My eyes are opened!
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2009-05-17 17:19 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I put significant slots into my "defenses," that is, PFF is triple slotted, Hover is triple slotted (for manueverablity).
I'll rebuild as suggested and see if it makes a difference, but I'm not optimistic.
Tomorrow, though. My eyes feel like pebbles, darn allergies...
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i have a few questions since Nomad Zero (FF/EB) on Justice will be hitting 12 fairly soon:
When you first posted about fighting mooks on a FF/EB you talked about them capping at 20, but your FF/EB is actually 12? Are you using other enemies to force the character and Mooks to be set to 20, or are they actually at your level of 12?
i need to know before i go past 12. Note that i will not be using your slotting. PFF at 50 is usually left at 1 slot on my alts. However, i have no high level alts on Justice and am just soloing as i level. When i hit 12 i may skip using DO's, but i have no idea why anyone with any intelligence would do that. Still, for purposes of testing i will clear out my inspiration tray before fighting the mooks. i'm interested to see how this goes.
Also, i will not be claiming any veteran rewards to make this fair.
Edit: Took a quick look at the ranged defense for Nomad Zero at level 5 with PFF unslotted: 78%. Soft cap is 45% against even cons. Whyinahell would you add more slots to that?!
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Just going to comment on one thing here, regarding slotting: I frequently forgo any type of slotting until around 17 for level 20 IOs, and usually just for Accuracy/Endurance slotting. I used to not slot anything until 27 or 32 (depending on character) but that became too big of a chore after about level 22 because of mob scaling. It's not impossible, but I really don't recommend this for anyone. I'm stingy with my influence for whatever reason.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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You may have a point regarding the Tanker and KO Blow. It was a while ago, and I hadn't considered who he had been fighting. The more I think on it, the more I think it was Freakshow, so sapping was probably an issue. It's not, however, a lie. It did happen.
Mooks are L5-20, so they spawned at L12 for my L12 Defender.
I don't ususally play Defense oriented sets, so I wasn't aware that there was no need to slot PFF. I was doing so because I was frequently getting killed right through it. If there's no benefit to slotting it, obviously, I won't do it.
I made several characters together, intended to be a group together (boy I wish there was a way to invite and promote your own characters to your own Supergroup). A Tanker, a Scrapper, a Defender and another Scrapper (he's the one with Claws, so we won't consider him since he's considered an unfair comparison). I'll run all three through a test mission and report back.
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Once again. "You *may* have a point". You just can't accept the fact that you're mistaken, can you? You use examples that aren't possible outside of certain specific situations, then you remove the situation, and use the example to try to prove a point that it doesn't prove. This is why no one can take your claims seriously -- you insist on supporting your arguments with lies of omission, or just outright lying period.
You only "ran out of end" because of infrequent sapping from Juicer/Stunner mobs against Freaks? Why am I still skeptical of this? Oh, probably because you would have taken them out fast enough (they're only LT class at best) if you did more than just use KO Blow every 18 seconds. Not to mention that not every spawn has one in it, and you're twisting your data again because you just can't be wrong. You frequently choose tactics that are SELF-DEFEATING. This is not a problem with the game. Rather, it's a problem with your ability.
On the note of your Defender: you had three targets to hit with ET? You realize that three targets is the "magic number" for most AoEs for them to come out ahead when compared to a single target? ET does more damage for less endurance to three targets than Power Bolt will, so again, you chose the wrong tactic. Knocking all of them back instead of just one would have also helped, but then, you'd have to move your character instead of leaving it stuck in a single place to get them all in ET range, and I don't see you wanting to do that.
Not realizing that PFF soft-caps yourself is just ignorance on your part. You can pull up the power info at any point in the game now. I also love how you claimed that you feel you built your character to "solo" and then tell us how you slotted your character defensively, and in a manner that does nothing to help you solo. You don't need faster Hover to solo with, slotting PFF for PvE is laughable, and about the only thing you did "right" was make sure your attacks could land. In short, you wasted slots in places that don't help you solo at all, but claimed it was slotted for solo-ing purposes.
Please, Ultimo. For the sake of your arguments, learn how to play the game you're trying to change.
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I don't know why the case of colic. I mean really. I said the events I described DID happen. I am not lying, and I resent the implication. I admitted that I had neglected to consider the foes I was fighting. Freakshow have sappers, and as I recall, those were the foes I was fighting. Again, it was a while ago, so I could be wrong.
Either way, the fact remains that I was burning through all my endurance using just one attack and my defensive toggles. As noted, this isn't something that happens under usual circumstances, so the circumstances must have been unusual. I say they "may" have a point, because of those unusual conditions. I think it was the Freakshow. I could be wrong.
I was specifically avoiding using the Torrent because of the greater endurance use. At the suggestion of others in the thread, I tried using it more, to mixed results. I found it tended to miss a lot more, but that's after only a short test period. I also found I was out of endurance a lot more, but that might be due to the extra misses. A also found they tended not to get knocked back. Once in a while. Force Bolt is far more reliable.
