My eyes are opened!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IF he was aiming to compare ATs the use of those powers would be a huge foul that would compromise everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you're the mind reader now? You know he's not using them on his scrapper?

[/ QUOTE ]


I also think I noted another option about simply IF he wanted to play defensively. I just state IFs, all though, do question the final tactics used.

Let me put it in even shorter words as my pervious one again seem to have been too verbose:

He used the wrong powers for the situation. Test is inaccurate and irrelevant.


[/ QUOTE ]

Translation: His build sucks.

Stop wasting my time.

---

Be well, people of CoH.

[ QUOTE ]
Translation: His build sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I'm arguing semantics (for some) here, as some[one] may call it: minutia, but :

His playstyle sucked.

[ QUOTE ]
Stop wasting my time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't put a gun to your head to reply. If it's a waste of time, it's you wasting it yourself.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Controllers specifically were designed to not be able to solo very SLOOOOOW, they had next to no attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed that statement for you. I solo'd a Controller in Issue 1. Did so quite well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once he got his pets and loaded up in hasten to summon herds of pets, which was not intended and eventually nerfed. That was, though, one of the points where the devs decided no AT should really be that slow at soloing and doubled the damage the AT did from level 1 thanks to containment while nerfing the pets they found overpowered.

The full intention to this was to make the Controller a solo AT, not just a team one. It was from that patch that the Controller was considered redesigned to solo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me quote something said earlier in this thread...

[ QUOTE ]
You read minds?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh right, that was you wasn't it?

My Controller was not built to summon hoards of pets. He also made level 35 before Containment. Most controllers don't get pets until they're level 32. The Illusion Controller gets Pseudo-pets at level...18, I believe. But, its recharge is very long compared to the duration of the Phantom Army. So, they can't be relied upon for every battle. Unless, of course, you wait 3 minutes after each one. I'm not that patient.

The Controller was never meant to play solo at the same speed as a Scrapper. The fact that a Fire/Kin can is a fluke of the synergy of 2 sets. But then, the Fire/Kin does have its problems just like any other Power-sets/AT.

---

There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

I read dev posts. I also read the manual and strategy guide that came with the game that noted how Controllers were "the only team centric" AT.

You know, those books they publish to told us what they intended so we didn't had to read their minds?

I think I never said the Controller was buffed to solo as a scrapper though. I said it got it's damage doubled so it was able to solo reliably without being forced to rely on the pets (that they clearly stated were never intended to begin with.)

---

My build is L12. There's not much I can do with it at that point. The Scrapper is ALSO L12.

It's the typical argument. I describe a situation and am attacked as being a bad player. That's not an argument, that's simply dismissive and says nothing.

The Minions were doing around 20 damage each. If I entered melee range, that jumped to 40 each. With 235 health (or so), facing three such minions, I would not have lasted very long had I not sought to take one out of the fight. Not having damage output, I had to find a defense. I used the Force Bolt juggle. It may not have been the most endurance efficient, but it's the only defense I had. Power Bolt is the only attack I have, other than melee powers (Air Superiority, Sands of Mu).

The point was that using two powers, and only two powers, completely drained my character's endurance in the time it took to defeat one foe, and a minion at that. Had I been playing a Blaster, Scrapper, Controller, or even a Tanker, I wouldn't have had that problem. The Tanker would have been borderline.

I never said the character should solo as fast as a Scrapper. I said the endurance used to achieve the same ends should be comparable. I can't imagine why that notion generates such resistance.

---

[ QUOTE ]
My build is L12. There's not much I can do with it at that point. The Scrapper is ALSO L12.

It's the typical argument. I describe a situation and am attacked as being a bad player. That's not an argument, that's simply dismissive and says nothing.

The Minions were doing around 20 damage each. If I entered melee range, that jumped to 40 each. With 235 health (or so), facing three such minions, I would not have lasted very long had I not sought to take one out of the fight. Not having damage output, I had to find a defense. I used the Force Bolt juggle. It may not have been the most endurance efficient, but it's the only defense I had. Power Bolt is the only attack I have, other than melee powers (Air Superiority, Sands of Mu).

The point was that using two powers, and only two powers, completely drained my character's endurance in the time it took to defeat one foe, and a minion at that. Had I been playing a Blaster, Scrapper, Controller, or even a Tanker, I wouldn't have had that problem. The Tanker would have been borderline.

