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At what point does the +Recharge actually detract from your ability to get +Damage?
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Moonlighter: That's a difficult question to answer, but I'd also say that there are pros and cons to both approaches.
The build / chain that focuses heavily on +dmg will be more end efficient than a +rech chain (using similar end reduc slotting). It would also have higher burst damage / crit potential. It would also benefit greatly from recharge buffs, allowing them to drop lower DPA attacks in favor of better ones. The con being that these builds count against the damage cap, so if you're being backed by, say, Fulcrum Shift, you're going to have more wasted potential.
A build focusing on +recharge is pretty much the polar opposite. It would have a higher end burn (since it'd be leveraging high DPA attacks) and not benefit as much from +recharge. (It would some, but not as much.) On the other hand, it would scale magnificently with outside sources of +dmg like Fulcrum Shift.
Which is better? I'd probably say +Recharge (since it also effects other click powers, Accolades, etc), but you have to be able to manage the burn.
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To put it another way, if I have 9% global damage buff and 100% from BU, it's still just Base*(1+1+.09) correct?
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Bill: You got it.
[edit: Fixed Moonlighter's quote. I blame the telecon distracting me.]
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Bill: You got it.
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Good. Then I haven't screwed anything up yet.
Just and FYI, folks, this is not an overnight project for me. I have job and a family so I'll be plugging away as time permits.
Sarrate, I don't know that the damage auras can be dismissed so easily, because the primary in use buffing the aura will be different in some cases. On top of that, for instance, soul drain buffing blazing aura on a scrapper will be better than soul drain buffing blazing aura on a brute.
Wow... I'm gonna be crunching a LOT of numbers.
Again, good.
On spines, I'll look into it.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Sarrate, I don't know that the damage auras can be dismissed so easily, because the primary in use buffing the aura will be different in some cases. On top of that, for instance, soul drain buffing blazing aura on a scrapper will be better than soul drain buffing blazing aura on a brute.
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Did you mean Moonlighter there? I didn't even mention auras (which +dmg would benefit from and not the +rech one).
doh! Yes.
EDIT: And now we see WHY I need something for my brain to latch on to... gettin flighty as hell lately. Thinking senility is setting in.
Be well, people of CoH.
Another question:
For powers like Gloom and Incinerate that are nothing but DoT attacks, the fully stack right? There's not anything in the code that shuts a DoT off to avoid DoT stacking is there?
Be well, people of CoH.
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Another question:
For powers like Gloom and Incinerate that are nothing but DoT attacks, the fully stack right? There's not anything in the code that shuts a DoT off to avoid DoT stacking is there?
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Correct.
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Another question:
For powers like Gloom and Incinerate that are nothing but DoT attacks, the fully stack right? There's not anything in the code that shuts a DoT off to avoid DoT stacking is there?
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Yes, DoTs stack. The best examples of this are the controller primaries.
Scrapper
Martial Arts
Storm Kick > Crane Kick > Storm Kick > Crippling Axe Kick
Storm Kick needs 225% recharge.
Crane Kick needs 153% recharge.
Crippling Axe Kick needs 103% recharge.
With Focused Chi up 1/3rd of the time and some Procs in SK I managed to get it up to a DPS of 193. This in a single target focused primary. Martial Arts sucks.
Scrapper
Martial Arts
Ripper > Throw Spines > Impale
Throw Spines needs 140% recharge.
Ripper needs 146% recharge.
Impale Kick needs 90% recharge.
Gets 139 DPS without counting Procs. Let's all point and laugh at Spines.
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Scrappers
Fire melee
Repeatable and sustainable
Incinerate, Cremate, GFS.
Forgot the recharge req, sorry.
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Incinerate requires 137% +rech.
Cremate requires 84% +rech.
GFS requires 237% +rech.
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Umbral, for the Incin, Crem, GFS chain, after factoring in Arcanatime, I'm getting 279% total recharge needed for GFS for that chain to work. Did you use Arcanatime?
EDIT: if it is 279%, I don't think I can use that chain. That's a LOT of recharge and from the builds I've seen, you rather have to gimp yourself to get there.
EDIT2: Gorram it. *I'M* not using the right column.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Scrapper
Martial Arts
Ripper > Throw Spines > Impale
Throw Spines needs 140% recharge.
Ripper needs 146% recharge.
Impale Kick needs 90% recharge.
Gets 139 DPS without counting Procs. Let's all point and laugh at Spines.
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Is that counting Quills? If not, you can tack on an extra 9.1455 dps. Still, that's pretty anemic. I guess Spines will just have to console itself with some mass murd, err, arresting...
It's counting Quills. Not counting any eventual procs, but that wouldn't help that much, not compared to MA for which it makes a huge difference.
Should also point out that all my chains are theoretical.