I also said I haven't played Defense sets extensively. How I would be expected to know about a "soft cap" I'd never been required to consider before is beyond me.
I built him to solo. Not having much offense, I built around the only defense I have, knockback. I do tend toward a more defensive style. That may be why I dislike Blasters so much.
I rebuilt and reslotted to test the characters against an arc I built. It's #189400 "Techwar" if you want to test against it yourselves.
I haven't had a chance to test the Tanker yet. The Scrapper is a L14 Martial Arts/Shield. The Defender is a L13 Force Field/Energy.
Note that the Scrapper in each case is running only the melee toggle, since he's meleeing everyone. It has one endredx in it.
In an early mission, they both encoutnered a group of three trolls, white conn minions. The Defender defeated all three, was at about half health and used about 90% of his endurance to do it. The Scrapper had appalling accuracy, and went through all his endurance, detoggled and was whittled down to about 2/3 health before defeating the final minion.
In a second encounter, they met a boss called Grond and two troll gunners (Yellow, and two whites). Note that Grond had nearly the same health as the Defender, and did about a quarter of his health with every thrown boulder. Melee was out of the question, as the Trolls would have easily crushed the Defender. Using tactics suggested here, I was at about 10% health and had to use PFF and escape, by the time I got the two gunners to half health. I retreated, recovered and tried again using my former tactics (Force Bolt Grond, and pick off the minions). Doing this, I was left with no endurance, and about 1/3 health in defeating the three. Note that they were slightly damaged in this second attempt. The Scrapper fought exactly the same group and was forced to use a green inspiration to survive. He ran out of endurance and detoggled, but did defeat all three foes. I used similar tactics, Cobra Strike Grond, and defeat the minions.
My assessment is that both performed in a comparable fashion. That is, they both had severe endurance issues. It was still no fun waiting around to get endurance back so I could keep playing.
I'll assess the Tanker tomorrow, but having played several Tankers I don't expect it to be any better.
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You may have a point regarding the Tanker and KO Blow. It was a while ago, and I hadn't considered who he had been fighting. The more I think on it, the more I think it was Freakshow, so sapping was probably an issue. It's not, however, a lie. It did happen.
Mooks are L5-20, so they spawned at L12 for my L12 Defender.
I don't ususally play Defense oriented sets, so I wasn't aware that there was no need to slot PFF. I was doing so because I was frequently getting killed right through it. If there's no benefit to slotting it, obviously, I won't do it.
I made several characters together, intended to be a group together (boy I wish there was a way to invite and promote your own characters to your own Supergroup). A Tanker, a Scrapper, a Defender and another Scrapper (he's the one with Claws, so we won't consider him since he's considered an unfair comparison). I'll run all three through a test mission and report back.
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Once again. "You *may* have a point". You just can't accept the fact that you're mistaken, can you? You use examples that aren't possible outside of certain specific situations, then you remove the situation, and use the example to try to prove a point that it doesn't prove. This is why no one can take your claims seriously -- you insist on supporting your arguments with lies of omission, or just outright lying period.
You only "ran out of end" because of infrequent sapping from Juicer/Stunner mobs against Freaks? Why am I still skeptical of this? Oh, probably because you would have taken them out fast enough (they're only LT class at best) if you did more than just use KO Blow every 18 seconds. Not to mention that not every spawn has one in it, and you're twisting your data again because you just can't be wrong. You frequently choose tactics that are SELF-DEFEATING. This is not a problem with the game. Rather, it's a problem with your ability.
On the note of your Defender: you had three targets to hit with ET? You realize that three targets is the "magic number" for most AoEs for them to come out ahead when compared to a single target? ET does more damage for less endurance to three targets than Power Bolt will, so again, you chose the wrong tactic. Knocking all of them back instead of just one would have also helped, but then, you'd have to move your character instead of leaving it stuck in a single place to get them all in ET range, and I don't see you wanting to do that.
Not realizing that PFF soft-caps yourself is just ignorance on your part. You can pull up the power info at any point in the game now. I also love how you claimed that you feel you built your character to "solo" and then tell us how you slotted your character defensively, and in a manner that does nothing to help you solo. You don't need faster Hover to solo with, slotting PFF for PvE is laughable, and about the only thing you did "right" was make sure your attacks could land. In short, you wasted slots in places that don't help you solo at all, but claimed it was slotted for solo-ing purposes.
Please, Ultimo. For the sake of your arguments, learn how to play the game you're trying to change.
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I don't know why the case of colic. I mean really. I said the events I described DID happen. I am not lying, and I resent the implication. I admitted that I had neglected to consider the foes I was fighting. Freakshow have sappers, and as I recall, those were the foes I was fighting. Again, it was a while ago, so I could be wrong.
Either way, the fact remains that I was burning through all my endurance using just one attack and my defensive toggles. As noted, this isn't something that happens under usual circumstances, so the circumstances must have been unusual. I say they "may" have a point, because of those unusual conditions. I think it was the Freakshow. I could be wrong.