I never said the character should solo as fast as a Scrapper. I said the endurance used to achieve the same ends should be comparable. I can't imagine why that notion generates such resistance.

[/ QUOTE ]

And there it is. It's not a "bad argument" because it's so frequently applicable to your studies, Ultimo. You just plain don't play very smart and your tests always skew your results in your favor.

For fun, I pulled up a FF/Energy Defender of my own to look at it's build at level 12. I will admit that I built it to take advantage of KB rather than use defensive shielding (it was a concept I later abandoned, mostly due to wanting to try something else with sets I hadn't played much instead) so it has three attacks by level 12. Taking out ET in place of a standard FF shield, and maybe taking Detention Field out and opting for Dispersion Bubble, I still have two attacks to kill spawns... and that's plenty for a Defender at that level. When soloing her, I also jumped around a lot to confuse the AI -- something you never seem to do, or report doing, which just leads me to think that you don't think when you're playing.

In short, I'm attacking your strategies because they're the basis for your arguments. If your strategies are faulty, then your arguments crumble by default because they have nothing to stand on. Honestly, this is my preferred method of debate and I really wish it wasn't so easy to employ on you. You really do have some interesting ideas at times, but you insist on basing them on problems that don't exist and it ends up getting in the way of your idea.

Also, the two powers you chose to use were the weakest Defender attack, and an attack that does basically no damage that costs the same as your weakest damage power. This is not a valid test. Run the test again with Power Bolt and Power Blast and see how that goes. Just remember that you're a defender -- you're not built to absorb hits like a Scrapper and have to take certain actions a Scrapper doesn't to avoid as much damage as possible.

As to your last point, if you weren't trying to say that your Defender should be able to be comparable to a Scrapper, then why bother telling us how long it took you to flail about as one? That's just pointless data that only serves to back up the claims of your inability to play intelligently, which hurts your argument foundations.

---

Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage

[ QUOTE ]
I used the Force Bolt juggle. It may not have been the most endurance efficient, but it's the only defense I had. Power Bolt is the only attack I have, other than melee powers (Air Superiority, Sands of Mu).

[/ QUOTE ]

At level 12, you should not have needed Force Bolt to provide defense. You haven't reached the 0.65 damage modifier yet, and you have more hit points relative to your foe than at level 20. You're no Blaster at that level, but you should have been able to deal enough damage to finish the fight. You did not, because you don't have enough attacks.

My main Defender is FF/Rad, so I've gone through that sort of mission with LESS damage per shot than you have. I'll grant you it's slow, I've been saying FF needs a damage boost since release. But if Power Bolt is all you've got, that's because you have chosen to only take Power Bolt. At 12 I had Neutrino, Irradiate, Punch, and Brawl, and I used them. And that was before Vet Rewards, nowadays I wouldn't use such a build without Sands of Mu and Nemesis Staff. (And I've also replaced Irradiate with Electron Haze, at the time I didn't realize it was a better attack in the long run)

As for Controllers, I had a Controller back in Issue 1 and I soloed him, too. Bosses were hard, but I could actually take on Minions and Lts just fine. My secret was I was a Kin (so a damage boost right from level 2) and I took Pool attacks. Lots of Pool attacks. Containment basically let the average Controller solo, but it was possible before that, if hard.

There is still no option to let the general Defender solo. It's just luck that the soloable Defender choices outnumber the less soloable ones. Which really says nothing about Scrappers.

---

Against three yellow minions, at range (I was using Hover, which keeps me out of melee range, and provides a little defense), I would not last long in a straight fight. As I say, using hover, I moved around to find cover, forcing the foes to chase me around. However, with low ceilings and smallish rooms, to say nothing of other nearby spawns, my freedom to move around was somewhat restricted. Nevertheless, I'm not a fool, and I've played the game for a while, so I know how to use my surroundings to my advantage. Of course, I won't mention that the Scrapper never needs to...

The character has Force Bolt, Power Bolts and Energy Torrent. He also has Air Superiority (taken in case something DOES get to melee range, plus it's just too darn useful) and Sands of Mu (Vet power). The melee powers don't often get used. Sands has dismal accuracy, and so is used only when not critical. Air Superiority does the same damage as Power Bolts, but puts me in greater jeopardy due to higher melee damage. Thus, I try not to need to use it.

The AI wouldn't have been confused by me moving around, they were shooting at me. Force Bolt isn't an attack. It's purpose isn't to do damage. It's a defense. In that sense, it's no different that using a toggle defense. It's just one I have to click periodically.

