That's a bit low. My Scrapper is running 138.8% global without purples, add 95% from enhancements and you're up to 233.8%. I'd say 200-250% is reasonable, /SR can get a bit more.
If that's the case, then some of the chains presented in this thread must have some nasty pauses.
Example:
Incinerate, Cremate, GFS
1.716, 1.584, 2.376 aracantime casts
Powers don't start recharging until activation time is done, true?
GFS has a recharge of 12 seconds and we need to get it down to (1.716+1.584) 3.3. (12-3.3)/3.3 = ~264% total recharge needed. (Or is my equation wrong?)
Where's someone going to come up with that level of recharge?
70 from hasten, 87.5 from 5 purples and 5 LotGs, the purple sets only give 68.9% recharge... (EDIT: Correction: Purple single targets give 89.92)
I'm still missing 37.6% recharge.
Doable with other sets and going with different slotting on GFS, but we really are pushing the envelope of doable here. (After correction and considering all the other +recharge buffs... ok, I'll set 270 as the cap.)
Which I guess is the point.
Be well, people of CoH.
You calculated the Arcanatimes wrong there Billz.
The method is (roundUp(base/.132)+1)*.132.
Incinerate has an Arcanatime activation of 1.848, Cremate of 1.716, and GFS of 2.508. Plug those numbers into your calculation, and you'll get the right numbers.
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Hack simply has substantially better DPA than anything else in the Broadsword set.
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Umm... what? I agree that Hack is a great attack, and when slotted in a build with some procs, it MIGHT have better DPA than other attacks. I agree that there are advantages to doubling up an attack, such as getting extra mileage out of a good proc, like a purple or Achilles' Heel. But just raw DPA? Head Splitter beats it, and Soaring Dragon isn't far behind.
Mids' average damage, Arcanatime:
74.60 DPA Head Splitter (187.1 damage in 2.508 seconds)
71.28 DPA Hack (112.9 damage in 1.584 seconds)
68.13 DPA Disembowel (134.9 damage in 1.980 seconds)
43.43 DPA Slash (68.8 damage in 1.584 seconds)
36.49 DPA Parry (57.8 damage in 1.584 seconds)
Head Splitter -> Hack -> Disembowel = 71.62 DPS at +293% recharge
Head Splitter -> Hack -> Disembowel -> Hack = 71.55 DPS at +305% recharge
Head Splitter -> Hack -> Disembowel -> Slash = 65.79 DPS at +172% recharge
Head Splitter -> Hack -> Disembowel -> Parry = 64.35 DPS at +172% recharge
Head Splitter -> Parry -> Hack -> Disembowel -> Parry = 59.58 DPS at +108% recharge
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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You calculated the Arcanatimes wrong there Billz.
The method is (roundUp(base/.132)+1)*.132.
Incinerate has an Arcanatime activation of 1.848, Cremate of 1.716, and GFS of 2.508. Plug those numbers into your calculation, and you'll get the right numbers.
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Fark.
Left out the +1 in the equation. Thank you. Redoing it all.
EDIT: Fixed. Our numbers are the same now. But I have to go back through and make sure that all the attack chains I created are still valid.
EDIT2: Looks like the only chain I need to redo is for EM.
Be well, people of CoH.
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74.60 DPA Head Splitter (187.1 damage in 2.508 seconds)
71.28 DPA Hack (112.9 damage in 1.584 seconds)
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Ah, I see. Server ticks take a much larger bite out of Hack than they do from Headsplitter. That's something I didn't account for in the preliminary analysis I used to plan my attack chain; I was just taking the ratio straight from RedTomax.
Still, doubling up Hack gets a fair bit more from AH and Hecatomb procs, so I stand by the 2-Hack chain.
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74.60 DPA Head Splitter (187.1 damage in 2.508 seconds)
71.28 DPA Hack (112.9 damage in 1.584 seconds)
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, I see. Server ticks take a much larger bite out of Hack than they do from Headsplitter. That's something I didn't account for in the preliminary analysis I used to plan my attack chain; I was just taking the ratio straight from RedTomax.
Still, doubling up Hack gets a fair bit more from AH and Hecatomb procs, so I stand by the 2-Hack chain.
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Oh, I'll agree with you there. The two Hack chain with as small a gap as possible is probably the best achievable DPS chain in practice because of the additional mileage from the procs.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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On FM's DoT, only the two swords have it for the chain I was using, and CoD made it seem like they were nothing but an 80% chance of all the DoT hitting. So I tacked on that damage at 80% of the actual value but didn't allow it to affect the crit value.
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FYI, CoD doesn't seem to indicate this anymore, but unless something changed with FM and FB I think the DoT chances are CancelOnMiss. That means that there's an 80% chance for the first DoT to happen, and if it occurs there's an 80% chance for the second one to fire off, but if not the second will never fire. So the DoT's stop firing once they get a miss.