I was specifically avoiding using the Torrent because of the greater endurance use. At the suggestion of others in the thread, I tried using it more, to mixed results. I found it tended to miss a lot more, but that's after only a short test period. I also found I was out of endurance a lot more, but that might be due to the extra misses. A also found they tended not to get knocked back. Once in a while. Force Bolt is far more reliable.
I also said I haven't played Defense sets extensively. How I would be expected to know about a "soft cap" I'd never been required to consider before is beyond me.
I built him to solo. Not having much offense, I built around the only defense I have, knockback. I do tend toward a more defensive style. That may be why I dislike Blasters so much.
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The "events" were missing key parts and they were skewed because of your consistently bad tactics and choice of power usage. A lie of omission is still a lie, and frankly, I'm not convinced your little "tests" or in your tanker's case, "evidence" is proof of anything other than your lack of ability. The fact remains, you burned your endurance because you didn't play your character in a manner that would have limited your endurance usage. If you're facing Electric Blast users, why in the world would you insist on taking your sweet time to take them out if you know that they can drain your end with every shot? The answer is because you don't want to do anything else, and doing so only gives you more "ammo" in your arguments. The problem is that that you're firing off your suggestions with an ammo clip full of blanks.
It doesn't matter if "force bolt is more reliable" when you can kill the spawn with less endurance used if you just attacked them instead of spending more endurance keeping one knocked down. Force Bolt costs just as much endurance to use as Power Bolt does, and does significantly less damage (so little damage as to be useless for damage purposes). Using that one power three times is STILL more endurance used than using ET only a single time, and it's doing nothing to help you clear a spawn quicker.
In regards to your "how should I know about the soft-cap" I just have to ask... how long have you been playing? Your reg date suggest since '06, so in three years you have not once heard anything about "No matter how much accuracy you have, there is always a 5% chance to miss" or "No matter how much defense you have, there is always a 5% chance to get hit"?
Really?
Even level foes have a 50% chance to hit you, barring debuffs/buffs on them. 5% taken out of that 50% means that with 45% defense, you've reached the "soft-cap" since any more defense doesn't help you (again, unless they're buffed or you're defense is debuffed). In three years, you have heard nothing even related to this? Do you play in a vacuum? If you do, that would explain how so many of your suggestion changes seem to be based on the idea that only you are ever playing the game.
And no, you didn't build your Defender to solo. At all. The very suggestion that you believe you did is precisely what I'm talking about. You don't understand the game you're playing.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
A defender that has no powers that helps his team is built for teaming? If he's not, then what IS he built for?
Yes, I've played for years. I level slowly, and I've played mainly Tankers and Blasters. I've never played any character with Defense to any appreciable level. I know that they have a 5% chance to hit and miss, but I have no idea how Defense works, because I've never needed to.
As I said, I've tried "just attacking" my foes, and my Defender is quickly overwhelmed by the incoming damage. I'm forced to mitigate it somehow. Force Bolt has been the best choice so far.
There should be no single way to play any character or power set. You seem to suggest that unless I do it this one way, I'm guaranteed to fail. That in itself suggests a problem.
None of this addresses the core concern, which is that characters are running out of endurance far too quickly, and standing around waiting for Rest to recharge, or endurance to come back. Standing around is not fun. The point of playing, and the supposed mantra of the devs is to have fun. Thus, I see a disconnect.
Again, I'm suggesting an improvement in endurance usage for EVERYONE. This isn't (or wasn't) intended to be about Defenders or Tankers specifically, they just happen to suffer more than some others.
I'm frankly not going to address the suggestion that I would lie about my experiences in the game. Think what you will, I really don't care anymore.
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A defender that has no powers that helps his team is built for teaming? If he's not, then what IS he built for?
Yes, I've played for years. I level slowly, and I've played mainly Tankers and Blasters. I've never played any character with Defense to any appreciable level. I know that they have a 5% chance to hit and miss, but I have no idea how Defense works, because I've never needed to.
As I said, I've tried "just attacking" my foes, and my Defender is quickly overwhelmed by the incoming damage. I'm forced to mitigate it somehow. Force Bolt has been the best choice so far.
There should be no single way to play any character or power set. You seem to suggest that unless I do it this one way, I'm guaranteed to fail. That in itself suggests a problem.
None of this addresses the core concern, which is that characters are running out of endurance far too quickly, and standing around waiting for Rest to recharge, or endurance to come back. Standing around is not fun. The point of playing, and the supposed mantra of the devs is to have fun. Thus, I see a disconnect.
Again, I'm suggesting an improvement in endurance usage for EVERYONE. This isn't (or wasn't) intended to be about Defenders or Tankers specifically, they just happen to suffer more than some others.
I'm frankly not going to address the suggestion that I would lie about my experiences in the game. Think what you will, I really don't care anymore.
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I didn't say you were built for teaming. Reading comprehension can be fun. I said you weren't built to solo, but you don't get it. I don't care what powers you took unless these powers specifically get in the way of soloing (ie: ally-only powers). Your reported slotting isn't sitting well with your claim of a "solo build". I mean really, slotted PFF? Slotted Hover? These are not the things to slot if you're trying to slot for solo play at an early level. Hell, I go without slots at those levels and I don't have NEAR the issues you claim to have, and by extension of your own flawed reasoning, are claiming all Defenders or Tankers to have.