Using Energy Torrent was pointless, it does the same damage as Power Bolts and uses more endurance. Granted, I could have hit two targets with it (if they were close enough together), but neither would have been defeated before the endurance was used up. I mean, it was used up using Power Bolts.

I would have more health than one minion, but not more than three. Good lord, Forstfire's Jack Frost PET has almost as much health as my Defender. These guys were doing 23 damage per attack. With three of them, that's 69 damage per "round." Four attacks, and I'm dead. The only defense I have is the vain hope that Hover will make them miss, or to use Force Bolt to keep one of them busy. It's the only defense available at that level.


In any case, it's just an example for the sake of illustration. Using two powers, an offense (and the weakest one at that) and a defense, left the Defender drained of all endurance in order to defeat one minion. The Scrapper used barely a tenth of that. Even my MA/Shield Scrapper with two toggles running only used about an eighth of his endurance to defeat similar foes.

I stand by my position. It should take just as much endurance for a Defender to defeat a foe as for a Scrapper to do so. That means either more damage, to match the endurance being used, or less endurance to match the damage output. I'm speaking of the average character here. Obviously, not every character will be identical, but the difference should be minimal if a standard rate is established.

To reiterate:

All characters in the game are expected to overcome the same challenges, to reach the same ends. The endurance used to achieve the same ends should be comparable, regardless of AT or power set. That's balanced. Standing around unable to act is not fun, whether it be because of stuns or holds, or because of excessive endurance costs.

---

[ QUOTE ]
All characters in the game are expected to overcome the same challenges, to reach the same ends. The endurance used to achieve the same ends should be comparable, regardless of AT or power set. That's balanced. Standing around unable to act is not fun, whether it be because of stuns or holds, or because of excessive endurance costs.

[/ QUOTE ]

And those that choose to solo should build their characters for soloing and use tactics that work for soloing.

You've chosen to fail at both of those with your defender.

But I wish to help.

Hover is a waste or AirSup is a waste. Chose one.

If you choose hover:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|</pre><hr />

Then Hover. And blast. Detention field one enemy, kill the second, get to work on the third.

If you go air sup instead, detention field 1, airsup 2 and blast 3.

If you wish to solo, don't build like a team player.

---

Be well, people of CoH.

[ QUOTE ]
All characters in the game are expected to overcome the same challenges, to reach the same ends. The endurance used to achieve the same ends should be comparable, regardless of AT or power set. That's balanced. Standing around unable to act is not fun, whether it be because of stuns or holds, or because of excessive endurance costs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can close your beedy little eyes and stop flapping your head. The game already has a decent balance of endurance usage for comparable powers but you refuse to see it.

If you are constantly running out of endurance it is due to the choices you make, perhaps not slotting enough endurance redux, or maybe using aoe attacks to kill single targets, or mabye using your heavy attack to finish off a mob with only a few HP instead of waiting for a lower damage, lower end attack to come up.

I have an Ice/sonic corruptor that is almost always out of endurance because I chose to take several endruance heavy toggles. I do not complain about this because I decided I would rather have those powers on a team and attack less in order to benifit the team as a whole.

You know the rules of the game. You make the choice of what AT and powers to pick. If you run out of endurance it is your choice.

---

Considering I didn't take anything that helps my team (well, Dispersion Bubble, which I only use on teams because the end cost is currently prohibitive, and the defense provided is negigible), I don't consider this a character designed for teaming.

That aside, I could have taken Detention Field (though not as early as Force Bolt), but teams hate it and its recharge is terribly long, making it of limited use. One Range enhancement, and most mobs, even ranged ones, have a difficult time reaching me past the Force Bolt.

You say "Hover. And blast. Detention field one enemy, kill the second, get to work on the third." Detention Field will have worn off by the time I defeat one foe, during which time the second would be shooting at me, forcing a retreat, just as if I'd used Force Bolt. There's no real benefit or difference.


[ QUOTE ]
You can close your beedy little eyes and stop flapping your head. The game already has a decent balance of endurance usage for comparable powers but you refuse to see it.

[/ QUOTE ]

My "beedy little eyes" ( I think you meant beady - if you're going to insult me, at least spell it correctly)?You couldn't have said that without being rude? I mean, seriously.

OBVIOUSLY, the point is that I don't think there IS a decent balance. Simply saying there is doesn't make it so. That's why I've provided examples.