If they are still set up like that (and I wouldn't be able to check until tonight), then the proper way to calculate the average number of DoT damage tics for 5 tics of 80% DoT with the CancelOnMiss flag would be:
0.8 + (0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8) =
0.8 + 0.64 + 0.512 + 0.4096 + 0.32768 = 2.68928
Or, around 2.7 tics of DoT on average.
4 Tics of 80% CancelOnMiss produce an average of 2.3616 tics
3 = 1.952
2 = 1.44
Ok... now that I'm working with corrected arcanatime, here's what I've got for attack chains and the necessary recharges.
Brute - DM
Gloom, MG, Smite, SL
Needs 225% rec-red in MG
Scrap - DM
MG, Smite, SL, Smite
Needs 234% rec-red in MG
Brute - FM
Gloom, Incinerate, GFS
Needs 278% rec-red in MG
Scrap- FM
Incinerate, Cremate, GFS
Needs 237% rec-red in GFS
Brute - SM
SS, SF, Gloom, SF, HM
Needs 279% rec-red in SS
Brute - SS
KO, Punch, Gloom, Punch, Haymaker, Punch
Needs 238% rec-red in KO Blow
Brute - EM
ET, Gloom, BS, TF
Needs 237% rec-red in Total Focus
Scrap - BS
HS, Hack, Disembowel, Slash
Needs 172% rec-red in Headsplitter
NOTE: For HS, Hack, Dis, Hack: Hack would need 304% rec-red
Scrap - Kat
GD, GC, SD, GC
Needs 250% rec-red in GD
Scrap - MA
Storm, Crane, Crippling
Needs 244% rec-red in Crane
Suggestions? Corrections? Stonings? Going a little over my goal of max 270% total recharge, but I'm betting these are still possible on that front. Is end usage sustainable? Don't know yet.
Be well, people of CoH.
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[ QUOTE ]
On FM's DoT, only the two swords have it for the chain I was using, and CoD made it seem like they were nothing but an 80% chance of all the DoT hitting. So I tacked on that damage at 80% of the actual value but didn't allow it to affect the crit value.
[/ QUOTE ]
FYI, CoD doesn't seem to indicate this anymore, but unless something changed with FM and FB I think the DoT chances are CancelOnMiss. That means that there's an 80% chance for the first DoT to happen, and if it occurs there's an 80% chance for the second one to fire off, but if not the second will never fire. So the DoT's stop firing once they get a miss.
If they are still set up like that (and I wouldn't be able to check until tonight), then the proper way to calculate the average number of DoT damage tics for 5 tics of 80% DoT with the CancelOnMiss flag would be:
0.8 + (0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8) =
0.8 + 0.64 + 0.512 + 0.4096 + 0.32768 = 2.68928
Or, around 2.7 tics of DoT on average.
4 Tics of 80% CancelOnMiss produce an average of 2.3616 tics
3 = 1.952
2 = 1.44
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Interesting. Please get back to me when you find out what's happening on live.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Suggestions? Corrections? Stonings? Going a little over my goal of max 270% total recharge, but I'm betting these are still possible on that front. Is end usage sustainable? Don't know yet.
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Brute - DM
MG/Gloom/Smite/SL/Gloom/Smite
Needs 264% recharge in Gloom
My Martial Arts scrapper goes with Storm Kick, Eagles Claw, Storm Kick, Crane Kick, and repeat. Not sure how much my recharge value is due to being at work.
nice thread. Wasn't there a guy working on building a program to do all these calculations? you know for the arcana-ly challenged? anyway, I know what to shoot for now.
Roxy On DA...Finally!
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Scrap - BS
HS, Hack, Disembowel, Slash
Needs 172% rec-red in Headsplitter
NOTE: For HS, Hack, Dis, Hack: Hack would need 304% rec-red
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The second chain outperforms the first one with just 220% +rech and a 0.5 second gap. More +rech just means it outperforms the first one by more.
*shakes head* I really need to stop trying to participate in these discussions.
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Suggestions?
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MA
Storm Crane Storm Crippling
+225% recharge in Storm Kick
(Storm Kick does much higher DPA)
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Suggestions? Corrections? Stonings? Going a little over my goal of max 270% total recharge, but I'm betting these are still possible on that front. Is end usage sustainable? Don't know yet.
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Brute - DM
MG/Gloom/Smite/SL/Gloom/Smite
Needs 264% recharge in Gloom
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Yours: 1.23/1.33/1.11/.93/1.33/1.11 in 9.372 = .75112
Mine: 1.33/1.23/1.11/.93 in 6.864 = .67
You win.
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My Martial Arts scrapper goes with Storm Kick, Eagles Claw, Storm Kick, Crane Kick, and repeat. Not sure how much my recharge value is due to being at work.
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Yours: 1.25/.823/1.25/1.06 in 6.732 = .651
Mine: 1.25/1.06/.887 in 4.752 = .673
Keeping mine.