I'll repeat: you seem to be the only person having any difficulty at all playing these characters, but the GAME is the problem? You seriously can't see the flaw in this argument, even after it's been pointed out to you so many times? I so wish I could sit at your computer and play your character in front of you to show you how to fail less. Of course, if that were possible, and I did so, you'd likely point out everything I "shouldn't have to do". There isn't "one way to play", but "your way" clearly isn't working, so you need to find a new way.
Unfortunately, Ultimo, your attempts to "get me back on track" aren't going to work specifically because your concern about endurance usage is based ENTIRELY on your ability, or in this case lack thereof, to play your characters. This is the crux of your issue as I see it: you can't play effectively, so rather than try to fix your problems with the tools you have, you instead point at the game and call it flawed. This is why I'm not even addressing your "concerns" -- your premise is horribly flawed and requires fixing first.
Fun is subjective. If fun for you is to stampede without endurance issues, then a game that's played by multiple people across the country simultaneously, where these people can interact together, isn't the type of game for you. These games demand a type of balance across all playable characters simply because people enjoy different types of things. These balances keep everyone from feeling useless compared to the next guy, for the most part. The game, right now, is fairly balanced IMO. There are a few outliers, but this issue that you (and apparently Starsman) seem to think exists is not an issue. You might have more luck in a single-player game, where you can jump right on whoever happens to be the broken character.
You don't have to address that you were lying, because it was plain to everyone that you were. You frequently leave out key circumstances just so you can have an example to bring to the class. If you want to prove something, bring irrefutable evidence to do it. Stop relying on your poor memory and anecdotes that are so horribly skewed as to actually detract from your points. I don't care if it "really happened", it didn't happen as you explained it did, and after it was discovered you were fighting electric blast users, the very tactics that you used defeated yourself.
In short, you don't know how to play. I hate using that, but it's so apt right now and sums up what I want to say perfectly.
EDIT: better introduction
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
Just for fun I made a Invun/SS tank and PLed it up to 41. I slotted 1 lvl 40 end redux in each toggle and 1 in KO blow. I then made a map of just freakshow and hearded up the aggro cap. I put KO blow on auto.
I did not run out of endurance mainly because I was hardly ever getting hit.
Then I changed the map to just Juicers and same result. I hearded them around a corner so they woulld feed into invinc to add def and still did not run out of endurance using just KO blow. Which was slotted btw with 1 acc, 1 end redux, 1 recharge and 3 damage.
My conclusion would have to be that you are either lying or stupid. Which one is it?
Still working on getting Nomad Zero to 13. i only had time to play him a couple hours yesterday. Now, to keep it within some notion of average, or at least what i think should be close to Ultimo's Defender, i'm selling all my drops until i can buy DO's to the stores instead of selling them at WW like i usually do. If i went the normal WW route i'd probably have something near a million inf to outfit myself just by spending a couple minutes each hour putting common salvage on the market. i've also done nothing but solo regular contacts and content, but at 12 i will start using AE and playing a little more like a veteran. i am still not claiming any veteran powers at all, and will be posting my build once i hit 13 and try out the arc Ultimo___ posted. (#189400 "Techwar")
Like Ultimo's it's a "soloing build" that skips the team buffs and takes Hover. Otherwise it's what i would consider a good soloing build.
Edit: Hit 12, will post build and start running tests after i help Smurphy with an experiment of his.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Ok, so I'm "not built for soloing," and I'm "not built for teaming," just what AM I built for? Saying "nothing" will only lead me to point out the failings in THAT concept.
I've already admitted that my slotting might not be optimal, and that I've been reslotting as suggested. However, even at that, I should not be required to build my character in a particular way to be successful.
I'm not the only person having problems with endurance. This is an issue that comes up over and over, and has done for many years now. Again, my play style may not be optimal, but I should not be required to play one particular way.
Fun is subjective, you're correct. Are you telling me you find it fun to stand around for several minutes at a time doing nothing? Many people do not, I'm just one of them. That there have been so many threads on this subject is evidence of that. I've also said that Endurance management should be a challenge. It simply should not be THE challenge. I want to fight the bad guys, not my own powers!
I provided another example, a test in which I ran a Defender and a Scrapper (not Claws) through the same chain of missions. I reported that both performed to about the same level, and that both suffered severe endurance issues. I provided the arc so others could attempt the same test. I did this because I recognized the unreliablity of the former examples. If I were trying to decieve, I would not have done this. You fixate on one admittedly poor example, and ignore everything else.
Being in error is not lying. Lying involves deliberate deception. I have not attempted to deceive, although my example of the Tanker and KO Blow was obviously incomplete and insufficient.
Again, I'll have to postpone the Tanker test, it's my cousin's 50th B-Day, so I have places to be!
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Ok, so I'm "not built for soloing," and I'm "not built for teaming," just what AM I built for? Saying "nothing" will only lead me to point out the failings in THAT concept.