I have not slotted at all for End Redx. There are only two slots in each attack, they're both accuracy. That could be an issue, but Training Enhancements make very little difference either way. As I said, I've played for quite a while. I know how to play, and I know enough not to use a heavy attack to finish a foe with 1 hit point, nevermind that I don't HAVE a heavy attack (aside from the AOE Torrent, which I already SAID I don't use often).

All of that is beside the point.


The point is that we are constantly running out of endurance. Even after Stamina, it's a serious problem for many Tankers and Defenders (as well as some other classes and sets). The fact that there have been innumerable threads about this is evidence that I'm not alone in this perception.

The simple fact is that it is not fun constantly running out of endurance to do even the most basic of things. My L41 Tanker, running only the Invulnerability toggles, runs out of endurance spamming only KO Blow. That's ONE attack, and he has triple slotted Stamina. this Defender runs out of endurance using one very minimal toggle (the result would be the same if I turned it off), and spammed two 1st tier attacks, and ran out of endurance defeating ONE minion. Both of these characters have then no choice but to retreat and rest or stand there and soak it up. The Tanker can, and by virtue of PFF, so can the Defender. The problem is that they HAVE to.

Other charcters don't face the same problem. Claws showed me just how much more fun it is when you're not stopping to rest every couple of minutes. ALL characters should be that much fun. That's all I'm trying to achieve. Fun for all.

---

So, you only have 2 slots in your two attacks, both accuracy, but your level 12 has trouble dealing damage? And yet you didn't make "a team build"?

What the heck did you do, 6-slot sprint?

---

[ QUOTE ]
That's all I'm trying to achieve. Fun for all.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can't.
Some people find different things fun. That's why WoW still has its player base and they didnt all abandone it to come here. Its why my sister left this game to play WoW, and my brother left this game to play Guild Wars. I'm still here. (We all are adults, we all tried all three of these games) We all have different tastes in fun. You can't define it to suit everyone.
No one can.

I had a great deal of fun leveling up my first Emp Defender who was all primary for the first 30 something levels. (Way way back in Issue two?)
I had a great deal of fun leveling up my first Invul/SS tank way back in i3. I could go on, but I have 21 level 50s which played out mostly content, very little PL, and plenty of fun.

Some I teamed, some I soloed. (or did both)
Yet I had fun with almost all of them.
(I really didnt like the Warshade, but not that there is anything inherently wrong with them, they just don't suit my needs in stimulating the "fun" centers of my brain. I got one to 50 mostly through spite!)

The point is... you can decide what is fun for YOU. You CAN'T decide what is fun for all others.
"There is none so blind as he who will not see!"

---

"The one thing that can stop a full team of MasterMinds dead in its tracks... a doorway!" --Frogfather

*resumes playing the game.... slotting endurance reductions and enhancing damage in each power where necessary, realizing the power is still in my hands and I'm still in control of my build's outcome*


...

---

My Virtue Projects

AE: 38959 - Invasion of the Dark Realm

[ QUOTE ]
My L41 Tanker, running only the Invulnerability toggles, runs out of endurance spamming only KO Blow. That's ONE attack, and he has triple slotted Stamina

[/ QUOTE ]

People might believe you if you stopping providing examples that are impossible without being attacked by a sapper.

When you make statements like that, there are two options. You're seriously mistaken, or you're lying. The rude dismissive comments you encounter are beause people choose not to accuse you of lying. However, your examples so strongly contradict what I, and others, have seen ingame, and can show with real numbers, that taking such claims as simple mistakes becomes increasingly difficult.

I absolutely hate the state of defender endurance efficiency. Yet, even I find it hard to read statements like "this Defender runs out of endurance using one very minimal toggle (the result would be the same if I turned it off), and spammed two 1st tier attacks, and ran out of endurance defeating ONE minion".

If you run out of endurance defeating one minion that isn't a sapper, the problem doesn't exist within the archetype, which makes your crusade somewhat ridiculous.

---

[ QUOTE ]
you're lying

[/ QUOTE ]Ultimo lying to reinforce his point is pretty much the only way he operates.

Then he threatens to attack people who dare to notice this.

---

In the spirit of Billz' "trying to help", here's a level 1-12 build for a FF/Energy Defender. I won't even make you use Mid's, so people can pick it apart in the thread!