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The second chain outperforms the first one with just 220% +rech and a 0.5 second gap. More +rech just means it outperforms the first one by more.
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Yours: 1.037/1.035/.99/1.035 in 7.656+.5 or 8.156 = .5023
Mine: 1.037/1.035/.99/.63 in 7.656 = .482
You win, but that .5 sec pause would drive me nuts.
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Storm Crane Storm Crippling
[/ QUOTE ]
Yours: 1.25/1.06/1.25/.887 in 5.808 = .766
Mine: 1.25/1.06/.887 in 4.752 = .673
You win again.
Any others?
EDIT: Specifically with SuperStrength? That chain looks UGLY.
Be well, people of CoH.
What do these numbers mean?
Yours: 1.25/1.06/1.25/.887 in 5.808 = .766
Mine: 1.25/1.06/.887 in 4.752 = .673
Also, what enhancements would someone put into those attacks for MA? What would you put into EC as far as enhancements go?
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Yours: 1.037/1.035/.99/1.035 in 7.656+.5 or 8.156 = .5023
Mine: 1.037/1.035/.99/.63 in 7.656 = .482
You win, but that .5 sec pause would drive me nuts.
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It's a good place for Buildup, Conserve Power, Hasten, Active Defense, Aid Self... anything that would interrupt your attack chain anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
What do these numbers mean?
Yours: 1.25/1.06/1.25/.887 in 5.808 = .766
Mine: 1.25/1.06/.887 in 4.752 = .673
Also, what enhancements would someone put into those attacks for MA? What would you put into EC as far as enhancements go?
[/ QUOTE ]
The numbers in the slashes are the unspecified damage values for each attack in the chain*EDIT: divided by the adjusted activation time. The "actual" DPA.* Later, I'll multiply those by the AT melee damage modifier for level 50. I use the unspecified values (all pulled from City of Data) to make my life easier when figuring out all the various final damage values.
The "in" # is the adjusted time of the attack chain in question, adjusted by arcanatime. Arcanatime gives us a more accurate activation time due to some clunky crud happening with server ticks that I won't pretend to understand fully.
As for slotting, for the purposes of this bit of useless fun, I'll be plugging in 95% damage buff from enhancements.
I'll also be seeing how the various secondaries affect the primary chain including damage auras and damge buffs from the secondary like fiery embrace+blazing aura, or against all odds.
SECOND EDIT: On those numbers in the slashes, I also rounded them off just to get quick figure estimations on which chain was better.
So I got 1.25 for storm kick.
Storm kick's actual unspecified damage is 1.32 smashin
It's posted cast time is .83 seconds.
Take the cast time and slap it into arcanatime it looks like this:
(roundup(.83/.132)+1)*.132 = X
(roundup(6.288)+1)*.132 = X
8*.132 = 1.056
1.32/1.056 = 1.25 Damage per Arcanatime
Be well, people of CoH.
Thanks, I was asking what are generally thought of as good enhacnes to go into an MA/SD scrappers atttacks, since I can't get anyone to post about my build. Just trying to ride your thunder here and get an answer.
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Thanks, I was asking what are generally thought of as good enhacnes to go into an MA/SD scrappers atttacks, since I can't get anyone to post about my build. Just trying to ride your thunder here and get an answer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Completely logical! Purple sets! And Touch of Death and Mako's Bite for defense. No, seriously. To get to the levels of recharge we're discussing in this thread you're going to have to be IOed out head to toe.
MA is kind of the red-headed step child these days, it seems, and I've never gotten past the 20s with it, so I'd be the wrong person to ask. Hopefully another MA user will come help you out. nudgenudgewinkwink.
I do find it very interesting that eagle's claw isn't even in use for a high DPS build.
Be well, people of CoH.
It's jawsome for a high-hangtime build though.
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Suggestions? Corrections? Stonings? Going a little over my goal of max 270% total recharge, but I'm betting these are still possible on that front. Is end usage sustainable? Don't know yet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Scrapper - Spines
Ripper/DB/Throw/DB
Needs 226% recharge in Dark Blast
[ QUOTE ]
The numbers in the slashes are the unspecified damage values for each attack in the chain*EDIT: divided by the adjusted activation time. The "actual" DPA.* Later, I'll multiply those by the AT melee damage modifier for level 50. I use the unspecified values (all pulled from City of Data) to make my life easier when figuring out all the various final damage values.
[/ QUOTE ]
Could you post the calculations for each chain.
I'm curious how they stand up to each other.
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Question for everyone:
When considering IOed out builds, how much total recharge should I be comfortably allowing for?
Right now I'm shooting for around 200% from hasten, setIOs and power enhancements.
Is that too low? Too high? Thoughts?
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95% from enhancements, 65% from Hasten (don't assume perma), 70% from IO set bonuses. */SR gets and extra 20%. That'd put the expectable allowance at 230% or 250% for */SR.