I've already admitted that my slotting might not be optimal, and that I've been reslotting as suggested. However, even at that, I should not be required to build my character in a particular way to be successful.
I'm not the only person having problems with endurance. This is an issue that comes up over and over, and has done for many years now. Again, my play style may not be optimal, but I should not be required to play one particular way.
Fun is subjective, you're correct. Are you telling me you find it fun to stand around for several minutes at a time doing nothing? Many people do not, I'm just one of them. That there have been so many threads on this subject is evidence of that. I've also said that Endurance management should be a challenge. It simply should not be THE challenge. I want to fight the bad guys, not my own powers!
I provided another example, a test in which I ran a Defender and a Scrapper (not Claws) through the same chain of missions. I reported that both performed to about the same level, and that both suffered severe endurance issues. I provided the arc so others could attempt the same test. I did this because I recognized the unreliablity of the former examples. If I were trying to decieve, I would not have done this. You fixate on one admittedly poor example, and ignore everything else.
Being in error is not lying. Lying involves deliberate deception. I have not attempted to deceive, although my example of the Tanker and KO Blow was obviously incomplete and insufficient.
Again, I'll have to postpone the Tanker test, it's my cousin's 50th B-Day, so I have places to be!
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And I already told you that I take every one of my characters above and beyond that level without putting a single enhancement in and I do just fine. Clearly you're doing something wrong, and I'm going to bet it's your in-battle tactics. Your slotting and power choices are pretty atrocious, but it's your inability to play like an intelligent person that's really holding you back.
The thing is, Ultimo, is that you lied without realizing it. You deliberately inflated your claim to prove a point, and you were caught. You even tried to dismiss it by claiming that they only "may" have a point, which means you refuse to accept that you were wrong or that your flawed evidence isn't proof of something. Someone already posted in here about using your exact tactic at level 41 or so to fight Freaks, and they didn't bottom-out of endurance doing so and managed to kill the spawn. Again, I point to your lack of tactical thinking/forethought.
Apparently, your Defender is clearly built for nothing, or it's built for something and you aren't doing that "something" with it. Picking all the right powers doesn't help you if you can't USE them right.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
I've already conceded repeatedly that my example was flawed, and that I can't remember the exact circumstances that led to it. I assume it was the Freaks, but I could be wrong. That is why they "may" have a point.
One cannot lie without realizing it. A lie is a deliberate act. An inadvertant omission would be an ERROR, not a lie. I inflated nothing. What I described happened. The reasons why are evidently unclear, but it did happen. I did not inflate anything. However, because of the inconsistency in this situation, it is a fatally flawed example.
Of course, I've already said this.
The notion of "the right powers" is laughable. If some powers are somehow "wrong" then there's a problem with the design. Not that I've never claimed this. All I have said is that there are problems with the endurance system. It is inconsistent and is not fair to all ATs and power sets.
For your amusement (and suggestions, as I am always open to ideas), I post my Defender. This is the planned build to L50. By that point he'll actually have some serious defenses (71% resistance to smashing and Lethal, and over 30% defense to most everything). It's the journey to that point that remains to be seen. Note that the slotting is not placed by level.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Warpath: Level 50 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Force Field
Secondary Power Set: Energy Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(3), DefBuff-I(3)
Level 1: Power Bolt -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(5), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(7)
Level 2: Force Bolt -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(9)
Level 4: Energy Torrent -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(9), Dmg-I(11), Dmg-I(11), Dmg-I(13)
Level 6: Hover -- Flight-I(A), Flight-I(13), Flight-I(15)
Level 8: Air Superiority -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(15), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(19)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A), Jump-I(46)
Level 12: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(19), DefBuff-I(21), DefBuff-I(21)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A), Flight-I(23), Flight-I(23)
Level 16: Boxing -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(25), Dmg-I(25), Dmg-I(27), Dmg-I(27)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(29), Heal-I(29)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(31), EndMod-I(31)
Level 22: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(31), ResDam-I(33), ResDam-I(33)
Level 24: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(34), DefBuff-I(34)
Level 26: Power Burst -- RechRdx-I(A), Acc-I(34), Acc-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(50)
Level 28: Repulsion Field -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Repulsion Bomb -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(37), Dsrnt-I(37), Dsrnt-I(37), Dsrnt-I(39)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(39), DefBuff-I(39), DefBuff-I(40)
Level 35: Explosive Blast -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(40), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(42), Dmg-I(42)
Level 38: Nova -- RechRdx-I(A), Acc-I(42), Acc-I(43), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(50)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(45), ResDam-I(46), ResDam-I(46)
Level 47: Total Focus -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
I've been considering some swapping of powers around in the 20s, to take the Medicine pool in place of Leadership, or some such. I'd also been thinking about swapping the Repulsion Field for Force Bubble since I'm not sure what the difference is.
One other thing I should mention. This is something of a concept build. It's my latest attempt to make a character based on Iron Man. That said, it still has to be functional. In all honesty, with the exception of the endurance issues, it's been pretty close to what I've been after.