Level 1 - Personal Force Field, Power Bolt
Level 2 - Power Blast
Level 3 - +1 slot to Power Bolt, +1 slot to Power Blast
Level 4 - Energy Torrent
Level 5 - +1 slot to Energy Torrent, +1 slot to Power Bolt
Level 6 - Swift/Hurdle
Level 7 - +1 slot to Energy Torrent, +1 slot to Power Blast
Level 8 - Hover/Combat Jumping
Level 9 - +1 slot to Power Bolt, +1 slot to Power Blast
Level 10 - Power Burst
Level 11 - +2 slots to Power Burst
Level 12 - Dispersion Bubble

So now it looks like this, assuming DO slotting since you're level 12:

Personal Force Field (1 - Def)
Power Bolt (1 - Acc) (3 - Acc) (5 - Dam) (9 - Dam)
Power Blast (2 - Acc) (3 - Acc) (7 - Dam) (9 - Dam)
Energy Torrent (4 - Acc) (5 - Acc) (7 - Dam)
Swift/Hurdle (6 - Run/Jump)
Hover/Combat Jumping (8 - Def)
Power Burst (10 - Acc) (11 - Acc) (11 - Dam)
Dispersion Bubble (12 - EndRed)

This leaves you with plenty of attacks to deal with a solo spawn, plus you're still set up for a travel power at 14 if you want it and can still get Stamina at 20 and one of your teammate shields at either 16 or 18.

Generic tactics:<ul type="square">[*]Energy Torrent is used against multiple minions to keep them off their feet and performs better than Force Bolt as it's an AoE and does nearly 5x the damage for only slightly over twice the endurance.[*]Personal Force Field is the "I'm getting hit too much" toggle for if you need a break[*]The 3 single-target attacks are slotted to hit, and slotted for higher damage so it that there is less time to defeat each mob to reduce incoming attacks.[*]Swift + Hover can be used to keep out of melee range entirely, my personal preference is Hurdle + Combat Jumping for the fast maneuverability.[*]Allowing mobs that have guns for their ranged attack to enter melee range makes for prime kiting, because they'll run to follow you after they put the gun away instead of pulling it back out to shoot (AI is dumb).[*]Dispersion Bubble is mostly a waste of endurance at this point unless facing mobs that mez; it's included for mez protection.[*]The single target attack chance for knockback/down can be used while cycling targets to reduce incoming attacks, especially in combination with Energy Torrent.[/list]
If you still have trouble soloing at level 12 with this... uhm, I'm just not going to finish that. I can't see how, especially if you follow the little "tactic" tips.

Yes it'd be nice if Negligence applied to your own hit points as well, but you really shouldn't need it to complete a solo mission in under 30 minutes.

---

[ QUOTE ]
Considering I didn't take anything that helps my team (well, Dispersion Bubble, which I only use on teams because the end cost is currently prohibitive, and the defense provided is negigible), I don't consider this a character designed for teaming.

[/ QUOTE ]

...Dispersion Bubble's endurance cost is prohibitive? Wot?
Then again, at 50, still mostly slotted with SO's and without more than a couple minor set bonuses, my FF/Rad runs Dispersion Bubble, 3 Leadership toggles, Hover, buffs a full team and occasionally uses Force Bubble while firing off AoE blasts.

At 20 my FF/Rad would be running Dispersion because at that point it's not uncommon to be fighting mezzers and every bit of defense helps anyway. i just don't understand how you can run dry using nothing but 2 attacks and Hover. Are the attacks unslotted? Where the hell did you put all the slots if you don't run Dispersion and it's not a teaming build?


While not a fan of FF/Energy, i have to try this now and see for myself.
i will have results in a couple days if i remember to spend a bit every time i log on working on this alt. 20 should be fairly quick that way. Then i'll try smacking down Mooks.

---

Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

I put significant slots into my "defenses," that is, PFF is triple slotted, Hover is triple slotted (for manueverablity).

I'll rebuild as suggested and see if it makes a difference, but I'm not optimistic.

Tomorrow, though. My eyes feel like pebbles, darn allergies...

---

[ QUOTE ]
I put significant slots into my "defenses," that is, PFF is triple slotted, Hover is triple slotted (for manueverablity).

I'll rebuild as suggested and see if it makes a difference, but I'm not optimistic.

Tomorrow, though. My eyes feel like pebbles, darn allergies...

[/ QUOTE ]
Ew... no need to add slots to PFF for defense, it's above the soft-cap without any enhancements.

