My eyes are opened!

Necross's post hits the nail on the head regarding all of your suggestions, Ultimo. First you claim that it takes you forever to do something that some other character of yours does effortlessly, but then you back-track and start claiming that how they did/how fast they did something was similar to your experiences even when their tactics allowed them to power through the mission in a fraction of the time you claimed to be taking.

In short, you insist on contradicting yourself and leaving out key pieces of information, which causes most everyone to not take a single thing you say on face value.

The main reason I suggested at all that you were blatantly lying is because you frequently refuse to accept that you were mistaken, instead relying on your faulty memory to provide faultless evidence. I don't care if you "unintentionally lied" mostly because, when it's pointed out that your scenario is impossible, you dismiss it with a "Oh, well, you -might- be right there." You'd rather believe that your poor tactics and shoddy memory are a more reliable source than numbers combined with everyone else's experiences.

Your claims of being experienced with the game run directly counter to how you play the game, which is why I suggest you learn to play the game before you try suggesting improvements to it. You insist on demanding the game be changed to suit your style when your style is apparently "Suck and Die". Case in point: the Defender build you posted. While nothing is inherently wrong with it for solo play at an early level, you chose to slot those early slots sticking 100% to the plan, which means you're burning endurance when you don't have to. What I mean here is, you're going to be replacing those lowlevel enhancements anyway, so why adhere to the slot plan at that level? 1 accuracy is enough, so use Endurance on that other slot. Of course, this ignores the fact that I can go all the way to 27 without slotting any enhancements at all, so I'm not convinced that your slotting was the issue to begin with.

And that just circles us right back around to the crux of your issue: you don't play the game very well. Your tactics are failing, yet rather than change tactics you instead insist the game is the one that should be changed. There is no "you must play one way", but there similarly is no "you can do anything you want and succeed". You have to do *something* that lets you kill mobs without sucking wind, but you insist on thinking your way is the right way when it clearly isn't.

So unless you want to admit that your way to play the game is inherently flawed, I'm not going to bother responding further to your posts in this thread. There is a mountain of evidence to back up the claim that you just plain suck at the game, and practically no evidence to suggest the opposite. Since your desire to change the game is based on your inability to play intelligently, I can't support any change you may propose.

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Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage

Sigh

I'm not backtracking when I run further tests in an effort to reproduce results. If I say something happened, then IT HAPPENED. My interpretaion of the reasons for the occurrence may not be correct, however, and I'm quite prepared to adopt alternative explanations when appropriate. I think I've shown that here and elsewhere.

The three hour run was obviously an aberration. I've said that already. I ran a further test and couldn't reproduce that result. I've said that too. His results were similar to those I achieved in my second test (a more valid test since it was one we could both run identically). I'm sure if we ran it a few more times (and I will because I enjoy the arc), I'm sure we'll continue to get similar results. We'll also continue to get very different results.

Last night I ran the mission against the Mooks in the casino and had to PFF fighting one yellow Hitman because I kept missing him (it was for health, rather than endurance, concerns that I PFFed). Again, outliers like this are not unusual.

I cannot be mistaken about things that happen. It DID take over three hours to do the mission I mentioned. I DO frequently find my characters gasping for breath. My Tanker DID run out of endurance using only KO Blow. These are simple reports of events, there's no way for me to be mistaken about their happening. However, as I indicated, it's entirely possible I've misinterpreted the reasons for these ocurrences. In the case of the Tanker, the problem is compunded by the passage of time and the inability to remember the details of the moment. None of this is deception, but I probably shouldn't have referenced an example when I couldn't recall the details. I simply didn't think we would be stuck discussing the examples rather than the subject.

Further, if I say someone "might" be right, then I mean that. They might be right. Then again, I might be right too. I say I run out of endurance a lot, then it might be my playstyle, or it might be a problem with the game.

I've never claimed to be inexperienced with the game, quite the contrary. I'm inexperienced with specific power sets, but that's not the same thing. I've been playing for a long time. I KNOW how to play. In fact, I take it as a point of pride that someone posted a video of my Tanker tanking as part of a guide on how to tank well (I wish I could find it, I've never actually seen it myself - someone told me about it). Of course, that I play largely Tankers may have an impact on my playstyle on other characters.

