the public's ever whim could dictate who can walk the streets and who gets locked up in jail. Such a system would be pure anarchy.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
I don't understand why some people claim that certain things can't ever be seen as good. A common complaint I see is the concept of a Necromancer mastermind doing good deeds but who is to say that all necromancers are evil or cannot be redeemed? What if the person is a scientist who has managed to learn the secret of bringing the dead back to life? This same scientist has decided to dedicate his research to reviving the dead in order to combat crime.
His view of the death is that the person who used to inhabit the body are long gone and now the corpse can be used in order to protect those who are still living. Changing the story around, you can even use the same concept with a magical character. In reality it's the same concept as a demon summoner forcing demons to fight against their own kind.
At the same time I hear a lot about how Kheldians would never do evil but this simply isn't true either. A Warshade can feel the allure of his past crimes calling back to him and slowly end up reverting back to his Nictus ways. Afterall, he was once a nictus before so becoming one again isn't an impossibility. At the same time, in the story, they mention that there's over zealous peace bringers that REFUSE to accept the Warshades. The only reason they do so is because their leader manages to keep them under control. Because he has faith in their cause but what's to say a Peacebringer doesn't rebel? That he can't see it not being a ploy and that Warshades are one of the greatest threats?
What if his prejudice pushes him into feeling betrayed, that everyone is being used, and seeing the Paragon heroes that trust the Warshades as the ones who are wrong? A peacebringer who has become much like the witch hunters of old and even going as far as to side with the Rogue Island Villains in order to fight against the Nictus threat. Believing that what it's doing is best for humanity as a whole?
No matter what any of the ATS can be used for good or evil. So many of you are thinking in terms of black and white. These aren't the only possible scenarios but are simply examples. As for the Kheldian bit (because I see this one the most), remember that Nictus were once Peacebringers. Peacebringers can go corrupt and aren't infallible beings.
Thugs mastermind? Remember, with the right amount of cash and maybe some manipulation you can pay most people to do anything.