What's the redraw time of Spines? Bit curious if mixing in attacks outside the primary might help.
The redraw is still baked into the powers, so using outside powers shouldn't effect its dps at all.
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The redraw is still baked into the powers, so using outside powers shouldn't effect its dps at all.
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It is? Just Spines, right? These days, my habit is to always have my "weapon" out before engaging in combat. Guess I'll still do that to stay in practice, but it's nice to know that it doesn't matter with Spines.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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The redraw is still baked into the powers, so using outside powers shouldn't effect its dps at all.
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It is? Just Spines, right? These days, my habit is to always have my "weapon" out before engaging in combat. Guess I'll still do that to stay in practice, but it's nice to know that it doesn't matter with Spines.
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Yeah, all the weapons sets but Spines (Thorns too, I believe) were modified to pull out the redraw. I don't remember the reason why they were left as is - if a reason was given.
I hear ya about good practice, though. I haven't played a weapon set in a while other than my lowbie /Thorn Dominator every once in a while.
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The redraw is still baked into the powers, so using outside powers shouldn't effect its dps at all.
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If that's the case then Throw/Dark Blast/Ripper/Dark Blast might be an option to squeeze a bit more out.
Calculations using base damage:
Impale/Ripper/Throw Spines 40.38 DPS
(102.6+106.4+68.2)/(2.64+2.376+1.848)
Ripper/DB/Throw/DB 45.42 DPS
(106.4+62.6+68.2+62.6)/(2.376+1.188+1.848+1.188)
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It's counting Quills. Not counting any eventual procs, but that wouldn't help that much, not compared to MA for which it makes a huge difference.
Should also point out that all my chains are theoretical.
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But the difference lies in the fact that Martial Arts is a single target set, with one AOE.
Spines is the AOE set.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
(QR)
Anything on a ST BS attack chain? I'm rolling a BS/Regen (First scrapper ever!) and I would really appreciate this info.
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. -F. Nietzsche
Virtueverse
Guide to Dark/Dark Defenders
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(QR)
Anything on a ST BS attack chain? I'm rolling a BS/Regen (First scrapper ever!) and I would really appreciate this info.
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Last time I did the numbers for someone, Hack>Slash>Disembowel>Headsplitter and Hack>Parry>Disembowel>Headsplitter were the optimal attack ST chains.
Headsplitter requires 172% +recharge.
Disembowel requires 77% +recharge.
Hack requires 32% +recharge.
Slash and Parry require nothing.
Maximizing Hack is better. With 220% +recharge in Hack:
Hack > Headsplitter > Hack > Disembowel > (0.5sec)
produces 490.48 damage (unenhanced) in 8.176sec (Arcanatime), for 58.99dps unenhanced.
Hack>Slash>Disembowel>Headsplitter produces 450.44 damage (unenhanced) in 7.656sec (Arcanatime), for 58.83dps unenhanced.
That's very close; but if you slot the Hecatomb proc in Hack, the Hack>HS>Hack>DE>(.5sec) chain pulls ahead of the Hack>Slash>DE>HS chain very significantly.
Hack simply has substantially better DPA than anything else in the Broadsword set. In this case it is best to use a chain that spams Hack the instant it recharges, and then slot a purple proc into Hack (along with the Achilles Heel -res proc).
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(QR)
Anything on a ST BS attack chain? I'm rolling a BS/Regen (First scrapper ever!) and I would really appreciate this info.
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Hack-Disembowel-Hack-Headsplitter
Can't remember the exact recharge needed, but it's very high, so your best alternative is to throw in Parry where needed.
In terms of DPS Hack is your strongest, HS and Disembowel are equivalent, and Parry lags behind (making up for it with the +Def)
My BS/Shield uses Hack-Disembowel-Headsplitter (with a slight lag at the end) and with AAO fully saturated achieves a 6 minute Pylon solo time (though needs a few blues about halfway through) which I believe leaves me at around 250DPS.
Edit - Lol, and Chaos string posts the same while I'm typing, He's better at the numbers than me, so I'd trust him, especially when it comes to the overall DPS (I believe we use a similar build, though I haven't seen his, and both the AH proc and Hecatomb's will help you immensely)
My time of 5:53 vs. Pylon with AAO saturated put me at 236dps, so your estimate of 250dps for 6 minutes is a little high.
Question for everyone:
When considering IOed out builds, how much total recharge should I be comfortably allowing for?
Right now I'm shooting for around 200% from hasten, setIOs and power enhancements.
Is that too low? Too high? Thoughts?
Be well, people of CoH.
Are you planning on calculating DPS on these builds then presenting them all in a nice way for the rest of us? If so, also add the DPE the chain chews. I'm considering calculating the average resistances of mobs and calculating the average DPS for the various primaries just like I did the secondaries and that would help.