(actually, if you look at the old Tales of Suspense and Avengers comics, Iron Man was always retreating to recharge... Kind of ironic, eh?)
Please stop posting suggestion or criticism threads until you read some (many) guides. Feel free to ask many questions.
Or just learn to accept that you are wrong.
| Issue 9 Fly poses | IO's and ED
| Cycling the Combat Monitor | Load Macros from a Text File |
Righto, not using Mids' to set him up right now, but this is Nomad Zero on Justice:
Right now all enhancers are 15 DO's, basically minimal slotting.
Power, # of slots, enhance
PFF, 1, nothing
Force Bolt, 2, 1 acc
Dispersion Bubble, 1, 1 end
Power Bolt, 4, 1 acc, 1 end
Power Blast, 5, 1 acc, 1 end
Power Burst, 3, 1 acc, 1 end
Swift, 1, 1 flight
Hover, 1, 1 flight
Now starting "Techwar".
(Incidentally, very well written text so far.)
Edit 1: Took down 6 mooks while running Dispersion Bubble before i needed to rest.
Edit 2: Took down remaining 3 in a bit under 2 minutes, exited mission.
Edit 3: Onto the caves. So far taken down 3 Gardvords, 2 Buckshots and 1 gunner. All yellow or orange. Would be going faster, but chatter in globals distracting me. 
Edit 4: Stupid Gardvords keep rabbiting after finding they can't close to melee. Tired of chasing them all over the caves. Dropped Dispersion Bubble so i can spam Force Bolt to slow them down. 
Edit 5: Down to Supatroll Grond (doesn't look much like the Champions Grond) and his two Gunners. Everything else dropped like Paris Hilton's undies. Going back to finish them off. (Urge to pop insp hard to resist even with tray hidden.)
Edit 6: Grond of course ran like a little girl after getting knocked around a bit. Had to chase him all over to finish. Overall finding FF/EB a lot more fun than i expected.
Edit 7: Used the 110 tickets from running the arc so far to add 1 damage to each attack. So far enjoying the arc itself quite a bit. Things are moving at a good pace. i'd be going much faster if i hadn't crippled my funds by selling all drops to the stores. After this starting a new post. (Should be 13 by then.)
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
First, don't tell me what to post. As I said before, I'll post what I like.
Second, the thread wasn't originally about Defenders or Tankers, or indeed, any specific AT. It just kind of went that way.
Third, it should not be required to read a guide to be able to have success in the game.
[ QUOTE ]
First, don't tell me what to post. As I said before, I'll post what I like.
Second, the thread wasn't originally about Defenders or Tankers, or indeed, any specific AT. It just kind of went that way.
Third, it should not be required to read a guide to be able to have success in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
But you should be knowlegeable if you are going to make some of the claims that you do. Many people ask questions when they have trouble with the game. Some people say that things should be changed because of their perceptions. The main difference is that most of those people are able to accept when their perceptions are the problem and not the game.
Are there things in this that could be improved? Sure. In this instance, the problem is not really the game. You are unwilling to accept what seems to be the more likely problem, and you have said as much several times.
I did not "tell" you what to post. The word "please" is usually used when making a request.
Edit to add: Also, other people see posts like these and think there is a real problem with the game when, at least in this instance, the problem is the player. That is the main reason why I suggest you read some guides. I would say that, then, people might take you seriously, but, apparently, too many people have already given you too much credence.
| Issue 9 Fly poses | IO's and ED
| Cycling the Combat Monitor | Load Macros from a Text File |
So, cleared out Moss by flying over the EB's and taking out his group. Took out any enemies on the way to Moss, a mixed bag of factions.
Then on to the Russkies. Not much of a problem, but skipped most of them and went after objectives. (With DB, PFF and Hover i have 87.5% defense. First mission i went AFK to post and came back to see that some Mooks had been pounding away for a while without any effect. 
)
Now turning in tickets and inf to add a few more enhancers to Nomad Zero at 13.
So far so good, but for the final boss i think i'll use inspirations, because i think they'll be needed to solo an EB with a minimally slotted level 13 FF/EB.
Final edit: Skipped inspirations and brought Technaught along instead. After finally finding the big bad he dropped like stock in Chrysler. No inspirations needed. Overall a rather enjoyable romp.
Conclusion: Ultimo_'s arc was fairly quick and easy to run with a 12-13 FF/EB slotted only with a handful of DO's and no veteran powers or attacks. Other than having to pause 4 times to rest it was just a matter of moving ahead. Playing a FF/EB was more fun than i expected. i've played FF to 50 before, but never really used EB.
i'll continue playing Nomad Zero now and again, but will not claim the veteran attacks. However, i will start selling drops intelligently and using inspirations for AE missions.
[b]Anyway, the point is that at levels 12 to 13 i had no difficulty soloing Ultimo_'s AE arc on a FF/EB without running out of endurance more than once or twice a mission even with Dispersion Bubble running most of the time and using minimal slotting. Of course i dropped an accuracy, damage and endurance reducer in every attack and an endurance reducer in DB, but that's only common sense for soloing. If i'd made minimal use of the market to fund a full set of DO enhancements or used inspirations i probably wouldn't have needed to rest at all...