As for maneuverability... that's why I like Combat Jumping. It's faster and has immobilize protection with the same defense.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My L41 Tanker, running only the Invulnerability toggles, runs out of endurance spamming only KO Blow. That's ONE attack, and he has triple slotted Stamina

[/ QUOTE ]

People might believe you if you stopping providing examples that are impossible without being attacked by a sapper.

When you make statements like that, there are two options. You're seriously mistaken, or you're lying. The rude dismissive comments you encounter are beause people choose not to accuse you of lying. However, your examples so strongly contradict what I, and others, have seen ingame, and can show with real numbers, that taking such claims as simple mistakes becomes increasingly difficult.

I absolutely hate the state of defender endurance efficiency. Yet, even I find it hard to read statements like "this Defender runs out of endurance using one very minimal toggle (the result would be the same if I turned it off), and spammed two 1st tier attacks, and ran out of endurance defeating ONE minion".

If you run out of endurance defeating one minion that isn't a sapper, the problem doesn't exist within the archetype, which makes your crusade somewhat ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Outright lie. Even if you were stupid enough to have 0 end redux in all your toggles and 0 in KO blow you still would do better than break even with recovery. Welcome to the ignore list.

---

[ QUOTE ]
My L41 Tanker, running only the Invulnerability toggles, runs out of endurance spamming only KO Blow. That's ONE attack, and he has triple slotted Stamina.

[/ QUOTE ]

rofl

was this a serious post? do i REALLY need to get into any amount of detail about how this scenario simply doesnt play out?

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My L41 Tanker, running only the Invulnerability toggles, runs out of endurance spamming only KO Blow. That's ONE attack, and he has triple slotted Stamina

[/ QUOTE ]

Outright lie. Even if you were stupid enough to have 0 end redux in all your toggles and 0 in KO blow you still would do better than break even with recovery. Welcome to the ignore list.

[/ QUOTE ]

And look! There are even maths!

Running all Invuln toggles with 42% end redux (1 lvl 50 common IO, though, you're much more likely to have 2 SO or 2 30-40 common IOs, which put out bigger numbers anyway) costs .51 end/sec.

Spamming KoB (and nothing else), assuming 2 even level recharge SOs and no end redux, means that you'll be able to use it once every 17.376 seconds (2.376 animation + 15 recharge) for 18.5 endurance. That's a cost of 1.08 end/sec.

Base recovery is 1.67 end/sec. Total end/sec costs are 1.59 end/sec. So, even without Stamina, you're still good on endurance.

---

[ QUOTE ]
I put significant slots into my "defenses," that is, PFF is triple slotted, Hover is triple slotted (for manueverablity).

I'll rebuild as suggested and see if it makes a difference, but I'm not optimistic.

Tomorrow, though. My eyes feel like pebbles, darn allergies...

[/ QUOTE ]

i have a few questions since Nomad Zero (FF/EB) on Justice will be hitting 12 fairly soon:
When you first posted about fighting mooks on a FF/EB you talked about them capping at 20, but your FF/EB is actually 12? Are you using other enemies to force the character and Mooks to be set to 20, or are they actually at your level of 12?

i need to know before i go past 12. Note that i will not be using your slotting. PFF at 50 is usually left at 1 slot on my alts. However, i have no high level alts on Justice and am just soloing as i level. When i hit 12 i may skip using DO's, but i have no idea why anyone with any intelligence would do that. Still, for purposes of testing i will clear out my inspiration tray before fighting the mooks. i'm interested to see how this goes.

Also, i will not be claiming any veteran rewards to make this fair.

Edit: Took a quick look at the ranged defense for Nomad Zero at level 5 with PFF unslotted: 78%. Soft cap is 45% against even cons. Whyinahell would you add more slots to that?!

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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

You may have a point regarding the Tanker and KO Blow. It was a while ago, and I hadn't considered who he had been fighting. The more I think on it, the more I think it was Freakshow, so sapping was probably an issue. It's not, however, a lie. It did happen.

Mooks are L5-20, so they spawned at L12 for my L12 Defender.
I don't ususally play Defense oriented sets, so I wasn't aware that there was no need to slot PFF. I was doing so because I was frequently getting killed right through it. If there's no benefit to slotting it, obviously, I won't do it.

I made several characters together, intended to be a group together (boy I wish there was a way to invite and promote your own characters to your own Supergroup). A Tanker, a Scrapper, a Defender and another Scrapper (he's the one with Claws, so we won't consider him since he's considered an unfair comparison). I'll run all three through a test mission and report back.

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