That a lot of people say the same thing supports my claim that it's a problem with the game. This is valid when it's a lot of different other people. If 10000 people say there's a problem with the game, and 3 people say there isn't, 10000 times, it's more likely than not that there's a problem (though not certain - see "might" have a point, above). Now, I should clarify, I'm not saying these are accurate numbers, I'm just illustrating the principle. I've seen many different people complain about the endurance issues, and I've seen a handful of people replying to the complaints. That leads me to the conclusion that there is a problem with the game of some kind, and my own experiences support this to some degree. If it were just my own experiences leading me to this conclusion, I would have thought it was something about me or my play. This is not, the case, however.

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i got real money that says ultimo plays petless masterminds

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Nope, never done that. I've sometimes wondered how it would play, though...

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[ QUOTE ]
Nope, never done that. I've sometimes wondered how it would play, though...

[/ QUOTE ]

And you'll probably complain that MM damage is to low if you ever do play it.

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I suspect you know from other threads that I've already said MM damage (personal damage, not overall or pet damage) is too low, and you're baiting me. That would be trolling, so don't do that.

(Actually, I know you know it, since you posted in the thread I made that ended up discussing it)

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Nope, never done that. I've sometimes wondered how it would play, though...

[/ QUOTE ]

I play one. Sorta. Secondary is FF so that I'm more useful on a team than most.

It's slow, but I knew that from the start.

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Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect you know from other threads that I've already said MM damage (personal damage, not overall or pet damage) is too low, and you're baiting me. That would be trolling, so don't do that.

(Actually, I know you know it, since you posted in the thread I made that ended up discussing it)

[/ QUOTE ]
That's kind of like complaining that Cobra Strike damage is too low. Not exactly like it, but close. Masterminds get their damage from their pets, it's the core of that AT's design. i suspect their personal attack damage is so low because the attacks were intended to give MM's a way to supplement their pet's damage and something to do when everything is going smoothly. And to look cool. Perhaps mostly the latter. Masterminds would be excessively overpowered if their personal attacks came near to what their pets already do.

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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

As I say, there was a whole thread that went into this, and I'd rather not open that can of worms again.

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[ QUOTE ]
(Actually, I know you know it, since you posted in the thread I made that ended up discussing it)

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure about that because I don't recall making any kind of post involving that in a thread started by you. Maybe you've got me confused with someone else like you have confused situations with completely different ones throughout these last few pages.

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I checked. It was the thread in which I was trying to get suggestions for building a character based on Dr. Doom. Somehow, it transformed into a discussion about Mastermind attacks. You definitely posted, but I didn't look to see how often, it might have just been once.

Not relevant to this thread though.

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Is it too late to say that the OP is the best at what he does?

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My eyes are fully open to my awful situation,
I shall go at once to Roderic and make him an oration.
I shall tell him I've recovered my forgotten moral senses,
And I don't care twopence-halfpenny for any consequences.
Now I do not want to perish by the sword or by the dagger,
But a martyr may indulge a little pardonable swagger,
And a word or two of compliment my vanity would flatter,
But I've got to die tomorrow, so it really doesn't matter!

... okay, I got that off my chest. It's all that sprang to mind seeing the thread title, and feels so very germaine. Look, Ultimo, You should consider changing your general 'mode' on these forums. If you approach problems as 'Hey, guys, is this what you experience too?' rather than 'This is what I experience, and therefore things need to change based on that,' you might find information is more forthcoming.

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[ QUOTE ]
Look, Ultimo, You should consider changing your general 'mode' on these forums. If you approach problems as 'Hey, guys, is this what you experience too?' rather than 'This is what I experience, and therefore things need to change based on that,' you might find information is more forthcoming.

[/ QUOTE ]

This^^^

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When did the thread title get changed? I need to get in the habit of checking those every time I read the boards...

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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

That would have been Necross, on a previous page... Page 4 for me, of 5 pages...

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[ QUOTE ]
I checked. It was the thread in which I was trying to get suggestions for building a character based on Dr. Doom. Somehow, it transformed into a discussion about Mastermind attacks. You definitely posted, but I didn't look to see how often, it might have just been once.

Not relevant to this thread though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I won't repeat everything I (likely) said in that thread, but to my mind, when you get 75% of your damage for free, you don't need more than 25% damage. It would be like a Tanker whose damage aura did 75% of his overall damage. The low damage is annoying when your concept is that you do more, but you just simply can't do any more, it's all you have room for. Of course the converse to that is that it's all you NEED to do.

As you said, though, not relevant to the thread, except in general terms. As in, each AT has its own feel, and sometimes that means not plowing through a spawn the way a Scrapper can.

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[ QUOTE ]
That would have been Necross, on a previous page... Page 4 for me, of 5 pages...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it was my fault. i tend to do stuff like that on a whim. Anyway, i'm pretty much done with this thread, so i haven't read it the last couple days.

Here's a summary of my impressions before i go: Ultimo made several assertions that didn't sound accurate to me as justifications for major changes to game balance.

Several people posted responses using calculations based on the game's numbers as to why they found Ultimo's anecdotes implausible.

i decided to test one of Ultimo's claims in game while handicapping myself to give the benefit of the doubt.

i posted the results of the test and my experiences did not come close to matching Ultimo's results.

Ultimo then posted that his experiences nearly matched mine in direct contradiction of what he'd earlier presented as proof of why the game needed to be changed. i then quoted both assertions side by side.

Ultimo waffled and equivocated, i had a headdesk moment and decided that, after one last reply to a rather silly statement by Ultimo, there was no point left to posting in this thread.

And that's how i saved the world, got the girl, accused a small chunk of granite of disloyalty to the crown, arm wrestled a porpoise and then moved on to sillier pastures.

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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

I don't agree with your assessment (yes, I know you're shocked).

My assertion has been that endurance costs are too high, and that characters are constantly running out, often in dealing with minor threats. It seemed to me, considering how Claws performed, that Defenders suffered inordinately in this regard. My extensive experience with Tankers led me to conclude that they also suffered disproportionately. I described an experience with my Defender to support this. It turned out that the example I described was an outlier, and not a good example.

Thus I initiated a test roughly concurrent to your own. I found that my Defender and Scrapper both ran out of endurance frequently, supporting my original assertion, but neither seemed to suffer more than the other.

You described your characters having some endurance-related stoppages as well, though perhaps not as frequently as mine did. As I said, the difference was on the small side, from the sound of it, and considering the small sample of data, not very telling. Simple luck would be enough to account for the difference.

In other words, my original assertion stands, that endurance is too costly. As for the rest, well, lacking more definitive data, I can't say more.

I neither waffled nor equivocated. I simply carried on in search of truth.

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[ QUOTE ]
Thus I initiated a test roughly concurrent to your own. I found that my Defender and Scrapper both ran out of endurance frequently, supporting my original assertion, but neither seemed to suffer more than the other.

[/ QUOTE ]
And thus balance is achieved.

If the game was designed such that nobody ever needed to worry about endurance or build towards maximizing the effectiveness of the limited pool you have, then why have it in the first place?

The suggestion that nobody should ever have to worry about endurance while constantly firing powers seems to fly in the face of the whole purpose of keeping track of it. Maybe that's why people don't like the idea.

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It seemed to me, considering how Claws performed, that Defenders suffered inordinately in this regard.

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is where you need to learn the game. The secondary effect of Claws is a reduced endurance cost. Thank you for using completely inappropriate comparisons.

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the subject of these replies is getting pretty bad.

From the main index I started reading "My legs are.." in the latest post section while clicking on archtypes and powers forum, only to finish the sentence with the title of the original post "..opened!" Needless to say, I was worried what kind of forum I had clicked on!

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Nice summery. It goes along with what I had noticed in the thread as well. Much ado about nothing.

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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seemed to me, considering how Claws performed, that Defenders suffered inordinately in this regard.

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is where you need to learn the game. The secondary effect of Claws is a reduced endurance cost. Thank you for using completely inappropriate comparisons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, good lord, go back and read the thread, I already SAID that this wasn't a fair comparison, and was the reason why I used my Shield Scrapper instead.

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