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
[ QUOTE ]
it should not be required to read a guide to be able to have success in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
It isn't. You just appear to be a special case.
Glad you enjoyed the arc. If you have any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them (I've been considering replacing the Russian troops with something a little less culturally specific, say Arachnos, partly to avoid offending anyone, partly to get away from the datedness of them, and partly because custom critters tend to chew up PCs with excessive ease). I used the same tactic of avoiding them where possible. My Scrapper didn't have that luxury, heh.
Your experience was fairly similar to my own, it seems. I ran out of endurance a bit more often, from the sound of it, but that might easily be accounted for by differences in accuracy (ie luck). Heck, I got nailed by Lord Dire with Cinders as I was trying to fly past him with PFF and DB running (incidentally, I was under the impression that defensive toggles don't drop when held, but as soon as Dire held me, I got hit by EVERYTHING - though the powers didn't detoggle, the effects were lost). I think he had about a 6% chance to hit me and he pulled it off!
To Grumble, my apologies, I may have responded with a bit more bite than intended. In my defense, I've been told to stop posting so often that it gets under my skin rather quickly now.
However, I stand by my assertion that endurance issues are present. If you don't credit my examples, there's still the numerous threads discussing the issue that have appeared over the years. If there was no problem, there wouldn't be so many threads.
Oh, I thought I'd mention, I did solo the final boss (who is actually an AV that scales down) with the Defender, without use of inspirations. It took a while, but by using my old tactic of Force Bolt and Power Bolts, I eventually whittled him down.
I suspect if he actually USED his FLIGHT, it might have been different.
Has anyone else noticed that NPCs with Fly refuse to fly (and usually run away instead)?
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone else noticed that NPCs with Fly refuse to fly (and usually run away instead?
[/ QUOTE ]
Custom critters have a tendancy to lose flight or their secondary depending on their level.
[ QUOTE ]
To Grumble, my apologies, I may have responded with a bit more bite than intended. In my defense, I've been told to stop posting so often that it gets under my skin rather quickly now.
However, I stand by my assertion that endurance issues are present. If you don't credit my examples, there's still the numerous threads discussing the issue that have appeared over the years. If there was no problem, there wouldn't be so many threads.
[/ QUOTE ]
Many people have also posted that they play the game just fine without using Stamina so that should be sufficient counter to your support if that's the way you want to look at it. I find them hard to believe, myself, but that is only my perspective. I actually think there are problems with the way Endurance works in the game, but that is not the implications of your posts.
It's seems obvious that you have a very limited knowledge of at least this aspect of the game, which is why I strongly suggest that, if you want to have any useful discussions, you should read some guides. Just about every post of yours in this thread points to that.
But you indicate it is not your responsibility to become knowledgeable about a subject that you want to discuss so there's no reason to continue this.
| Issue 9 Fly poses | IO's and ED
| Cycling the Combat Monitor | Load Macros from a Text File |
Ah, that makes sense! L14 for flight, and the characters aren't L14 yet! Hadn't thought of that.
Grumble:
I have played the game for years, and I've played every AT to at least L20. I've not played all the power sets, but I have a pretty broad experience of the game. I have a good sense of how endurance works in the game, and the failings therin.
The people that say Stamina is not necessary are almost always saying this in response to threads like this one, that suggest there's a problem, and it's usually the same small group of people (as opposed to the people complaining, which is far more diverse). You're putting the cart before the horse.
(btw, it would have been polite to acknowledge that I made an apology)
[ QUOTE ]
Glad you enjoyed the arc. If you have any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them (I've been considering replacing the Russian troops with something a little less culturally specific, say Arachnos, partly to avoid offending anyone, partly to get away from the datedness of them, and partly because custom critters tend to chew up PCs with excessive ease). I used the same tactic of avoiding them where possible. My Scrapper didn't have that luxury, heh.
[/ QUOTE ]
i rather liked the Russian troops. Considering how antagonistic and aggressive the Russian government has been lately they're not illogical.
[ QUOTE ]
Your experience was fairly similar to my own, it seems. I ran out of endurance a bit more often, from the sound of it, but that might easily be accounted for by differences in accuracy (ie luck).
[/ QUOTE ] Quite possibly, but i thought earlier in the thread you'd posted:[ QUOTE ]
I made a mission on the MA (it's the first of what will be an arc). This mission pits the character against Mooks. They're a group that falls below L20. The mission objective is to defeat a boss. All aspects of the mission are set to minimum difficulty. The character is playing on Heroic.
It took my Defender (FF/EB) 3 and a half hours to do this mission. It took my Scrapper (Claws/Regen) 15 minutes.
The reason? The typical spawn was three minions (all yellow - for some reason the MA insists on never using white conn foes). The Defender would go in, constantly blast one with Force Bolt to keep him from attacking, then power bolt one of the others while soaking up the attacks of the third. The only toggle running was Hover. I could have run Dispersion Field, but I would run out of endurance in 3 or four attacks.
[/ QUOTE ] So, which is it? i can tell you for a fact that it took more than 3 attacks on average to defeat each enemy, and i went through 3 minion and 3 lt. before pausing a minute or two to rest before taking down the last 3 minions. Active mission time was probably less than 15 minutes. My fights against the trolls, who were almost all +1 to me, went about the same in terms of each enemy taking around a couple minutes to defeat. (Would've been less if they hadn't kept running from me.)
[ QUOTE ]
Heck, I got nailed by Lord Dire with Cinders as I was trying to fly past him with PFF and DB running (incidentally, I was under the impression that defensive toggles don't drop when held, but as soon as Dire held me, I got hit by EVERYTHING - though the powers didn't detoggle, the effects were lost). I think he had about a 6% chance to hit me and he pulled it off!
[/ QUOTE ]
i thought that most holds were too low in mag to get through DB in one application unless custom EB holds are much higher mag than normal. Sleep, however, is not stopped by DB. Also, when mezzed all benefits from defensive toggles are lost except mez resistance and mez protection, so they give no +def or +res until the mez ends.
[ QUOTE ]
However, I stand by my assertion that endurance issues are present. If you don't credit my examples, there's still the numerous threads discussing the issue that have appeared over the years. If there was no problem, there wouldn't be so many threads.
[/ QUOTE ] In an early post you insisted that your FF/EB Defender couldn't take out 3 minions without flatlining your endurance. That it took 3 hours just to fiinish that one mission. Then in your last post you said that you took out 6 minions and 3 lt. in about the same time frame that i did, which wasn't much more than 15 minutes. (Mind you it might've been closer to 20 since i was posting part of the time while several minions flailed at me ineffectually in the entrance.) Sorry, but it can't simultaneously take 15-ish minutes and 3 1/2 hours to solo a single mission. i could delete all my enhancements, but use inspirations, and it would still take me about 15 minutes. Adding just a few endurance reducers in my attacks made endurance a minor limitation, not the crippling problem you claim.
Still, good arc, well written.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Lol going with the JB claim of other people have complained about it so it must be valid.
Well people complain about tanker damage so it must need improving too. Oh and they complain about how brutes do more damage than scrappers with also having more HP so that must be valid too.
People complaining about something does not make it a valid complaint.
Man I really think money is hard to come by in the lower levels. I have read other threads on this same subject so we should get 10 mil handed to us when we start.
[ QUOTE ]
You may have a point regarding the Tanker and KO Blow. It was a while ago, and I hadn't considered who he had been fighting. The more I think on it, the more I think it was Freakshow, so sapping was probably an issue. It's not, however, a lie. It did happen.
Mooks are L5-20, so they spawned at L12 for my L12 Defender.
I don't ususally play Defense oriented sets, so I wasn't aware that there was no need to slot PFF. I was doing so because I was frequently getting killed right through it. If there's no benefit to slotting it, obviously, I won't do it.
I made several characters together, intended to be a group together (boy I wish there was a way to invite and promote your own characters to your own Supergroup). A Tanker, a Scrapper, a Defender and another Scrapper (he's the one with Claws, so we won't consider him since he's considered an unfair comparison). I'll run all three through a test mission and report back.
[/ QUOTE ]
Once again. "You *may* have a point". You just can't accept the fact that you're mistaken, can you? You use examples that aren't possible outside of certain specific situations, then you remove the situation, and use the example to try to prove a point that it doesn't prove. This is why no one can take your claims seriously -- you insist on supporting your arguments with lies of omission, or just outright lying period.
You only "ran out of end" because of infrequent sapping from Juicer/Stunner mobs against Freaks? Why am I still skeptical of this? Oh, probably because you would have taken them out fast enough (they're only LT class at best) if you did more than just use KO Blow every 18 seconds. Not to mention that not every spawn has one in it, and you're twisting your data again because you just can't be wrong. You frequently choose tactics that are SELF-DEFEATING. This is not a problem with the game. Rather, it's a problem with your ability.
On the note of your Defender: you had three targets to hit with ET? You realize that three targets is the "magic number" for most AoEs for them to come out ahead when compared to a single target? ET does more damage for less endurance to three targets than Power Bolt will, so again, you chose the wrong tactic. Knocking all of them back instead of just one would have also helped, but then, you'd have to move your character instead of leaving it stuck in a single place to get them all in ET range, and I don't see you wanting to do that.
Not realizing that PFF soft-caps yourself is just ignorance on your part. You can pull up the power info at any point in the game now. I also love how you claimed that you feel you built your character to "solo" and then tell us how you slotted your character defensively, and in a manner that does nothing to help you solo. You don't need faster Hover to solo with, slotting PFF for PvE is laughable, and about the only thing you did "right" was make sure your attacks could land. In short, you wasted slots in places that don't help you solo at all, but claimed it was slotted for solo-ing purposes.
Please, Ultimo. For the sake of your arguments, learn how to play the game you're trying to change.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage